Editing Talk:Orbital Drop Shock Troopers

{{Archived}}
==Halo 2 ODSTs==

With the history and equipment of the ODSTs having been extensively elaborated on by now, I'm still more than a little bugged about the absense of many references to the ODST character in Halo 2. As different as they were in appearance to the now traditional standard, one can't help but wonder why they've taken the shaft so quickly. Allow me to elaborate. A common misconception is that the ODSTs in Halo 2 wore an early version of the ODST Battle Armor in H3, H3: ODST, and the various Legend episodes / comics / promotional materials. Some consider it retconned or noncanon since H3: ODST takes place at the same time as H2. Some don't even know there was a difference. I'm here to set that record straight.

The ODSTs in Halo 2 wore identical fatigues as the normal marines at the time. It was cloth, not a vaccuum suit. These fatigues are black and white, but other than that, the seams, the pockets, the camo pattern, and the protective elbow pads are exactly the same. This is a huge difference from the vaccuum protective suit of normal ODSTs. There are many other similarities between regular marines and Helljumpers in H2 too. The shoulder plates are similar. The ODST helmet is a modified version of the normal helmet with only a visor and chinguard added to encapsulate the head. Differences include gloves and the huge shin guards used by those ODSTs. These H2 versions also wear a bulky ballistic vest different from the standard marine chestpiece. So now that we have disproved the rumor that this armor is vaccuum-rated, it can be inferred that with all the similarities, this armor could also likely be allowed to be worn by normal marines and may even have olve-drab colored variations. In fact, Gretchen (Dutch's wife), in the ODST comics, has a green H2 ODST helmet and H2 marine chestpiece in a flashback frame.

So why wouldn't thse ODSTs utilize vaccuum suits after hot-dropping in to combat via HEV? Much like the normally-armored ODSTs in Combat Evolved, it's unknown. It is interesting to note that all of the ODSTs in H2 may have came from In Amber Clad though. Maybe that's all they were supplied with?
At any rate, I hope to start a discussion here about possibly adding a little more information about this variant of the ODST BDU. It's certainly not the same and fills a completely different role and function than the vaccuum-rated body armor suit. --[[User talk:Nerfherder1428|Nerfherder1428]] 20:12, April 25, 2010 (UTC)
{{Quote|The armour worn by the Marines and ODSTs was designed to look as if it was produced by the same culture as the Chief's MJOLNIR powered assault armour, if not necessarily the same manufacturer|Art of Halo 3}}
:The Art of Halo 3 supports the assertion that Bungie simply retconned everything from H:CE and H2, and decided to make sure everything in the Halo Universe has a meaning to their existence, hence why there's massive ''"absense of many references to the ODST character in Halo 2"''. In other words, they want to make everything in the Halo Universe to have a purpose and not purely for gameplay/eye-candy sake like they did in H2. That is also why Bungie had to scrap the old ODST BBA in Halo 2 and update it visually in H3 and technically in H3: ODST. Supporting this statement is also the concept art of the H3's ODSTs and the evolution of their BBA (a concept art of H2's ODST BBA that eventually evolved into the BBA that we see today in H3) that can be seen in the Art of Halo 3 (Page 8).- <font face="Century Gothic">[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></font> 20:42, April 25, 2010 (UTC)

I have a theory... In halo reach it says that the air assault helmet is an ''improvement to the ODST helmet''. I believe that the ODST's in halo 2 were simply wearing this expiramental armour with minimal body protection. The halo 3 era armour is most likely the armour that had always been used where as the halo 2 armour is a expirimental air assault prototype. As for the halo combat evolved ODST's, in the anniversary trailer in the orening cinematic marines seem to be wearing ODST chestplates but with normal marine helmets. This has led me to believe that the original halo graphics were wrong and that they were always wearing the ODST armour. Thank you for taking the time to read my post.--[[User talk:Sierra259|Sierra259]] 15:15, 7 November 2011 (EST)

==ODSTs in Gameplay==
This is something unclear: are the ODSTs in gameplay any different from the marines, graphics excluded? Should this then be mentioned in the Marines (Gameplay) page or should they have their own? Just asking.

[[User talk:PotatoBird|PotatoBird]] 20:15, September 1, 2010 (UTC)
:this needs to be looked at. the article does not specify whether they, in the second and third games, are re-skinned marines. {{User:Asdf1239/sig}} 12:52, 4 December 2010 (EST)

==ODST Recruitment==
The article says that ODSTs are recruited from the special forces branches of all the military services. But the only other special forces units I can find are Spartan. What other branches are there? [[User talk:Iceman117|Iceman117]] 21:35, July 3, 2010 (UTC)

:Presumable the Army, Air Force, Navy and regular Marine Corps maintain their own special forces. Then there are the special forces of the various human countries and colonies, including civilian special forces. -- [[User:Specops306|<b><font  color=indigo>Specops306</font></b>]] [[halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>Qur'a 'Morhek</sup></font></i></u>]] 04:31, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

==ORION==
Why was the trivia about ODSTs being based on the ORION project removed? It came straight from  Halo: Reach Datapad # 11. Whats the reasoning, it's something not many folks are likely to know and relates to this article very directly. [[User talk:SpartanSeries2|SpartanSeries2]] 04:10, September 19, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I put it in there and someone has deleted it. The ODST is based off of the ORION project and this information is in the Halo: Reach game which is part of the actual story. [[User talk:Bugkill|Bugkill]] 16:11, September 20, 2010 (UTC)

:It was deleted because it's already stated in the "Origins" section of the article. No need for another mention of the same thing. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 16:16, September 20, 2010 (UTC)

== "First extra-terrestrial deployment of Marines" ==

The article suggests that the Marine deployment at Argyre Planitia was an orbital drop operation and connected to the inception of the ODSTs, as opposed to the UNSC Marine doctrine as a whole. I checked the timeline entry this supposition is based on, just to be sure. The timeline page on Xbox.com isn't up anymore, but luckily [http://halostory.bungie.org/halostory.timeline.html HBO has a copy]. 

{{Article quote|A series of lightning strikes against Koslovic forces near the Argyre Planitia marked the first extra-terrestrial deployment of Marines. The campaign was an unqualified success. As a result, future military doctrine favored large contingents of Marines for ground assaults and ship-boarding actions.}}

Note the wording "extra-terrestrial"; ''"any object or being beyond (extra-) the planet Earth (terrestrial)"''.

The way I understand this, it's referring to the first time marines were deployed outside Earth. There had been fighting on the Jovian Moons, but marines weren't necessarily involved; they could've just been local UN security forces. Alternatively, it may refer to the first time they were deployed outside a planet's atmosphere, but nowhere does it say it was the first time marines were dropped onto a planet in small pods. It could've been just dropship deployments, so the whole event has more to do with UNSC Marines in general than the origins of the ODSTs.

Not only that, but the article also suggests the existence of a UN Marine Corps separate from the UNSC. The whole organization's existence is questionable at best; See Talk:United Nations Navy. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 07:25, 2 June 2011 (EDT)

==I think that...==
...this page should be moved to "Orbital Drop Shock Trooper'''s'''", since we're describing the organization, not an individual soldier. Note the opening paragraph as well. However, it seems I do not have the power to move this page. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 16:02, 29 September 2012 (EDT)
:Yeah, makes more sense that way.--''[[User:Spartacus|<span style="color:Green; font-weight:bold; font-family:Arial">Spartacus,</span>]]'' ''[[Halopedia:Administrators|<span style="color:DarkGoldenrod; font-weight:bold; font-family:Arial">Halopedia Administrator</span>]]'' <sup>'''[[User talk:Spartacus|<font color="Black">Talk</font>]]'''</sup> 17:11, 29 September 2012 (EDT)
Ah, it seems I cannot change it because of the name already exists as a redirect. Let me switch them. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 17:54, 29 September 2012 (EDT)
:I can delete the redirect.--''[[User:Spartacus|<span style="color:Green; font-weight:bold; font-family:Arial">Spartacus,</span>]]'' ''[[Halopedia:Administrators|<span style="color:DarkGoldenrod; font-weight:bold; font-family:Arial">Halopedia Administrator</span>]]'' <sup>'''[[User talk:Spartacus|<font color="Black">Talk</font>]]'''</sup> 17:56, 29 September 2012 (EDT)
You beat me to the punch! >:( [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 17:59, 29 September 2012 (EDT)

==Absence in Halo 4==
I haven't seen a bit of an ODST during Halo 4 campaign. Can someone confirm that they totally absent from both ''Infinity'' and Ivanoff? If confirmed, I think we have to mention that in the "Trivia" section. <strong>[[User:Lunaramethyst|<span style="font:23px Segoe script; color:darkgreen;">Λ</span>]]</strong><sup>[[User talk:Lunaramethyst|<span style="color:#4C997C">Want to speak ?</span>]]</sup> 08:23, 13 November 2012 (EST)
:There aren't any ODST's aboard ''Infinity'' that we know of, or have seen. The Marines aboard the ship have only been infantry, tankers, and Force Recon and those aboard ''Ivanoff'' were ONI Marines (black armor). {{User:Grizzlei/Sig}}
:I was a little disappointed, ODSTs have been in every Halo game since CE (while only technically in CE, not visually), hopefully they'll make a comeback in Halo 5. [[User:Spartansniper450/IRC Quotes|<span style="color:#000000">''Col.''</span>]] [[User:Spartansniper450|<span style="color:#00416A">Snipes</span>]][[User talk:Spartansniper450|<span style="color:gold">4</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Spartansniper450|<span style="color:silver">50</span>]] 15:01, 13 November 2012 (EST)
::Or we could possibly be seeing the end of the ODST's. They were the baddest of the bad except for the Spartans, whose only major drawback was that there were so few of them. Now that the UNSC is producing Spartans in significant numbers, ODST's may no longer be necessary. Perhaps in the post-war UNSC, the best-of-the-best don't become ODST's, they become Spartans. As ODST Gage Yevgenny once said, "I'd seen the future of warfare, and I wasn't it."--[[File:Emblem 1.jpg|20px]][[User:Rusty-112|<span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:13pt;color:blue;">''' Rusty '''</span><span style="font-size:13pt;color:red;">'''- '''</span><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:13pt;color:blue;">'''112 '''</span>]] 16:56, 13 November 2012 (EST)

:As I said [http://www.halopedia.org/Talk:Halo_4/Archive_4#ODST here], they might of not been necessary to deploy in conjunction with Spartans. '''-{{User|Killjax}}'''

::They don't appear in the game because they would diminish the SPARTAN-IVs' grand introduction. According to the UNSC ''Infinity'' briefing packet, the ship has hundreds of SOEIV bays and a complement of over 8,000 Marines. Some of them must be ODSTs. --[[User talk:Braidenvl|Courage never dies.]] 23:40, 13 November 2012 (EST)
::Well, it is possible that the reason that the ODST division of the UNSC Marine Corps is not in Halo 4, is that they have been "replaced" by the S-IV program. Also, it's possible that the ODSTS themselves aren't gone, that the UNSC turned them into the first generation of Spartan IVs,would the UNSC really waste the time and resources on training regular Marine units to be S-IVs when they have an elite special ops force that would requre minimum training.This may actually be the next evolution of the ODSTs, which would explain the Recruit helmets extreme similarity to the the helmet of the ODST BDU; it's similar and would help them adapt to being an S-IV. [[User:S-074|S-074]]

==Black dress uniform==
Why do the ODSTs in, "We are ODST" wear black uniforms instead of Dress Blues? Is it because they're ODSTs instead of regular Marines or is black for funerals?{{unsigned|70.241.16.86}}

== 3rd Helljumper Platoon ==
As it is called the "Helljumper Platoon", it should be categorized as part of the 105th. In the commentary for "The Babysitter", Frank O'Connor states that only ODSTs from the 105th are called Helljumpers, and other Divisions would have different names.[[User:Toa Freak|Toa Freak]] ([[User talk:Toa Freak|talk]]) 13:20, 27 April 2014 (EDT)

:Thanks for the heads up. I went an extra step and renamed the unit's article; the way they're referred to in the game makes it sound like "Third Helljumper Platoon" is a distinct, permanent unit rather than one of many with the same designation. On a related note, I was thinking just the other day how much I'd like for at least a few of the non-Helljumper divisions to be identified, if only for fluff. We know there are at least four divisions, as Lord Hood mentions the Spartans having more combined kills than "''any three'' divisions of ODSTs" in ''First Strike''. --[[User:Braidenvl|<span style="color:gray">'''''Our vengeance is at hand.'''''</span>]] [[File:Gravemind.svg|14px]] ([[User talk:Braidenvl|<span style="color:gray">Talk to me.</span>]]) 14:35, 27 April 2014 (EDT)

==Affiliation with the 105th and fan-made (?) naming scheme==
I'm calling attention to two issues here. First, we've long assumed that every ODST battalion seen or mentioned to date belongs to the 105th. As I [[Talk:Orbital Drop Shock Troopers#3rd Helljumper Platoon|pointed out]] a few months ago, there are at least four ODST divisions. Battalions aren't uniquely numbered so each regiment would have its own 1st BN, 2nd BN, 3rd BN, and so on; granted, the ODST may be an exception to the rule. Anyway, only a handful of units have been explicitly identified as 105th elements: 3rd Platoon, 7th Battalion ([[Delta Halo (level)#Helljumpers|of course]]), 11th Battalion, and Buck's squad. The [[Order of battle (Viery, Reach)|other units at Viery]] were probably Helljumpers since Buck fought in the 11th ODST. As for other known units, who can say?

Second, the wiki has always titled ODST units with the same format: "''n''<sup>th</sup> Shock Troops Division/Battalion". Problem B is that I don't recall this format ever being used in official media, with the possible exception of the ''Encyclopedia'' - my copy is inaccessible. If it turns out that the aforementioned naming scheme is not used in canon, I suggest retitling the 105th and its ''confirmed'' battalions like so: "105th ODST Division" and "''n''<sup>th</sup> Battalion (105th ODST)". Battalions that may not be Helljumpers could make do without a division number in the title. --[[User:Braidenvl|<span style="color:gray">'''''Our vengeance is at hand.'''''</span>]] [[File:Gravemind.svg|14px]] ([[User talk:Braidenvl|<span style="color:gray">Talk to me.</span>]]) 11:16, 23 June 2014 (EDT)

:I agree on both points. I don't think the "Shock Troops (Unit)" naming scheme has ever been used in canon (apparently not in the ''Encyclopedia'' either, glancing through the ODST section). It looks to be another one of those relics that has stuck because no one has questioned it. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 03:02, 2 July 2014 (EDT)

::Actually, the 7th Shock Troops Battalion moniker [[:File:7thODSTunitpatch.PNG|is canon]]. EDIT: Unless, of course, it's meant to be read "7th Battalion, Shock Troops" or "Shock Troops, 7th Battalion". The first possibility seems more likely. --[[User:Braidenvl|<span style="color:gray">'''''Our vengeance is at hand.'''''</span>]] [[File:Gravemind.svg|14px]] ([[User talk:Braidenvl|<span style="color:gray">Talk to me.</span>]]) 11:55, 13 October 2014 (EDT)

:::According to the Bungie writeup on the back of the Halo 2 Joyride ODST figure, the Helljumpers are from "NSWG2-ODST Team 5". That would be Team 5 of Naval Special Warfare Group 2. (This is the same writeup that gave us the first usage of SOEIV.) Another version of the ODST cardback from Joyride states "105th ODST Division". The Fall of Reach, p65 refers to "'Helljumpers'—the infamous 105th." On page 6 however, there's a reference to the "105th Drop Jet Platoon". The 105th Helljumpers have been around "centuries" prior to the Spartan-IIs according to issue 3 of Helljumper comic. Linking the 105th with 'Helljumper also occurs in The Cole Protocol, p48. So there's some ambiguity as to whether it's a division or platoon. -[[User:ScaleMaster117|ScaleMaster117]] ([[User talk:ScaleMaster117|talk]]) 12:52, 13 October 2014 (EDT)

== Personnel category ==

Okay, I'm making a category for ODST personnel (as it is easier to have a category rather than keep a long list updated). Before I make it, does "Orbital Drop Shock Trooper personnel" or "Orbital Drop Shock Troopers personnel" sound better/correct. I can never decide which one is correct. Just asking for input so I don't create a large category and then have to make a new one just because of one letter. - [[User:NightHammer|NightHammer]] ([[User talk:NightHammer|talk]]) 10:12, 31 May 2015 (EDT)

:Wouldn't "Orbital Drop Shock Troopers" suffice? Granted, most of the personnel categories have the "personnel" in there, but then again the Spartan ones (and several others) don't. I'd be fine with "Orbital Drop Shock Troopers". --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 10:24, 31 May 2015 (EDT)

::Yeah, I was thinking about that, but I figured that "Orbital Drop Shock Troopers" might be used as a category to encompass the organization as a whole in the future. But there is no reason to really expect that to happen right now, so "Orbital Drop Shock Troopers" should be fine for now. - [[User:NightHammer|NightHammer]] ([[User talk:NightHammer|talk]]) 10:45, 31 May 2015 (EDT)

==Branch???==
While looking through many articles, i became a little bit lost. I don't get it, to whome do the ODSTs belong to? Are they part of UNSC Marine Corps or UNSC Navy's Naval Special Warfare Command? It's 2 different branches of UNSC Armed Forces, but info in the articles is suggesting they belong to eigher of them.  --[[User:Necrontir|<font color="Black"><b>Necrontir</b></font>]] 11:52, 2 May 2016

:Naval Special Warfare Command is a division of the UNSC Naval Command, which is largely made of up the Navy with token representation from the Marine Corps. So technically, the Marines have similar authority to the Navy within Naval Special Warfare Command (Johnson was a non-ODST operator within the division, I believe). It is my understanding that NavCom is essentially the UNSC's equivalent of the United States' Department of the Navy, which is made up of the Marines and Navy. In the UNSC, the Marines are mostly organized under UniCom, though like I said, they have some authority within NavCom. Also forgot to mention that the ODSTs are further organized under Naval Special Weapons, which UniCom has more authority over for whatever reason. --[[User:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">'''NightHammer'''</span>]]''<sup>[[User talk:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(talk)</span>]]</sup><sup>[[Special:Contributions/NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(contribs)</span>]]</sup>'' 11:57, 2 May 2016 (EDT)

::Yeah, well, thats a little bit enlightening. Thanks. --[[User:Necrontir|<font color="Black"><b>Necrontir</b></font>]] 12:06, 2 May 2016

:::Heh, military chains of command can be a daunting prospect to unravel sometimes. Suffice to say, ODSTs are members of the Marine Corps, which operates under the authority of the Navy. NavSpecWar is part of the Navy, but has elements from the Navy, ODSTs, and "regular" Marines special warfare units, and is the Navy's contribution to UniCom. UniCom oversees ground deployments across most branches, which includes ODSTs despite being launched from orbit. -- [[User:Morhek|<b><font color=indigo>Qura 'Morhek</font></b>]] [[halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>The Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>of Morheka</sup></font></i></u>]] 09:53, 3 May 2016 (EDT)

== Halo Combat Evolved Appearance ==

Where exactly do they show up in Halo CE?