Editing Talk:Forge World

== Page naming ==

We don't know if it's actually named "Blood Gulch" in the game. The page title should be "Unnamed Blood Gulch Remake".--[[User:FluffyEmoPenguin|<span style="color:black; font-weight:bold; font-family:Comic Sans MS">Fluffy</span><span style="color:gray; font-weight:bold; font-family:Comic Sans MS">Emo</span><span style="color:black; font-weight:bold; font-family:Comic Sans MS">Penguin</span>]] 18:25, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
:I agree with this. As far as I know, there is no definitive source stating it is Blood Gulch. Bungie also renames remakes and "spiritual successors", so there is next to no chance it will retain this name upon final release. [[User talk:XRoadToDawnX|XRoadToDawnX]] 18:32, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
:I agree too. In fact, it looks lot more like coagulation than Blood Gulch, so the Unnamed Blood Gulch remake is better. --[[User:Tiku-Orava|<span style="color:blue">'''Tiku-Orava'''</span>]] 20:26, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
:Any ideas on what it will be called?<br />
as in : blood gulch>coagulation>valhalla>?????

:*Blood mountain
:*Blood valley
:*Asgard<br />I dunno, just some stupid ideas. you people got ideas?[[Special:Contributions/81.141.161.71|81.141.161.71]] 11:11, July 9, 2010 (UTC) (I know these talk pages aren't meant for speculation but they are more organised than the forums XD)
::I'm guessing it would have to be a word that describes the next step in blood transformation after coagulation: "Fibrinolysis". I'm sure everyone will know how to pronounce this word the instant they look at it ;) It might be an ineffective name because it's uncommonly heard of. Maybe "Rigor Mortis" would work, which would be the next step in the post-death process.
::A new idea comes to mind. Since this new Blood Gulch has a more revitalized feel with more foliage and less of a dry desert setting, it could be called "Revitalization". Also, since it is obviously a classic, maybe they will go with something more blunt like "Classic", lol.--[[User:FluffyEmoPenguin|<span style="color:black; font-weight:bold; font-family:Comic Sans MS">Fluffy</span><span style="color:gray; font-weight:bold; font-family:Comic Sans MS">Emo</span><span style="color:black; font-weight:bold; font-family:Comic Sans MS">Penguin</span>]] 00:35, July 10, 2010
::(UTC)
::
::My vote for Blood Gulch 3.0's name is Waystation/ Way Station, like Grif said in the RvB vid on Bungie day. EDIT: Diggin' around, I found a sci-fi novel by the name of "Way Station" exists. Food for thought... [[Special:Contributions/80.222.44.24|80.222.44.24]] 12:29, July 10, 2010 (UTC)
::
::THIS IS CALLED WAYSTATION! SOMEONE CHANGE IT!- aewsome bungieguy
:No. A Weigh Station is a place where they weigh trucks on highways to make sure that they're not so heavy that they screw up the roads. [[Special:Contributions/24.15.196.201|24.15.196.201]] 19:21, July 11, 2010 (UTC)
:perhaps if someone just looked closely through the film, they could see where the map name might have shown up?'''[[User:Kingbirdy|<font color="red">King</font>]][[User talk:Kingbirdy|<font color="black">birdy</font>]]''' 06:19, July 13, 2010 (UTC)
:
:Let's all remember that Halo:Reach takes place before Halo:CE, so this map may not be named as the next step from coagulation, but the step before blood gulch-maybe something on how the blood startd to flow?[[User talk:Navypilot1046|Navypilot1046]] 02:39, July 16, 2010 (UTC)
Why are you guys talking about Blood Gulch in Forge World??
:The article was originally "Unnamed Blood Gulch Remake", where there was speculation about its name. With the announcement of Forge World, it was decided to simply merge the articles under the title of "Forge World". The talk page is a hold over from that. [[User talk:XRoadToDawnX|XRoadToDawnX]] 20:54, July 24, 2010 (UTC)

== A final explanation for the bases! ==

Ever since Halo: CE, the Forerunner objects at each end of the map seem to have served no purpose other than being bases in a gameplay sense. Now I may have the solution to this puzzle. I'd like to note some things first. This remake contains Blood Gulch bases, not Coagulation bases, leading me to believe that it is the same canyon as the original Blood Gulch on Installation 04. Halo: Reach takes place before Halo: CE, so the almost dried river in Halo: Reach could have dried fully in Halo: CE, along with the rest of the canyon. What dried it? I propose that the Forerunner bases are actually some sort of drainage device or some sort of device that could dry the river. Further evidence? Look at the pics of the Halo: Reach Blood Gulch, the bases are placed in the river.--[[User:FluffyEmoPenguin|<span style="color:black; font-weight:bold; font-family:Comic Sans MS">Fluffy</span><span style="color:gray; font-weight:bold; font-family:Comic Sans MS">Emo</span><span style="color:black; font-weight:bold; font-family:Comic Sans MS">Penguin</span>]] 05:41, July 10, 2010 (UTC)

Erm... your thought processes up to "The base is a drain" seem pretty good... if they wanted to drain the river, they could've dug a hole. There are MUCH simpler ways to remove a body of water than constructing highly-advanced bases designed to do so. [[User talk:Echo-77|Echo-77]] 06:21, July 10, 2010 (UTC)

What about if the bases create energy while drying the river? --[[User:Tiku-Orava|<span style="color:blue">'''Tiku-Orava'''</span>]] 09:34, July 10, 2010 (UTC)

:I was thinking that the bases weren't merely put there for the single purpose of draining, because it's true that draining wouldn't require highly-advanced drainage devices (although they aren't as highly-advanced when compared to other Forerunner structures). These bases could be a sort of water-regulation device, draining as well as refilling and regulating the flow of water through the canyon. This would give them a long-term purpose for existing.--[[User:FluffyEmoPenguin|<span style="color:black; font-weight:bold; font-family:Comic Sans MS">Fluffy</span><span style="color:gray; font-weight:bold; font-family:Comic Sans MS">Emo</span><span style="color:black; font-weight:bold; font-family:Comic Sans MS">Penguin</span>]] 15:18, July 10, 2010 (UTC)
::I'm sorry, but it cant be in the same location because there's a freakin' giant lake behind blue base. Also, has anyone noticed that the Halo ring is ''bent?''
:::I know that there are a lot of differences between the two, but it could be a case of simply better graphics. Remember, every location in a Halo game is an artist's representation, so somewhere between Halo: CE's graphical capacity and Halo: Reach's graphical capacity, there were changes that are simply "implied" to have been there in the previous game. It's a hard concept to grasp. <s>As for the Halo ring being bent, it could just be the wide angle effect in the Banshee picture.</s> Actually, never mind, it ''is'' slanted. Maybe they had that in mind if people were to recreate the screenshot from Halo: CE's box cover...wait a sec, maybe this area is the same place where the boxart is set!--[[User:FluffyEmoPenguin|<span style="color:black; font-weight:bold; font-family:Comic Sans MS">Fluffy</span><span style="color:gray; font-weight:bold; font-family:Comic Sans MS">Emo</span><span style="color:black; font-weight:bold; font-family:Comic Sans MS">Penguin</span>]] 21:27, July 11, 2010 (UTC)
:Or, its not on the ring at all... [[Special:Contributions/98.213.50.140|98.213.50.140]] 01:22, July 15, 2010 (UTC)

:I always assumed the original bases were but the tip of a huge iceberg. Remember, Coagulation was supposed to be a later Blood Gulch, with the bases excavated a little, with an underground section. If someone dug further, I daresay a much larger (Valhalla?) structure would be found. The two bases may even be the tips of the same structure. -- [[User:Specops306|<b><font color=indigo>Specops306</font></b>]] [[halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>Qur'a 'Morhek</sup></font></i></u>]] 05:24, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
*gets spade* lets see how big the baces are then-nuke-765

==Location==
The page says that this could possibly be on instalation 4. But it should say Reach. Because every multiplayer map from Halo:Reach is going to be in the campaign. And I don't think the campaign will feature Halo.[[User talk:Toen6|Toen6]] 07:40, July 13, 2010 (UTC)

:What, didn't you see the Halo ring on the background? Last time I checked, Reach didn't have a huge ring in the horizon. As for the story, we'll just have to wait and see. Bungie has stated that the thing about MP maps being pulled from the campaign wasn't "the full story" or something like that. But the map is definitely set on a Halo installation, there's no question of that. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 12:26, July 13, 2010 (UTC)
:That doesn't necessarily mean that all of them will be pulled from campaign. Or who knows? Maybe not all of the story takes place on Reach. Maybe it takes place on an installation too.

== Why the Halo is Slanted ==

I can only think of one reason for the ring being slanted. Its that the map is not located on the Installation at all. I know its not very likely, but that is the only thing that seems possible. Please post your ideas below. --[[User talk:Joem25|Joem25]] 23:51, July 15, 2010 (UTC)

:It could be that the terrain you're on (possibly a whole "continent" on the Halo) is slanted. And it couldn't be on a planet or moon (Basis) if that's what you were thinking. Remember, Burial Mounds was on Basis. This new Blood Gulch looks pretty lively for Basis.--[[User:FluffyEmoPenguin|<span style="color:black; font-weight:bold; font-family:Comic Sans MS">Fluffy</span><span style="color:gray; font-weight:bold; font-family:Comic Sans MS">Emo</span><span style="color:black; font-weight:bold; font-family:Comic Sans MS">Penguin</span>]] 17:10, July 16, 2010 (UTC)

::Good thinking, but I don't think that that is the case. The lower portion of the ring that connects to the terrain that your on is normal, but the upper parts start to bend. That scraps both of our theories. I guess it'll remain a mystery. --[[User talk:Joem25|Joem25]] 20:28, July 16, 2010 (UTC)

:My guess is due to your location on the ring along with perspective, it causes a visual bend in the ring. It actually makes more sense than how it was shown in the past, which makes it seem like you are always walking in the very-most center of the ring itself. Though I could be wrong. [[User talk:XRoadToDawnX|XRoadToDawnX]] 21:39, July 17, 2010 (UTC)

::With that being the case, it wouldn't seem bent or slanted, just off-center. I think the most plausible explanation is that the atmosphere is distorting your view.--[[User:FluffyEmoPenguin|<span style="color:black; font-weight:bold; font-family:Comic Sans MS">Fluffy</span><span style="color:gray; font-weight:bold; font-family:Comic Sans MS">Emo</span><span style="color:black; font-weight:bold; font-family:Comic Sans MS">Penguin</span>]] 01:20, July 19, 2010 (UTC)
:Or Theater mode in Reach lets you tilt the camera. --[[User talk:31stCenturyMatt|31stCenturyMatt]] 03:33, July 23, 2010 (UTC)
::No, because in every picture, and even the ViDoc, the Halo is always slanted. I guess it's just for looks with no canon explanation.--[[User:FluffyEmoPenguin|<span style="color:black; font-weight:bold; font-family:Comic Sans MS">Fluffy</span><span style="color:gray; font-weight:bold; font-family:Comic Sans MS">Emo</span><span style="color:black; font-weight:bold; font-family:Comic Sans MS">Penguin</span>]] 02:59, July 26, 2010 (UTC)
::
::Another reason might be that the area is close to the edge of the halo - the distortion due to scale would make it appear to be slanted.

== Hemorrhage ==
Actually "Unnamed Blood Gulch Remake" ''is'' called "Hemorrhage", which is then one part of "Forge World". --[[User talk:31stCenturyMatt|31stCenturyMatt]] 03:33, July 23, 2010 (UTC)

Source? [[User talk:NarutoROCKS189|NarutoROCKS189]] 05:16, July 23, 2010 (UTC)

:[http://kotaku.com/5594250/halo-reachs-new-firefight-covenant-mode-forge-world-more-debut-at-comic+con Kotaku, paragraph 6]; [http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/110/1107237p1.html IGN, paragraph 3] I only wanted to mention it rather than edit the article myself since I haven't seen Bungie state it themselves anywhere. Thanks. --[[User talk:31stCenturyMatt|31stCenturyMatt]] 05:45, July 23, 2010 (UTC)

It was stated above somewhere that it was on a web-page but the screenshots on B.Net say that they were taken on "Hemorrhage" which is a '''''variant''''' of Forge World just like "The Cage," the Lockout remake, and the Ascension remake (Pinnacle). Bungie has stated that they would ship the game with these variants of the same map aka "Forge World." [[User talk:MoB 5150|MoB 5150]] 05:51, July 23, 2010 (UTC)

:I think I see. So, Hemorrhage is a shipped variant of Forge World, with all the spawns in the canyon and the "you have 10 seconds to turn back" message if you try to fly to any of the other areas. Maybe that and the others you mention should have sections here, with articles named Pinnacle, et al., that redirect to the appropriate section in this article. (???) --[[User talk:31stCenturyMatt|31stCenturyMatt]] 06:05, July 23, 2010 (UTC)

::Possibly, but it also could be just a blank slate or yet another variant of the map. Gotta wait 'til it ships, bud. I'm debating on weather or not we can make new pages. Pros: It was shipped with the game so it's official. Cons: Should we also make a wiki page for every other map variant out there? I think not. This could go either way but as of right now I think it's too early since all we have is the information stated above, a ViDoc, and a few screenshots.--[[User talk:MoB 5150|MoB 5150]] 06:24, July 23, 2010 (UTC)

::::Okie doke. Thanks. Though, once the game ships, if it does include include Bungie-made variants for each area named Hemorrhage and so on, I'd argue for at least sections in this article / redirect articles back to the appropriate section. --[[User talk:31stCenturyMatt|31stCenturyMatt]] 06:40, July 23, 2010 (UTC)

:::Quite redundant to create a page for every variant. Most, if not all, will have ''"copy-paste"'' info... which is why I think Sandtarp should be merged into Sandtrap article.- [[User:-Ascension-|<span style="font-family:Century Gothic; color:#E32636;">Sketch</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:-Ascension-|<span style="font-family:Century Gothic; color:#E32636;">ist</span>]]</sup> 06:29, July 23, 2010 (UTC)

:::: I agree, it would be a waste of time and effort. Just merge and make a new section with all the info. --[[User talk:MoB 5150|MoB 5150]] 06:32, July 23, 2010 (UTC)
:::: Perhaps it would be a waste for now, but once the game ships I think that articles for the bungie varients should exist. Especially for Hemorrhage, being that it will be a popular matchmaking map (judging from how popular the previous iterations of Blood Gulch were). I know that as a long time lurker, I would be confused if I had gone to look up a map varient and had it not appear. With something like Sandtarp, its essentially the same map. Its a similar thing with the maps varients with no sheild doors. These could be in a section in the map. With Hemmorage, Pinacle and The Cage there is a lot more potential in an article - information on the boundarys, tactics, changes bungie makes to the default maps later due to the way people play it that they dont expect etc. -- [[User talk:The Storm 59|The Storm 59]] 07:04, July 29, 2010 (UTC).
::::
:::: Anybody realized that the base placement is has been reversed in the RvB PSA?? -[[Special:Contributions/69.196.132.132|69.196.132.132]] 22:55, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
:::: LOL...really?<font color="green">[[User:Rollersox|Death will follow you]]...</font><font color="blue" size="1">[[User talk:Rollersox|but you can survive]]</font> 20:48, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
:::: I've thought about this, and thanks to gameplay footage off of bungie.net, I've come to realize that the bases are not reversed. I was just looking at it the wrong way. The caves are off to the left of blue base, and the cliff is to the right of blue base, which would be the cliff overlooking the red base from the left. not that any of this matters of course. [[User talk:PsychoSunEnder|PsychoSunEnder]] 02:54, September 11, 2010 (UTC)

== Broken Link ==

The page that is supposed to link to the 'Ghost' (in the list of vehicles on the map) is bringing me to the Chopper. Hopefully someone can fix this, cause I sure can't. [[User talk:UEG Dero AD|UEG Dero AD]] 10:56, July 24, 2010 (UTC)

Fixed [[User:Honor Guard Reborn|<span style="color:Black">DarkbelowHGR</span>]] [[User talk:Honor Guard Reborn|<span style="color:green">CommbandD</span>]] 11:02, July 24, 2010 (UTC)

== New articles for official map variants ==

With all the different variants Bungie is releasing with the map, I think they deserve their own articles as we did so ffor the slight changes for some of the Halo 3 maps (sandtrap/sandtarp). But mostly for the new blood gulch remake Hemmorage. Really needs its own article. --[[User talk:HaloFighter92|HaloFighter92]] 03:52, July 25, 2010 (UTC)

:Learn to read the above discussions. We already said "no articles for variants since they would be copy-pasted info".- [[User:-Ascension-|<span style="font-family:Century Gothic; color:#E32636;">Sketch</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:-Ascension-|<span style="font-family:Century Gothic; color:#E32636;">ist</span>]]</sup> 04:09, July 25, 2010 (UTC)

== Gravity ==

Did anyone else notice that in the ViDoc that the gravity was changing at one point, so that the camera had to actually flip to correct itself. If anybody else noticed maybe it should be added to the article.[[User talk:Fatgunn|Fatgunn]] 03:03, July 26, 2010 (UTC)

I checked the video it happens right at 5:00. Is it possibly an option or a specific item.[[User talk:Fatgunn|Fatgunn]] 03:08, July 26, 2010 (UTC)

--I noticed this too, but my guess is its just an optical illusion. There is a map like it on Foundry thats tilted sideways so you can walk on almost every wall\surface. [[User talk:UEG Dero AD|UEG Dero AD]] 21:17, July 27, 2010 (UTC)

I've played on that map but this is different. When it first shows the clip the you can see corner of what appears to be the default wall. After the spartan jumps the camera shows another corner caused by the default walls. I may be wrong but it appears the spartan was adhering to a wall at a 90 degree angle off the floor. And when he jumps the "adherence" is lost and he falls straight down. I was curious about this because if this is a gameplay option, imagine an infection game where zombies can climb the walls.[[User talk:Fatgunn|Fatgunn]] 00:38, July 28, 2010 (UTC)

-- That would be interesting. But for right now i'm going to vote optical illusion. Although it could be possible. [[User talk:UEG Dero AD|UEG Dero AD]] 21:24, July 28, 2010 (UTC)

I'm going to say no. It is just another illusion map. Ever played Distortion on Foundry? Same principle. To create a gravity-changing function in the game's engine would take phenominal amounts of data.--[[User:FluffyEmoPenguin|<span style="color:black; font-weight:bold; font-family:Comic Sans MS">Fluffy</span><span style="color:gray; font-weight:bold; font-family:Comic Sans MS">Emo</span><span style="color:black; font-weight:bold; font-family:Comic Sans MS">Penguin</span>]] 23:18, July 29, 2010 (UTC)

== Built in map variants ==
Added a section detailing map variants which will be shipping with Halo: Reach. This way information in the description can be moved into sections regarding the maps themselves.

This section DEFINATELY needs some work/more information to be added, but I'm out of time right now. Information needs to be moved from the description to the map sections as mentioned above.
Also, information gained visually from videos could e added - eg which vehicles appear in hemorrhage, locations of bases, etc. -- [[User talk:The Storm 59|The Storm 59]] 09:51, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

== Installation? ==

Has there been any indication as to which installation this takes place on? I'm pretty sure this isnt Installation 4(a or b) or installation 5. <span style="font-family: Halo3 ; Font-size: 135%; color:#800002;">FATGUNN</span> 16:22, July 31, 2010 (UTC)

: How could you possibly be sure it isn't either of those? It could well be any halo instillation. -- [[User talk:The Storm 59|The Storm 59]] 03:27, August 1, 2010 (UTC)

:: I dont think its 5 because theres no sign of flood. 4b wasnt built yet. it could be 4a considering the timeframe.<span style="font-family: Halo3 ; Font-size: 135%; color:#800002;">FATGUNN</span> 22:09, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

::: Instillation 5 had containment set up. Think about the first levels on 5. No flood there either. -- [[User talk:The Storm 59|The Storm 59]] 07:44, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

There is no timeframe for Multiplayer maps. Cold Storage is set tens of thousands of years ago.-- [[User talk:Forerunner|Forerunner]] 23:30, August 10, 2010 (UTC)

:He has a point. --<span style="font-family: Halo3 ; Font-size: 135%; color:#800002;">FATGUNN</span> 00:31, August 11, 2010 (UTC)


::::Based on what we've seen from the other installations' surfaces, it makes sense for it to be either 04 or 05. Since 04 can be considered the "classic" or "original" halo, my vote goes for it. BTW, Cold Storage is in the game's timeframe, not tens of thousands of years ago. Read the Smuggler transmissions more carefully.--[[User:FluffyEmoPenguin|<span style="color:black; font-weight:bold; font-family:Comic Sans MS">Fluffy</span><span style="color:gray; font-weight:bold; font-family:Comic Sans MS">Emo</span><span style="color:black; font-weight:bold; font-family:Comic Sans MS">Penguin</span>]] 20:55, August 11, 2010 (UTC)

:I say 05, because in the vidoc, they say "layout is that of coagulation, but the bases are like bloodgulch", so it is coagulation, just still buried. Although, it might be a completely different ring. --[[User:Honor Guard Reborn|<span style="color:Black">DarkbelowHGR</span>]] [[User talk:Honor Guard Reborn|<span style="color:green">CommbandD</span>]] 23:32, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
::If it were the same canyon as Coagulation, then why isn't it a red rock savanna? It's too different. And I just realized that there is no gas giant near this halo. This might mean that its either something other than 04 or 05, or it's just a completely non-canon place.--[[User:FluffyEmoPenguin|<span style="color:black; font-weight:bold; font-family:Comic Sans MS">Fluffy</span><span style="color:gray; font-weight:bold; font-family:Comic Sans MS">Emo</span><span style="color:black; font-weight:bold; font-family:Comic Sans MS">Penguin</span>]] 23:45, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
::How about this: Bungie didn't even care which instalation it is because this multiplayer map is meant just for Forge and is not cannon. [[User:FatalSnipe117|<span style="color:purple">'''Que'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/FatalSnipe117|<span style="color:red">'''Sera'''</span>]], [[User talk:FatalSnipe117|<span style="color:orange">'''Sera'''</span>]] 00:05, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

::'course it isn't red, SImmons left the water on remember? :P, but it probably is a different installation... --[[User:Honor Guard Reborn|<span style="color:Black">DarkbelowHGR</span>]] [[User talk:Honor Guard Reborn|<span style="color:green">CommbandD</span>]] 00:04, August 12, 2010 (UTC)


::Not to mention the huge holes and geographical changes to the canyon. Not to mention that the map is closer to the edge of the Halo than any other map has been judging from the tilt of the Halo ring. Not to mention that leaving the water on would not change the climate that drastically (I recognise you were joking, but I'm sure someone might take it seriously). Not to mention that there were 5 other Halo rings it could be set on. Not to mention that Alpha Halo and Delta Halo were still quite similar in appearance anyway, and different climates on different parts of the ring could explain why this section is different. Not to mention a million different things which discount any guess as to which ring it might take place on.

::"How about this: Bungie didn't even care which instalation it is because this multiplayer map is meant just for Forge and is not cannon. [[User:FatalSnipe117|<span style="color:purple">'''Que'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/FatalSnipe117|<span style="color:red">'''Sera'''</span>]], [[User talk:FatalSnipe117|<span style="color:orange">'''Sera'''</span>]]" <-- This. QFT -- [[User talk:The Storm 59|The Storm 59]] 04:09, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

== Map Variant Images ==

I feel that the map variants which are not built in maps should be removed from the article as although they are pretty cool and represent what you can do in Forge World, they do not represent maps which will be shipped with the game which is what the corresponding section of the article is refering to. -- [[User talk:The Storm 59|The Storm 59]] 13:27, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

== Objects in Montana ==

I noticed that under the description of Montana it says that the objects shown in the Vidoc will likely be removable. If you pay attention to the video, they say that a "completely" empty version of the map will come on the disc. They also say on the Bungie update that they included no "tree" scenery piece, so I doubt this will be the case. [[User talk:FemixZn|FemixZn]] 02:43, August 10, 2010 (UTC)

:Sounds like plants are non-forgeable.-- [[User talk:Forerunner|Forerun