Talk:Jiralhanae: Difference between revisions

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near extinction[edit]

Considering that many Jiralhanae joined the military during the great schism, and didn't do much of the labor or intelligent work(cubicle work) I believe about half of them died by the end of the Human-Covenant war. With the continued fighting with Sanghelie and the lack of food availability I assume there are less than 1,000 by 2557 when peace talks begin. Should this be added to the page? I can show the math behind it. -Sallan.

Why would the Sangheili, a species perfectly comfortable with eradicating humanity as long as it was for the right reasons, make peace with their hated rivals if they were on the verge of extinction? I don't think you're accounting for the Jiralhanae civilian populations - not every Jiralhanae would have joined up. Even if most of the males did, that still leaves the females. I'm also not sure where you're getting the "lack of food availability" from. -- Qura 'Morhek ^{The Autocrat} ^{of Morheka} 22:18, 15 August 2014 (EDT)

At this point Jul'Madma's group has started another Human-Covenant war because the humans believe all Covenant wanted to aid the Ur-Didact. The Military got so caught up in that that they forgot about the Jiralhanae and were willing to accept help. Some served as Body Guards for Sangheili. Thel'Vadam supported the San'Shyuum but realized he was wrong. he helped other species convert, so why not the Jiralhanae? I'll accept that 5,000 survive. The lack of food availability is mentioned in the article. When the Sangheili returned to self sufficiency the Jiralhanae put all there power into the military and stole supplies from other species.-Sallan

Well, considering that the Brutes could survive all those civil wars on one planet even before joining the Covenant, I'm sure they could also survive whatever issues/problems thrown at them after the fall of the Covenant throughout the Orion Arm.

Oh, sign your comments using the four tildes (~~~~). — subtank 09:52, 17 August 2014 (EDT)

I'm not sure where you are pulling the 1,000 to 5,000 number from. But I can guess. Their homeworld contains billions of them. They have been raiding colonies for supplies... and as of 2559 are still fighting each other and the Sangheili. You have absolutely no evidence to support them being near extinction. There is no debate to be had here. All existing canon suggests that they are still a threat to the galaxy. ProphetofTruth (talk) 10:47, 17 August 2014 (EDT)

I understand I was wrong and that they are still strong, but I would not call it a threat. They easily be defeated by Humans and Sangheili and are unlikely to do much damage without the San'ShyuumSallan (talk) 23:21, 30 August 2014 (EDT)Sallan

Skeins, master-packs and alpha tribes[edit]

Currently, the article makes rather many assumptions as to the relationship between "Alpha Tribes" and "master-packs". Truth is, we don't know how these two relate to one another or if, as I suspect, they're in fact synonymous. The Waypoint article for Jiralhanae introduces the concept of meta-clans or "skeins", which I believe are just another word for master-packs or alpha tribes (as the Waypoint article describes two skeins going to war with one another whereas previously Contact Harvest described the civil war as having taken place between master-packs). Given that the term "Alpha Tribe" has only appeared once and Jiralhanae society isn't particularly inclined for complex structures (like having many different levels of meta-pack), I believe we could safely regard the three as different names for the same form of social grouping. --Jugus (Talk | Contribs) 10:16, 23 November 2014 (EST)

I agree with the Alpha Tribe/Master-Pack are probably one and the same, but I'm not so sure on the master-pack/skein idea. Catalog mentioned that Lydus was Chieftain of a master-pack, so that term is still being used at least. The master-packs seem to be clans/familial units, but the skeins appear to be more like philosophies, perhaps formed by developing in different regions of Doisac. -- SFH (talk) 13:13, 23 November 2014 (EST)

That is possible and it's probably better for us to play it safe, but it's odd that the new Waypoint entry doesn't bother mentioning the master-packs at all. --Jugus (Talk | Contribs) 13:27, 23 November 2014 (EST)

Much of Waypoint's universe section still hasn't been finished. A lot of subjects are still missing entries, so it's possible that the current entries are missing some information. -- SFH (talk) 13:37, 23 November 2014 (EST)

Agreed with SFH on skeins. The wiki definition makes its possible applicability vague at best, but it's probably more like the East/West divide in human international politics than formal diplomatic alignment. As for Alpha tribes/Master-Packs, I'm inclined to think that they represent the difference between planetary governments and nation-states - Alpha representatives clearly have the authority to negotiate for at least planet-level groups, possibly interstellar groups, while Master-Packs are described in terms more reminiscent of planet-bound nations. Lydus is the chief contradiction, but the Jiralhanae are on the brink of collapse at this point, and I don't find it difficult to believe that the leader of a single Master-Pack is one of the highest-ranking officials left after years of Sangheili retribution. -- Qura 'Morhek ^{The Autocrat} ^{of Morheka} 18:50, 23 November 2014 (EST)

I concede my point about the skeins, but the difference between alpha tribes and master packs still seems trivial to me at best, particularly since both terms are so close to one another in definition. I get what you're saying about a (possible) distinction, but we have to keep in mind that our reference pool isn't exactly huge with a total of one mention of the alpha tribes and two of master-packs, one of the latter in a context very similar to the earlier use "alpha tribes". And variable terminology isn't exactly something unheard of either—even the basic Jiralhanae groupings have been called many things (packs, tribes and clans). --Jugus (Talk | Contribs) 10:36, 24 November 2014 (EST)

Major edits[edit]

I'm currently working on updating this article and generally cleaning it up. I was wondering if anyone would be against me revamping the "Command structure" to make it more in-line with the similar sections on the Kig-Yar and Sangheili articles. There seems to be an adequate amount of information for it, plus I find that it looks more appealing when it is formatted way. Not to mention that some of the ranks listed in the section are either conjecture or don't exist. - NightHammer (talk) 21:01, 18 December 2014 (EST)

Absolutely. No reason to have this article diverge from the new format (it's also nice to hear this is getting a long-overdue overhaul).--Jugus (Talk | Contribs) 07:22, 19 December 2014 (EST)

Okay, cool. I should be finished updating the article sometime tomorrow. - NightHammer (talk) 23:53, 19 December 2014 (EST)

War Chieftain vs Regular Chieftain - Who's the boss?[edit]

Because as many other users have pointed out the War Chieftains are more numerous as well as physically weaker in armour durability and command smaller posts. --The Ultimate Pie (talk) 07:00, 29 August 2017 (EDT)

What do you think would be great for Jiralhanae defector[edit]

I know non of this will ever be told in Halo lores never but it would be ausume to see a Jiralhanae defector during Halo 2 maybe release the Marines from the Shadow of Intent and it would be cool to see him ally himself as the only brute in the Fleet of Retribution, maybe someday if I asked Bungie to do just a novel I think maybe then we could have a Jiralhanae defector defect to the Fleet of Retribution but the only one,

But that was just a dream nothing else.

I know the Fleet of Retibution has no brute defectors, only Rtas 'Vadum, Thel 'Vadam, Usze 'Taham, N'tho 'Sraom, a Large number of Sangheili Minors, Majors, Special Operations, High Councilors, possibly Ultra's and likely I think to my opinion Zealots and possilby one Ossoona likely, maybe Honor Guardsman, possibly or likely a Imperial Admiral maybe General's possibly Ranger's that's my guess and god knows who they could be but they might have been others that we didnt' see in Halo 2 maybe of other rank titles, I know they had a smaller number of Kig-Yar, plus a small number of Special Operations Unggoy and Large Number of Unggoy Major's and Minors, possibly Ultra, Imperial maybe, Heavy, and god knows I can't think of any more, and small number of Mgalekgolo, it's also a shame in Halo 3 we never got to see many of these possibly wasn't added in due to budget issues with Bungie at the time,

But that does sound a hell of a lot interesting, Colby James (talk) 05:12, 23 March 2018 (EDT)

I was going to rollback your post because it's really something that would be more appropriate on a forum or reddit post, but let's face it, we've been pretty forgiving with talk page discussions for years now, and if it gets people talking I can't really condemn it. But there were, in fact, Brutes who remained loyal to the Elites, at least until they revolted in 2553 on Sanghelios. Brutes also continued to serve alongside Elites among the Banished, and in 'Mdama's Covenant (though rarer), and at least one faction has been seen sueing for peace with the Elites using the UNSC as a neutral arbitrater. As for what exactly made up the Fleet of Retribution, we don't see much because A.) having a bunch of units you'd been fighting suddenly on your side might have confused casual players, and B.) we don't actually see most of the action that fleet takes part in - we see a special forces insertion in Voi, small teams of Elite shock troops when the Chief fights to secure one of the towers, and then otherwise the Elite troops are fighting elsewhere, or it's a naval engagement over the Ark. Bungie also no longer have anything to do with the Halo franchise, that role has been taken on by 343 Industries, and this has been the case for many years now. Frankly, given the woes of the Destiny franchise, I can't say I'm sorry about that. -- Qura 'Morhek ^{The Autocrat} ^{of Morheka} 07:03, 24 March 2018 (EDT)

Height[edit]

There's an error with the height conversion (which is from waypoint). It says 259 cm or 8'5". But 259 cm is actually 8'6". So do we change the cm to 257 cm, or the inches from 8'6" to 8'5"? 108.28.17.236 17:48, 4 February 2019 (EST) emasik

Good catch! Seems like the air was made because someone saw that 259 cm is 8.5 feet and so wrote "8 feet, five inches". I'll hit up Grim about it on Twitter. In the meantime, let's change it over to 8'6.TheEld (talk) 18:00, 4 February 2019 (EST)TheEld

thanks for the quick reply and edit. 108.28.17.236 19:14, 4 February 2019 (EST) emasik

Language[edit]

Going through the audio logs in Halo Infinite, I noticed that some of the Jiralhanae audio logs are numbered, 1 through 9. They follow the somewhat Latin format, being "Unus", "Duol", "Tres", "Quattuor", "Quinque", "Siks", "Septem", "Octus", and "Novem". Would it be okay to add those to the "Language" section?--The Ragin Pagan (talk) 11:02, August 13, 2022 (EDT)

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-<div style="float:right; padding-left:5px;">
+{{Archived|multi=Archives<br />[[/Archive/1|1]] • [[/Archive/2|2]]}}
-{| style="text-align:center; border:1px solid #999999; background-color:#f0f0ff;font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"
+== near extinction ==
-|- padding:5px;padding-top:0.5em;font-size: 95%; text-align:center;
-|<small>'''Archives:''' <small>[[Talk:Jiralhanae/Archive|1]]</small><br /></small>
-__TOC__
-|}
-</div>
-== Brute Strength measurement is way off ==
+Considering that many Jiralhanae joined the military during the great schism, and didn't do much of the labor or intelligent work(cubicle work) I believe about half of them died by the end of the Human-Covenant war. With the continued fighting with Sanghelie and the lack of food availability  I assume there are less than 1,000 by 2557 when peace talks begin. Should this be added to the page? I can show the math behind it. -Sallan.
-In the description section, the fight between Master Chief and a Brute on the Covenant station Unyielding Hierophant is used as a testament to the Brute's strength. I would like to point out that all Spartans (excluding Master Chief) involved in that fight had less than one week prior sustained injuries from falling over two kilometers at terminal velocity onto the planet Reach's surface, and also sustained various other combat related injuries since then, including but not limited to the battle of Reach, and the repairing of the Ascendent Justice's main drive conduit (page 233  Halo: First Strike). Master Chief himself had sustained various injuries on Halo, which are described in Doctor Halsey's words, "What with the burns, contrusions, fractures and internal bleeding, you should be in shock. The only sleep you've gotten in a week was unconsciousness brought on by your wounds." (Page 242 Halo: First Strike)
+:Why would the Sangheili, a species perfectly comfortable with eradicating humanity as long as it was for the right reasons, make peace with their hated rivals if they were on the verge of extinction? I don't think you're accounting for the Jiralhanae civilian populations - not every Jiralhanae would have joined up. Even if most of the males did, that still leaves the females. I'm also not sure where you're getting the "lack of food availability" from. -- [[User:Morhek|<b><font color=indigo>Qura 'Morhek</font></b>]] [[halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>The Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>of Morheka</sup></font></i></u>]] 22:18, 15 August 2014 (EDT)
-The Spartans involved in this fight were by no means in peak condition and to top it off, were in Mark V armor. I would go as far to say that a Spartan in peak condition in Mark VI armor would be quite capable of overpowering a Brute in hand to hand combat. I believe this can not be ignored and I request that the erroneous measurement be amended or removed. As for how that should be done, I'm new to wiki so I have no idea what to do. [[Special:Contributions/210.49.203.8|210.49.203.8]] 05:28, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
+At this point Jul'Madma's group has started another Human-Covenant war because the humans believe all Covenant wanted to aid the Ur-Didact. The Military got so caught up in that that they forgot about the Jiralhanae and were willing to accept help. Some served as Body Guards for Sangheili. Thel'Vadam supported the San'Shyuum but realized he was wrong. he helped other species convert, so why not the Jiralhanae? I'll accept that 5,000 survive. The lack of food availability is mentioned in the article. When the Sangheili returned to self sufficiency the Jiralhanae put all there power into the military and stole supplies from other species.-Sallan
-==Intelligence==
+:Well, considering that the Brutes could survive all those civil wars on one planet even before joining the Covenant, I'm sure they could also survive whatever issues/problems thrown at them after the fall of the Covenant throughout the Orion Arm.
+:Oh, sign your comments using the four tildes (<code><nowiki>~~~~</nowiki></code>). — <span style="font-size:14px; font-family:Arial;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span>  09:52, 17 August 2014 (EDT)
-This article states that Brutes are smarter than most humans. Source? [[User:Blacktiger9000|Blacktiger9000]] 22:02, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
+::I'm not sure where you are pulling the 1,000 to 5,000 number from. But I can guess. Their homeworld contains billions of them. They have been raiding colonies for supplies... and as of 2559 are still fighting each other and the Sangheili. You have absolutely no evidence to support them being near extinction. There is no debate to be had here. All existing canon suggests that they are still a threat to the galaxy. [[User:ProphetofTruth|ProphetofTruth]] ([[User talk:ProphetofTruth|talk]]) 10:47, 17 August 2014 (EDT)
-:It's bull. BALEETED -[[User:Azathoth|<font color="black">''theblackthrone''</font>]] [[User talk:Azathoth|<font color="black"><sub>(atthecenter)</sub></font>]]  [[Special:Contributions/Azathoth|<font color="black"><sub>(ofultimatechaos)</sub></font>]] 22:19, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
-The Brutes are all brawn and no brains.
+::: I understand I was wrong and that they are still strong, but I would not call it a threat. They easily be defeated by Humans and Sangheili and are unlikely to do much damage without the San'Shyuum[[User:Sallan|Sallan]] ([[User talk:Sallan|talk]]) 23:21, 30 August 2014 (EDT)Sallan
-Its true and not funny at all.  [[User:Spec-op sniper058|Spec-op sniper058]] 22:28, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
+== Skeins, master-packs and alpha tribes ==
-==sword?==
+Currently, the article makes rather many assumptions as to the relationship between "Alpha Tribes" and "master-packs". Truth is, we don't know how these two relate to one another or if, as I suspect, they're in fact synonymous. The [https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/universe/species/jiralhanae Waypoint article] for Jiralhanae introduces the concept of meta-clans or "skeins", which I believe are just another word for master-packs or alpha tribes (as the Waypoint article describes two skeins going to war with one another whereas previously ''Contact Harvest'' described the civil war as having taken place between master-packs). Given that the term "Alpha Tribe" has only appeared once and Jiralhanae society isn't particularly inclined for complex structures (like having many different levels of meta-pack), I believe we could safely regard the three as different names for the same form of social grouping. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 10:16, 23 November 2014 (EST)
-In the brute vidoc, there was a brute hero with a hammer. However, i haven't seen single brute with hammer in Halo3.
+:I agree with the Alpha Tribe/Master-Pack are probably one and the same, but I'm not so sure on the master-pack/skein idea. Catalog mentioned that Lydus was Chieftain of a master-pack, so that term is still being used at least. The master-packs seem to be clans/familial units, but the skeins appear to be more like philosophies, perhaps formed by developing in different regions of Doisac. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] ([[User talk:SFH|talk]]) 13:13, 23 November 2014 (EST)
-Have you? Or did Bungie drop the hammer-to-brutes idea?
+::That is possible and it's probably better for us to play it safe, but it's odd that the new Waypoint entry doesn't bother mentioning the master-packs at all. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 13:27, 23 November 2014 (EST)
+::: Much of Waypoint's universe section still hasn't been finished. A lot of subjects are still missing ''entries'', so it's possible that the current entries are missing some information. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] ([[User talk:SFH|talk]]) 13:37, 23 November 2014 (EST)
-Ah, that figures, have anyone actually seen an Elite with dual energy plasma rifle. [[User:Master Chief Petty Officer|'''ΜΆŜΤΈŖČΗέÏΣΡΈΤΤΥОΓΓïČëŗ''']] 11:15, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
+::Agreed with SFH on skeins. The wiki definition makes its possible applicability vague at best, but it's probably more like the East/West divide in human international politics than formal diplomatic alignment. As for Alpha tribes/Master-Packs, I'm inclined to think that they represent the difference between planetary governments and nation-states - Alpha representatives clearly have the authority to negotiate for at least planet-level groups, possibly interstellar groups, while Master-Packs are described in terms more reminiscent of planet-bound nations. Lydus is the chief contradiction, but the Jiralhanae are on the brink of collapse at this point, and I don't find it difficult to believe that the leader of a single Master-Pack is one of the highest-ranking officials left after years of Sangheili retribution. -- [[User:Morhek|<b><font color=indigo>Qura 'Morhek</font></b>]] [[halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>The Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>of Morheka</sup></font></i></u>]] 18:50, 23 November 2014 (EST)
-I've played through the Campaign about 2-3 times and haven't seen either. :( -[[User:TheLostJedi|'''<span style="color:maroon">TheLostJedi</span>''']] 21:52, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
+:::I concede my point about the skeins, but the difference between alpha tribes and master packs still seems trivial to me at best, particularly since both terms are so close to one another in definition. I get what you're saying about a (possible) distinction, but we have to keep in mind that our reference pool isn't exactly huge with a total of one mention of the alpha tribes and two of master-packs, one of the latter in a context very similar to the earlier use "alpha tribes". And variable terminology isn't exactly something unheard of either—even the basic Jiralhanae groupings have been called many things (packs, tribes and clans). --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 10:36, 24 November 2014 (EST)
-Nope there is no Chieftain with a sword in Halo 3 Bungie removed them.
+== Major edits ==
-==Ranks?==
+I'm currently working on updating this article and generally cleaning it up. I was wondering if anyone would be against me revamping the "Command structure" to make it more in-line with the [[Kig-Yar#Military structure|similar]] [[Sangheili#Command structure|sections]] on the Kig-Yar and Sangheili articles. There seems to be an adequate amount of information for it, plus I find that it looks more appealing when it is formatted way. Not to mention that some of the ranks listed in the section are either conjecture or don't exist. - [[User:NightHammer|NightHammer]] ([[User talk:NightHammer|talk]]) 21:01, 18 December 2014 (EST)
-I've been looking at all of the brute ranking articals and i've noticed that it's all very sketchy (Compared to the Elites). [[User:Kami-Sama]]
+:Absolutely. No reason to have this article diverge from the new format (it's also nice to hear this is getting a long-overdue overhaul).--[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 07:22, 19 December 2014 (EST)
-The Brute rank pages need to be rewritten with separate sections for Halo 2 and 3 Brutes. [[User:Mr Toad|Mr Toad]] 23:08, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
+::Okay, cool. I should be finished updating the article sometime tomorrow. - [[User:NightHammer|NightHammer]] ([[User talk:NightHammer|talk]]) 23:53, 19 December 2014 (EST)
+== War Chieftain vs Regular Chieftain - Who's the boss? ==
-==Weird==
+Because as many other users have pointed out the War Chieftains are more numerous as well as physically weaker in armour durability and command smaller posts. --[[User:The Ultimate Pie|The Ultimate Pie]] ([[User talk:The Ultimate Pie|talk]]) 07:00, 29 August 2017 (EDT)
-So, i was playing the campaign the other day with the IWHBYD skull on.  I killed a brute, and one of the brutes next to him said "He was my lover!"  Either the brute females have really deep voices, or I guess the brutes are okay with same sex relationships.
-[[User:Covenant Ghost|Covenant Ghost]] 16:04, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
-:Yeah, there's this [http://www.joystiq.com/2007/07/30/halo-3-gets-its-first-real-spartans-with-brute/ gay Brutes] article. --<b>[[User:Dragonclaws|<font color="#000000">Dragon<font color="#FF0000">c</font>laws</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Dragonclaws|<font color="#000000">talk</font>]])</sup></b> 17:20, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
+== What do you think would be great for Jiralhanae defector ==
-::Maybe the Covenant as a whole isn't against same-sex pairings, if that and similar Elite responses are really supposed to be taken seriously. I can see it more as a joke, though.--[[User:K48Kajex|K48Kajex]] 11:57, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
+I know non of this will ever be told in Halo lores never but it would be ausume to see a Jiralhanae defector during Halo 2 maybe release the Marines from the Shadow of Intent and it would be cool to see him ally himself as the only brute in the Fleet of Retribution, maybe someday if I asked Bungie to do just a novel I think maybe then we could have a Jiralhanae defector defect to the Fleet of Retribution but the only one,
-:::Well, I can't see why the Covenant would have an issue with it. Unlike our religions, their version of salvation isn't about what you do, but rather flipping some switch somewhere. --<b>[[User:Dragonclaws|<font color="#4D56B1">Dragon<font color="#F28500">c</font>laws</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Dragonclaws|<font color="#4D56B1">talk</font>]])</sup></b> 17:11, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
+But that was just a dream nothing else.
-== Joined the Covenant when? ==
+I know the Fleet of Retibution has no brute defectors, only Rtas 'Vadum, Thel 'Vadam, Usze 'Taham, N'tho 'Sraom, a Large number of Sangheili Minors, Majors, Special Operations, High Councilors, possibly Ultra's and likely I think to my opinion Zealots and possilby one Ossoona likely, maybe Honor Guardsman, possibly or likely a Imperial Admiral maybe General's possibly Ranger's that's my guess and god knows who they could be but they might have been others that we didnt' see in Halo 2 maybe of other rank titles, I know they had a smaller number of Kig-Yar, plus a small number of Special Operations Unggoy and Large Number of Unggoy Major's and Minors, possibly Ultra, Imperial maybe, Heavy, and god knows I can't think of any more, and small number of Mgalekgolo, it's also a shame in Halo 3 we never got to see many of these possibly wasn't added in due to budget issues with Bungie at the time,
-Hi, I've been trying to find out, does anyone know when the Brutes joined the Covenant? Is there an actual date in the Halo universe? Was it before the games... or after Halo: CE, or...? -[[User:TheLostJedi|'''<span style="color:maroon">TheLostJedi</span>''']] 21:39, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
+But that does sound a hell of a lot interesting, [[User:Colby James|Colby James]] ([[User talk:Colby James|talk]]) 05:12, 23 March 2018 (EDT)
-I'm pretty sure it was before Halo:CE in the Halo Universe, but Bungie came up with the Brutes before Halo 2. --[[user:Blemo|<font color="#D3D3D3">B</font><font color="#A9A9A9">le</font><font color="#808080">mo</font> <font color="gray">23</font>]] http://www.wikia.com/skins/common/progress-wheel.gif <small><sup>[[user talk:Blemo|<font color="#A9A9A9">TALK</font>]]</sup> • <sub>  [http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Contributions/Blemo <font color="A9A9A9">CONTRIBUTIONS</font>]</sub></small> • <sub><small>[http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Halo3/Default.aspx?player=Blemo+23 <font color="A9A9A9">SERVICE RECORD</font>]</small></sub> 23:00, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
+:I was going to rollback your post because it's really something that would be more appropriate on a forum or reddit post, but let's face it, we've been pretty forgiving with talk page discussions for years now, and if it gets people talking I can't really condemn it. But there were, in fact, Brutes who remained loyal to the Elites, at least until they revolted in 2553 on Sanghelios. Brutes also continued to serve alongside Elites among the Banished, and in 'Mdama's Covenant (though rarer), and at least one faction has been seen sueing for peace with the Elites using the UNSC as a neutral arbitrater. As for what exactly made up the Fleet of Retribution, we don't see much because A.) having a bunch of units you'd been fighting suddenly on your side might have confused casual players, and B.) we don't actually see most of the action that fleet takes part in - we see a special forces insertion in Voi, small teams of Elite shock troops when the Chief fights to secure one of the towers, and then otherwise the Elite troops are fighting elsewhere, or it's a naval engagement over the Ark. Bungie also no longer have anything to do with the Halo franchise, that role has been taken on by 343 Industries, and this has been the case for many years now. Frankly, given the woes of the Destiny franchise, I can't say I'm sorry about that. -- [[User:Morhek|<b><font color=indigo>Qura 'Morhek</font></b>]] [[halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>The Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>of Morheka</sup></font></i></u>]] 07:03, 24 March 2018 (EDT)
-In First Strike, they were in the Covenant, but not in the military. It wasn't even until the end of First Strike that the Honor Guard had seen a Brute, at least in the presence of a Prophet. As to the actual date they first joined, however, /me has no idea. --<span style="font-weight: bold;" title="GPT does not work for Wikia">NOTASTAFF</span> <b>[[User:Guesty-Persony-Thingy|<font color="000000">GPT</font>]]<sub>([[User talk:Guesty-Persony-Thingy|<font color="000000">talk</font>]])</sub><sup>([[Special:Contributions/Guesty-Persony-Thingy|<font color="000000">eating</font>]])</sup></b> 23:25, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
+== Height ==
-Aren't the Brutes part of the initial Covenant race, but in Halo 1, only a small part of the Covenant were sent from the Holy City to Alpha Halo to track down the Autumn? [[User:Master Chief Petty Officer|'''ΜΆŜΤΈŖČΗέÏΣΡΈΤΤΥОΓΓïČëŗ''']] 11:12, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
+There's an error with the height conversion (which is from waypoint). It says 259 cm or 8'5". But 259 cm is actually 8'6". So do we change the cm to 257 cm, or the inches from 8'6" to 8'5"? [[Special:Contributions/108.28.17.236|108.28.17.236]] 17:48, 4 February 2019 (EST) emasik
-:There is no "Covenan[t] race". The Covenant is a pact between *two* races, the Prophets and the Elites. --<span style="font-weight: bold;" title="GPT does not work for Wikia">NOTASTAFF</span> <b>[[User:Guesty-Persony-Thingy|<font color="000000">GPT</font>]]<sub>([[User talk:Guesty-Persony-Thingy|<font color="000000">talk</font>]])</sub><sup>([[Special:Contributions/Guesty-Persony-Thingy|<font color="000000">eating</font>]])</sup></b> 15:38, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
+Good catch! Seems like the air was made because someone saw that 259 cm is 8.5 feet and so wrote "8 feet, five inches". I'll hit up Grim about it on Twitter. In the meantime, let's change it over to 8'6''.[[User:TheEld|TheEld]] ([[User talk:TheEld|talk]]) 18:00, 4 February 2019 (EST)TheEld
-That was the impression I was under, that they joined the Covenant long ago, but with no facts (at least that I know of) it's just speculation. What GPT has said though sounds interesting and helpful. Thanks for all of your replies :)
+thanks for the quick reply and edit. [[Special:Contributions/108.28.17.236|108.28.17.236]] 19:14, 4 February 2019 (EST) emasik
-But please help! Does anyone else know anymore about when the Brutes joined the Covenant? -[[User:TheLostJedi|'''<span style="color:maroon">TheLostJedi</span>''']] 19:33, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
+== Language ==
-They joined before the Covenant first fought the UNSC on Harvest. [[User:Spartan-016|Spartan-016]] 01:42, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
+Going through the audio logs in ''Halo Infinite'', I noticed that some of the Jiralhanae audio logs are numbered, 1 through 9. They follow the somewhat Latin format, being "Unus", "Duol", "Tres", "Quattuor", "Quinque", "Siks", "Septem", "Octus", and "Novem". Would it be okay to add those to the "Language" section?--[[User:The Ragin Pagan|The Ragin Pagan]] ([[User talk:The Ragin Pagan|talk]]) 11:02, August 13, 2022 (EDT)
-Thank you, that's interesting, it helps anyway, so thank you. :) But just wondering, where did you find out that they were in the Covenant before the Battle of Harvest? -[[User:TheLostJedi|'''<span style="color:maroon">TheLostJedi</span>''']] 15:57, 02 November 2007 (UTC)
-It's assumption based on the fact that in Contact Harvest, their role in the Covenant is very well defined and the Elites deference to them very established. They do not seem like new inductees, especially since they are (rarely) given ships to control, not something a new species would be trusted with. [[User:InnerRayg|InnerRayg]] 17:21, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
-Ok, so they were in the Covenant before the Battle of Harvest... I'm a little confused though, what were their roles/responsibilities in the Covenant? -[[User:TheLostJedi|'''<span style="color:maroon">TheLostJedi</span>''']] 13:25, 03 November 2007 (UTC)
-I might classify them as hard labor or a beefed up version of "cannon fodder". Elites fear their rank-climbing tendencies and try to subvert them at every moment, so I would doubt that besides a few they have any special treatment at all. They rank above Grunts and Jackals, but this probably has more to do with the fact that any of those creatures would make nothing more then a tasty snack for the Brute if it really got angry. [[User:InnerRayg|InnerRayg]] 13:30, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
-Somehow they just walk into the race, you might as well ask when did the Covenant race started? [[User:Master Chief Petty Officer|'''ΜΆŜΤΈŖČΗέÏΣΡΈΤΤΥОΓΓïČëŗ''']] 13:36, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
-So they were in the Covenant military...
-''They do not seem like new inductees, especially since they are (rarely) given ships to control, not something a new species would be trusted with.''
-About being given ships to control though, is that something the Brutes were allowed to do around the time of the Battle of Harvest? Or did they gain that responsibility later? -[[User:TheLostJedi|'''<span style="color:maroon">TheLostJedi</span>''']] 11:01, 04 November 2007 (UTC)
-Eh, nevermind I guess =P Thank you a lot everyone anyway, what was said was very helpful. -[[User:TheLostJedi|'''<span style="color:maroon">TheLostJedi</span>''']] 03:49, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
-== Halo 2 Brutes ==
-If we can get them, I think we need correct pictures for each Brute rank in Halo 2 along with their Halo 3 versions. I for one had difficulty telling them apart in 2, so this'd make it easier.
-== Brute Strength? ==
-How strong do you think a brute is? The minor ones are probably on par with the MC [around 4 tons], but some of those older/higher ranking ones seem to put the MC to shame strength wise [i.e Tartarus was described as having the muscle to kill a hunter: First Strike: Page 339].
-That strengh could probably have killed the MC, I mean, lifting half a ton with one hand. Aren't they stronger then Elites? [[User:Master Chief Petty Officer|'''ΜΆŜΤΈŖČΗέÏΣΡΈΤΤΥОΓΓïČëŗ''']] 11:08, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
-Brutes are always known for their excessive strength and resilience. In a hand to hand fight they will always win against a Spartan in a pure physical challenge, and since Elites are analogous to Spartan strength, it can be assumed Brutes are stronger than them as well. They are nearly a foot bigger than an Elite anyway...
-Yes Brutes are very strong and not even 4 Assault rifles (half empty) can kill one. But Master Chief killed one with his bare hands. (note: this is the one that had 4 half empty Assault rifles fired on him.) He did this by getting the Brute on 1 hand, with the other behind his back, on the floor and sitting on top of him. Then the Brute started to get up and Master Chief primed a grenade, then put it under the Brute and swiped the Brutes arm, the one holding him up, out from under him. Next the frag went off lifting them both up, but it did not blow the whole way through the Brute. Then Master Chief killed the other 2 Brutes.(Yes there were 2 other Brutes and no he didn't use his bare hands to kill them.)
-Brutes are stronger than both elites and spartans as the are able to kill a hunter with melees in halo 2,but one strange thing is that a brute needs around 5-7 melees to kill you in halo 2 when berserking but a minor elite can kill you with one melee on normal,but this could possibly be explained by that the elites are more agile and intelligent and trough that are able to hit much more critical points on the body.
-SPARTAN 456
-== One of the Brute quotes==
-"The rest of the Sangheili will live as our slaves!"
-It says in the article that it's only been heard on one level: I've heard it on the Covenant.  Also interesting as it's the only time I can remember Covenant language names being used in the games. [[User:Gruntyking117|Gruntyking117]] 04:34, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
-im sure i heard one brute say "damn you, you bastard"
-i heard that a brute said this when i died "ding dong the demon is dead" grunts say it also
-==Relief==
-Anyone notice how on The Ark Level, in the room where all the grunts are sleeping you can see a brute going to the bathroom? I saw him doing that and melee'd him in the back while he was busy.
-[[User:Covenant Ghost|Covenant Ghost]] 16:58, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
-Yeah, he is referred to as the [[Urinating Brute]], he's found on every level of difficulty, I chose just to stick him with a grenade.
-[[User:Spartansniper450|Spartansniper450]] 16:15, 20 May 2008
-== Changes ==
-I fixed a little wordiness, and I'd like to call into question the Brutes religious qualities. Whoever edited the article to say they were none-believers has clearly not taken into account the cheiftan's devotion and blind loyalty to the Prophets. [[User:ProphetofTruth|ProphetofTruth]] 04:20, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
-== Culture ==
-I cleared up the Culture section, expanding and clarifying it as well as sourcing it. Seriously, I don't even HAVE Contact Harvest and I could still source it! I changed that ridiculous statement about Brutes being non-believers because it is repeatedly stated that they are fanatics, and added some stuff about their society. '''[[User:Specops306|<font color=purple>Kora ‘Morhek]]</font>''' ''[[User talk:Specops306|<font color=blue>The Battle-Net</font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Specops306|<font color=purple>My Conquests.</font>]]'' 07:11, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
-== brute bones ==
-near the end of flood gate when you go in the crashed flood ship there are some bones on the floor i thought they were elite bones but someone told me they were brute bones.i could get a pic if you want
-[[User:Haos master|Haos master]] 04:51, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
-Sure. '''[[User:Specops306|<font color=purple>Specops306]]</font>''', '''''[[User talk:Specops306|<font color=blue>Kora]]</font> [[Special:Contributions/Specops306|<font color=purple>'Morhek</font>]]''''' 21:03, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
-They are Brute bones you can find them in [[Cortana (level)|Cortana]] too. [[User:Spartansniper450|Spartansniper450]]
-== Pronunciation ==
-Until recently, I pronounced Jiralhanae with the J at the beginning. But in Halo 3, the new Elite type for some reason pronounces it with a '''Z''' at the beginning, as in "Ziralhanae". Should that be in the article? '''[[User:Specops306|<font color=purple>Specops306]]</font>''', '''''[[User talk:Specops306|<font color=blue>Kora]]</font> [[Special:Contributions/Specops306|<font color=purple>'Morhek</font>]]''''' 21:04, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
-I don't remember any of the races referring to the Brutes by their Elite given names, although I do remember Sangheili being said.  Where/when/how did you remember this happening? [[User:Gruntyking117|Gruntyking117]] 19:35, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
-It was on [[The Covenant (Level)]], in the third tower after I'd finished off the Hunters. The same Elite also calls them Lekgolo - don't worry, ''that'' name at least is how we thought it would be. It was the newer Halo 3 Elite, not the David Scully Elite. '''[[User:Specops306|<font color=purple>Specops306]]</font>''', '''''[[User talk:Specops306|<font color=blue>Kora]]</font> [[Special:Contributions/Specops306|<font color=purple>'Morhek</font>]]''''' 19:39, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
-On that same level, they call the Drones by their Elite given name, ''Yanme'e''. Though I've only noticed it on [[The Covenant]]. - [[User:Xenos Dawn|<font face="verdana">'''Xenos '''<font color="blue">'''''Dawn'''''</font></font>]]
-== Gravity ==
-The gravity for Doisac was stated as 2.0g when the Halo 3 collectors edition book states it as 2.1g [[User:Halo destroyer2|Halo destroyer2]] 10:09, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
-==Weird Helmet Wearing Brute (With Fuel Rod)==
-Here's a pic I took. I was doing The Covenant under the Normal Difficulty. I went back and reviewed my run in the theatre and saw this Brute.
-That is referred to as a [[War Chieftain]] they could rank higher than normal chieftains but thats not confirmed yet. [[User:Spartansniper450|Spartansniper450]]
-[[Image:24794522-Full.jpg|thumb|Brute]]
-== Random Somthing ==
-I'm not sure if anyone cares but the word in the trivia section written in Korean doesn't exactly mean "stupid crazy lunatic"...
-==How is it pronounced?==
-Jee-rul-hunee? [[User:Merda|Merda]] 11:25, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
-Jeh-Rehl-Ah-Nay [[User:71.65.10.47|71.65.10.47]] 00:40, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
-== Post-Covenant ==
-I think it's a bit unlikely that the tattered UNSC destroyed the "remnants" of the Brutes. As far as we know, the Brute home-world is fully intact, and that alone is home to over 10 billion Brutes (completely outnumbering the humans). The most likely case scenario is that they "signed" some sort of armistice, at least speculatively speaking, which is the case. [[User:Will|Will]]
-It's also possible that the Elites decided to just glass their home-world and be done with it. [[User:Demonic Knight|Demonic Knight]]
-i doubt any easy solution is taken to solve the conflict it would be bad for possible games down the road .its more likely that the civil war is still going and that the elites
-and brutes are still fighting. and the other races are split down the middle on their home worlds trying to side who to back .jakles are more like pirates I doubt they care to much but if they picked a side it would be the brutes. hunters are more loyal to elites based on culture and don’t seem to believe to deep into the religion of the covenant. the bugs I forget their name are loyal to the prophets seeing how they have a hive mind set . im assuming grunts will side with brutes out of fear and hate for elites at least in majority .im sure they humans are just out of the war because their preoccupied with each other have and needing fleet to protect each sides home worlds and fight each other. and having a crippled fleet at that.meaning they whont send masses of fleet far of to fight humans .
-it says in the book harvest that it was against the rules of the covenant to give high level tech (specific not so quite high tech (also not completely done reading the book so this might change))to the brutes. Meaning they majority of their more sophisticated covenant tech was acquired during halo 2 .this was a precaution taken by the eliets and agreed upon by the prophets and high council. At least until they proved them self.. This means they would most likely be unable to build new tech unless the engineers helped them are they took the time to acquire and start reproducing the tech. (End of comment from unknown user).
-(Start of new comment): The Jackles and Drones sided with the Brutes, there are Grunts and Hunters on both sides of the conflict.
-== Jiralhanae means "asshole" in Korean. ==
-Yup, that's it. Just thought I'd let you know. [[User:71.65.10.47|71.65.10.47]] 00:42, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
-Actually, it means stupid lunatic in Korean...
-:P [[User:ImperatorExercitus|<font color="red">Invincible</font>]][[User talk:ImperatorExercitus|<font color="blue">General</font>]][[Special:Contributions/ImperatorExercitus|<font color="green">Die!</font>]][[Image:Sentinel_Firing.jpg|28px]] 00:47, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
-Whatever. As far I know, the meaning is pretty much the same as far as swear words go. In any case, we know about Bungie's little joke. --<b>[[User:Dragonclaws|<font color="#4D56B1">Dragon<font color="#F28500">c</font>laws</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Dragonclaws|<font color="#4D56B1">talk</font>]])</sup></b> 19:15, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
-== Carriers of the Flame quote? ==
-I don't remember ever hearing Tartarus say "We are the Chosen Carriers of the flame." Is it from the end-of-game battle? -- '''[[CoH|<font color=purple>Councillor</font>]] [[User:Specops306|<font color=blue>Specops306</font>]]''' - '''''[[User Talk:Specops306|<font color=blue>Kora</font>]] [[Special:Editcount/Specops306|<font color=purple>'Morhek</font>]]''''' 04:15, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
-== Brute pics ==
-I think the article can be better if someone were to put pics of all the ranks from all the games and put them on the article.  Can not be me for I do not have an x-box and on the computer I have to play in safe mode.
-[[User:DilaBagomee|DilaBagomee]]
-== Editing ==
-Please check out the last item in the Trivia section, as its statements have no reference indicated. Since I don't know if it's true or not, I left it there, correcting only a word. [[User:Felix-157|Felix-157]] 00:29, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
-== VANDALISM ==
-I'd like to bring to the attention of moderators and admins that this page was recently vandalised by Pvt.Cheese. I have reverted the information to its prior state before tampering. [[User:A Monument to All Your Sins|A Monument to All Your Sins]] 14:39, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
-== 9.2 ==
-Who put their height as 9.2? --[[User:Lord Lycan|Lord Lycan]] 06:34, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
-== Dead Page ==
-This page is dying, and there's nothing we can do about it! [[User Talk:Kougermasters|<span style="color: DarkOliveGreen; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 120%;">Lieutenant</span>]] [[Special:Editcount/Kougermasters|<span style="color: SeaGreen; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 120%;">Commander</span>]] [[User:Kougermasters|<span style="color: MediumPurple; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 120%;">Kouger</span><span style="color: DarkOrchid; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 120%;">masters</span>]] 17:31, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
-== Strange weapon spawn? ==
-I was on theater and I saw a Battle Rifle fall out of adestroyed Banshee.I was on The Covenant at the time.
-== Halo Wars Brute ==
-The Brute Chieftan picture from Halo wars looks kinda like an old Brute geezer. :P lolZ