Talk:C709 Longsword
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Differences
In regards to the C709 and C712 Longswords, are the two variants just variants of the same vehicle in a similar manner to the relationship the M808B and M808C Scorpions have to the Scorpion tank design overall? If so, I'll begin penning the Longsword in for a rehaul in the lines of what we've been doing for stuff like the Pelican and Warthog etc. BaconShelf (talk) 15:49, February 28, 2020 (EST)
- Similar, yeah. The difference is that there is a lot more information that only applies to one model or the other, not to both like what the current Longsword article assumes, and it has become a bit messy and misleading. They are really more like two different aircraft than a simple modification or refinement of a shared frame, like with most other vehicles in a similar situation. ERROR 343: Requested database has been Severed 18:38, February 28, 2020 (EST)
CE vs CEA
At this current time. The CEA version is designated as the C709. The og CE model is currently a unspecified model "if" it is still canon, currently there is zero canonical depictions of the CE one outside of media that has since been replaced, while the CEA model has since taken the C709 place.-CIA391 (talk) 11:53, August 30, 2021 (EDT)
Does this even exist anymore?
Yep, I'm asking about that. Campaign Evolved has fully replaced this Bomber with a smaller one man fighter model. Are both canon? Is Campaign Evolved an alternate reality that's like 98% the same? How is this treated?
This question sort of extends to other aspects of Combat Evolved plus Anniversary that were changed in Campaign Evolved. Is there a proper canon hierarchy here? Or is it all treated as equal? In which case we have 2 different things happening in the same event.—This unsigned comment was made by NobleChief47 (talk • contribs). Please sign your posts with ~~~~
- Short answer is yes, both Longsword variants canonically exist (also, slight correction, the CEV variant is not a one man fighter, as we can see a second seat behind the Chief in these two images (1) and (2)). Broadly speaking, we are treating CE, CEA, and CEV as equally canonical for visuals; they are simply stylised depictions of the same events and characters. That being said, CE seems to sit higher in what would be a flat hierarchy, because we have seen Halo Studios use CE visuals (such as a CE image to depict Zuka 'Zamamee in a Canon Fodder or adapting CE character models the cover art of Parasite's Wake). We will always defer to devs for canon hierarchy. JackVibe 00:54, July 26, 2026 (UTC)
- The thing is, the two-seater configuration also provides support that what we're looking at is the C712, not a C709. The general design also matches that model better in general; the lack of protruding engine intakes, and the location of the gun batteries too.
- I think it's best to list it, for the moment, as yet another visual inconsistency. Thanks to 2022 Encyclopedia, we now have a definitive visualisation of what the C709 is supposed to look like. Moreover, the details listed in the books - Halo: The Flood (which explicitly shows that C709s were at Alpha Halo) and Halo: FIRST STRIKE - don't work with the listed specifications of the C712 either. We've got those other sources we can rely on to make the best judgement in this case. That also means we can address it as simply an anomaly, which means Halopedia's usual practice (where new game media overrides the old as the definitive look, unless stated otherwise like in a Canon Fodder blog) can stand firm in all other areas. ERROR 343: Requested database has been Severed 03:09, July 26, 2026 (UTC)
- Generally I am in agreement, but as I mentioned in my previous post, our usual practice does not use new game media to override the old as the definitive look. The only thing I would add (and it’s a general sentiment shared by the rest of the staff team) is that we would treat the CEV Longsword variant as a new variant that hasn’t been depicted before instead of a retcon on the existing model. This also applies to other new weapon/character models that deviate significantly from existing known variants. Most importantly, I think all of us are waiting for a Canon Fodder or the Master Chief Omnibus to shed light on any of these variants before we start making any sweeping changes. JackVibe 16:39, July 26, 2026 (UTC)
- I don't think that's a good idea because I can see some obvious knock-on effects. Largely in terms of creating confusion on where FIRST STRIKE's details should go. Because the book as it currently stands doesn't mention which variant of Longsword Chief was using, there's an argument that the notes about the 110mm and 120mm ventral guns, Moray space mines, and on-board cryotube should only apply to whichever aircraft was being flown at the end of the game. The re-release may not correct this. That's why I'm advocating for a more cautious approach; unless we already have firm proof on the contrary, it's better to treat this as a discrepancy and wait for Microsoft to formally address the situation. ERROR 343: Requested database has been Severed 12:37, July 28, 2026 (UTC)
- Generally I am in agreement, but as I mentioned in my previous post, our usual practice does not use new game media to override the old as the definitive look. The only thing I would add (and it’s a general sentiment shared by the rest of the staff team) is that we would treat the CEV Longsword variant as a new variant that hasn’t been depicted before instead of a retcon on the existing model. This also applies to other new weapon/character models that deviate significantly from existing known variants. Most importantly, I think all of us are waiting for a Canon Fodder or the Master Chief Omnibus to shed light on any of these variants before we start making any sweeping changes. JackVibe 16:39, July 26, 2026 (UTC)
- I think it's best to list it, for the moment, as yet another visual inconsistency. Thanks to 2022 Encyclopedia, we now have a definitive visualisation of what the C709 is supposed to look like. Moreover, the details listed in the books - Halo: The Flood (which explicitly shows that C709s were at Alpha Halo) and Halo: FIRST STRIKE - don't work with the listed specifications of the C712 either. We've got those other sources we can rely on to make the best judgement in this case. That also means we can address it as simply an anomaly, which means Halopedia's usual practice (where new game media overrides the old as the definitive look, unless stated otherwise like in a Canon Fodder blog) can stand firm in all other areas. ERROR 343: Requested database has been Severed 03:09, July 26, 2026 (UTC)
Might be in poor taste to disregard the OG based on newly released supplementary material. This has happened before of course, but it's somewhat tiresome that the encyclopedia (2022) restored the CE C709 only for it to be relegated once again due to a creative decision. Then we get into squabbles over what's "more" canon. Exactly what we should avoid by including it all and call out the differences. (NobleChief47)