Forum:Domain overhaul - And what do you think

This proposal has been passed and closed as of October 17th, 2010. For more information, please see here. This is plainly a text copy of the vote, no links are in this copy

Hi everyone,

As of recent the administration has engaged in a private discussion debate about moving Halopedia away from wikia, back to its original domain location, by the means of merging our content with halopedian.com. We've seen a number of reasons for this, which I will state below.

Pre-amble

For those of you who don't know about Halopedia in its early days, Halopedia was moved to wikia in 2006 due to server problems in terms of finance. Wikia has certainly provided us a stable host for a considerable number of years, for which we are all grateful for. However, with due respect to them, we feel that moving off back to our original site will bring us benefits that we can't have while hosted by wikia, for many reasons.

The why

As Porplemontage, the halopedian.com domain owner and operator has recently brought the site back up and running, the opportunity was seen to re-merge. Aware of what happened back in 2006 when he sent the wiki to wikia, he has been asked, and has replied with confirmation that he is positive he can support us as we currently are, based on our statistics, with the backing that he now possesses a much better server and server power in reserve.

So, what will change?

• In terms of user rights, nothing. All users who have some form of user right (sysop, rollback, etc) will be guaranteed their rights on the other side. Additionally, this means that such members of our community will merge with their counterparts -- that is, users who may already hold rights on halopedian.com. But this will not have any negative effect on us as it is.
• As our wiki will be independent, this means that any software updates or anything in the technical area will be handled by the administration, as opposed to a form of staff (in our case, wikia staff).
• Pertaining to the above point, we will also have our own developer support, as I myself have seen to. Because things like addition of features, wiki software, etc would be developed only for the single wiki, it will be easier to base it on community input from that particular wiki. Therefore, community feedback and suggestions can be taken into better consideration for the developing in the technical area, which can effect just about anything in regards to the wiki.
• Our articles, policies and guidelines will remain the same. Everything that we currently have implemented will be exported from here and imported to the new site. The move will have no effect whatsoever on any of the listed.
• Elimination of most ads. As many of you know, wikia's income comes from the advertisements it hosts on its wikis. While a promise that halopedian.com will never utilize ads cannot be made, if it ever does, they will be much more sparse and only for logged out users.
• Community-related: As the wiki will be an independent, standalone site, we can say that the community will be brought closer together. For the administrators, administrating the site will also be easier as they will have access to extra tools for further anti-abuse measures. These will not be used for the settling of disputes, for threatening of users, or otherwise for anything that goes against the administrator's code of conduct. Their use will only be for the security of the site, which altogether will be for the better for the community. As there will be a lack of outlanding-staff, the administration will, with any necessary assistance from developers, be able to handle queries ranging from the simple type that is often given by everyone, to the technical aspects. While not every admin will be able to help in all areas, all areas will be covered. This also will not make the admins higher up the food chain in any way than an ordinary user. Everybody is equal on a wiki regardless; admins are simply individuals that have extra trust.
• Finally, I should probably mention about wikia's plans to enforce a new skin upon all of its wikis. Nothing wrong with that, right? While this is not the primary reason for the move, I can at least say that it has played as a factor. With due respect to the wikia developers of the skin, some of its changes are very sharp and dramatic. As I've already brought up with my colleagues, the 50% narrowing of article space, the complete redesign of the layout and the theme designer. I myself am part of the beta testing program, and with regards to the Wiki theme designer, after messing around with it for a while, I've found that it is very restricting and a somewhat ill-suitability for Halopedia's theme style. Moving over to our new domain means we move away from the new skin, and my sole personal opinion is such a move would be beneficial. Of course, this would differ from person-to-person as everyone has an opinion about it - similar or different, thus this reason has been kept as much of a minor factor as possible. On the topic of skins -- halopedian.com currently has the options of Vector (wikipedia's skin) and Monobook; we also plan to install Monaco when and if a move is made, so users will be given more options between their skin preferences.

Will we lose anything?

• Attempts have been made to minimize losses as much as possible. As far as our unique features are concerned, the Social Profile extension has been successfully implemented along with the points system over at halopedian.com. The only feature that we will lose is the Blogs due to the code being unusable. While the forums can be used for anything forum-ish, we're hoping that we'll have an alternative as soon as possible.
• All pages along with their history will be copied from here and imported to the new domain. This includes all articles of all namespaces, so nothing lost there.
• Traffic: Wikia staff will not close down halo.wikia.com, for legal and policy reasons. While this means that traffic on the new halopedia will be at first, considerably less, this shouldn't be an issue once the dedicated community switches its involvement from here to the halopedian.com and the articles are implemented. After that's done, traffic there should increase to pretty much the same volume that we currently have here. To explain this a little, the goal is to have it promoted above the halo.wikia.com in terms of search results etc, while leaving halo.wikia.com as a simple branch-off with little activity. This in itself can be beneficial to both us and anyone who might pass by, which I can explain if anybody requests so.

So what now?

We, as a community, have come a long way. Everything's in its nutshell. Whether or not this will be carried out will largely depend on the input given out on this forum thread. We know that this is an extremely huge change, and expect that there will be a lot of mixed opinions about it and we want to hear those opinions from the community as a whole, as it is a necessity for a conclusion to be made. All input will be considered and if necessary, discussed. We've done a lot and feel we have done the best we can to make workarounds for issues that would arise from this. I'm happy to say that we can almost if not completely cancel out all issues we can foresee so far. The community is strongly encouraged to make any suggestions and/or questions for anything they are concerned about.

Regards,

- O-4 insignia Nìcmávr (Tálk) 12:13, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

Questions

Have any concerns, questions? Anything not covered above? Feel free to ask here

So do we keep our user accounts or do we have to make new ones?--Soul reaper 13:42, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

Where will we find the money to run halopedia.com? CF001 14:59, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

What happens with the editcount? Apparently halopedia.org has an editcount of its own. What about the wiki editcount? I reckon it's going to become glitched? Are the halo wikia edits going to be removed or what?- JEA13 [iTalk] 14:19, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

@Soul reaper: User account data will be imported to halopedian.com, so no, you don't need to make a new one.

@CF001: As far as I know, Porple imports finances from his other sites via ads. If halopedian.com has any of these, they will be much more sparse, and only for logged out users. Having stated that he is capable of hosting it, server operation is in good hands.

@JEA13: All of the wiki content will be imported from here. That includes the articles and their histories and by extension, editcount. Obviously it will add on top of the current editcount halopedian.com has at present, but that's no issue. - O-4 insignia Nìcmávr (Tálk) 15:11, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

hat happens after the move? Does my general get reduced to 5000? Does it stay on 9000, but stops counting further halopedia edits? Does it stay on 9000, and keeps counting halopedia edits as it did with the halo wikia? - JEA13 [iTalk] 15:15, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

That includes personal editcount. Since we're exporting data only from here, yes, you will have 4000 edits on halopedian.com plus any edits you make there. - O-4 insignia Nìcmávr (Tálk) 15:22, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

And so my general WIKIA editcount gets reduced to 5000? - JEA13 [iTalk] 15:26, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

No, your wikia editcount remains untouched. As said above, the halo wikia site won't be taken down by wikia due to their policy. Therefore the move would not have any effect on any of your wikia settings of any kind. - O-4 insignia Nìcmávr (Tálk) 17:23, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

I'm on the fence about this, I see and understand both sides of the spectrum and am in more incline to agree with a move, but one nagging problem will persist: Funding. How how does the staff plan on avoiding what happened the last time. I often see domain switches happen that end in disaster. And asking, or relying on the community for funding, won't always go as well as you plan, or think it will. And I am wondering how does the staff plan on handling a worst case scenario if it happens.

My other question is what happens to this place. You mentioned that for legal reasons you, and wikia can't just delete this wiki so what happens to it? do you lock every article and just move on or can you hide all of the content and replace the entire page with a redirect or a blank "we've moved!" page? Durandal-217 23:30, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

@Durandal: Porplemontage is handling all that. No exact details, but partly the income comes from ads on some of his other sites. While we don't know whether halopedian.com will ever need ads, if it does, they will be much less and more sparse and only for logged out users. Plus logged in users won't be forced to see main page ads, which again is a pro. Don't worry, financial concerns were the first to be addressed and settled.

As for the wikia site, we'll leave a note on the sitenotice to anon and logged in users about the move, which would direct most traffic to the new site. While the wiki site probably won't go totally dead, its like comparing Darthipedia on wikia which moved to Shoutwiki (just compare their recent changes activity). Dedicated members of their community moved while the wikia one is just edited occasionally by (mostly) people passing by - O-4 insignia Nìcmávr (Tálk) 07:12, October 3, 2010 (UTC)

I would like to make a suggestion then If I may, if a move did occur, I would strongly suggest permanently locking all articles to avoid problems. Like Tony said the Halo community knows Halopedia at its current domain, and every time you type something Halo related on Google, Halopedia is the first thing to come up.

I won't lie though this is a very difficult matter to come to a conclusion on, its tough moving such a popular site off of a domain that won't let you remove your own site. I don't know anything about Oasis, but from the pictures I've seen, I'm not keen on it at all. At this point as Tony said we should wait and see what the future holds. If things get really bad. Make the move. Durandal-217 16:45, October 3, 2010 (UTC)

We can't lock all the articles because wikia wouldn't allow it (notice a pattern?). But there's there's ways around those concerns: Notes in the sitenotice and anonnotice, for example, to let visitors know that the "official Halopedia" has moved. The wikia counterpart would be a simple branch-off. Also, changing external links that link here (for example, Halopedia's template on wikipedia. Contributing factors, which will gradually direct our traffic and render halopedian.com the "official Halopedia". - O-4 insignia Nìcmávr (Tálk) 16:56, October 3, 2010 (UTC)

Wow this domain really doesn't allow you to do much then. Durandal-217 18:32, October 3, 2010 (UTC)

Nope, which is sad. Wikia had the chance to please its community but sadly they decided to ignore them.- 5əb'7aŋk(7alk) 22:37, October 3, 2010 (UTC)

What I want to know is: what exactly is Halopedia.com's capacity? 7,000 articles? 8,000? 10,000? pestilence Phil, pestilence! 23:05, October 3, 2010 (UTC)

FatalSnipe117: There's no limit to how many articles a wiki can have. Depends more on the space it has, but we have plenty of that over at halopedian.com so its not an issue. - O-4 insignia Nìcmávr (Tálk) 16:05, October 4, 2010 (UTC)

Now what happens when we abandon this place, is the staff still going to remain here or is there going to be a skeleton crew? because if we leave this place who is to stop all the anonymous trouble makers from inserting the most retarded adolescent level BS into articles? nobody can delete this place, nobody can lock all the articles or remove them, it would be exposed to the elements. Durandal-217 19:18, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

Actually, IP addresses are not able to edit the wiki (wikia did that a while ago). The block log shows vandalism has gone down by quite a few points, and yes, staff have and will always have admin access here. Although we'll leave notices to visitors that "we have moved", they'll probably still be a small number of occasional visitors who might make a few edits. Again, since it wouldn't any longer be the "official" Halopedia, what little of that happens won't concern us much, especially when the volume of traffic to the new Halopedia increases to what it is now on here. - O-4 insignia Nìcmávr (Tálk) 19:28, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

Not a really big concern, Nic. But will we still have access to #halopedia on freenode? Rico Croce

Of course. The IRC policy articles will also be on the import list, and we have an IRC app installed on the new wiki. Everything stays pretty much the same IRC-wise :P - O-4 insignia Nìcmávr (Tálk) 21:05, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

I assume that the Halo Fanon wikia will remain as is. Therefore my question is, will it still be easy to link to Halopedian articles from Halo Fanon pages like users currently link to Halopedia.org? -TheLostJedi 13:27, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

Yes. The linking system on wikis is universal. If you wish to link to something on halopedian.com, its precisely LinkTitle. Nothing changes in that respect, it works as an external link the same way it currently does. - O-4 insignia Nìcmávr (Tálk) 13:40, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

hi this is blue elite 145 i'm wondering have we move already and will this wiki just stop having new info and everyone will go to halopedian?

Yes, we have moved. There still are users who edit here, however. The reason not many know this is because our notice on the main page got removed. --Shade 21:27, November 22, 2010 (UTC)

Input vote

Below is the voting, as follows:

Support Support = In favor of moving to halopedian.com

15px-Symbol neutral vote.svg Neutral = Not sure

Oppose Oppose = Against moving to halopedian.com

NOTE: Prior to voting, users should make themselves familiar with Halopedia's Voting Policy. Keep in mind that "Article Edits" are not the same as "Total Edits." The number of total edits is that which is found at the top of your user page. The number of article edits can be found on your Social Profile page, under "Statistics."

Support (34/4 sysops)

Support Support I'm all for this move, mainly because Wikia often changes things to what users don't want. Halo Fanon is a good example. Love is Noise Love is PainLove is these blues 12:47, October 2, 2010 (UTC) Dude, do you even have 50 main space edits? pestilence Phil, pestilence! 18:36, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

She has 101 total edits and is an IRC op, she's fine. - Black Mesa Halo-343 (Talk) (Contribs) (Edits) 18:52, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

Support Support I believe this will bring many welcome changes to Halopedia. My only concern is that the pages, which are over 5000 in quantity if I recall correctly, must be stored and transfered properly. The articles should be left up and running until we have secured them on the other site. Also, is it possible that we revert back to the old text editor we had before? The new one is far too complicated for someone who wants to get things done quick. -DinoBenn says "Fight to the End, Never Give In" S4 13:48, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

Support Support Seems like the logical answer to solving this problem. Roy Mustang's mini-skirt 18:17, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

Support Support Jack Phoenix Proxy vote via Roy Mustang's mini-skirt

Support Support - As it is, I've always been in favour of having Halopedia on its own domain provided it could be supported. Though just as a note for those opposing, re-read what has been written in the reasonings and re-consider it; we're not moving for no reason. While many of the reasons are administrative ones, these will also have an effect on the community, which seals their importance. Frunner: You're entitled to your own opinion about wikia's theme, but I have to comment on point no. 2: Nothing stays the same. I too had the same concern but Porple has repeatedly confirmed he is this time (unlike 4 years ago) capable of supporting the wiki. Even if that's not enough to convince you, then how about the fact that he is currently hosting another 3 sites, one being mariowiki, which is twice our size? As for getting our users there: If the whole community votes on this, they'll obviously be aware, dedicated users aren't just going to get lost in the blue. Should this pass, anyone who doesn't want to move is welcome to stay, because wikia will not let the site go down. And for those who are opposing/supporting because of the skin, or just think we're the only site on the brink of moving away, check this out: http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance - O-4 insignia Nìcmávr (Tálk) 18:58, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

Support Support - I wasn't really sure at first, both sides made compelling arguments, but I've decided to support this. Colonel Grade OneCol. Snipes450Colonel Grade One 22:03, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

Support Support - 5əb'7aŋk(7alk) 22:20, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

Support Support---~Mrepic~Talk to me 21:09, October 3, 2010 (UTC)-Mrepic 01:06, October 3, 2010 (UTC)

Does not have 50 edits--Emblem 1 Rusty - 112 02:08, October 3, 2010 (UTC)

Support Support Being a long time member, I support the move. And any idiot who seriously votes against this because of point or edit count should probably have their vote removed for blatant idiocy. [Sometimes, it's all about the glory.] Superintendant-alone [Put your boot up enough alien backside and the corps will pin rows of medals on your chest.][Bad ass, unlocked.] You are clearly referring to me here, I am the only one who talked about the editcount. I have to say: 1) my reasons for opposing have nothing to do with that, it was just a question. 2) I could have opposed for any reasons I wanted, including the editcount one if I wanted, and that doesn't mean I am an idiot, and 3) who the hell are you to request my vote be deleted. -JEA13 [iTalk] 08:17, October 3, 2010 (UTC)

Its a stupid reason to oppose such a proposal. Edit count ultimately means nothing - just like the hideous mistake that was points, blogs, and the quizzes. Your reasons for voting how you did are your own, as you said above. Also, did I request your vote to be removed? Nope - reread my initial comment. [Sometimes, it's all about the glory.] Superintendant-alone [Put your boot up enough alien backside and the corps will pin rows of medals on your chest.][Bad ass, unlocked.]

...AND AGAIN, the editcount was not my reason of opposition. Care to read what I say on my vote? That would be something I would happily talk about - JEA13 [iTalk] 19:41, October 3, 2010 (UTC)

Support Support COOL! DARKSTORM99 07:03, October 3, 2010 (UTC) Does not have 50 edits--Emblem 1 Rusty - 112 11:43, October 3, 2010 (UTC) User does have 50 edits - actually has 75. [Sometimes, it's all about the glory.] Superintendant-alone [Put your boot up enough alien backside and the corps will pin rows of medals on your chest.][Bad ass, unlocked.]

The count is ARTICLE EDITS, not total edits. Darkstorm only has 17 article edits, as can be seen at his social profile page here, under "Statistics."--Emblem 1 Rusty - 112 21:46, October 3, 2010 (UTC)

Support Support - While the task is large, it will ultimately benefit us. The changes Wikia are forcing on us this time are too great, and we will suffer because of them. - Black Mesa Halo-343 (Talk) (Contribs) (Edits) 12:10, October 3, 2010 (UTC)

Support Support - Obviously, the change will be huge and will have to be done gradually, but looking at Wikia's new skin and more importantly, the benefits of independence from Wikia, it's hard for me to find any good reason to oppose this. I believe the Halo community will eventually find the other site and get used to it, even if it takes some time. All I'm concerned about is the stability of the halopedian.com server, but then again, even Wikia has problems sometimes. --Jugus (Talk | Contribs) 16:04, October 3, 2010 (UTC)

Support Support - In my opinion the imminent skin change will hurt the wiki more then moving ever could. The new skin, combined with changes to Wikia's Terms of Use that prevent the administration from using CSS and/or JS the way they see fit to customize the skin, will completely change the look of Halopedia as we know it. I've seen the skin, the articles will look weird and the overall layout of the site will confuse many people. At this point it would be better for Halopedia to be on its own and in a place where the administration and the community decide how the wiki looks, a place where the layout and overall "Halopedia experience" is only limited by the imagination and choices of the community. --Jedimca0(Do or Do Not, There is No Try) 19:49, October 3, 2010 (UTC)

Support Support - I am a beta tester for the new skin. It's horrible. ShadowBroker44 Librarian (TALK) (CONTRIBS) 22:08, October 3, 2010 (UTC)

Support Support - I have stood by Wikia for some time, and I really thought Wikia was a place where nothing goes wrong. Hah, boy was I wrong. When we move, I'll be happy to see the users have more rights than we have right now. I'm sick of constant advertising (I've seen many disturbing ads that I should not even describe)--Shade 00:42, October 4, 2010 (UTC)

Support Support SOUNDS like it could work, and I'd hate to see this wiki get forced into changes that people would hate. Tuckerscreator(stalk)

Support Support - strongly, even.Let's finish the fight. Phil.e. [Talk to me] 01:01, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

Support Support - After thinking this again, I believe that we'll have more profits if we leave. With an independed site, we'll be able to avoid the Oasis skin along with the rest of filth Wikia is planning to bring the next days and we will have much more options on creating Halopedia's outlook. Besides, we aren't going to lose anything apart from the blogs (and the useless polls & quizzes). And financing is n