Editing Halopedia talk:Layout guide

== Regarding "List of Appearances" section ==

I think it's best to list them according to their media category rather than according to their first appearance. Such order makes much more sense given that we now have indicators such as <small>(First appearance)</small> and <small>(First mentioned)</small>. This is because when the Layout guide was first presented, we didn't have such indicators. — <span style="font-size:16px; font-family:OrbitronMedium;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span>  19:23, 11 May 2012 (EDT)
:I've always been annoyed when I see an article with a list showing the item's first appearance being halfway down the list. It doesn't make sense to me to have ''The Fall of Reach'' being listed below other things such as ''Halo 4'' when it has a first appearance tag. In my opinion, it's more professional to list media items in order of release date. For anyone who doesn't know what were talking about, these are the two current formats used on Halopedia.

<big>'''Release date format'''</big>
*''[[Halo: The Fall of Reach]]'' {{1st}}
*''[[Halo 2]]''
*''[[Halo 3]]''
*''[[Halo 4]]''

<big>'''Media category'''</big>
*''[[Halo 2]]''
*''[[Halo 3]]''
*''[[Halo 4]]''
*''[[Halo: The Fall of Reach]]'' {{1st}}

:Which one looks the best?-- '''''[[User:Spartacus|<span style="color: olivedrab; font-family: Bradley Hand ITC; font-size: 12pt;">'''Col. Spartacus'''</span>]]''' <sup>[[User talk:Spartacus|<font color="Black">'''Talk Page'''</font>]]</sup> <sub>[[Special:Contributions/Spartacus|<font color="Black">Contributions</font>]]''</sub> 19:38, 11 May 2012 (EDT)
::I'd have to agree that sorting it by release chronology looks the best, plus it just makes sense for it to be at the top. {{User:Grizzlei/Sig}}
::I prefer the media category format as it looks more organised. The release date format looks messy once the list gets larger and longer. For example, compare [[UNSC_frigate#List_of_appearances|UNSC Frigate's List of appearances section]] which utilises the release date format and Scarab's List of appearances section which utilises the media category format.— <span style="font-size:16px; font-family:OrbitronMedium;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span>  20:08, 11 May 2012 (EDT)
:::I can't really see how it looks messy. Neither of the formats look messy to me. The thing that annoys me is seeing the ''First Strike'' halfway down the list with the <small>First appearance</small> tag. Oh well, if we change to a media format, I can get over it.-- '''''[[User:Spartacus|<span style="color: olivedrab; font-family: Bradley Hand ITC; font-size: 12pt;">'''Col. Spartacus'''</span>]]''' <sup>[[User talk:Spartacus|<font color="Black">'''Talk Page'''</font>]]</sup> <sub>[[Special:Contributions/Spartacus|<font color="Black">Contributions</font>]]''</sub> 20:15, 11 May 2012 (EDT)
::::It looks messy for the reason being that it jumps from one media type to another media type.— <span style="font-size:16px; font-family:OrbitronMedium;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span>  20:23, 11 May 2012 (EDT)

Ugh, I hate changing opinions. :P Given a lot of things in the universe have a respectable appearance list, couldn't we just use a scroll box and use a small font, then section them off into "GAMES", "LITERATURE/COMICS," and "OTHER" using both media separation and chronological release? For example:

<small>
{{col-begin}}
{{col-3}}
'''GAMES'''
*''[[Halo: Combat Evolved]]''
**''[[Halo: Combat Evolved Anniversary]]''
*''[[Halo 2]]''
*''[[Halo 3]]''
*''[[Halo: Reach]]''
*''[[Halo 4]]''
{{col-3}}
'''LITERATURE'''
*''[[Halo: The Fall of Reach]]'' {{1st}}
*''[[Halo: The Flood]]''
*''[[Halo: First Strike]]''
*''[[Halo Graphic Novel]]''
**''[[Breaking Quarantine]]''
*''[[Halo: Ghosts of Onyx]]''
*''[[Halo: Uprising]]''
*''[[Halo: Evolutions - Essential Tales of the Halo Universe]]''
**''[[The Mona Lisa]]'' {{mo}}
**''[[Palace Hotel]]''
**''[[Human Weakness]]''
*''[[Halo: Helljumper]]''
*''[[Halo: Fall of Reach]]''
**''[[Halo: Fall of Reach - Boot Camp|Boot Camp]]''
**''[[Halo: Fall of Reach - Covenant|Covenant]]''
**''[[Halo: Fall of Reach - Invasion|Invasion]]''
*''[[Halo: Glasslands]]'' {{Mo}}
{{col-3}}
'''OTHER'''
*''[[Halo Legends]]''
**''[[Origins]]''
**''[[Homecoming]]''
**''[[Odd One Out]]'' {{C|Non-canon appearance}}
**''[[The Package (animated short)|The Package]]''
*''[[Halo 4: Forward Unto Dawn]]''
{{col-end}}
</small>

:Perhaps without the scroll box? The appearances template received negative feedbacks because of that. :P — <span style="font-size:16px; font-family:OrbitronMedium;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span>  20:23, 11 May 2012 (EDT)
::I just updated it above and it doesn't look all too bad. {{User:Grizzlei/Sig}}
:::Actually, I really like sorting the appearances like that. Only, perhaps just for pages with more than 7-10 items on the list?-- <span style="color: #7BA05B; font-weight:bold; font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"><tt>KEEP IT CLEAN</tt></span> <sup>[[User talk:Spartacus|<font color="Black"><u>'''Comm Line'''</u></font>]]</sup> <sub>[[Special:Contributions/Spartacus|<font color="Black"><u>'''Transmissions'''</u></font>]]</sub> 20:43, 11 May 2012 (EDT)

What were the negative complaints of the scroll box on? I don't think it looks bad that way. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 20:37, 11 May 2012 (EDT)
:Well, "negative complaints" and "negative feedback" is somewhat too strong. It's more of a redundant feature. As Jugus commented, the template ''"isn't all that necessary since the titles need to be fully written anyways."'' — <span style="font-size:16px; font-family:OrbitronMedium;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span>  20:45, 11 May 2012 (EDT)

I don't really see the problem with listing appearances in order of release date. Does the media type really even matter that much here? Appearance lists are chiefly about listing the subject's appearances rather than cataloging different types of media. As for having different sections for different media types, it looks nice but I can't help but feel it's a needlessly complicated way to present something that's ultimately very simple. Chronological order works the best for me.--[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 08:49, 13 May 2012 (EDT)

:Guess you're right. :) — <span style="font-size:16px; font-family:OrbitronMedium;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span>  11:13, 13 May 2012 (EDT)
::Well said, Jugus.-- <span style="color: #7BA05B; font-weight:bold; font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"><tt>KEEP IT CLEAN</tt></span> <sup>[[User talk:Spartacus|<font color="Black"><u>'''Comm Line'''</u></font>]]</sup> <sub>[[Special:Contributions/Spartacus|<font color="Black"><u>'''Transmissions'''</u></font>]]</sub> 11:17, 13 May 2012 (EDT)

== [[User:Subtank/Update#Layout|Another one of those updates]] ==

Per above. Just a tiny update. The standards for layout of specific articles will be updated accordingly once this update is implemented.— <span style="font-size:14px; font-family:Arial;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span>  16:44, 26 September 2013 (EDT)

==On game features in appearance lists==
Since [[User talk:Sith Venator/Cheat Sheet|we're on the subject of defining what our appearance lists should include]], I've noticed a mild issue with the listing of game features, e.g. ''Spartan Ops'' or terminals. Namely, with our current format it's impossible to determine whether a subject only appears in a given feature, or the rest of the game also.

For example, [[Faber]] only appears in the ''Halo 4'' terminals, and his appearance list looks like this:

*''[[Halo 4]]''
**''[[Terminal (Halo 4)|Terminals]]''

Meanwhile, the [[Ur-Didact]] appears in both the game proper ''and'' in the terminals, and his appearance list is identical because the list's format doesn't allow us to make a distinction between appearances in the feature only and appearances in both the feature and the rest of the game. Could we use something like the appearance type identifiers (e.g. First appearance, Mentioned only) to indicate when a subject ''only'' appears in a given feature? Or should we list every major aspect of the game (Campaign, Multiplayer, Terminals, and game modes like Spartan Ops) as their own bullet points? This would also allow us to categorize the appearances more specifically but at the same time, it would also inflate the list—perhaps too much. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 12:45, 19 March 2014 (EDT)

-

I have a solution which shouldn't be too painful to implement or look at. If the subject ''only'' appears in a feature and not the main body of the work, the feature will not be listed as a sub-bullet point but rather a bracketed note. Like so:

*''[[Halo 4]]'' {{C|[[Terminal (Halo 4)|Terminals]] only}}

or

*''[[Halo 4]]'' {{C|[[Spartan Ops]] only}}

or

*''[[Halo: The Fall of Reach]]'' {{C|2010 Adjunct only}}

If the subject appears in ''both the main work and the feature'', use a sub-bullet point:

*''[[Halo 4]]''
**''[[Terminals]]''

*''[[Halo: First Strike]]''
**''[[Petra]]''

I'm thinking we could also use a {{C|multiplayer only}} (or, in the case of ''Halo 4'', {{C|War Games only}}) note if the subject ''only'' appears in MP—it would make the list more informative—although listing it as a bulleted feature under the game's entry in case the subject appears in both campaign and MP would be pointless. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 11:19, 5 May 2014 (EDT)
:I agree with the above proposal. This has been needed for quite a while and it will go lengths to simplify these appearance lists.--{{User:Spartacus/Sig}} 11:43, 5 May 2014 (EDT)

==Appearance lists and reference documents==
I recently realized there doesn't really seem to be a good reason for us omitting reference documents (e.g. the Encyclopedia and the visual guides) from our appearance lists. For one, ''Wookieepedia'', often considered a gold standard for fan wikis since they mostly have their standards figured out, lists them. I see the logic in this, keeping in mind the entire point of the list which is to provide information on works in which the subject appears. Also, to illustrate one issue generated by our current standard, we have a number of subjects that were first mentioned in the ''Encyclopedia''. Yet, because we omit the book from appearance lists, another piece of media will end up with the "first mention" tag on the list instead. Yeah, you could say it's the first mention in media outside reference documents, but I still think it's an arbitrary and unnecessary omission. The only counterargument I can think of is that the ''Encyclopedia'' would end up on most of our pages' appearance lists, but that's hardly a problem. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 12:45, 19 March 2014 (EDT)
:To clarify, this would extend the appearance lists' criteria of inclusion to all identifiable media; that is to say, media that ''we have an article for'' - including Waypoint series like ''[[The Anatomy of Halo]]''. Simple one-off online features wouldn't count, though I'm tempted to include [[Xbox.com/Halo|the original Xbox.com Halo website]] for the sheer amount of things it introduced. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 12:34, 6 May 2014 (EDT)

== A few minor amendments ==

The following amendments/additions are proposed to improve articles viewed on mobile theme:

*With regard to placement of thumbnails, quotes and "Main article" templates, it is suggested that in every section, the "Main article" templates goes first followed by the thumbnail and concluded with the quote. This format looks best in mobile theme.
::To clarify, it should appear in such order in "Edit mode":
<pre>
== About Blah ==
{{Main|Blah blah}}
[[File.Blah.jpg|thumb|Blah caption]]
{{Quote|Blah!}}
</pre>
*Navboxes no longer work in mobile theme, which is for the better in my opinion. However, this means that readers are no longer able to navigate the wiki as they would in desktop mode. It is suggested that we should promote the use of "Related pages" at the end of every article.
*Galleries need to be trimmed to the most relevant. Linkboxes, which are functional in mobile theme, will assist readers in redirecting them to the Gallery page if they want to see more images. See comment on sixth bullet point about Linkbox usage.
*Columns should be limited to two. Columns of three does not work well in mobile theme.
*Editors should avoid using bullet-points in infoboxes as text in infoboxes in mobile themes are centered by default. Centered bullet-points aren't a pretty sight.
*[[Template:Linkbox|Linkbox]] should be added to every article, if applicable, whenever possible. Without it, mobile users are unlikely to be able to navigate around the wiki as efficiently as they would using desktop mode. This template should be placed under the Trivia section, or in the Gallery section if there is no Trivia section.

These are my findings after spending some time on mobile theme. What do you think? — <span style="font-size:14px; font-family:Arial;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span>  13:35, 19 July 2014 (EDT)

:Adding more to the list. — <span style="font-size:14px; font-family:Arial;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span>  02:48, 22 July 2014 (EDT)
::{{Like}} - This has my approval.--{{User:Spartacus/Sig}} 11:11, 22 July 2014 (EDT)
:Added another to the list. — <span style="font-size:14px; font-family:Arial;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span>  12:04, 24 July 2014 (EDT)