Archive:Apocalypso Chat

The Apocalypso Chat was a chat with the creators of I Love Bees, who refer to themselves as Puppetmasters on 7 November 2004.

Transcript

Session Start: Sun Nov 07 00:00:00 2004
Session Ident: #apocalypso

[15:32] * vpist[e]ve is now known as vpisteve
[16:09] <vpisteve> Welcome to the Ilovebees PM chat. This chat is moderated and will begin at 2pm, PST. Please see the FAQ at http://tinyurl.com/4vh9t for details on how to submit questions, etc. The Question queue will open up at 1:50. To join the queue, PM one of the channel ops, and they'll put you in line. You will be voiced when it's your turn to ask a question.
[16:20] * fireball scurries about the room, checking the microphones, putting the namecards out, filling the water pitchers (with beer)
[16:21] <Lou> heh
[16:28] <vpisteve> Welcome to the Ilovebees PM chat. This chat is moderated and will begin at 2pm, PST. Please see the FAQ at http://tinyurl.com/4vh9t for details on how to submit questions, etc. The Question queue will open up at 1:50. To join the queue, PM one of the channel ops, and they'll put you in line. You will be voiced when it's your turn to ask a question.
[16:45] <vpisteve> Welcome to the Ilovebees PM chat. This chat is moderated and will begin at 2pm, PST. Please see the FAQ at http://tinyurl.com/4vh9t for details on how to submit questions, etc. The Question queue will open up at 1:50. To join the queue, PM one of the channel ops, and they'll put you in line. You will be voiced when it's your turn to ask a question.
Session Close: Sun Nov 07 16:46:51 2004

Session Start: Sun Nov 07 16:47:29 2004
Session Ident: #apocalypso
[16:47] * Now talking in #apocalypso
[16:53] <vpisteve> Welcome to the Ilovebees PM chat. This chat is moderated and will begin at 2pm, PST. Please see the FAQ at http://tinyurl.com/4vh9t for details on how to submit questions, etc. The Question queue will open up at 1:50. To join the queue, PM one of the channel ops, and they'll put you in line. You will be voiced when it's your turn to ask a question.
[16:53] * Blue is now known as Guest5952150
[16:57] * cather|away is now known as catherwood
[17:00] <vpisteve> Welcome to the Ilovebees PM chat. This chat is moderated and will begin at 2pm, PST. Please see the FAQ at http://tinyurl.com/4vh9t for details on how to submit questions, etc. The Question queue will open up at 1:50. To join the queue, PM one of the channel ops (except me), and they'll put you in line. You will be voiced when it's your turn to ask a question.
[17:03] <vpisteve> No more questions, please
[17:08] <vpisteve> (taps mic) Welcome to the Ilovebees PM Chat. We'd like to thank
[17:08] <vpisteve> the PMs for taking the time to come visit. Before we get started,
[17:08] <vpisteve> I want to go over how everything will work.....
[17:09] <vpisteve> The channel is moderated, so that only those who are "voiced" (with a + next to their name) can talk in channel. If you'd like to ask a question, watch the topic. When it changes to "Questions: YES" you can PM any channel op (with a @ next to their name) and they'll put you in the question queue. When the topic changes back to "Questions: NO," no more PMs will be accepted. Please. do not PM the Puppetmasters...
[17:09] <vpisteve> When it's your turn, I'll call your name and you will be voiced. You can then ask your question. You will be allowed one question and one followup question per turn. The chat is planned to go for two hours.....
[17:09] <vpisteve> First off, I know we all want to congratulate Jim on the new baby boy! :)
[17:09] <Jim> :)
[17:10] <vpisteve> it was fun singing to him :)
[17:10] <Elan> Yay Jim!
[17:10] <vpisteve> So, Elan, why don't you start by introducing us all to your team, and any other opening comments you'd like to make. Then we'll tackle the questions.
[17:10] <Jim> !soren oscar
[17:10] <Elan> right.
[17:11] <Elan> Ok, so we've got Sean Stewart, Jim Stewartson, and Jane Mcgonigal....
[17:11] <Elan> oh, and me.
[17:11] <Elan> Sean was the lead writer, Jim was our tech guru, Jane was our communities expert, and I was the Director. The four of us also made up the core design team.
[17:12] <aab_123> Question: Now [meta], Next [DarkForge]
[17:12] <vpisteve> ok, question time then
[17:12] <meta> To each person (if different), when did your work on the ilovebees ARG start (aproximate month/year)?
[17:12] <Elan> We started working on this project as a team about a year ago.
[17:13] <meta> That's a lot of time and devotion :) Thanks
[17:13] <Elan> Microsoft asked us to think of a way to make Halo 2 a cultural event. They knew the launch was going to be huge, but they wanted the story to show up in unusual places, and they wanted the community to react in a way that the world has never seen before.
[17:13] <sean> so we thought, of coursxe, of bee-infested payphones
[17:13] <sean> as anyone would
[17:14] <vpisteve> followup?
[17:14] <meta> no, i'll let the others go on with their questions. thanks for the time
[17:14] <aab_123> Question: Now [DarkForge], Next[Absentee]
[17:14] <Elan> thanks meta!
[17:14] <DarkForge[la]> I have a question for Jim (congrats again!), who designed Flea++. In particular, I have a question about the use/meaning of the ">>" operator. I translated Edgar Allen Poe's "Tell Tale Heart" into Flea++, and I had a very hard time figuring out how to use >>... it appears to be a highly context-sensitive (logically Intensional?) operator, notoriously challenging to formalize. Do you have a (formal?) write-up for ">>
[17:15] <vpisteve> :o
[17:15] <DarkForge[la]> :-)
[17:15] <Jim> lol. to be perfectly honest, after a while, i started to use the syntax cheat sheet from the wiki :)
[17:15] * Elan is trying hard to keep his hands on the keyboard through bursts of laughter
[17:15] <Jim> the >> was more or less a catch-all for something highly associated with another thing
[17:17] <Lou> followup?
[17:17] <DarkForge[la]> flup: How long did it take to develop? How much time b/w versions 1 2 3...?
[17:17] <krystyn> (and 4!)
[17:17] <Jim> the widow's journey took about 2 weeks to develop. we were up to version 17b when we shipped it
[17:17] <Jim> done
[17:18] <DarkForge[la]> omgwtfbbq thx
[17:18] <aab_123> Question: Now [Absentee], Next[Nova]
[17:18] <fireball> Colin asks: "What was the idea behind using a single site (as compared with the beast, and virtually every other ARG after that, having many sites)?"
[17:18] <Elan> Mostly, we just wanted to try something new. When a genre is this young, it’s all about experimentation. (the project, not being young) So we tried as much new stuff as we could. Sean keeps telling me that next we have to build the carrier pigeon game.
[17:19] <jane> Also, think: Rear Window
[17:19] <Elan> followup?
[17:19] <jane> The feeling of intense narrative developing in a tiny, confined space. (done)
[17:19] <fireball> it was absentee.
[17:19] <aab_123> Question: Now [Nova], Next[sfsdfd]
[17:19] <fireball> no flup
[17:19] <aab_123> heh sorry.
[17:20] <Nova> Hi guys, first of all - even though I know you've heard it before, thanks so much for this great ARG. It's been an absolute pleasure to take part in. My question is related to the story:
[17:20] <Nova> This story has been filled to the brim with intriguing questions. The most enduring mystery, for me at least, was established in the very first chapter and has remained unresolved. What is it about the name Durga that makes Jersey think it's 'at least partly right'? We've speculated many things, the leading theory seeming to be that the name comes from the Hindu goddess. Are we on the right track? If not, what was the real origin? And i
[17:20] <sean> hey
[17:20] <sean> Hindu goddess is your winning answer
[17:21] <sean> There were actually some nice puzzles based on her secret symbol we were thinking of
[17:21] <sean> Back when Jersey's last name was "Singh" it was all slightly more coherent
[17:21] <sean> :)
[17:21] <sean> done
[17:21] <Nova> No followup, save to say thank you for the answer. I've been wondering for a while about that!
[17:21] <aab_123> Question: Now [sfsdfd], Next[ThaJinx]
[17:21] <vpisteve> thx nova
[17:21] <Elan> thx nova
[17:21] <vpisteve> sfsdfd, you're up
[17:21] <sfsdfd> Sean: First, on behalf of everyone, let me say: OMGOMGOMG :) Thanks for rocking our worlds *twice* with incredible stories - some of the greatest stories we've experienced in *any* medium.
[17:22] <sfsdfd> Now for the Q: The variety of puzzles in this game was comparatively limited. Those in AI were much more varied - even recognizing pieces of data as a puzzle was difficult! Was this stylistic shift a decision to keep the story moving at a consistent/predictable pace, or to include a wider audience?
[17:23] <sean> ok
[17:23] <sean> last time out, the answer to a puzzle was, OMGWTFBBQ! I'M a XENOBOTANIST!
[17:23] <sean> a cool experience, but unpredicatable
[17:23] <sean> this time, the basic sol.ution to the puzzle was, OMGWTFBBQ! I LIVE IN TOPEKA!
[17:24] <sean> so yeah, we wanted to make the game more accessible to a broader range of people, and less dependent on high intensity puzzle solving. We were sharply corrected in this inclination
[17:24] <sean> ;0)
[17:24] <sean> done
[17:24] <sean> elan has fp
[17:24] <Elan> probably worth noting that the original game design didn't have any of the sleeping princess puzzles included
[17:25] <sfsdfd> That makes sense. Some puzzles in AI were so tough that they stalled the pipeline. Thanks!
[17:25] <sean> david. very damn forgiving
[17:25] <sean> at least in public
[17:25] <aab_123> Question: Now [ThaJinx], Next[atdt1991]
[17:25] <sean> <smile>
[17:25] <ThaJinx> Hey guys, you're probably sick of it already, but thanks for such an awesome game; part of what drew a lot of us to it was that it was a brilliant way of communicating a brilliant story.
[17:25] <ThaJinx> The motif of bees is just short of overbearing throughout the whole of the game, and it wasn't until the final chapter of the drama that it was revealed to be based around one of Yasmine's memories. At what point in brainstorming or conceptualization did the connection of these two ideas come into existance?
[17:26] <sean> very very very early
[17:26] <sean> usually things are done kinda on the fly, as you will have gathered. But early on, Elan wanted a banal website. I liked bees because they are cute and fuzzy and loveable and everybody is scared of them
[17:27] <sean> As soon as we had bees, I had the last scene in my head--"Allright hone, this will hardly hurt a bit. Just a little sting."
[17:27] <sean> as the crucial link between Yasmine and Margaret
[17:27] <sean> someone else typing, sean done
[17:27] <Elan> Sean used that exact argument to talk me out of my first idea..."Bob's house of hubcaps"
[17:27] <vpisteve> heh
[17:27] <aab_123> Question: Now [atdt1991], Next[anaerin]
[17:28] <ThaJinx> Thanks again :D
[17:28] <atdt1991> Thank you for giving us three months of incredible stories, a five-hour radioplay, and a chance to participate in something great. My question is pretty open: How often did you cruise the forums and chats, and what were your thoughts/feelings while watching us work things out together?
[17:28] <Elan> this is ALL Jane.
[17:28] <jane> I'll take this first, since it was my job to watch 24/7
[17:28] <jane> I will say I have read EVERY Haunteed Apiary Let Op! post, I mean EVERY, and every line of chat in IRC #beekeepers.
[17:29] <catherwood> (that's more than I ever read!)
[17:29] <jane> And everyone on the team received frequent FWD's of posts, excerpts from IRC, etc.
[17:29] <atdt1991> ... wow.
[17:29] <jane> (done from me)
[17:29] <sean> two words: a_plan
[17:29] <sean> jim typing
[17:30] <Jim> i also should say i'm pretty close on jane's heels in terms of lurking on IRC, given that you all were my primary bug testers :)
[17:30] <Jim> (done)
[17:30] <aab_123> Question: Now [anaerin], Next[Absentee]Question: Now [anaerin], Next[Absentee]
[17:30] <jane> P.S. Our thoughts watching you guys was: Wow, they are dramatic and spectacular to watch as anything
[17:30] <aab_123> er... sorry.
[17:31] <Anaerin> Okay, First of all, thanks for the ride. Some of those wavs brought tears. And as for the question, what's the deal with the heartbeat in the background of the wavs? Was it just to create tension, or was it something more?
[17:31] <Elan> this is a tough one.
[17:32] <Elan> Ok, I guess I can just post the spoiler if you'd like?
[17:32] <Anaerin> Please. :)
[17:32] <Elan> Ok, the sound you're refering to was called "the encasement"
[17:33] <Elan> it was designed to make each of the audio files sound "weathered". Like they'd gone through the equivolent of digital hell to get here.
[17:33] <Elan> The sound was put in the background of each file to indicate which had come from the future......
[17:33] <Elan> ....and which had not
[17:33] <Elan> good enough?
[17:33] <Anaerin> That's great! Thanks a lot.
[17:33] <aab_123> Question: Now [Absentee], Next[SkilletAudio]
[17:33] <fireball> Gestas asks: "Where did the jazz that Jersey plays come from? Original or actual piece?"
[17:33] <Elan> no problem. (Trying to leave the remnants of the puzzle in there)
[17:34] <Elan> That's actually a great question for Bob Fagen. (Media producer) We had the luxury of saying, "Bob, we need something incredible here" and then he'd deliver. We're going to try to set up another chat with Bob and the actors to field questions like that.
[17:35] <Elan> in the meantime, is there another question we can answer?
[17:35] <aab_123> Question: Now [SkilletAudio], Next[Cortana]
[17:35] <SkilletAudio|Splotch> First, let me thank you for the most enjoyable gaming experience I've ever witnessed, an entertainment experience that I'll never forget, and for a drama that has touched my heart. Also, Anaerin for speaking the question that I have been banging head to wall over for months. Anyway:
[17:35] <SkilletAudio|Splotch> The players have felt connected personally to the characters, to the point that many of us have been moved to tears at various parts of the story, myself included. I can of course appreciate that you have been affected yourselves by this game, after all I am sure it is a labor of love. In what ways has ILB affected you in ways you couldnt predict?
[17:36] <sean> don't know about "couldn't predict" at first, but I know we all became emotionally invested in teh *players* and the *playing*, too.
[17:36] <Elan> skillet, I remember on one of the first days of the game, you said in IRC, "This is really beautiful. In order for any of us to move foward WE ALL have to move forward." I wanted to find you and buy you lunch.
[17:36] <jane> I developed an irrational LACK of fear of bees.
[17:37] <sean> i told the NYT guy that these two games have, at the risk of sounding corny, completely reaffirmed or exalted my faith in humanity
[17:37] * Elan sees payphones......................EVERYWHERE
[17:37] <sean> what the audience brings is so incredible, the cohesion, creativity, responsiveness...
[17:37] <sean> I said somewhere, and this is not meant as random flattery, that this is a new artform...
[17:37] <jane> yes, watching this game changed my idea of what gamers are capable of.
[17:37] <sean> ...but the audio isn't the art, or the puzzles, or the story
[17:38] <sean> they are designed to precipitate, to catalyze the actual work of art
[17:38] <sean> 'which is you
[17:38] <sean> done
[17:38] <SkilletAudio|Splotch> Flup: Do I get to choose where the lunch is? :) Seriously tho, thanks. Done.
[17:38] <aab_123> Question: Now [Cortana], Next[checksum]
[17:38] <Elan> :)
[17:38] <aab_123> one second.
[17:38] <aab_123> Cort: please hold for a sec.
[17:38] <Cortana> okay
[17:38] <sean> sing something classical while holding, though
[17:39] <sean> entertain us
[17:39] <SpaceBass> I have a followup for Jane..has this game and community changed the opinion you stated in your paper about the Beast?
[17:39] <vpisteve> ha!
[17:39] <aab_123> la la la
[17:39] * Cortana hums along with the mozart
[17:39] <SpaceBass> about how worrisome the blurring of reality and fantasy can be
[17:39] <jane> ah ah ah.. well...
[17:39] <jane> actually, after that first article I wrote another article clarifying my position, which was that blurring the line between reality and fantasy is not worrisome at all
[17:40] <jane> when it it is entirely conscious and strategic on the part of the players doing to the blurring...
[17:40] <jane> I think in this game, you guys wound up doing a lot of unusual and interesting things in the public eye...
[17:41] <jane> that challenged people's expectations of where it's okay to have fiction or play... and that's great. That was part of the point of the game, I think.
[17:41] <jane> My opinion of the community after this game is that you guys can play wherever you want, and the more of you doing it, the better. (done)
[17:41] <aab_123> Cortana?
[17:41] <Cortana> First, thank you (and thank you and thank you). In addition to new friends and a great story, I now know the shortest path between the Smithsonians, Spout Run and Union Station. The live calls provided for a lot of direct interaction between the "seekers" and the "hiders" (if you think of search operas as a grand game of hide and go seek). No doubt, they provided for comedy and drama. Was there a call or two that stick out in you
[17:42] <Cortana> I'm told there's clipping...
[17:42] <Cortana> one second
[17:42] <sean> Crewmember, What is the Enemy of All Mankind?" "...Burger king?"
[17:42] <jane> Dizzy! Dizzy! we loved that
[17:42] <Cortana> No doubt, they provided for comedy and drama. Was there a call or two that stick out in your memory? (side note. carrier pigeon game?)
[17:42] <sean> dragonrider's first about her sister
[17:43] <jane> also loved: zzub zzub. (a bee! a bee!) My cellphone text signature is now "zzub zzub."
[17:43] <Jim> hmrpita and the SP, the kind soul who was willing to sprint and get his guitar for the Op and play Wish You Were Here
[17:43] <sean> DC squad cheer (regular and Princess version)
[17:43] <sean> there are many many many
[17:43] <Elan> Everyone keeps telling me I was too mean, but I *LOVED* making JR run to get his guitar (leaving the phone dangling) Then returning out of breath and shakey, but still delivering a beautiful tune.
[17:43] <Elan> One of my favorite team moments was sitting in instant messenger, each of us silently typing the lyrics to the song as he played for us.
[17:43] <sean> Bagsbee singing Golden Slumbers on the staten island ferry
[17:44] <sean> poor Mallory at Applebees...
[17:44] <jane> Also, we ADORED calling cities where we didn't know if there were very active communities (no thread on UF, for instance), and they would shock us and answer and be brilliant.
[17:44] <sean> pittsburgh! Milwaukee!
[17:44] <jane> Rhode Island!
[17:45] <Elan> done. followup?
[17:45] <sean> done, but only cuz we don't have time for more
[17:45] <Elan> indeed
[17:45] <Cortana> Nope, thanks again :)
[17:45] <aab_123> Question: Now [checksum], Next[ViveRant]
[17:45] <Cortana> (spartan power?)
[17:45] <vpisteve> thx cortana
[17:45] <vpisteve> ViveRant, you're up
[17:45] <checksum> Hello and thank y'all! Well, I'm really tempted to ask about a_pawn, but instead, my question is an open-ended one. What about this ARG's behind-the-scene activities would we players find most interesting, but that we'd have no idea to ask you about because we weren't there with you?
[17:45] <Elan> spartanpower: fluke
[17:45] <vpisteve> er, checksum :P
[17:45] <Elan> wow. there's a great question
[17:46] <vpisteve> reminder: no questions right now, pls
[17:46] <sean> <getting it out of the way: the prep puzzle sucked, we're sorry, don't ask)
[17:46] <jane> I think the process of Payphone Scouting was pretty interesting...
[17:47] <sean> We touched a little on the DVD on the studio work. It was fascinating working with really good actors, and then...
[17:47] <jane> although our lead payphone scout is not in this chat right now, I think many of you would find very interesting the extremely intense stories from traveling all over the country hunting donw payphones.
[17:47] <sean> we had to kind of semi-invent a very particular kind of audio. This p-o-v mic thing, with no ambient sound from location, was very novel.
[17:48] <jane> (although many of you have your own extremely intense stories traveling all over hunting down payphones, come to think of it ;) )
[17:48] <sean> Elan and Roland sat down and drew blueprints of every set for every scene. Then we moved all the actors various distances from their mics, according to how close they were to the pov...
[17:48] <sean> so we could create and keep consistent a sort of sonic landscape
[17:48] <sean> it was fascinating to me, anyway.
[17:48] <sean> done
[17:48] <checksum> In followup to Sean's answer...
[17:49] <Elan> another good one is how much we end up caring about the players. When Weephun betrayed the princess, we all sat around thinking "Whoa, are we really gonna mess with this guy? Can he take it?"
[17:49] <checksum> How did the studio recording go, i.e. did the actors take to the parts easily/was the recording a long process or did it fly by, etc.
[17:50] <Elan> there was this really beautiful relationship that builds out of playing with each other for so many consecutive days
[17:50] <checksum> (and Elan, yeah, in the future, we love it when you mess with us)
[17:50] <Elan> :)
[17:50] <sean> varied by actor
[17:50] <sean> ...
[17:50] <aab_123> Question: Now [ViveRant], Next[Absentee]
[17:50] <sean> some hit it instantly from the first moment of casting (Jan/Kari)
[17:51] <sean> others took to it more slowly
[17:51] <sean> also, as writers we learned to write to each actors strengths
[17:51] <ViVeRANT`> Just wanted to say a quick thanks for making think Durga was hiding in my thermostat every morning while I was eating breakfast... :p For my Question:
[17:51] <ViVeRANT`> Outside of the axons in the UK where there plans to go to other continents or countries or was that a mid-game decision? (ie cover the same ground as the halo2 website)
[17:51] <sean> and they in turn got more comfortable with the sound of the scripts, so I could stop saying, "Aaron Sorkin/Tom Stoppard" in the funny bits and "WWII movies!" for other stuff.
[17:52] <Elan> When I first pitched the game, I was asked "How many payphones should we ring?" Answer: "All of them". I was slowly pulled back into reality. The foreign payphones are remnants of "thinking big".
[17:53] <Elan> followup?
[17:53] <ViVeRANT`> Nope just wish technology would have allowed you to come up north :)
[17:53] <ViVeRANT`> thanks done
[17:53] <aab_123> Question: Now [Absentee], Next[LasPalmas7]
[17:53] <fireball> Rose asks: "I know it took us a couple of days to find the text snippets, assemble The Widow's Journey (named by Rob Magus in chat by the way), translate the SP's strange email, and for xnbomb to correlate the text with the SPDR program language...was there an aha! moment at which you knew that the lightbulbs over our heads had turned on and we were finally getting it?"
[17:53] <sean> fp
[17:54] <sean> Canadian payphones don't take incoming by law. Tried some anyway (Canadian here!@) Sorry!
[17:54] <aab_123> sure... ;)
[17:54] <Elan> This is a question for the author of the flea.....Jim?
[17:55] <Jim> yes, there were several days there, where we were not sure if that moment would come. when we read xnbomb's post, we knew it would happen...
[17:55] <sean> jim and I brooded like anxious hens over the whole process.
[17:55] <sean> done?
[17:55] <aab_123> Question: Now [LasPalmas7], Next[Kybard]
[17:55] <aab_123> er. sorry.
[17:55] <aab_123> still Jim.
[17:56] <Jim> followup?
[17:56] <fireball> Go on to LasPalmas7
[17:56] <LasPalmas7> ILB me cry/laugh/shive(Reminded me of a old game called Portal). Thank you so much. I love you all. Question have allready been answered. So all I have is love..
[17:57] <aab_123> Question: Now [Kybard], Next[AgentMunroe]
[17:57] <Elan> thanks Laspalmas!!
[17:57] <Kybard> First - when I'm proud and amazingly happy to have stuck with you guys, the beekeepers, and ILB for the duration of the game, I do this: :D! -- Anyway, my question's for Jane... I want to ask about your experience in handling the e-mails we sent to Dana.
[17:57] <Kybard> Particularly in the pre-8/24 game, I think that the back-and-forth communication with Dana was key to getting a lot of people more interested and immersed in what was going on. Ca