Forum:Halo 4 discussion/Archive
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Since Halo 4 is around the corner, I guess it is fitting to have a formal discussion page for things related to the game. Feel free to share your opinion/criticism about the game!
Have fun discussing about the game! — subtank 04:50, 27 September 2012 (EDT)
About the weapon sandbox
Still finding it odd (and disappointed) that the Forerunners, more specifically the Prometheans, use such archaic weapon designs considering that they are described being so advanced in the Bear's Forerunner Trilogy. Was expecting something like the Republic Commando's DC-17m blaster that can be configured to three different weapon setups.— subtank 04:50, 27 September 2012 (EDT)
- Yeah, indeed. Weak weapon strength also seems off. If you're going to use light as a weapon, why use hard light bullets when it'd be cheaper to use lasers? But hey, that's been as far as Halo 2 when they gave Enforcers a shield that only covers part of their body.
- While I'm unsure as to how 4's plot will turn out (though I expect to be alright), I'm more excited for Forward Unto Dawn. The Halo movie has finally come! Take that, Harvey Weinstein! Tuckerscreator(stalk) 11:27, 27 September 2012 (EDT)
- I guess it has something to do with 343i wanting the weapons to look "familar" and function similarily, which explains why the Lightrifle performs like the BR & DMR in one. However this causes some redundancy; 4 different weapons that essentially function the same. It may also have something to do with balancing. Nonetheless I do like the way they sound and "form" in the player's hands. Also I love the ARC-920, Sticky Detonator, & SAW, and how we have both the BR and DMR in the game. Really spices up the gameplay. Although one of my wishes wasn't fullfilled...a UNSC energy weapon other than the Spartan Laser. :(--Killamint [Comm|Files] 12:45, 27 September 2012 (EDT)
- To be honest, I think I'm more hyped for the FuD than the game itself! But about Halo 4, I really hope they bring back Arbiter. At least a honorable mention. Something like "I thought the Arbiter resolved the conflict" would be nice. Also, anyone else find it interesting that the Storm uses a color scheme of both the Brutes and Elites (purple + green)? I think gameplay will be something really new and foreign to me, considering that the Promethean weapons having different firing modes and . The fact that Promethean weapons resemble human weapons is somewhat weird and disappointing to me. We never had a human counterpart of the Sentinel beam, and I think that's one thing 343i didn't do right: Forerunner weapons should be less "human". —S331 (COM • Mission Log • Profile) 12:52, 27 September 2012 (EDT)
- @Killamint: The direction for the weapon design is not focused; they are more of "How can we make a shotgun futuristic and sci-fi?" (as stated in the latest dev-podcast) than "How can we nail down this ancient alien close-quarter weapon?". The latter is more of how Bungie normally approach things: For example, when asked to Marty for a music sample for the Halo announcement at Macworld 1999, they simply wanted "an ancient, epic alien" feel). I am worried about the franchise... too many similar gameplay elements.
- This is out of topic but a fun read: click! — subtank 13:11, 27 September 2012 (EDT)
Not sure how the weapons seem "human", but I guess that's your opinion. As for the change in multiplayer, I am excited for the change, as multiplayer hasn't had much change over the years. I think it will be a nice refresher to multiplayer.--Spartacus, Halopedia Administrator Talk 13:21, 27 September 2012 (EDT)
- Not sure how to word it out correctly but I think what Killamint meant was the using the Forerunner weapons feel more human, albeit more futuristic/sci-fi ish, than being Forerunner weapons. Prior to Halo 4, most would imagine the weapons would be alien to them based on what they read and saw throughout the Halo franchise (like me for example, hoping for a one weapon configurable into various roles since they use one source of energy/ammunition).— subtank 13:29, 27 September 2012 (EDT)
- Yup, you nailed it. Familar meaning "Human-like" (adaptable), both in function and aesthetics. The Scattershot is essentially a shotgun, both in looks & function (including the reticule & reload action). I like it but I was hoping for something more unique that, like S331 said, was alien & not familar, but still adaptable. However the weapons do resemble Forerunner design to a degree w/ those sharp angles and whatnot.--Killamint [Comm|Files] 16:58, 27 September 2012 (EDT)
- Yep, I was hoping that weapon we saw in Origins would appear for the sake of continuity, but I guess 343i didn't want to add a weapon that operates like the Power Rangers. @Spartacus: Forerunner weapons operate like human weapons (what's the difference between the AR and Suppressor other than different clip size?), hence the term "human". @Subtank: It does worry me about the gameplay. They included grenade indicator, different weapons that operate in the same way (I miss the good old days with the Sentinel beam), sprint part of gameplay. Next thing you know, we are gonna get the annoying bloody screens, and that would suck. —S331 (COM • Mission Log • Profile) 04:45, 28 September 2012 (EDT)
- Another factor to consider is that the Forerunners were so advanced that they would routinely alter their very shapes to better perform the many tasks required by their Rates. Therefore, it makes sense that the tools (and weapons) they used would be equally capable of adapting themselves to the user. Based on what we've seen in the videos, it seems logical to me that a Scattershot would have looked a lot different in the hands of a Builder than it did in the hands of a Promethean or other Warrior-Servant... Therefore it's not altogether surprising to me that, in the hands of a human, it would configure itself into a shape more familiar to us... It's just doing what it was designed to do. How hard could that be for a race that considered moving stars around to be a routine activity? In the hands of a Forerunner, it probably wouldn't have had limited ammo, because it would have integrated itself directly into their Combat Skin, but we're not advanced enough to ceate a sufficiently powerful source of energy on the fly, so it makes sense that the weapon would self-assemble some sort of limited-use capacitor when it detects no available power supply to tap into. As for the weapon in Origins, if you squint real hard and suspend disbelief a little, you can imagine that the Boltshot might look like that in the hands of a Forerunner... Maybe...? DJenser 09:20, 28 September 2012 (EDT)
- Nitpicker alert: Spartan331, ARs do not use clips. SmokeSound off! 19:13, 1 October 2012 (EDT)
- If what you say is true than why do the Promethean weapons look and perform the same when in the hands of a Knight? @S331: I do see what you mean, too many changes can make the game feel not so original but honestly I don't think 343i will stray that far or they will catch alot of heat. Although I'm fine with the grenade indicator (although it seems unnecessary) & sprint. Regardless of those features, its still gonna require skill to kill (or live). I'm still getting Halo 4 regardless because my primary concern is Campaign and Spartan Ops, I'm more story driven than anything. Wargames comes last for me mainly because its intimidating playing against other people who have more skill than you.--Killamint [Comm|Files] 12:29, 28 September 2012 (EDT)
- They perform the same because the weapon has a basic function regardless of who uses it. The difference lies in how the weapon behaves when grafted to the arm of a Knight or, say, a Forerunner wearing a Combat Skin. Granted, I haven't played War Games or Spartan Ops yet, but I'm pretty sure that Knights don't have reload animations when they use their weapons, because they don't have to reload. The Scattershot is still going to fire a bunch of bouncy projectiles that incinerate, the Suppressor is still going to fire a silly number of hardlight rounds & the Binary Rifle is still going to disintegrate you if it hits the tip of your big toe, but when they're attached to a Knight, they don't run out of ammo. When a player picks it up, it automatically reconfigures itself to allow the same sort of basic function, while making allowance for the obvious limitations of the wielder (ie: no power supply to tap into means that it runs off of its onboard capacitors until they run out, and it configures itself in a manner that will allow these to be replaced/reloaded) DJenser 16:01, 28 September 2012 (EDT)
- The problem is that all AI units in the games do not have any reload animation because they are given bottomless clip. While they do have infinite ammunition, they are programmed to fire their shots at a specific rate to avoid being overpowered. There's a nifty dialogue of allies shouting the need to reload but they don't really do it. This won't change in Halo 4, safe to say. Nice theory but I'm not sure if it holds any water. — subtank 10:33, 29 September 2012 (EDT)
- Sorry, I was attempting to offer an in-game (and, apparently, less cynical) explanation, whereas I now realize that you were looking at it from a strictly gampeplay/mechanics perspective. In that case, you're right: the "advanced" Forerunner weapons have been nerfed all to h311 and back in order to balance gameplay, much like any of the weapons/powers/spells/etc that have been introduced in every other game out there with a multiplayer component. It's a sad fact of the gaming industry that, if there's even the slightest bit of imbalance or an exploit, someone's going to spam it... After all, written into the genes of every living thing on Earth is an evolutionary imperative to take the quickest path to advancement. Besides, speaking from a strictly gameplay/mechanics perspective, if there were a truly advanced Forerunner weapon in the game that could convert itself to a number of other weapons, it would make weapon drops kinda pointless. Situations like that force the designers to compromise between real creativity and balanced play, which I'm sure has frustrated them to no end, going back to the early days of 8-bit Atari... DJenser 12:12, 29 September 2012 (EDT)
- Well, you mentioned "reload animation" which caught my "gameplay" attention. :P
- Your theory on "adaptable configuration" sounds plausible, but surely the Forerunners, being advanced as they are, would include a safe-option (or an off-switch) to prevent the weapon from being used by the enemy (since they are made to fight off the Flood) or any Reclaimers should they become unruly.— subtank 13:01, 29 September 2012 (EDT)
- Touché... I did walk right into that one.
- As to the safety option, this is exactly what I was referring to regarding the tightrope that the designers have to walk between "cool" and "balanced". If they don't allow the players to use the new toys, then "the game sucks because it teases us with stuff we can't have". However, if they allow it in-game in a manner that truly represents the advanced nature of Forerunner tech then "teh g@m3 $uxx0rz cuz the ubern00bs are sp@mmin teh OP gunz"... Their solution is to make the new stuff look different (self-assembly & orange glowy bits), but generally perform at the same level as the rest of the gear. Sure, logic dictates that it should be a LOT more powerful than it is, & it should disintegrate upon the death of its user like the Plasma Sword did in HCE, but they also know that making the multiplayer content unbalanced & holding back the new toys will likely drive down sales, so they must overlook "logic" to a certain extent in order to try and please as many people as possible. Like anything that markets to the public, video game design involves a fair amount of butt-kissing and crow-eating. DJenser 13:57, 29 September 2012 (EDT)
- Sorry, I was attempting to offer an in-game (and, apparently, less cynical) explanation, whereas I now realize that you were looking at it from a strictly gampeplay/mechanics perspective. In that case, you're right: the "advanced" Forerunner weapons have been nerfed all to h311 and back in order to balance gameplay, much like any of the weapons/powers/spells/etc that have been introduced in every other game out there with a multiplayer component. It's a sad fact of the gaming industry that, if there's even the slightest bit of imbalance or an exploit, someone's going to spam it... After all, written into the genes of every living thing on Earth is an evolutionary imperative to take the quickest path to advancement. Besides, speaking from a strictly gameplay/mechanics perspective, if there were a truly advanced Forerunner weapon in the game that could convert itself to a number of other weapons, it would make weapon drops kinda pointless. Situations like that force the designers to compromise between real creativity and balanced play, which I'm sure has frustrated them to no end, going back to the early days of 8-bit Atari... DJenser 12:12, 29 September 2012 (EDT)
- The problem is that all AI units in the games do not have any reload animation because they are given bottomless clip. While they do have infinite ammunition, they are programmed to fire their shots at a specific rate to avoid being overpowered. There's a nifty dialogue of allies shouting the need to reload but they don't really do it. This won't change in Halo 4, safe to say. Nice theory but I'm not sure if it holds any water. — subtank 10:33, 29 September 2012 (EDT)
- They perform the same because the weapon has a basic function regardless of who uses it. The difference lies in how the weapon behaves when grafted to the arm of a Knight or, say, a Forerunner wearing a Combat Skin. Granted, I haven't played War Games or Spartan Ops yet, but I'm pretty sure that Knights don't have reload animations when they use their weapons, because they don't have to reload. The Scattershot is still going to fire a bunch of bouncy projectiles that incinerate, the Suppressor is still going to fire a silly number of hardlight rounds & the Binary Rifle is still going to disintegrate you if it hits the tip of your big toe, but when they're attached to a Knight, they don't run out of ammo. When a player picks it up, it automatically reconfigures itself to allow the same sort of basic function, while making allowance for the obvious limitations of the wielder (ie: no power supply to tap into means that it runs off of its onboard capacitors until they run out, and it configures itself in a manner that will allow these to be replaced/reloaded) DJenser 16:01, 28 September 2012 (EDT)
- If what you say is true than why do the Promethean weapons look and perform the same when in the hands of a Knight? @S331: I do see what you mean, too many changes can make the game feel not so original but honestly I don't think 343i will stray that far or they will catch alot of heat. Although I'm fine with the grenade indicator (although it seems unnecessary) & sprint. Regardless of those features, its still gonna require skill to kill (or live). I'm still getting Halo 4 regardless because my primary concern is Campaign and Spartan Ops, I'm more story driven than anything. Wargames comes last for me mainly because its intimidating playing against other people who have more skill than you.--Killamint [Comm|Files] 12:29, 28 September 2012 (EDT)
- @S331 Different weapons that operate the same way aren't only found in CoD, but in a lot of other competitive games, like Counter Strike. Why does everybody compare everything to CoD these days? Also, the grenade indicator is incredibly useful when used with the thruster pack (don't diss it just because it's similar to something in CoD...), and sprint makes the game much more dynamic (and is actually balanced this time around since you can't just get away while getting shot). 92.84.48.50 12:35, 28 September 2012 (EDT)
- No one mentioned about CoD or even compared anything to it specifically. :/ — subtank 10:33, 29 September 2012 (EDT)
- I quote "They included grenade indicator, different weapons that operate in the same way (I miss the good old days with the Sentinel beam), sprint part of gameplay. Next thing you know, we are gonna get the annoying bloody screens, and that would suck." So yeah, he did mention CoD...92.84.44.25 13:19, 29 September 2012 (EDT)
- You obviously missed the picture Subtank linked to. —S331 (COM • Mission Log • Profile) 13:29, 1 October 2012 (EDT)
- Gotta love that strawberry jam filter. --KillerCRS 18:52, 1 October 2012 (EDT)
- You obviously missed the picture Subtank linked to. —S331 (COM • Mission Log • Profile) 13:29, 1 October 2012 (EDT)
- I quote "They included grenade indicator, different weapons that operate in the same way (I miss the good old days with the Sentinel beam), sprint part of gameplay. Next thing you know, we are gonna get the annoying bloody screens, and that would suck." So yeah, he did mention CoD...92.84.44.25 13:19, 29 September 2012 (EDT)
- No one mentioned about CoD or even compared anything to it specifically. :/ — subtank 10:33, 29 September 2012 (EDT)
- Yep, I was hoping that weapon we saw in Origins would appear for the sake of continuity, but I guess 343i didn't want to add a weapon that operates like the Power Rangers. @Spartacus: Forerunner weapons operate like human weapons (what's the difference between the AR and Suppressor other than different clip size?), hence the term "human". @Subtank: It does worry me about the gameplay. They included grenade indicator, different weapons that operate in the same way (I miss the good old days with the Sentinel beam), sprint part of gameplay. Next thing you know, we are gonna get the annoying bloody screens, and that would suck. —S331 (COM • Mission Log • Profile) 04:45, 28 September 2012 (EDT)
- Yup, you nailed it. Familar meaning "Human-like" (adaptable), both in function and aesthetics. The Scattershot is essentially a shotgun, both in looks & function (including the reticule & reload action). I like it but I was hoping for something more unique that, like S331 said, was alien & not familar, but still adaptable. However the weapons do resemble Forerunner design to a degree w/ those sharp angles and whatnot.--Killamint [Comm|Files] 16:58, 27 September 2012 (EDT)
Subtank: Not necessarily. The cheat "bottomless clip" would mean that they never reload. I'm not sure about later games, but I know the Marines did reload their weapons in Combat Evolved. If they had an energy weapon of some sort, then no, you wouldn't see a reload animation; technically speaking, they are not firing magazine-fed weapons. They do, however, have infinite ammo; otherwise, you could simply get behind cover, let them expend all of their ammunition trying to shoot at you, and then move out and kill them with little to no resistance. SmokeSound off! 19:13, 1 October 2012 (EDT)
- Just checked out Combat Evolved and you're right. Will try to check out this in Halo 2 but I can say for sure that "bottomless clip" is used for all AIs in Halo 3 and Reach.— subtank 12:20, 3 October 2012 (EDT)
- I know the Spartan IIIs in Reach definitely have bottomless clip. Jun fires that sniper rifle like a madman. --KillerCRS 12:29, 3 October 2012 (EDT)
This is probably wrong but maybe the Promethean weapons are so weak has something to do w/ the stuff being on it's own for so long. Have you ever read "The City of Ember"? It'd be kinda like the generator in that. They can patch it up, but they don't know how to fix it, but they don't know how to completely fix it, so over time it languishes. In this scenario, for some reason the AI that run Reqium only have rudimentary knowledge of the weaponry. This would be a hard thing for the Forerunners to miss, but hey, they've been known to miss things do to being otherwise occupied. (I don't know how to link crap yet so I'll just say it: sheild worlds for missing things, and forerunner flood war for otherwise occupied.) Who knows, it's plausible. This is craZboy557, signing off. 18:58, 8 November 2012 (EST)
This is unrelated to anything, but is anyone amused by the initials of the boltshot if you split apart the compound words? heheheh. This is craZboy557, signing off. 09:13, 8 December 2012 (EST)
Vehicles
The Mantis is one very interesting addition to the sandbox that kinda changes gameplay, at least for that segment of the campaign. It will be fun to annihilate everything in your path and stomp your enemies. But seriously, I can't wait to see it in action. I also hope the Mammoth is drivable. But I'm still waiting to see what else 343i has in store for us. I'm sure there's a Forerunner vehicle waiting to be revealed.--Killamint [Comm|Files] 16:58, 27 September 2012 (EDT)
- Saw some Ragnorak (Valhalla remake) gameplay. Apparently, the Mantis is also a multiplayer vehicle. Dammit Frankie, stop telling us lies! Missing Mandible 19:52, 27 September 2012 (EDT)