Forum:Rumour: Halo 2 Anniversary

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Let's talk about this rumour.

According to a member of NeoGAF who claims to be an industry insider, Halo 5 is being delayed until 2015 so that 343 can continue working on it, while Saber Interactive and Certain Affinity will instead release Halo 2 Anniversary as a stopgap, featuring a multiplayer beta for Halo 5, access to a live-action miniseries ala Forward Unto Dawn, and the possibility of an altered ending.

"I think H:CEA proved the concept was viable."

And to be perfectly honest, I could not be HAPPIER.

I was a bit wary of the original Halo Anniversary when I heard about it - Halo: Combat Evolves was, to me, such a perfect game, still visually breathtaking (remember coming out of that tunnel in the Warthog to see rolling green hills), and perfectly playable. But in the end, I was surprised by how well it turned out. I did have some minor quibbles. The Forerunner architecture was way overcomplicated, but then I get why they did it - to get us used to the new architectural "language" of Halo 4. But on the whole, I thoroughly enjoyed it. I was playing it a few days ago, and found it just as fun as it was back when I first played it. I think H:CEA proved the concept was viable.

But of all the Halo games that deserve (some would say need) a remake, Halo 2 tops my list.

"the Sacred Icon and Quarantine Zone levels were spectacular and epic"

I love Halo 2. I know people who think that was where the Halo games started to go wrong for them, and that Halo 3 fixed things to a degree. For me, it's exactly the opposite impression - Halo 2 was a daring exploration of the universe, while Halo 3 played things too safe and generic. I still lament the reduction of the Arbiter to a sidekick. I thought the campaign was brilliant, and that the level design was interesting. Not to mention we got to see so much new stuff! ODSTs! Brutes! Frigates and Carriers! A new Halo! High Charity! And as much as people hate fighting the Flood, I thought the Sacred Icon and Quarantine Zone levels were spectacular and epic, and that Gravemind was atmospheric and moody.

So there's that.

Unfortunately, Halo 2 is also a game that has some serious technical issues. For one thing, the levels were, to my mind oddly, divided into smaller chunks. The New Mombasa levels could easily be merged. As could the Gas Refinery, Delta Halo, and Library levels. I did like the splitting of the High Charity and Control room levels, because it feels like a culmination. From memory, it was done to save space on the disc. I don't really know how that would work, or whether my mind is just playing tricks on me. And my memories of playing will forever be marred by the irritation incurred by by what I can only describe as image ghosts lingering, with one scene superimposed over the screen until I restarted the level, and sometimes after.

There are also some gameplay issues that I have a problem with. Firstly, the Elite hitbox caused by the hunching for multiplayer. Secondly, dual wielding - I never liked it, and I think Bungie was wise to drop it after Halo 3. Thirdly, the Flood have never been tougher or more irritating to fight than in Halo 2 - people accuse the Brutes of being damage sponges? Try Flood combat forms. As much as I love those levels, I think Halo 2 missed the mark with the Flood, but got it right with Halo 3. I'm sure there are others, but those are the ones that stand out for me.

So what is the point I'm trying to get across?

"Wincott's choice not to participate in Halo 3 was a huge blow for me"

That I would be not only fine with, but enthusiastic for 343, Saber and CA to go further with Halo 2, and not just graphically update the environments and character and object models, but to go ahead for a full-on remake of Halo 2 - fix some of those gameplay issues, adjust the environments as necessary, tweak enemy numbers and behaviours and weapon stats. Of course, I would absolutely prefer it if they kept the original voices, especially Michael Wincott's original Prophet of Truth, but I don't know if it could be done without necessarily recording new dialogue for new behaviours. Wincott's choice not to participate in Halo 3 was a huge blow for me, because he was one of the best parts of Halo 2 - he made Truth seemed machiavellian and elaborate, while Stamp's version seems more genuinely religiously zealous - both good performances, but I prefer the Wincott interpretation of the character.

It would be an ambitious undertaking, certainly, especially for a property as much-beloved as Halo 2 was. And there are dangers inherent in it - the original post mentions the possibility of a new ending, which I think would be a misstep. For better or worse, the ending of Halo 2 is iconic. I could see it working if they added a post-credits scene of Johnson, Miranda and the Arbiter heading off to Earth, perhaps, or meeting with Buck and Dare to tie it to the end of ODST.

"we could see the centuries-long corruption of Penitent Tangent by the Gravemind"

And the opportunity for Terminals is incredibly exciting - you have the chance to perhaps show Regret's brief occupation of New Mombasa, and perhaps his decision to leave. You can continue the story of how the Heretic Leader Sesa 'Refumee met Guilty Spark, and how it inspired his rebel movement. The lead-up to the Great Schism. Or, most intriguingly of all, we could see the centuries-long corruption of Penitent Tangent by the Gravemind. It would also be an opportunity to get some of the classic voice actors back - the ever-fantastic Keith David to reprise his role as the Arbiter, Robin Atkin Downes as the Prophet of Regret, and Dee Bradley Baker as the Gravemind.

File:Containment1.jpg

"remake classic Halo 2 maps that haven't had the treatment yet"

The source claims that Halo 5 will also feature the original multiplayer, though I'm a bit iffy on the idea of releasing a popular multiplayer game right before they release another multiplayer game for them to compete with each other. I didn't mind Halo Anniversary being released with the Reach multiplayer and some new maps. But including a multiplayer beta for Halo 5 would be great, tying the remastered game to the next sequel better thematically. For one thing, yes, multiplayer betas have been used more like advertising, generating excitement for the next game. I will admit that. But on the other hand, there were serious issues with Halo 4's multiplayer, and I doubt 343 wouldn't want to try and get it right this time around. Secondly, you could do it in a way that paid tribute to Halo 2 while still functioning as a beta test - use the Halo 2 MJOLNIR model for the character model, and remake classic Halo 2 maps that haven't had the treatment yet, or set them in environments we explored in Halo 2.

Normally, I would be at the forefront of the crowd saying "leave it alone, it's perfect as it is." But unlike Halo 1, I just don;'t feel that way for Halo 2. There is room for improving the Halo 2 experience. And I'm okay with that!

Comments?

I agree, Halo 2 deserves to be remade rather than just reprinted. On the story side, I think there's A LOT of plot holes that need to be addressed. Such as:

• How did the Prophet of Regret know where Delta Halo was? If he knew about it before his fleet went to Earth, why didn't he just go there first?
• Cortana asked to be left behind so she could detonate In Amber Clad just in case Tartarus activated Delta Halo. Which he did. So why didn't she blow up the ship when that happened?
• Inversely, how would she have been able to blow up the ship at all without Miranda Keyes' neural interface?
• When the Arbiter caught up to Sesa Refumee, why didn't Sesa just climb into the Seraph and blow him to pieces? When he summoned Guilty Spark as his proof, why did he shoot the Arbiter rather than let him listen to Guilty Spark and thus convert him to his cause?
• Why didn't Regret know Earth was populated? Shouldn't his luminary tipped him off to the absurdly high human population there?
• Why did the Prophet of Truth replace the Elites with Brutes? He supposedly wanted more obedient servants, but the Elites were obeying them fine and they were 90% there to lighting the rings anyway.
• Why did Miranda Keyes go retrieve the Index herself when as an officer she should be staying safe aboard the ship so the leadership won't be killed?
• If Tartarus' gravity hammer has gravity manipulation powers that let him incapacitate any foe, why didn't he use those during your boss fight against him?
• If John can plug Cortana into any system just by tapping his hand to it in this game, how come he always manually pulls out her chip in the later games?
• If all the Halos were put on standby by Delta Halo's firing being canceled, then why do they all still have to charge when Truth activates them in Halo 3? Shouldn't they have all already been charged and thus fired instantly?
• Why did the Forerunner Dreadnought jump out of slipspace in Earth's solar system when it could have just jumped straight to the surface? Did Truth feel like taking a tour?

Also, something needs to be done to New Mombasa's architecture to make it fit in better with ODST's layout. /endrant Tuckerscreator^(stalk) 21:48, 29 January 2014 (EST)

Regarding Delta Halo, I thought ODST made it clear that he found the coordinates while starting the digging for the artefact under New Mombasa? As for Earth, I also thought it was clear that the coordinates to Earth were found on Sigma Octanus, and that the only reason they didn't jump there immediately was because the future Arbiter needed the ships to take out Reach.

Regarding Cortana - yeah, I think that would be fascinating to see exactly what happened there. Did the Gravemind stop her before she could try? Did she try and fail? Was she lying for some reason?

And regarding the Schism, the Conversations from the Universe booklet makes it clear that the Elites have begun questioning the Prophets. Plus, Contact Harvest makes it clear that the Prophets have always known that the Great Journey was a fraud, and Truth's plan is to fire the Halos and rebuild the galaxy in his image, a plan the Elites would never go along with when they realised the extent of the deception, while the Brutes were either naive enough to accept Truth's lies, or cynical and brutal enough to approve of Truth's plan.

Other than that, I don't know if the rest of the plot holes you mentioned really need addressing - some of them are just for dramatic convenience, while others are just ideas that Bungie decided to drop. The chip especially - they brought that back to hark back to Combat Evolved. I was disappointed, because I thought the Halo 2 version of that was pretty cool. -- Qura 'Morhek ^{The Autocrat of Morheka} 02:55, 30 January 2014 (EST)

Regret didn't manage any digging when he arrived in New Mombasa. We get a bird's eye of the area when dropping to his ship and all there is is a small crater that forms when he jumps into slipspace. Maybe Truth sent him the coordinates when his own troops that arrived the day after got a closer look at the Portal, but I don't see why he'd do so. We know that Truth knew where Earth was, due to the fleet he assembled as the Unyielding Hierophant, but Regret obviously didn't learn it from the same source or else he would have brought more ships. As for Contact Harvest, I'll have to read it. Got a chance to over this weekend. Tuckerscreator^(stalk) 03:56, 30 January 2014 (EST)

Sorry, I mixed up Contact Harvest with another story, from one of the rereleases of the Evolutions anthology where a dying Prophet confesses his sins as High Charity falls. Contact Harvest does make clear that the Prophets knew the Great Journey wouldn't bring salvation for all. Wages of Sin clarifies that the Prophets knew the Great Journey was an outright lie, but they continued to perpetuate it for their purposes - the only conclusion, then, is that they want to activate the rings for another reason.

In addition, I thought the point of the Drones under the data centre, building their hives, was that they were starting the digging? It was only when Mickey and Dutch blew up the building above them that they were stirred up. When you see Truth entering the Dreadnought, he does so from what looks like the remnants of the data centre, having been excavated further. I'm also unconvinced that Truth knew that Earth was populated - if you have located your religion's most important "holy relic", you're naturally going to send a huge fleet to secure it, regardless of whether you expect anyone to be there, if only for ceremonial purposes, important to the Elites, and make sure it's safe. I got the impression Regret's force was scraped together quickly in the aftermath of the Unyeilding Hierophant incident, and they still had no idea Earth was populated.

Maybe I'm reading more into it than is there? -- Qura 'Morhek ^{The Autocrat of Morheka} 05:45, 30 January 2014 (EST)

I would prefer the gameplay content of Halo 2 untouched, just like how Halo Anniversary kept the gameplay content of Halo: Combat Evolved intact (though it is based off the PC version and not the Xbox version). That being said, I would prefer a remastered Halo 2 than a Halo 2 remake: update the graphics, optimize the game engine, and leave out the graphical switch gimmick.Halo 2 has its ups and downs but that's what makes the game Halo 2: changing it will ruin it forever.— subtank 19:30, 30 January 2014 (EST)

I'm one of the few people in the "leave it as it is" crowd. Whether it's a visual revamp like CEA or a full-on remake, the visual style is such a big part of the experience for me that drastically changing it will distract me from properly enjoying a graphical overhaul. It's the same game, kind of, but it's like it's been tampered with somehow and often not in a good way - like the game equivalent of uncanny valley. That, and in CEA's case, the haphazard use of models without regard to stylistic consistency (hello pilot model with Halo 3 Marine armor), the amateurish animations, inexplicable cinematic camera angle changes and above all, the visuals not matching with the original level geometry, did help produce the effect. And I don't think I've still forgiven them for that horrendous redesign of the Halo ring.

I also fear that if Halo 2 is remade, they'll use the Halo 4 models for the Covenant species and most other assets, practically invalidating their own canon excuses for the differences. I could be wrong, but I can easily see that happening. And while I admit that an "extended cut" version with all the plot holes resolved, near-mythic cut levels like Forerunner Tank and Forerunner Ship recreated in all their glory might be awesome enough to alleviate my other concerns, I doubt that's ever going to happen for a game that's still essentially a side project probably outsourced to a different studio. I don't know. Maybe I've just become a hopeless cynic. But it helps prepare for the worst and makes pleasant surprises all the more enjoyable. --Jugus (Talk | Contribs) 00:06, 31 January 2014 (EST)

I'd like to throw in here that awhile ago in August of last year, Jessica Shea, or more commonly known as bsangel of 343I mentioned in a tweet that "Halo 2 PC will continue as-is for the time being. You can expect another update in early 2014". Now i'm not saying this could or could be in any way relating to the recent rumors. I have no further comment. Bronzey (talk) 00:24, 31 January 2014 (EST)

HMMMM. -- Qura 'Morhek ^{The Autocrat of Morheka} 21:59, 31 January 2014 (EST)

She said an earlier tweet too about: "I leave for a second and the internet explodes all over me." Maybe she'll be the focus of the next Terminals? Tuckerscreator^(stalk) 22:21, 31 January 2014 (EST)

Given how they treated Guilty Spark, and the development Cortana got in Halo 4, I would be all kinds of pumped for that. And considering they used the H:CEA terminals to tease the return of the Didact and his Prometheans, they could use the Halo 2 Remastered terminals to lay the foundation for the next game - which I've suspected to be the start of the resurrection of Cortana, and the Chief's pursuit of that goal. -- Qura 'Morhek ^{The Autocrat of Morheka} 23:34, 31 January 2014 (EST)

Based off my experiences with HCEA, I wouldn't buy H2A unless it came with some of those features that were integrated in the later Halo titles - campaign theater/scoring/timer/medals and 4 player co-op (especially for H2's impossible legendary difficulty). HCEA was pretty much the same exact game but lacked in so many areas. The game didn't have non of the aforementioned features, it didn't use the original multiplayer engine, and only a few maps were remade [and whataknow, 343i's laziness carried over to Halo 4 as well - no campaign theater and scoring, and sucky maps]. I basically wasted my money buying it and should have waited til the price dropped or bought it used. So if they remake H2 than they need to include those new features to help extend the life of the game rather than just graphical enhancements. Otherwise I'm just buying the exact same game all over again just to "relive" the experience, when I can just pop in the legendary edition copy I already have. So yes, I'll be paying close attention to this to see if 343i delivers (which they've failed to do several times already).--Killamint [Comm|Files] 12:01, 1 February 2014 (EST)

I'll go ahead and state my 2 cents here. If they do make a H2 remake, or remastered or whatever, I hope they leave the majority of the gameplay intact. I really liked the Dual Wielding aspect of the gunplay, and I would love a return of the Spectre. Leave models the same, just updated, and maybe add terminals to cover plot holes, and other things. While the bringing back of Halo 2 multiplayer would be cool, I doudt they'll take the time and effort to accomplished such a thing. They didn't do it for Halo CE, so why should they do it for H2? Anyway, I'll say more, but I've got to go to work. Peace out.Siphon 117 13:05, 1 February 2014 (EST)

I would be very excited to see something like this. You know what could make it better? a little love for PC players. Neither Bungie, not 343i have done very much for us. I hope 343i can push this into a new direction that's more enthusiastic for computer players. --Weeping Angel (talk) 23:22, 11 February 2014 (EST)

Breaking news...

While Steve Downes isn't Microsoft or 343i, what he said in this interview is very interesting. Here is the article. We still can't take this as "official" or anything.--Spartacus ^{Talk • Contribs} 23:10, 13 February 2014 (EST)

I am sooo glad 343i is taking their time with the next HALO 5. --Weeping Angel (talk) 10:55, 14 February 2014 (EST)

So Downes posted this on his Facebook: "I did an interview recently and I'm afraid my comments regarding H2 were misunderstood. Just to clarify; I have no idea and no inside info on if or when there will be an H2 anniversary edition. The only official source for that, that I know of is Waypoint." Tuckerscreator^(stalk) 13:10, 14 February 2014 (EST)

Okay?? Now he's confusing us. @Weeping Angel: If that's true than that would give 343i way more time to fine-tune and polish the game fully, that way we don't have any glitches and silly unbalanced things like the Boltshot. Now one question remains for me personally, do I want the XboxOne...--Killamint [Comm|Files] 13:16, 14 February 2014 (EST)

So apparently it was too good to be true. Thought so...--Spartacus ^{Talk • Contribs} 13:20, 14 February 2014 (EST)

My guess is either one of two things happened. Either he saw the rumours the same way we did, guessed they wouldn't contact him anyway because he didn't have to rerecord anything for H1 Anniversary (to my knowledge), or Microsofts marketing got him to backtrack because he'd let the cat out of the bag because he assumed it was common knowledge. -- Qura 'Morhek ^{The Autocrat of Morheka} 23:30, 14 February 2014 (EST)