Talk:Thel 'Vadam/Archive

Massive plot hole

The Package and the Cole Protocol take place in the same year, 2535. That makes no sense. How could he be both a Major and a Zealot Shipmaster in the same year? And just as importantly, how has no one else noticed this?

I agree. Also, Majors are GROUND FORCES. Shipmasters are NAVAL FORCES. Logically, Thel would be Field Master (if he were the Major from The Package, which he isn't, because he was AT THE RUBBLE AT THE TIME.) I don't understand why people say he is. They give you a 'link' that they say proves Bungie it, but it leads to his talk-page, but nowhere does it state that he is the same person. Anywhere. Why? Because the Major is a different person. That Major was dishonored. Thel led a live of honor and distinction up until the Alpha Halo incident. NOT THE SAME PERSON.

Maybe The Package was toward the beginning of that year and The Cole Protocol was toward the end of it? Also, Frankie hinted that the Shipmaster in the ep getting in trouble for his actions (losing the package, blowing up one of his own ships and stuttling half of another, running away from the fight at the first opportunity by jumping to slipspace and denying Thel (the major) the honor of killing MC). This would open the door wide for Thel to be promoted: after all he almost killed a 'demon' single handedly...and would have if the Shipmaster hadn't interferred. Zeno 'Ribal 15:59, March 22, 2010 (UTC)

It's still odd since it's mentioned in TCP that one of the Gray Team Spartans (don't remember who right now) was the very first Spartan Thel fought, since he was all surprised to see a human put up a fight and all. Guess that's another retcon, much like John's "first" encounter with an Elite on Station Gamma in Fall of Reach. Still surprising they'd just ignore that part in TCP deliberately - it's more likely they overlooked it. The Package feels oddly anachronistic in a lot of ways. --Jugus (Talk | Contribs) 16:16, March 22, 2010 (UTC)

Aye, that's the only thing that really bugs me about the ep: the retconing of Thel's first 'encounter' with the Spartans. That book hasn't been out a year and a part of it has been retconned already.... Zeno 'Ribal 16:49, March 22, 2010 (UTC)

Because Halo Legends is an abomination and likes to throw Halo canon out of 12 story windows. It also like to kick puppies and beat small children and elderly people.--Zervziel 05:44, March 22, 2010 (UTC)

Shut up, it's canon and that's it. Get over it. - Halo-343 (Talk) (Contribs) (Edits) 18:22, March 22, 2010 (UTC)

Why don't you shutup you idiot. This is BS. I understand that all Wikis loves to follow canon to a T, but that doesn't mean people aren't allow to call things out for the shit that they are. Jesus Christ, people just don't know how to handle their own IPs sometime. Zervziel doesn't need to get over crap. 108.56.164.232 23:57, April 4, 2010 (UTC)

Alright, enough off-topicness. He became a shipmaster, that's a naval rank. So why did the package shipmaster say that he lost an entire battalion? For reasons that keep adding up, I think we simply have to do away with the idea of this major being the same elite as Thel 'Vadam/Schism Arbiter. Subtitles are added in post-production, with little or no consideration for actual canon. It's entirely concievable that the shipmaster's comment that the Major may someday become "arbiter" was taken out of context by whoever put the subtitles in, giving them the belief that he was Thel. Acceptable?Sorryaboutthatchief 01:33, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

Alas, while I like the idea, we simply cannot just arbitrarily decide what's canon and what's not. I personally think the idea of the Fleetmaster being Thel is a far better than the major domo, but if the Package says it's the other way around then it is until someone at Bungie contradicts that. I was hoping Frankie would step up to bat.--Zervziel 14:15, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

Just a point: Halo: The Cole Protocol takes place in 2531. The Package takes place 4 years later in 2535. In 2531 Thel was SHIPMASTER. It wouldnt make sense if he was Major 4 years later, would it? 'March 30th, 2010'

Uh, no. TCP takes place in 2535, it was even confirmed by the author.--Jugus (Talk | Contribs) 16:11, March 30, 2010 (UTC), then

Okay, Jungus. How did he go from being Kaidon, then Shipmaster, then Major? Major is a)Lower than Shipmaster and b) An ARMY rank. Shipmaster is NAVAL. Thel was in the Covenant FLEET, not ARMY. And Thel never lost a BATTALION, as Thel Lodamee did, because he commanded SHIPS, not ground troops. FIELD MASTERS do that. ( Lodamee is the major from The Package, confirmed by Bungie.) Besides, you wouldnt demote a Shipmaster for losing a battalion since they lose ships and troops often.

Draevan13, the newest information states it's not Vadamee after all, but a new Sangheili named Lodamee. Check the new information next time.Tuckerscreator 01:37, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

Bungie

Bungie acknowledges him as Thel 'Vadam in the blog: http://www.bungie.net/News/Blog.aspx?mode=news#cid19079

"Ascendant Justice published a new article examining the origins of Thel 'Vadam, better know to most as The Arbiter."

Event though it was decided on Halopedia that it was him, im just showing some new evidence so that we can be completely sure.

The blog post was about this: http://blog.ascendantjustice.com/thel-page-one/ FishType1 21:01, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Just goes to show that Halopedia is on the cutting edge of canon information. CommanderTony

Supreme Commander Picture

There is a picture of the Supreme Commander in the article from the graphic novel, and it makes evident that this is the Arbiter. Is there proof or confirmation on this? If the Arbiter was set to apBold textpear before the Prophets in the beginning of Halo 2, why would he appear in military armor, instead of his dress-attire?

In the Halo 2 special edition manual, there is a letter from the Supreme Commander of the Fleet of Paticular Justice. The things that he says imply that he is being held responsible for the destruction of Halo, so it's a logical conclusion. Plus, in the intro to Succor, it says that it could perhaps explain why 'Vadumee was acting familar with the Arbiter. --Dragonclaws^(talk) 09:54, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

the arbiter isnt the supreme camander of the ascendant justice hes just a ship master before he becomes the arbiter.its in the books.

Actually, he IS the Supreme Commander. Its in the games. -- Administrator Specops306 - Qur'a 'Morhek ^{Honour Light Your Way!} 01:08, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

And not to mention, at the end of the book you speak of, he's promoted Supreme Commander.

Plot Point

Anyone else think that this line from the Heretic Elite action figure could be relevant to Halo 3? Once more taking up the colors of their homeworld, they must seek allies amongst enemies, and strength from the very Arbiter of their doom. Hubert Cumberdale 19:24, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

What do you think it could mean? -ED 04:36, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

I think it would be a draw. If you read Halo: First Strike the Master Chief fights with (possibly) the Arbiter on the Bridge of the Ascendant Justice. And the MC only won that because the Elite (I said Elite because it may not be the Arbiter so it is easier to generalise) because he slipped on his own helmet and the MC got 2 Marines (Johnson and Locklear) to unload nearly 2 clips of AR ammo into him. And your comment on the Engineers ΜΆŜΤΈŖČΗέÏΣΡΈΤΤΥОΓΓïČëŗ is more about the shield strength than the actual armour itself, as Dr Halsey says in Halo: Fall of Reach that the MJOLNIR shields were an improved version of the shields that the Jackals (and therefore presumably the elites) use. Unsey 16:54 23 August 2007

active cam

Anyone find it weird that the arbiter, one of the highest ranking elites, has only a 6 second active cam. While other covenent memebers, even some grunts, have an indefinate active cam.

As it says in the article, the Arbiter wears ceremonial armor, which is a bit outdated but still necessary because it is a ceremonial tradition. --ED_(talk)^(gaming) 00:53, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, but if every Arbiter dies in the line of service would it not be logical to assume the armor could not be recovered everyItalic text. With every new Arbiter I would think new armor would be needed or old armor repaired either which would provide opportunity to upgrade and improve with the times.

actually after an arbiter dies in the line of service the covenent atack the area where he died then retrieve the armor and repair it.

Umm...no. How would they retrieve Ripa 'Moramee's armor?Papayaking 17:05, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

They didn't. - Lord Hyren 19:54, March 7, 2010 (UTC)

Regarding previous ranks

I think I got the whole rank thing figured out (but I could be way off):

1. His rank at the time of the Battle of Alpha Halo was Supreme Commander.
2. When Halo was destroyed, the higher ups demoted him to Zealot before deciding his fate.
3. "Convicted" of heresy, stripped of his rank completely.
4. Commissioned to Arbiter status.

Any comments? KWSN 05:19, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

I completely agree -Spartan-016 19:00, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

I you are a most wise worrior Kre 'Nunumee 19:34, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Gee, "worrior"? and well, the rank thing is common knowledge ΜΆŜΤΈŖČΗέÏΣΡΈΤΤΥОΓΓïČëŗ 11:16, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Either take the compliment or don't.--Kre 'Nunumee 23:14, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Your fight that has transpired seems strange and utterly pointless. Who replies in such a way???

Nerds like me, who know too much about everything we know. Spartan Andy-012

Involvement in Halo Wars

In a Bungie Weekly Update, Frankie mentioned that there's a side of the Arbiter that hasn't yet been revealed. Graeme Devine claims that Halo Wars will feature a great Bond-villain-style antagonist. Of course, his wording causes nausea to real fans, but; the Arbiter was a zealot while he was in command of the Fleet of Particular Justice; he's made thousands of personal kills. He was adamant about continuing his campaign against the humans in The Heretic. In Halo Wars, the Covenant is at its most "evil", of course, this means at their most savage. Could the future Arbiter have been the soon-to-appear Halo Wars villain? We don't know how long he was the Supreme Commander of the Fleet of Particular Justice, so, isn't it possible? It's not like Mr. Devine would just create an out-of-Covenant-character-villain ,(they're not evil, just mislead), unless he was someone people would definitely be interested in, right? And people would definitely be interested in the Arbiter as a bad guy. --Braidenvl 21:45, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

That is a very good thought, set about 20 yearsback the arbiter is probably fighting the humans, but there is a problem with that theory because alot can change in 20 years. If he is tstill the supreme commander then it would be probable that he could be a covenant ship leader like Captain cutter aboard The Spirit Of Fire. But age is another problem, how old would he be in the Halo Wars era? To young to be a fleet master. Would he even be in the war? Probably, as a lowley rank but that would be fun to fight the arbiter, my faveorite character. What would be cool is to have heros like in Age of Mythology, for the UNSC Master Chief (or some other badass spartan) and the covenant a arbiter (it dosent have to be the Halo 3 arbiter, a diffrent one) -X Gauz x 07:04, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Hmm. I really don't see age as much of a factor, as Sangheili have awesome über-physiques, in addition to two hearts, which, in my opinion, would make Elites quite long-lived by human standards. As for your proposal of AoM-esque heroes, that's a very cool concept, (along-side, let's say, Truth, Rtas, Tartarus, Chief, Johnson, and maybe Cap'n Keyes, although Cutter is already a Navy leader for the UNSC.) Another Arbiter would be cool, too, but many fans would be disappointed by him not being the Arbiter. --Braidenvl 23:47, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

What'd I say!?! An Arbiter in Halo Wars! Yeah! I's not the former, or rather, future Supreme Commander of the Fleet of Particular Justice, but an Arbiter nonetheless! --Braidenvl 18:45, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

I don't see where the logic is here.... Thel was made arbiter in Halo 2 2552..... Halo Wars is 20 or so years before that

i agree i think this is where the other guys head blows up from said logic being in conflict with their own personal opinions on whatever this conversation used to be.

Guess what? ITS A DIFFERENT ARBITER. Look at the line 2 posts above. Thats line is true. Also, **SPOILER** the arbiter in halo wars GETS KILLED. Courtesy of Sgt. Forge. That Arbiter's name was Ripa Moramee.

Supreme Commander Picture

There is a picture of the Supreme Commander in the article from the graphic novel, and it makes evident that this is the Arbiter. Is there proof or confirmation on this? If the Arbiter was set to appear before the Prophets in the beginning of Halo 2, why would he appear in military armor, instead of his dress-attire?

In the Halo 2 special edition manual, there is a letter from the Supreme Commander of the Fleet of Paticular Justice. The things that he says imply that he is being held responsible for the destruction of Halo, so it's a logical conclusion. Plus, in the intro to Succor, it says that it could perhaps explain why 'Vadumee was acting familar with the Arbiter. --Dragonclaws^(talk) 09:54, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Name Discussion

Can we be sure Thel Vadamee is for sure the Arbiter? Sure, he was given the command of a ship in the fleet of Particular Justice, but it never said command of the entire fleet. And to be honest, if you read the book, Thel had a completely different personality.

It's possible, but I am not convinced. If you have more evidence of this, tell me.

-Taco033.

I agree with Taco. While the revelations of The Cole Protocol are exciting to say the least, at this point there is nothing conclusive to confirm this assumption. I think we should rethink sticking a name to the Arbiter so brashly. Elites never appreciated people foolishly throwing names around.

Picaflor 22:11, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

When was his name revealed to be Thel 'vadamee? Omega117 06:43, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Halo: The Cole Protocol --CoH|Councillor]] Specops306 - Kora UserWiki:Specops306|'Morhek]] 06:57, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

But from reading it, I did not find any concrete evidence that it is actually the same character. Such can be inferred, but still, I did not find any concrete evidence that shows that they are the same character. User0^{(contribs)(talk)} 07:04, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Have you finished the book? 1st UserWiki:ONI recon 111|Class]] Cadet ONI recon 111 | File:1227612553 First3.jpg|30px]] 07:39, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Yes. The problem is that I saw this page before I finished it, so I wasn't really looking for anything that proves it. It is very likely that I missed something big. The only thing I saw that might infer that it is the same character is the stuff about the fleet of Particular Justice. User0^{(contribs)(talk)} 21:36, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Yeah I didn't even get the book yet and it's up here,Thel 'Vadam,that just doesn't sound true,I don't belive it. Anyone got some proof?

It's not explicitly stated, however it is strongly implied and it is obvious he is the Arbiter, otherwise why would they include him in the book? Why give him the rank of ship master and put him in the book in the fleet of particular justice? 161.130.147.160 19:33, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

To establish a sense of continuity, using a pre-existing fleet to throw him into?

Having read the book, I didn't see any evidence that Thel and the Arbiter are one and the same.--Hawki 07:28, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Wait, if his last name is now 'Vadam, does t