Editing Talk:M12 Warthog

==Transmission==
So is the M12 a auto or manual? 

"It is a highly mobile, all-wheel-drive, all-wheel-steering, ICE-powered vehicle equipped with a manual transmission."

"M12's power is generated by a forward-housed low-profile liquid-cooled hydrogen-injected ICE I/C plant, coupled with an automatic infinitely variable transmission (IVT)."--[[User talk:RussellofSwinhart|RussellofSwinhart]] 06:22, 22 October 2011 (EDT)

==Step Height Quote==
The step Height quote refers to the distance from the ground to the "door" of the warthog to get into the warthog. This is far above one foot so I am editing part saying the ground clearance is less that a foot out, as it has nothing to do with the marines quote. The marine is very likely correct as the "door" of the warthog is at least to the master chief's waist if not chest. - Caleb

== Info from Forza 4/halofest ==

Can somone add the info that was given from the video released that had jen taylor commentating about the warthog with the model in forza 4 from halofest? [[Special:Contributions/69.132.69.87|69.132.69.87]] 15:15, 27 August 2011 (EDT)

:It'd be really informative if someone did, however, I'm not sure on the canon status of the information given.--[[User:Ender the Xenocide|<font color="Green">Ender the Xenocide]]</font> 07:00, 1 September 2011 (EDT)

I'm pretty sure that information's canon. After all, why include such detail about its mechanics and mileage if it's not intended to be truthful? So if anyone has the game, or a recorded video of the narration, they can add it. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 12:06, 22 October 2011 (EDT)

It says that the 2553 model was used at the in the crash towards the begining of the war... which would mean it would probably be a 2527 model or something. So it doesn't make much sense ya see... [[User:FatalSnipe117|<span style="color:green">'''pestilence'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/FatalSnipe117|<span style="color:green">'''Phil'''</span>]], ''[[User talk:FatalSnipe117|<span style="color:green">'''pestilence!'''</span>]]'' 12:39, 22 October 2011 (EDT)

::The lastest model of the Warthog was built in 2554 (Cortana says this at the very beginning of the video). She doesn't say anything about a 2553 or 2527 model. Also Cortana is referencing a previous model of the Warthog having survived a crash inside a UNSC Frigate but she doesn't state what date. So really ''Pestilence'', what are you talking about?? And being that the model was built in 2554, that means that Halo 4 starts during or after 2556 (based off Halo legends video) and not in 2553.--[[User talk:Killamint|Killamint]] 17:29, 8 February 2012 (EST)

== LRV ==

should we merge the LRV and FAV pages cause unless theres unarmoued version minus the civlian hog butthead4
:No.--'''''<span style="color:green">Commander</span>''''' '''''[[User:Spartacus|<span style="color:green">Spartacus</span>]]''''' (''[[User talk:Spartacus|<span style="color:orange">Tenth Roman</span>]]'' ''[[Special:Contributions/Spartacus|<span style="color:orange">Battalion</span>]]'') 23:58, 13 December 2011 (EST)
==Halo Wars Warthog==
Might the base warthog in Halo Wars, which lacks a turret, be the base model (i.e. FAV)? Currently, the main image is that of the M12 LRV. Should, therefore, the image be changed to that of the Halo Wars 'Hog (or a [[turretless vehicle glitch|glitched]] warthog from Halo 3 - although this of course would be non-canon)? Having a flat-beded configuration as the base model would make sense, as suplies, gear, and such could be stowed in the back, and it could easily be reconfigured into a LRV, etc. [[User talk:DefeatingLine|DefeatingLine]] 17:05, 6 January 2012 (EST)

I disagree. The main intro image is everything Halo fans are familiar with, ''Halo Wars'' notwithstanding. --[[User talk:Xamikaze330|Xamikaze330]] 18:17, 6 January 2012 (EST)Xamikaze330

Alright; I had wished to avoid confusion that way. [[User talk:DefeatingLine|DefeatingLine]] 19:12, 6 January 2012 (EST)
:The image is fine. No need to change.--[[File:Pipboy300.jpg|20px]] [[User:Spartacus|<span style="Color:black; font-family: Monotype Corsiva; font-size: 130%">Commander Spartacus</span>]] ~ '''''[[User talk:Spartacus|<span style="color:grey">ŤДŁĶ</span>]] ~ [[Special:Contributions/Spartacus|<span style="color:grey">ĈʘŃŤṜǏΒŨŤǏʘŃŞ</span>]] ~ [[Special:EmailUser/Spartacus|<span style="color:grey">ĚṂДǏŁ</span>]]''''' 19:17, 6 January 2012 (EST)
::About one point raised; since there's no visible difference from the base Warthog seen in Halo Wars and the Halo 3 glitched one, would the glitched one be considered canon?[[User:Fairfieldfencer|<font color="#FF2400">Fair</font><font color="#FFA500">field</font><font color="#FF2400">fencer</font>]] [[User talk:Fairfieldfencer|<font color="FF2400">F</font><font color="#FFA500">F</font><font color="#FF2400">F</font>]] 19:49, 6 January 2012 (EST)
:::Glitches are not canon.--{{User:Spartacus/Sig}}
::::Several wrecked Warthogs in ODST, however, lack turret mounts entirerly. I will upload an image of this.[[User talk:DefeatingLine|DefeatingLine]] 21:57, 6 January 2012 (EST)
[[File: M12 FAV ODST.jpg|thumb|right| Turretless wreck from Halo 3: odst campaign.]]

Actually, I agree. The M12 FAV is treated as a "frame" for the other Hog variants. If the picture of the M12 FAV and the M12 LRV are the same, then whats the difference between the two? By the way, there are also turretless wreckages in Crow's Nest. —[[User:Spartan331|<span style="color:silver;">S331</span>]] [[File:Bubbleshieldhud.svg|14px]]<sub>([[User talk:Spartan331|COM]] • [[Special:Contributions/Spartan331|Mission Log]] • [[UserProfile:Spartan331|Profile]])</sub> 10:38, 8 February 2012 (EST)

I've found that in Halo 3 and Halo 3: ODST that ALL destroyed Warthogs that spawn by default are flatbeds, even if there is debris from a cannon near it.--[[User talk:TK 234|One  who survived]] 12:55, 26 February 2012 (EST)

== Suspension change ==
As many of you should have noticed, Warthog's suspension design changed to an entirely different type - more like current day vehichles', which seems to have much less cross-country abilities than old iconic one. Is there any canon explanation yet, why? [[User talk:PatrickRus|PatrickRus]] 16:50, 6 March 2012 (EST)

== Image needed ==

As per [[Talk:M12_Force_Application_Vehicle#Halo_Wars_Warthog|this discussion]] (if redirect doesn't work, it's the section above titled "Halo Wars Warthog"), would it be possible for someone to upload a picture of a turretless Warthog? It can be either from Halo 3, Halo 3: Recon or Halo Wars. I don't think you can create a flatbed Warthog in ''Reach''... but who knows. :P — <span style="font-size:16px; font-family:OrbitronMedium;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span> 16:15, 2 May 2012 (EDT)

:Sub's been drinking. :P —[[User:Spartan331|<span style="color:silver;">S331</span>]] [[File:Bubbleshieldhud.svg|14px]]<sub>([[User talk:Spartan331|COM]] • [[Special:Contributions/Spartan331|Mission Log]] • [[UserProfile:Spartan331|Profile]])</sub> 11:08, 3 May 2012 (EDT)

::Pssh. :P — <span style="font-size:16px; font-family:OrbitronMedium;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span>  15:47, 3 May 2012 (EDT)

==List of appearances==
Why is warthog first appeared in fall of reach shouldn't it be Halo Combat Evolved. In the beginning cutscence just a little bit before the part where sergeant Johnson gave his speech to the marines. --[[User talk:SPARTAN ZER0|SPARTAN ZER0]] 02:04, 29 May 2012 (EDT)

:The Fall of Reach was released a little before the game was, so it is the official first appearance of the vehicle. -- [[User:Specops306|<b><font color=indigo>Specops306</font></b>]] [[halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>Qur'a 'Morhek</sup></font></i></u>]] 03:41, 29 May 2012 (EDT)
According to the new Halo Waypoint Universe section it is 8.1 Feet tall, but currently we use a bigger height from Halo Encyclopedia. Should we change it? [[User:SamGall|SamGall]] ([[User talk:SamGall|talk]]) 12:11, 27 November 2014 (EST)

== Forza ==

Is the Forza description canon? I saw the discussion from four years ago, but I want to be sure that we didn't get anything saying it wasn't canon. [[UNSC Daedalus|Judging from this, I'm guessing yes]]. --[[User:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">'''NightHammer'''</span>]]''<sup>[[User talk:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(talk)</span>]]</sup><sup>[[Special:Contributions/NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(contribs)</span>]]</sup>'' 23:27, 28 May 2016 (EDT)

:We actually have a page on this I made. [[Forza 4 Autovista Warthog]]. If this helps. -[[User:CIA391|CIA391]] ([[User talk:CIA391|talk]]) 07:14, 29 May 2016 (EDT)
:'''Edit''': Its also in Grims Canon list which he keeps it semi-up to date with the bigger halo-media, so he would of removed it if it wasnt canon. Make of this as you will https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/db05ce78845f4120b062c50816008e5d/topics/welcome-to-the-halo-universe-forum/bc1eaccb-84c4-4cf4-a453-9419f82e7a78/posts -[[User:CIA391|CIA391]] ([[User talk:CIA391|talk]]) 09:57, 29 May 2016 (EDT)

::Alright, that proves it for me. Thanks! --[[User:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">'''NightHammer'''</span>]]''<sup>[[User talk:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(talk)</span>]]</sup><sup>[[Special:Contributions/NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(contribs)</span>]]</sup>'' 10:13, 29 May 2016 (EDT)

== Upcoming edit ==

Currently working on this article and I'm nearly done, though there is a few things I would like to note/make mention of:
# I've reworked the "2554 model" and "M12B" sub(sub?)sections into one subsection I've tentatively called "Design changes". Did this particularly so we have a slightly largely subsection rather than two small subsubsections. Basically I just went over how parts of the Warthog have changed over time. I'm still not really sure what the M12B is. So far, I've made it clear that it isn't a "standard" variant like the Gauss or Rocket Hog. Was its nature ever clarified and I missed it?
# Anyone here auto-knowledgeable? I know the basics and that's about it, but as I'm writing a subsection on the Warthog's more technical features, it would be beneficial if someone more knowledgeable on the subject than me could read it over and make sure it sounds right (either when I submit the edits or if someone responds before I'm done).
# Another request: could anyone get some good quality images of the Scout Hogs in ''Halo 5''? We ''should'' probably have one for each variant in the game, though for now I'm really only looking for one or two images. It would be much appreciated.
# Another thing that I've done: I include images of the M12 variants and I've created a subsection that briefly describes the Warthog's armaments (half of it is just describing the technical specifications of the weapon mount anyways). I know this article is generally for the unarmed M12 Warthog, though I've made such changes because they still are technically the same vehicle and we have a limited amount of weaponless Warthog pics (as implied in the previous request).

Any comments or help would be greatly appreciated! EDIT: Actually, screw it, [[User:NightHammer/Sandbox3|I'll make a sandbox post for it so you guys can see what I've done so far]]. --[[User:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">'''NightHammer'''</span>]]''<sup>[[User talk:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(talk)</span>]]</sup><sup>[[Special:Contributions/NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(contribs)</span>]]</sup>'' 20:40, 29 May 2016 (EDT)
:The M12B seems to just be the current base model that includes the current generation of M12Rs and M12G1s.[[User:Sith Venator|<span style="color:green">Sith Venator</span>]]  ([[User talk:Sith Venator|<span style="color:blue">Dank Memes</span>]]) 21:24, 29 May 2016 (EDT)
::Yeah, that's kind of what I figured. --[[User:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">'''NightHammer'''</span>]]''<sup>[[User talk:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(talk)</span>]]</sup><sup>[[Special:Contributions/NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(contribs)</span>]]</sup>'' 22:32, 29 May 2016 (EDT)

:::It is possible that the 2554 variant and the M12B is the same variant. Just my two cents -[[User:CIA391|CIA391]] ([[User talk:CIA391|talk]]) 07:54, 30 May 2016 (EDT)

::::I kinda' doubt it.[[User:Sith Venator|<span style="color:green">Sith Venator</span>]] ([[User talk:Sith Venator|<span style="color:blue">Dank Memes</span>]]) 12:42, 30 May 2016 (EDT)

==M12A and M12B==
''Note for this I will dub the original M12 as M12A for ease of going though this, but remember it has never been called that in-universe yet thus it would be called M12 in the article.''

What I was getting at above was as the Halo2A/Halo 4/Forza 4 Warthog shares the same body as the Halo 5 M12B warthog. 

Halo Initiation proved that 343i still used the Halo Reach era M12A design. And it was released after Halo 4 so that means there must be a distinction between the two. Image gallery below to help my point
<gallery>
File:H3-TurretlessWarthog.png|Halo 3 M12A body(2552)
File:Halo_Reach_Warthog.png|Halo Reach M12A body(2552)
File:H4-M12WarthogLRV.png|Halo 4 M12B body(2557/8)
File:Forza_4_Warthog.png|Forza 4 M12B body(alt name 2554 M12 Force Application Vehicle)
File:Halo Initiation M12.png|Halo Initiation M12A body(2552)
File:H2ACP-WarthogLRV.png|Halo 2A M12B body(2552)
File:H5G_-_M12_Warthog_render.png|Halo 5 M12B (2558)
</gallery> 

I can get behind there being a 2554 variant of the M12B, I mean it would be like how there is year variants of the [[Hog]]. 

I can also get behind the fact that 2 variants the M12A and M12B were being used together in 2552, before being completely replaced by at least 2554. 

I cant get behind calling the Halo 4 and Forza 4 Warthogs M12A though as there is a clear difference shown by 343i already with Initiation after Halo 4 and Forza 4 introduced the new design. :) -[[User:CIA391|CIA391]] ([[User talk:CIA391|talk]]) 13:41, 30 May 2016 (EDT)

:[https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/community/blog-posts/canon-fodder-a-time-to-give-tanks This Canon Fodder] said the new [[M70 Gauss cannon|Gauss turret]] was added to the M12B after the Requiem campaign, whereas our article says it's the M12B itself that entered service after the campaign. I think the Canon Fodder meant the M12B already existed before 2558. It's very likely that it corresponds to the model from ''Halo 4'', ''Halo 2: Anniversary'', ''Forza'', etc, though I'd like clarifications from 343. [[User:Imrane-117|Imrane-117]] ([[User talk:Imrane-117|talk]]) 15:59, 30 May 2016 (EDT)

::That's what I was thinking. I'll probably reword it in the article to say that it was first seen after the campaign. It'd be cool if Grim explained what the M12B was exactly. --[[User:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">'''NightHammer'''</span>]]''<sup>[[User talk:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(talk)</span>]]</sup><sup>[[Special:Contributions/NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(contribs)</span>]]</sup>'' 16:02, 30 May 2016 (EDT)

:::It seems 343 didn't bother too much with the letter designations at the time of ''Halo 4''. Don't forget it's only in [http://www.halopedia.org/index.php?title=Type-26_Banshee&direction=next&oldid=1116132 March of 2015] that we got the letter designations for the Type-26 Banshee. [[User:Imrane-117|Imrane-117]] ([[User talk:Imrane-117|talk]]) 16:09, 30 May 2016 (EDT)

::::I believe 343i tried to start off with year designations but found that became problematic and tied them down. Leading to them changing direction and add letter designations instead. Sure the year designation can still be a part of it as a model of the letter designations.

::::Like for example
::::*M12B - Base info to all M12B
::::**M12B 2554 - Info exclusive to the 2554 Forza version

::::I think that would be correct. Now we just need 343i to clarify this, which I doubt will happen unless we are lucky(I will laugh if at that comment if they do it in the next few week though). xD -[[User:CIA391|CIA391]] ([[User talk:CIA391|talk]]) 16:24, 30 May 2016 (EDT)

(reset) I think the year still matters, like for the civilian Hog, as you said. The 2554 M12(B?) Warthog is obviously not the one seen during the Covenant War. As to when they will talk about that, who knows, once I started talking about the ''Halo 5'' Sangheili ships and the day after it was the Canon Fodder's main subject. I think Grim knows we are still waiting for more info on this kind of topic, ever since he started explaining everything about the Banshee, but he has other things to do. He can't even update minor things like the War Games designation for The Rig... [[User:Imrane-117|Imrane-117]] ([[User talk:Imrane-117|talk]]) 17:23, 30 May 2016 (EDT)

:Well I never crossed off the year mattering. Plus the 2554 variant does have aesthetic differences from even Halo 4's version.(I will write about that once you done the main article). I like to think letters are the main model, and years are updates.-[[User:CIA391|CIA391]] ([[User talk:CIA391|talk]]) 17:42, 30 May 2016 (EDT)

::Feel free to add it now. It would be easier for me to organize it then. And Sith asked Grim on Halo Archive so hopefully he responds. --[[User:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">'''NightHammer'''</span>]]''<sup>[[User talk:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(talk)</span>]]</sup><sup>[[Special:Contributions/NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(contribs)</span>]]</sup>'' 19:35, 30 May 2016 (EDT)

:::Also, is this ''Spirit of Fire'' variant only distinguished by a flame decal on it? If so, I'm not sure if we can really count that as a variant. --[[User:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">'''NightHammer'''</span>]]''<sup>[[User talk:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(talk)</span>]]</sup><sup>[[Special:Contributions/NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(contribs)</span>]]</sup>'' 20:08, 30 May 2016 (EDT)

::::Well its a variant(well more precisely a Skin) only available on the UNSC Spirit of Fire. So it does have more notable info than "it just has a flame decal on it". Where else can you put that info though, cause I admit I am a lil stumped on that? Unless we make a section for paintjobs and skins.-[[User:CIA391|CIA391]] ([[User talk:CIA391|talk]]) 20:31, 30 May 2016 (EDT)

:::::Honestly, the mention in the gallery should be good enough. We just need to reword it to mention that its only found on ''SoF''. --[[User:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">'''NightHammer'''</span>]]''<sup>[[User talk:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(talk)</span>]]</sup><sup>[[Special:Contributions/NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(contribs)</span>]]</sup>'' 20:47, 30 May 2016 (EDT)

::::::It's also called the [http://www.halowars.com/default.aspx?p=17 Flaming Warthog] (informally). [[User:Imrane-117|Imrane-117]] ([[User talk:Imrane-117|talk]]) 21:21, 30 May 2016 (EDT)

:Indent reset: Or ''Fireball Warthog'' or the ''Spirit of Fire variant'' officially. Thats the two names I use cause the source I use gives them both. If you manage to view the descripion. -[[User:CIA391|CIA391]] ([[User talk:CIA391|talk]]) 21:26, 30 May 2016 (EDT)

::As per the new edits, I think it's worth mentioning that those Waypoint figures have been there since before the M12B was a thing. --[[User:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">'''NightHammer'''</span>]]''<sup>[[User talk:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(talk)</span>]]</sup><sup>[[Special:Contributions/NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(contribs)</span>]]</sup>'' 09:53, 31 May 2016 (EDT)

:::Damn, but the chassis are clearly different. So it shouldnt be to hard to change into something else till 343i announce that it is a M12B body. _[[User:CIA391|CIA391]] ([[User talk:CIA391|talk]]) 10:26, 31 May 2016 (EDT)

::::Nighthammer thats me done the main differences for the H2A, H4, and Forza 4 Warthogs. Just to compare the Halo 5 model now.-[[User:CIA391|CIA391]] ([[User talk:CIA391|talk]]) 16:19, 8 June 2016 (EDT)

:::::Comparing all the Warthogs that use the Chassis 2.(Or body 2) I am 95% sure that they are the same vehicle just with different combinations. Potential yearly upgrades if the Forza 4 Warthog is to be believed. 
:::::Only difference between the Halo 5 one and the Halo 2A one is the fact that the engine battery is orange and it lacks the overhead screen in the driver carriage. And tone of Green of the Warthog. That is pretty much the only differences. -[[User:CIA391|CIA391]] ([[User talk:CIA391|talk]]) 17:53, 8 June 2016 (EDT)

::::::Sounds good. --[[User:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">'''NightHammer'''</span>]]''<sup>[[User talk:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(talk)</span>]]</sup><sup>[[Special:Contributions/NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(contribs)</span>]]</sup>'' 19:54, 8 June 2016 (EDT)

== Pics ==

Can we get some images in the section about the different chassis to make it more clear which ones refer to the different game models? I'd do it myself, but I myself am confused on this.--[[User:D9328|D9328]] ([[User talk:D9328|talk]]) 16:31, 23 September 2017 (EDT)d9328
:Did some image work, but it would help if we got some clarification as to what models the term M12B refers to, because right now, that's kind of ambiguous.--[[User:D9328|D9328]] ([[User talk:D9328|talk]]) 17:04, 23 September 2017 (EDT)d9328
::I will deal with it. I was planning on getting it all sorted and worked on.-[[User:CIA391|CIA391]] ([[User talk:CIA391|talk]]) 17:29, 23 September 2017 (EDT)

== 2557/58 model ==

These two "models", save for the graphics updates from halo 4-5 and different chainguns, look exactly the same. Should they be combined?--[[User:D9328|D9328]] ([[User talk:D9328|talk]]) 11:05, 24 September 2017 (EDT)d9328

:They have differences. Some under the bonnet like a battery being a different colour. And other stuff thats really minor.-[[User:CIA391|CIA391]] ([[User talk:CIA391|talk]]) 11:24, 24 September 2017 (EDT)

== Splitting this page up ==

I think this page really needs to be split up. The way the page is written and organised right now, it's pretty difficult to easily distinguish the model variants from one another because of how much information on varying models there is. At the very least, the M12 and M12B ought to be split into different pages entirely (in the same way we have the M808B and M808C Scorpion pages). It could just be me, but I feel that there's a lot of really confusing terminology that could be better explained. Light Reconnaissance Vehicle, Force Application Vehicle, M12B? I'd even say we should create pages for the LRV/ Gauss/ Rocket variants' M12B models to further distinguish, or at least create dedicated sections on those pages to separate M12 and M12B info.  I also believe the specialised variants like the Tropic, Arctic and so forth deserve their own pages. I mean, we have a page for the [[MA1 assault rifle]], and these 'Hog variants have more to say due to their real-world development history.

So yeah, at the very least split M12 and M12B to their own pages, and create a hub page that clearly outlines which vehicle is which. [[User:BaconShelf|BaconShelf]] ([[User talk:BaconShelf|talk]]) 07:48, June 24, 2019 (EDT)