Talk:Class-2 medium plasma mortar

Merge

Even if General5 7 gave you permission to recreate the article, this page needs to be merged with the plasma mortar article for two reasons: It has been confirmed to be a type of plasma mortar, but then someof you might say, "This subject is notable enough to warrant its own article.", however I might reply saying that because its name is unconfirmed and is called "plasma mortar" by Bungie, it should stay in the "plasma mortar" article until it gets an official name. --SPARTAN-125 Cally99117

I agree. It is definately subject to its own article, as it functions entirely different from a traditional Wraith Plasma Mortar. However, we don't know its official name, or even its common name. Nor do we even know the official name for the Revenant. Bungie seems a little lax in their canon reveals and focuses more on gameplay reveals in these last few months before release. So, I believe we'll get some of what we're looking for in the game manual. Anywho, even though it hasn't been named yet, that doesn't stop us from creating an article for it. It is a different weapon and deserves a different article. A more appropriate name would be "[Unspecified/Unknown/Unnamed] Plasma Mortar".--FluffyEmoPenguin^{(ice quack!)} 19:37, August 13, 2010 (UTC)

It is a type of plasma mortar, but it isn't the plasma mortar. I do feel that it's significant enough to warrant its own article. I added the ArticleName template to show that, while we don't yet know its official name, apart from the catch-all "plasma mortar" term, it is a separate weapon. My point is this: it's going to have its own article some day, so it might as well have one now. --"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have." -Thomas Jefferson 19:46, August 13, 2010 (UTC)

You don't get it do you? In the Bungie Weekly Update it is referred to as "plasma mortar" thus isn't a different weapon and should be merged. --SPARTAN-125 Cally99117

"It’s not nearly as powerful as the Wraith’s cannon, and the arc is less pronounced, but the rate of fire is cranked up a few ticks..."

— Bungie

I thought I should just point out this quote. This proves that it is a completely different from the Wraith's mortar.   General5 7    talk    contribs    email  

I think we should make the Super Scarab an article because its power is a lot more different than the normal Scarab in which you said that this weapons power is also a lot different as you said above. If you read the update you will see that Bungie calls it "plasma mortar" and the weapon is not 100% different from the plasma mortar. --SPARTAN-125 Cally99117

Not only is its power different, but the way its projectiles behave is entirely different. Also, I noticed the new Phantoms and Spirits have this same projectile for their cannons so this isn't a single case scenario where one vehicle gets a special treatment with its own scaled-down weapon variant.--FluffyEmoPenguin^{(ice quack!)}

I believe The Light Plasma Mortar should keeps it's own article, because it is a way different from the normal Plasma Mortar, and once the real name is relieved we’ll just change the name of it and add whatever new info we get.

i also suggest that we add the "Template:Covenant Weapons" to the bottom of the article and insert the Light Plasma Mortar into the template, as soon as we find out its real name

--The Unbalanced Warrior August 14, 2010 (EST)

All of you don't get it do you? It as been confirmed to be a plasma mortar and it should be merged until it is confirmed to be different. And like I said above if this subject deserves an article then the Super Scarab also deserves an article because it is a lot different from the normal Scarab which I think you ignored. But I will go back and look at the update again to find the quote that I used in this discussion. -SPARTAN-125 Cally99117

No I do get it, I just don’t think you see it the way we do... let me try to explain ourselves, In Halo CE you were able to use a pistol called the ‘M6D pistol’ and then in Halo 2 you were able to use a different pistol the ‘M6C’ and then even a different one in Halo 3 the ‘M6G’ each one is a “Pistol”, but they are not all merged together in one article called “M6 Pistol series” they each have there own article because they are different… They shoot at different speeds, do different damage, use different bullets, and even look different. In the same way The ‘Light Plasma Mortar’ and the ‘Plasma Mortar’ are both “Plasma Mortars” but they shoot at different speeds, do different damage, are different sizes, and even look different. So in that way the Light Plasma Mortar should have its own article.

So…when Bungie called it a ‘Plasma Mortar’ it would be just like them calling a new pistol a ‘Pistol’… well “Pistol” wouldn’t be the new weapons name it just is a pistol…

Now yes I understand that we don’t have the official name of this weapon yet, but for now I think it is ok to keep the name we have, and when we do find out it’s real name (if it’s not different) we can change!

And yes you do bring up a valid point with the Super Scarab…and using the same logic that I’m using the Super Scarab ‘should’ have an article of its own! I’m not really good at creating and organizing new articles so I can’t make it, but you should most definitely try to make the Super Scarab have an article of its own!

--The Unbalanced Warrior August 14, 2010 (EST)

I think The Unbalanced Warior won me over. No merge. They are different enough and this one is a variant of the normal mortor, much like the M6s and MA5s. Also, a technical name will probably never be given as we don't even know the tecnical name for the Wraith's plasma mortar so the name may as well stay with a "ArticleName" template. Que Sera, Sera 19:25, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

Indeed. The weapon's completely different from the standard plasma mortar, and while it should be mentioned on the plasma mortar page, it deserves its own article just like Covenant Artillery (which is a heavier plasma mortar and notably, has its own page), or like The Unbalanced Warrior noted, every MA5 or M6 variant. Even if we have no official name for the weapon, everyone can clearly see it's nowhere near the same as the Wraith's cannon and as such, should not be merged. --Jugus (Talk | Contribs)

19:30, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

I made a mistake when I thought they referred to "plasma mortar" but Bungie said "mortar". But if this subject gets an article then I suggest that the Super Scarab get its own article because it is a lot different from the normal Scarab and there is a lot of evidence that it was created using the possible Forerunner artefact (British spelling of "artifact") because the Covenant would have already built it if they hed the resources. --SPARTAN-125 Cally99117

I'd say why not. A super scarab article seems fine by me, even though it isn't really that central to the story. Then again, the Scarabs in Halo Wars, Halo 2 and Halo 3 are considerably different in appearance and behavior, but don't have their own articles. One could argue that "Type-47 UHAP" only refers to the Halo 3 Scarab, while the others are different models whose formal designations are unknown. --Jugus (Talk | Contribs) 08:59, August 16, 2010 (UTC)

I would oppose such thing. There is not much information known about vehicle, or the mechanics of the weapon fired by all those vessels. In fact, I don't think they all satisfy the "significant coverage"). As such, it is easier to simply have them all in one article. True that "One could argue that "Type-47 UHAP" only refers to the Halo 3 Scarab", but the applied common word "Scarab" on all of these behemoths seems to suggest the designation does applies to all.- 5əb'7aŋk^(7alk) 09:19, August 16, 2010 (UTC)

Nor is there much information on this subject so I support the separation. --SPARTAN-125 Cally99117

It's true that all of the models are commonly called "Scarabs", but then again, things like the BR55 Battle Rifle and the BR55HB SR Battle Rifle are commonly only referred to as "battle rifles" even when they are obviously different models with different designations. To avoid this, we could always call th T47 UHAP article "Scarab" and mention that only the Halo 3 one has a confirmed official designation while the others are just referred to as "Scarabs". The same would apply to Type-25 Assault Gun Carriage and Type-26 Anti-Infantry Stationary Gun, which would be called "Wraith" and "Shade", respectively; it doesn't really make sense to apply the formal designation of the Halo 3 model to all of their iterations since the iterations in question are considerably different in appearance and function and we have no way to know for sure if the Halo 3 model's designation is applied to all of them. Obviously, the articles shouldn't be separated so that every different model would have its own article, but the name could be changed to describe the subject in general to avoid the assumption that all models have the same designation. --Jugus (Talk | Contribs) 09:48, August 16, 2010 (UTC)

"Scarab" is a nickname for the plasma-spitting Covenant behemoth that wreck havoc over Arcadia (Halo Wars), New Mombasa (Halo 2/ODST) and Voi (Halo 3) while "Battle Rifle" is a term which defines the operation of the weapon. As such, the analogy you've given is incorrect... but anyways... I agree with the rest. :P - 5əb'7aŋk^(7alk) 09:57, August 16, 2010 (UTC)

True, though just to clarify, I was referring to the name given for the weapon in-game (e.g. "picked up a battle rifle"). None of the formal designations are ever used in gameplay, so "battle rifle", in this case, refers to the weapon of that type in that game, just like "pistol" or "sniper rifle", even though those are obviously common terms for types of weapon. Oh well. Should've used a better example. --Jugus (Talk | Contribs) 10:11, August 16, 2010 (UTC)

The reason why I want the Super Scarab to have an article is that this article is just as not notable as the Super Scarab having its own article, and if the Covenant had the resources to build such an upgraded version of the Scarab then they would have done it before the Second Battle of Arcadia, but they didn't so it is possible that they made it with the possible Forerunner artefact (British spelling of "artifact") behind the Scarab because it has notable differences in power to that of the normal Scarab. --SPARTAN-125 Cally99117

It's off topic, but I do agree with you about the Halo 2/Super Scarab - they're clearly the same thing - having its own article, as it is vastly different from the smaller model. Strangely, in Palace Hotel, John calls the larger model a "Tee-Forty-Seven", which seems to indicate that it is classed with its smaller counterpart. Regardless, the two Scarabs are definitely not the same. The "Super" Scarab is much larger and is much less maneuverable. They have different armament. The smaller Scarab is controlled by Lekgolo, while the big one has a conventional crew. I can't really imagine being allowed to split the article, but I would like to see it happen. --"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have." -Thomas Jefferson 15:35, August 16, 2010 (UTC)

Voting for merge

Oppose (8/2)

1. Oppose - As per my statements and the Unbalanced Warrior's. Que Sera, Sera 19:38, August 15, 2010 (UTC)
2. Oppose - The weapon is not a Wraith Plasma Mortar, it is entirely different. Bungie may have called it a "Plasma Mortar", but that is just a broad term used to describe the base type of weapon.--FluffyEmoPenguin^{(ice quack!)} 20:22, August 15, 2010 (UTC)
3. Oppose - As per the above. The Unbalanced Warrior gave a nice analogy: it is merely one weapon in a class of weapons. If the Wraith's mortar were called the Type-7 Plasma Mortar, for instance, and Bungie gave the Revenant's weapon the same designation, the situation would be different. However, that is not the case. It is not the same thing. --"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have." -Thomas Jefferson 01:16, August 16, 2010 (UTC)
4. Oppose -They are different weapons and there fore should be seperate articles. If we merge these we might as well merge Plama Rifle and Plasma Repeater. —This unsigned comment was made by Fatgunn (talk • contribs). Please sign your posts with ~~~~
5. Oppose - Unless someone can prove beyond a shadow of doubt this is the same the Wraith's mortar, cease and desist with the notion to merge. [Sometimes, it's all about the glory.] [Put your boot up enough alien backside and the corps will pin rows of medals on your chest.]^{[Bad ass, unlocked.]}
6. Oppose - Haha. That Cally99117 person got owned... :) OPPOSE Gunnery Sergeant ENTITYMuteNRS _{Lord Jezza} 07:42, August 16, 2010 (UTC)
7. Oppose - As per myself and everyone else.--Jugus (Talk | Contribs) 08:59, August 16, 2010 (UTC)
8. Oppose -   General5 7    talk    contribs    email  

Spirit Dropship?

Where did it stated officially that the Spirit Dropship uses the Light Plasma Mortar and not the Heavy Plasma Cannon?- 5əb'7aŋk^(7alk) 16:07, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

The plasma bolts fired by the Spirit look remarkably similar to the light plasma mortar, but I thought they were closer to the bolts fired by the Concussion Rifle. This was specifically apparent in the E3 Long Night of Solace demo. Or are the light plasma mortar bolts even different from the Concussion Rifle's ones or are they essentially the same? --Jugus (Talk | Contribs) 16:46, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

In my view, I simply dismiss it as being a light plasma mortar. I think it is simply an graphical upgrade to make the bolts fired by the plasma heavy auto-cannon more menacing, something that is shared with all other Covenant mounted weapons..- 5əb'7aŋk^(7alk) 16:50, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

Ok so it doesn’t “Officially” say that the dropships use a Light plasma Mortar, but then again “Light plasma mortar” is a name WE made up... There are a few videos out there where it shows a player playing on Forge World and he is facing a Revenant, and gets hit by one of its bolts, also in the “Five Minute Firefight” on Bungie’s update there is again a player who gets hit by the bolt from a Spirit and a Phantom (which use the same weapon) and the same affect happen to both guys…

Also the Concussion Rifle launches a Blue bolt not a red one, and is significantly smaller than that of the Revenant and the dropships weapon (even if they are different), so I would highly doubt that they would be the same… I suggest you both go and watch the “five minute Firefight” videos and pay close attention to the dropships weapons.

Now if you still refuse to let it be posted that the Spirits, Phantoms, and Revenants use the same weapon, then I understand and will summit to your wishes, and will not talk about it again… However, I do ask in return, that if I can provide a clear video test that shows that all these weapons are in fact the same, (once the game comes out). That you would agree to allow me to post my info and use my video(s) as my sources.

And if they aren’t the same I will allow you to say “I told you so!”

Deal?

-The Unbalanced warrior

In the future, please do not restore the previous revision until the dispute is settled. Let's avoid an edit war... >.<

After watching the videos suggested by the Unbalanced Warrior (please sign your post using ~~~~), I am still unable to believe that these dropships are equipped with the so-called Light Plasma Mortar. When comparing the two videos with the E3 Campaign Trailer, I found that both dropships fire the same bolt (albeit different colours) but with the same explosion effects. Also, I came across the information that the E3 Trailer was modified for the E3 event itself. In addition, the Five Minutes Firefight video (near the end of the video) shows that the Concussion Rifle also fires red bolts as pointed out by Jugus. This has been changed from its original blue bolt. Hence, I came to a little conclusion that atfer going gold, during the final development stages, Bungie decided to change the colour of the bolt from blue to red for both vehicle(s) and weapon(s).- 5əb'7aŋk^(7alk) 07:06, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Alright... fair enough, I shall leave the matter alone for now... and I do admit I was wrong about the Concussion Rifle.

But if a can provide sufficient info (via video) by testing out all these weapons once the game comes out will you allow me to post it then, using my video as my source? (if in fact that are the same)

Ps. is this how you do a signature?

The Unbalanced warrior 20:06, August 27, 2010 (UTC)