Archive talk:Rank Canon Debate

The Debate

How far are we going to take this Rank thing? I noticed that people have created, Captain and Admiral. What is the UNSC rank structure? Is it like this:?

Who made this its all wrong!--Ryanngreenday 10:31, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

the navy ranks in the UNSC are the navy ranks of our time and the same for the Marines.--Ryanngreenday 18:45, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

http://www.defenselink.mil/specials/insignias/ Heres a good resource for that. --JohnSpartan117 03:18, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Present day American Ranks

The ranks here are incorrect. If you really want to make an article for each rank, remember that there are a LOT of them, and most are used. Here are the ranks; they correspond to the ones used today in the US military:

Navy Enlisted

• Crewman
• Petty Officer Third Class
• Officer Second Class
• Petty Officer First Class
• Chief Petty Officer
• Senior Chief Petty Officer
• Master Chief Petty Officer

navy Warrant Officers

• Warrant Officer 1
• Warrant Officer 2
• Warrant Officer 3
• Warrant Officer 4
• Master Warrant Officer

Navy officers

• Ensign
• Lieutenant (Jr Grade)
• Lieutenant (Sr Grade)
• Lieutenant commander
• Commander
• Captain
• Rear Admiral
• Vice Admiral
• Admiral
• Fleet Admiral

Note that for example Tech Officer (3rd class) Sam Marcus is actually a petty officer third class but he has a different rank name because he is a technician.

Marine Enlisted

• Private
• Private First Class
• Lance Corporal
• Corporal
• Sergeant
• Staff Sergeant
• Gunnery Sergeant
• Master Sergeant
• First Sergeant
• Master Gunnery Sergeant
• Sergeant Major

Marine Warrant Officers

• Warrant Officer
• Chief Warrant Officer 2
• Chief Warrant Officer 3
• Chief Warrant Officer 4
• Chief Warrant Officer 5

Marine Officers

• Second Lieutenant
• First Lieutenant
• Captain
• Major
• Lieutenant Colonel
• Colonel
• Brigadier General
• Major General
• Lieutenant General
• General

Note that "Company Sergeant" has also been used. The "Company Sergeant" rank doesn't even exist in the modern chain of command, and so we have no idea where to put either of these. However, it might be a title rather than a rank.

Rank structure is speculation!

All this said, we don't know how the rank structure works, it has never been described. If we were to make articles for each rank, they would be stubs with about one charachter link, and if we made one article, it would be an awful lot of speculation. I say we wait until we know more about the tanks before we make articles on them. -ED 19:08, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

that looks right now.--Ryanngreenday 19:57, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

How about we make a page with the above info and move the content of captain and admiral into it? -- Esemono 22:03, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Company Sergeant is like the highest ranking Sergeant in a Company,people just call them that but thats not really there rank like a staff Sergeant in charge of Squads is called a plt.sgt. or Platoon Sergeant and Sergeant Major is after Master Gunnery Sergeant.--Ryanngreenday 10:29, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

UNSCDF is not American

• UNSCDF is not American and so you can't guarntee that the rank system is American. It just as easily be British, or French ranks. All the above ranks should not be used as the UNSCDF ranking scheme isn't confirmed. --220.108.255.31 04:17, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

If you read the books it will become clear.--Ryanngreenday 09:45, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

The books? Here is Halo: First Strike and Halo: The Fall of Reach. Show me on what page that it talks about a rank structure and where it says that the UNSCDF is an American military force. --220.108.255.31 08:17, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

The UNSC is probably mostly Americans. Kind of weird...you never see Chineise or Indians, and they would be the most populous. Its always...English, Mexican, orAmerican.--JohnSpartan117 02:06, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

You only ever see a small group of people that could easily be from Argentina as they could be from America. It's never stated what the rank structure is and so a rank article shouldn't be created. Also Captain and Admiral should also be deleted as speculation.--220.108.255.31 08:17, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

• Read the books write down all the ranks go on the internet search military ranks and compare them to the Mexican,Chineise,Indians or any other see the ranks might come close or not at all, then look at this ranks units every thing makes sense.--Ryanngreenday 09:49, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Again Here are Halo: First Strike and Halo: The Fall of Reach. Show me on what page that it talks about a rank structure and where it says that the UNSCDF is an American military force. --220.108.255.31 08:17, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

• Im sure the UN has US military ranks, what other ranks would they use? --JohnSpartan117 15:18, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

good point.--Ryanngreenday 16:20, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Good point? Hardly! It's obvious to everyone that the UNSCDF uses a mixture of ranks taken from the permant members of the security council i.e. Britian, France, Russia, China.--220.108.255.31 08:17, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

No...the whole council had American ranks. --JohnSpartan117 02:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

No the whole council are British ranks.

• You're forgetting what the UN is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Un it seems in the future earth has more or less united with the UN as their leader they probably elected different leaders from different country’s to rule, since Bungies American their use American ranks the master chief salutes like a yank any way. --Climax Viod 10:00, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Keep in mind that the UNSC is more of a government than a union. This comes from the info from the map Zanzibar dewscription: "Wind Power Station 7 sits as a mute reminder of the EAP's late 25th-century attempt at re-nationalization" The UNSC is not nationalized as the UN is today; it appears that humanity is united under one government; the Colonial Administration Authority of the UNSC. Needless to say, we haven't been told a lot about how the Governemnt works in Halo. 220.108.255.31 has a point. The vast majority of the ranks we have seen so far are american, but we have never seen a concrete rank scheme, only the different ranks. We can assume that they are organized in the same way as the American Military, but we can not know for certain.

At the same time, remember that Halo was developed by an american company, so naturally there is a bias towards the relatively easy to recognize american military rank system. The Decorations worn by the soldiers correspond exactly to those seen in the US military today. Therefore, I will once again suggest that we hold of on creating rank articles, as we do not know for certain how the UNSC military is organized. We can only speculate. -ED 17:19, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

it's right--Ryanngreenday 17:24, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

• one of the new books, games or the movie will tell us soon enouth egreed ? --Climax Viod 17:31, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

egreed--Ryanngreenday 17:41, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

• Whoever just said they had british ranks is wrong, they do not have british ranks. In fact...they are usually ranks like "Admiral", "Major General", which...could be from multiple countries, but most likely, American. --JohnSpartan117 19:26, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Most Likely American but not confirmed therefore using the American ranking system would be speculation which is against Halo policy.--John117 01:42, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

I wouldnt call it speculation, every single rank we see is American...they even have Purple Hearts, which are American. --JohnSpartan117 02:11, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

I never said that there wouldn't be any American influence in the UNSCDF but it's PURE speculation to say that the entire UNSCDF is based on the US military. --John117 03:11, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

There all right why wont you people just accept it?--Ryanngreenday 14:33, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

• Is Master Cheif Petty Officer Of The Navy a common rank amongst the world? --JohnSpartan117 19:25, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

no not that common, id say Bungie would use American ranks because they're American, but may put in some British stuff eg Ranks and awards, if they like the sounds of them --Climax Viod 20:12, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

It's a unique rank to the American NAVY but in it's present form the Master Cheif Petty Officer of the Navy is more like a Union rep. The advise the senior staff on issues that concern the lower ranks. -- 06:12, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Ok, 220.108.255.31 earlier said

"Here are Halo: First Strike and Halo: The Fall of Reach. Show me on what page that it talks about a rank structure and where it says that the UNSCDF is an American military force."

So I am here to provide page numbers for all 34 (of 43) confirmed USN and USMC ranks that are also UNSDC ranks.

• Private: Halo: The Flood, page 49
• Private First Class: Halo: The Flood, page 162
• Lance Corporal: Halo: The Flood, page 156
• Corporal: Halo: The Flood, page 109
• Sergeant: Halo: The Flood, page 107
• Staff Sergeant: Halo: The Fall of Reach, page 325
• Gunnery Sergeant: Halo: The Flood, page 169
• Master Sergeant: Halo: The Flood, page 115
• First Sergeant: Unconfirmed
• Master Gunnery Sergeant: Halo 2, The Armory
• Sergeant Major: Halo 2, The Armory
• Warrant Officer: Unconfirmed
• Chief Warrant Officer: Unconfirmed
• Second Lieutenant: Halo: The Flood, page 108
• First Lieutenant: Halo: The Flood, page 58
• Captain: Unconfirmed
• Major: Halo: The Flood, page 33
• Lieutenant Colonel: Unconfirmed
• Colonel: Halo: First Strike, page 100
• Brigadier General: Unconfirmed
• Major General: Halo: First Strike, page 100
• Lieutenant General: Unconfirmed
• General: Halo: The Fall of Reach, page 160
• Crewman: Halo: The Flood, page 21
• Petty Officer Third Class: Halo: The Flood, page 209
• Petty Officer Second Class: Halo: The Fall of Reach, page 99
• Petty Officer First Class: Halo: The Flood, page 208
• Chief Petty Officer: Halo: The Fall of Reach, page 99
• Senior Chief Petty Officer: Halo: Ghosts of Onyx, page 67
• Master Chief Petty Officer: Halo: The Flood, page 19
• Warrant Officer: Halo: First Strike, page 43
• Chief Warrant Officer: Unconfirmed
• Ensign: Halo: The Fall of Reach, page 159
• Lieutenant Junior Grade: Halo: The Fall of Reach
• Lieutenant: Halo: The Flood, page 11
• Lieutenant Commander: Halo: Ghosts of Onyx, page 125
• Commander: Halo: Ghosts of Onyx, page 126
• Captain: Halo: The Flood, page 1
• Rear Admiral Lower: Unconfirmed
• Rear Admiral (Upper): Halo: Ghosts of Onyx, page 124
• Vice Admiral: Halo: The Fall of Reach, page 159
• Admiral: Halo: The Fall of Reach, page 99
• Fleet Admiral: Halo: First Strike, page 100

--Rot 03:20, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Appeal to a higher authority

• I have a good idea, lets email Frankie and ask him. --JohnSpartan117 21:43, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

...and while were at it..lets ask him if their are any Naval ground combat elements besides the Marines and Spartans. Like...Navy seals or something. --JohnSpartan117 21:44, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Do you think they'd respond ? --Climax Viod 21:48, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

• All ranks here are right. Most if not all of the navy ranks here are in the books and sense they are right and from the Marine ranks in the books we can see that the Marine ranks are right.--Ryanngreenday 22:14, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

• whos Frankie?--Ryanngreenday 10:03, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Frankie is the higher authority -- John117 10:56, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Frankie is the keeper of Halo Info! He works for Bungie! Im sure...if we tell him that were from Halopedia....--JohnSpartan117 14:16, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

yeah reprasentives haha --Climax Viod 16:16, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

You might have a better chance with the Mods of the Bungie forums? Maybe just make a post about it on HBO, where there is a slight chance a Bungie member will respond. Not an open question to Bungie, but a normal thread (they do that occasionally). And if they don't come, you can get input from a bunch of other fans. --Dragonclaws 17:15, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

It would be hard to post urself on hbo and expect a decent answer, all they talk about thats close to halopedia, is that other halo wiki that focuses ONLY of Halo 2 multiplayer. But if you do, hopefully a less intelligent/new bungie worker might fall for it. Ironic, that last plan IS speculation, and were supposed to get rid of speculation articles. hahahahaha. --Forerunner 13:09, 3 November 2006 (GMT)

Votes for Deletion

• Delete - This is Noncannon speculation just like Installation 07 and should be deleted -- John117 10:56, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
• Keep - any body with a brain and an open mide could see that its right.--Ryanngreenday 10:01, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
• keep - I agree, its quite obvious, and not really speculation as it is common sense that they use US Naval and Marine ranks, but maybe....we should take our chances before we delete this and ask Bungie? --JohnSpartan117 14:18, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

I recently changed my vote to delete.--JohnSpartan117 06:43, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

I've changed it back to keep.--JohnSpartan117 08:36, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

• Keep- yeah until its corrected --Climax Viod 07:19, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
• Keep-its the same as in the novels--Chiefman117 20:03, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
• Delete - It's all fiction. No one except the Bungie staff know what the rank structure is like. -- Yamanba 14:07, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
• Keep-Lots of us have assumed that the rank structure is based on the U.S. Navy & Marine Corps, based on information from the books. Until someone from Bungie contradicts that, I say we keep it. Manticore 16:13, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

4 to 1 I think its staying so can i get ride of this disputed content crap?--Ryanngreenday 16:36, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Why did it change from Dispute to pending deletion?--JohnSpartan117 00:56, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

It should not because we won.--Ryanngreenday 09:40, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Someone here watches too much Star Trek.

• JR Grade? SR Grade? These are Star Trek Ranks not real naval ranks! Even the Read (lower) Admiral and (Upper) are really really trekky--JohnSpartan117 03:05, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

This is the exact reason the rank pages need to be deleted! This is all speculation! No one knows what the UNSC rank structure is! -- John11704:11, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

• I think this place needs to be REPLACED with the real navy ranks, who the hell would put Star Trek ranks? Once again...I am in disgust and vomitting all over the house. --JohnSpartan117 04:24, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

They might be on star trek but they're in the navy which Star Trek's ranking system is probably based on.easternct.edu ranks--Ryanngreenday 09:46, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

No...Sr Grade and JR Grade are NOT in the navy.