Editing Template talk:Timeline
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The Following is from various pages: | The Following is from various pages: | ||
==Eds Formating Project== | ==Eds Formating Project== | ||
Talk:Timeline | [[Talk:Timeline]] | ||
Before I undertake this project, I'm going to explain it right here so everyone will understand. I think this page is too big and cumbersome to be of much use. So I'm going to split it into articles for each year. At the same time, I'm going to make a seperate "production" timeline from a real world point of view. That way, the timelines are more organized, attractive and useful. -ED 03:16, 25 August 2006 (UTC) | Before I undertake this project, I'm going to explain it right here so everyone will understand. I think this page is too big and cumbersome to be of much use. So I'm going to split it into articles for each year. At the same time, I'm going to make a seperate "production" timeline from a real world point of view. That way, the timelines are more organized, attractive and useful. -ED 03:16, 25 August 2006 (UTC) | ||
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::Where did the real-world timeline end up? --[[User talk:Andrew Nagy|Andrew Nagy]] 07:30, 7 June 2009 (UTC) | ::Where did the real-world timeline end up? --[[User talk:Andrew Nagy|Andrew Nagy]] 07:30, 7 June 2009 (UTC) | ||
Talk:2552 | [[Talk:2552]] | ||
I suggest that we make a number of articles for each important year (2517, 2525, 2552, etc.) and put them all into a category: Timeline. At the same time, we could make a "2001 Productions", "2002 Productions", etc to cover the real world history of the developments and releases in the Halo universe. Another idea similar to the one at memory-alpha.org. -[[User:ED|ED]] | I suggest that we make a number of articles for each important year (2517, 2525, 2552, etc.) and put them all into a category: Timeline. At the same time, we could make a "2001 Productions", "2002 Productions", etc to cover the real world history of the developments and releases in the Halo universe. Another idea similar to the one at memory-alpha.org. -[[User:ED|ED]] | ||
:Done | :Done | ||
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I've been noticing the template page a lot lately and thought it could use some revisions: | I've been noticing the template page a lot lately and thought it could use some revisions: | ||
*'''Remove "Military Calendar"''' — A significant portion of the dates on this timeline fall before the formation of the United Nations Space Command and do not adhere to the concept of the Gregorian military calendar. Considering that everything in the universe is already pretty much written to Earth standards (12 month years, 24 hour days), including Forerunner and Covenant subjects, and that a number of newer products for don't include military calendar in time and setting entries, this is an antiquated inclusion. | *'''Remove "Military Calendar"''' — A significant portion of the dates on this timeline fall before the formation of the United Nations Space Command and do not adhere to the concept of the Gregorian [[Military Calendar|military calendar]]. Considering that everything in the universe is already pretty much written to Earth standards (12 month years, 24 hour days), including Forerunner and Covenant subjects, and that a number of newer products for don't include military calendar in time and setting entries, this is an antiquated inclusion. | ||
*'''Separate out real-world years from fictional''' — As it is noted in "military calendar", real-world years really wouldn't apply to a fictional application of time even if they do share the same standards. Including real-world years (1999-2015) seems like more happened in the universe in our own time than actually did, which is very little when it only applies to ''i love bees'' and the non-canon ''Dead or Alive 4''. We don't need to create separate pages like ''2004 (Universe)'' and ''2004 (Real World)'', but rather create a wholly separate scroll list for these dates. The pages themselves would remain separated by in-universe and real-world sections. | *'''Separate out real-world years from fictional''' — As it is noted in "military calendar", real-world years really wouldn't apply to a fictional application of time even if they do share the same standards. Including real-world years (1999-2015) seems like more happened in the universe in our own time than actually did, which is very little when it only applies to ''i love bees'' and the non-canon ''Dead or Alive 4''. We don't need to create separate pages like ''2004 (Universe)'' and ''2004 (Real World)'', but rather create a wholly separate scroll list for these dates. The pages themselves would remain separated by in-universe and real-world sections. | ||
{{User:Helianthus/Sig}} | {{User:Helianthus/Sig}} | ||
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I've been wanting to mention this for a while but I kept forgetting. Anyways, I feel that the real-world years we use to list ''Halo'' releases should not be included on a template that was designed to list events by year within the ''Halo''verse. We could create a separate template that lists each of the real-world years, or just merge all those articles into a single article like "List of ''Halo'' releases by year" or etc. It just seems a little confusing to have real-world events listed alongside in-universe events.--{{User:Spartacus/Sig}} 11:06, 4 September 2015 (EDT) | I've been wanting to mention this for a while but I kept forgetting. Anyways, I feel that the real-world years we use to list ''Halo'' releases should not be included on a template that was designed to list events by year within the ''Halo''verse. We could create a separate template that lists each of the real-world years, or just merge all those articles into a single article like "List of ''Halo'' releases by year" or etc. It just seems a little confusing to have real-world events listed alongside in-universe events.--{{User:Spartacus/Sig}} 11:06, 4 September 2015 (EDT) | ||
:Agreed. I think we should just have a separate timeline for the real-world years. Always good to keep fiction and out-of-universe content separate. Here is Wookieepedia's template for reference, but we don't have nearly enough real-world years as they do. --[[User:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">'''NightHammer'''</span>]]''<sup>[[User talk:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(talk)</span>]]</sup><sup>[[Special:Contributions/NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(contribs)</span>]]</sup>'' 11:20, 4 September 2015 (EDT) | :Agreed. I think we should just have a separate timeline for the real-world years. Always good to keep fiction and out-of-universe content separate. Here is [[wikia:starwars:Template:Years-RealWorld|Wookieepedia's template]] for reference, but we don't have nearly enough real-world years as they do. --[[User:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">'''NightHammer'''</span>]]''<sup>[[User talk:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(talk)</span>]]</sup><sup>[[Special:Contributions/NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(contribs)</span>]]</sup>'' 11:20, 4 September 2015 (EDT) | ||
::With regard to Wookieepedia's format, they also don't have the unfortunate problem of their fictional years overlapping with real ones, which would mean we'd end up with pages with titles like "2004 (real-world)" if we want to include the canonical ''ILB'' and ''Iris'' material in their own fiction-centric year articles. 2021 will also face this issue in a few years. That said, I do support separating the timelines somehow, even if it means adding the "(real-world)" disambiguation to the titles that need it. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 03:39, 5 September 2015 (EDT) | ::With regard to Wookieepedia's format, they also don't have the unfortunate problem of their fictional years overlapping with real ones, which would mean we'd end up with pages with titles like "2004 (real-world)" if we want to include the canonical ''ILB'' and ''Iris'' material in their own fiction-centric year articles. [[2021]] will also face this issue in a few years. That said, I do support separating the timelines somehow, even if it means adding the "(real-world)" disambiguation to the titles that need it. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 03:39, 5 September 2015 (EDT) | ||
:::How about an easier solution such as tagging each entry (i.e. the sentence at the end) with a visible notice informing readers that the entry is a real-world content and not part of the fictional Halo universe? In other words, we add an Appearance template but make it stand out like so: <span style="border:1px solid #000; background:#ABCDEF; padding:0 4px;">Real-world</span>. It's easier to execute and to maintain. — <span style="font-size:14px; font-family:Arial;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span> 11:46, 5 September 2015 (EDT) | :::How about an easier solution such as tagging each entry (i.e. the sentence at the end) with a visible notice informing readers that the entry is a real-world content and not part of the fictional Halo universe? In other words, we add an [[:Category:Appearance templates|Appearance template]] but make it stand out like so: <span style="border:1px solid #000; background:#ABCDEF; padding:0 4px;">Real-world</span>. It's easier to execute and to maintain. — <span style="font-size:14px; font-family:Arial;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span> 11:46, 5 September 2015 (EDT) | ||
::::Yeah, that could work. I was going to say creation separate sections for real-world and canon dates but, this might be an easier way. Plus, I doubt any canon dates will be placed in the upcoming real-life years now, as is the case with 2021. --[[User:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">'''NightHammer'''</span>]]''<sup>[[User talk:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(talk)</span>]]</sup><sup>[[Special:Contributions/NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(contribs)</span>]]</sup>'' 11:59, 5 September 2015 (EDT) | ::::Yeah, that could work. I was going to say creation separate sections for real-world and canon dates but, this might be an easier way. Plus, I doubt any canon dates will be placed in the upcoming real-life years now, as is the case with 2021. --[[User:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">'''NightHammer'''</span>]]''<sup>[[User talk:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(talk)</span>]]</sup><sup>[[Special:Contributions/NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(contribs)</span>]]</sup>'' 11:59, 5 September 2015 (EDT) | ||
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::::::Creating two separate sections for each one would only work decently enough if we don't get too much canon dates in a year like 2016 for example. Otherwise, the page wouldn't look that great. --[[User:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">'''NightHammer'''</span>]]''<sup>[[User talk:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(talk)</span>]]</sup><sup>[[Special:Contributions/NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(contribs)</span>]]</sup>'' 12:43, 5 September 2015 (EDT) | ::::::Creating two separate sections for each one would only work decently enough if we don't get too much canon dates in a year like 2016 for example. Otherwise, the page wouldn't look that great. --[[User:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">'''NightHammer'''</span>]]''<sup>[[User talk:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(talk)</span>]]</sup><sup>[[Special:Contributions/NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(contribs)</span>]]</sup>'' 12:43, 5 September 2015 (EDT) | ||
So I am working on a redesign of this template as a draft here, which I believe solves the problem of real-world and in-universe being listed together. I condensed the years into sections based on this page, while adding a ''Real World'' section. This also solves the problem of having to scroll endlessly to find a certain year. Any thoughts on this?--{{User:Spartacus/Sig}} 13:04, 14 October 2015 (EDT) | So I am working on a redesign of this template as a draft [[User:Spartacus/Sandbox|here]], which I believe solves the problem of real-world and in-universe being listed together. I condensed the years into sections based on [[Halopedia:Projects/Timeline/Eras|this page]], while adding a ''Real World'' section. This also solves the problem of having to scroll endlessly to find a certain year. Any thoughts on this?--{{User:Spartacus/Sig}} 13:04, 14 October 2015 (EDT) | ||
:Looks good. My only (minor) issue is maybe renaming some of the sections, such as "Forerunner Era" to "Prehistory" perhaps. And I think that maybe we could use different templates for the real-world and canon dates so we don't have OOU stuff in canon articles, but we still have the problem of canon material overlapping with real-world years. --[[User:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">'''NightHammer'''</span>]]''<sup>[[User talk:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(talk)</span>]]</sup><sup>[[Special:Contributions/NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(contribs)</span>]]</sup>'' 13:21, 14 October 2015 (EDT) | :Looks good. My only (minor) issue is maybe renaming some of the sections, such as "Forerunner Era" to "Prehistory" perhaps. And I think that maybe we could use different templates for the real-world and canon dates so we don't have OOU stuff in canon articles, but we still have the problem of canon material overlapping with real-world years. --[[User:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">'''NightHammer'''</span>]]''<sup>[[User talk:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(talk)</span>]]</sup><sup>[[Special:Contributions/NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(contribs)</span>]]</sup>'' 13:21, 14 October 2015 (EDT) | ||
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:I was thinking we could have something like a back button or a forward button for the timeline. | :I was thinking we could have something like a back button or a forward button for the timeline. | ||
:Like if you were on the year 2552, you could click the back button to go back to 2551 or forward to go to 2553. | :Like if you were on the year [[2552]], you could click the back button to go back to [[2551]] or forward to go to [[2553]]. | ||
:It could be done like the infoboxes in the event pages(Example) with a previous section that would link the previous year. And a next section that would link the following year that had an event in it. | :It could be done like the infoboxes in the event pages([[Battle of Installation 04|Example]]) with a previous section that would link the previous year. And a next section that would link the following year that had an event in it. | ||
As said this is only a suggestion. But one I feel could make the user experience that little bit better for this. I noticed this inconvenience when I was going through the timeline from start to finish. It was getting a little tedious looking on the Template for the date I want. - [[User:CIA391|CIA391]] ([[User talk:CIA391|talk]]) 04:21, 3 May 2016 (EDT) | As said this is only a suggestion. But one I feel could make the user experience that little bit better for this. I noticed this inconvenience when I was going through the timeline from start to finish. It was getting a little tedious looking on the Template for the date I want. - [[User:CIA391|CIA391]] ([[User talk:CIA391|talk]]) 04:21, 3 May 2016 (EDT) | ||
:That would be pretty neat, I think something like Wikipedia's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Year_nav Year nav] template could work. In any case, I think the Timeline template should be kept, for obvious reasons. -- [[User:Topal the Pilot|'''Topal the Pilot''']] <small>([[User talk:Topal the Pilot|<span style="color:green">'''Talk'''</span>]]|[[Special:Contributions/Topal the Pilot|<span style="color:green">'''Contribs'''</span>]])</small> 04:40, 3 May 2016 (EDT) | :That would be pretty neat, I think something like Wikipedia's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Year_nav Year nav] template could work. In any case, I think the Timeline template should be kept, for obvious reasons. -- [[User:Topal the Pilot|'''Topal the Pilot''']] [[File:Blueteam.png|20px]] <small>([[User talk:Topal the Pilot|<span style="color:green">'''Talk'''</span>]]|[[Special:Contributions/Topal the Pilot|<span style="color:green">'''Contribs'''</span>]])</small> 04:40, 3 May 2016 (EDT) | ||
::I am not against the template It great. :) Just with 198 years with events in it(and only to grow), this suggestion paired with the template would make things easier for users in a small way. -[[User:CIA391|CIA391]] ([[User talk:CIA391|talk]]) 05:38, 3 May 2016 (EDT) | ::I am not against the template It great. :) Just with 198 years with events in it(and only to grow), this suggestion paired with the template would make things easier for users in a small way. -[[User:CIA391|CIA391]] ([[User talk:CIA391|talk]]) 05:38, 3 May 2016 (EDT) | ||
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As per the new changes, is "next" and "previous" for the previous and subsequent year (for example, 2555's next is 2556 and previous is 2554) or are we placing the next and previous year that exists on the timeline (for example, 2170's next is 2178 and previous is 2165)? If the former, we should probably make it so we can hide the "previous" and "next" fields. --[[User:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">'''NightHammer'''</span>]]''<sup>[[User talk:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(talk)</span>]]</sup><sup>[[Special:Contributions/NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(contribs)</span>]]</sup>'' 16:07, 2 August 2016 (EDT) | As per the new changes, is "next" and "previous" for the previous and subsequent year (for example, 2555's next is 2556 and previous is 2554) or are we placing the next and previous year that exists on the timeline (for example, 2170's next is 2178 and previous is 2165)? If the former, we should probably make it so we can hide the "previous" and "next" fields. --[[User:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">'''NightHammer'''</span>]]''<sup>[[User talk:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(talk)</span>]]</sup><sup>[[Special:Contributions/NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(contribs)</span>]]</sup>'' 16:07, 2 August 2016 (EDT) | ||
:It's the latter, as per this request. — <span style="font-size:14px; font-family:Arial;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span> 10:51, 3 August 2016 (EDT) | :It's the latter, as per [[Halopedia_talk:Community#Timeline_wip_reset|this request]]. — <span style="font-size:14px; font-family:Arial;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span> 10:51, 3 August 2016 (EDT) | ||
::Alright, thanks, that's what I figured. I'll see if I have time today to update the timeline pages. --[[User:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">'''NightHammer'''</span>]]''<sup>[[User talk:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(talk)</span>]]</sup><sup>[[Special:Contributions/NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(contribs)</span>]]</sup>'' 10:52, 3 August 2016 (EDT) | ::Alright, thanks, that's what I figured. I'll see if I have time today to update the timeline pages. --[[User:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">'''NightHammer'''</span>]]''<sup>[[User talk:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(talk)</span>]]</sup><sup>[[Special:Contributions/NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(contribs)</span>]]</sup>'' 10:52, 3 August 2016 (EDT) | ||
:::You can see a couple of working examples here: 2610, 500,000,000 BCE and 100,000,000,000 BCE. — <span style="font-size:14px; font-family:Arial;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span> 11:09, 3 August 2016 (EDT) | :::You can see a couple of working examples here: [[2610]], [[500,000,000 BCE]] and 100,000,000,000 BCE. — <span style="font-size:14px; font-family:Arial;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span> 11:09, 3 August 2016 (EDT) | ||
==Colour in the template== | ==Colour in the template== | ||
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:Agreed. I'm particularly uncomfortable about the use of our informal era system in such a prominent place, and with the "Previous" and "Next" arrows, the template should be easy enough to navigate now even without the subsections. --[[User:Jugus|Jugus]] ([[User talk:Jugus|talk]]) 13:46, 13 September 2016 (EDT) | :Agreed. I'm particularly uncomfortable about the use of our informal era system in such a prominent place, and with the "Previous" and "Next" arrows, the template should be easy enough to navigate now even without the subsections. --[[User:Jugus|Jugus]] ([[User talk:Jugus|talk]]) 13:46, 13 September 2016 (EDT) | ||
::I agree with the point about Era names and intend to change those, I was more or less using them as a placeholder (best idea there would be to divide the list into BCE and CE). However, I think the list should at least be divided up in some way into common years, as well as separating the years with real-world only events (there's only ''two'' duplicates, 1999 and 2004). Previous and next only works if the reader wishes to go directly to the next or previous year. However, if the reader intends to go from 2552 to 852 BCE or vice-versa, that's quite a lot of scrolling (which is a pain since the scrollbar always defaults to the top), which will only get longer with the addition of more years.--{{User:Spartacus/Sig}} 14:02, 13 September 2016 (EDT) | ::I agree with the point about Era names and intend to change those, I was more or less using them as a placeholder (best idea there would be to divide the list into BCE and CE). However, I think the list should at least be divided up in some way into common years, as well as separating the years with real-world only events (there's only ''two'' duplicates, 1999 and 2004). Previous and next only works if the reader wishes to go directly to the next or previous year. However, if the reader intends to go from 2552 to 852 BCE or vice-versa, that's quite a lot of scrolling (which is a pain since the scrollbar always defaults to the top), which will only get longer with the addition of more years.--{{User:Spartacus/Sig}} 14:02, 13 September 2016 (EDT) | ||
:::I've been trying out some designs and the best compromise is the implementation of the "next/previous" feature. Other wikis such as Wookieepdia (which had little to no articles on years) and Wikipedia (which struggled with the rapid development of real-world events) are unable to provide guidance on constructing a good timeline template. What we can do with the concept of "common years" is to create articles on those "common years" (i.e. an article on 2550s, like Wikipedia's 1990s) while avoiding using fan-made/pseudo-official era titles. If these proposals can be agreed, I'll proceed with reverting the template to its previous design.— <span style="font-size:14px; font-family:Arial;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span> 13:21, 18 September 2016 (EDT) | :::I've been trying out some designs and the best compromise is the implementation of the "next/previous" feature. Other wikis such as Wookieepdia (which had little to no articles on years) and Wikipedia (which struggled with the rapid development of real-world events) are unable to provide guidance on constructing a good timeline template. What we can do with the concept of "common years" is to create articles on those "common years" (i.e. an article on 2550s, like Wikipedia's [[wikipedia:1990s|1990s]]) while avoiding using fan-made/pseudo-official era titles. If these proposals can be agreed, I'll proceed with reverting the template to its previous design.— <span style="font-size:14px; font-family:Arial;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span> 13:21, 18 September 2016 (EDT) | ||
Can we get rid of the giant obnoxious box that goes with each page for a year so that it only contains "previous" and "next"?{{Unsigned|TheEld}} | Can we get rid of the giant obnoxious box that goes with each page for a year so that it only contains "previous" and "next"?{{Unsigned|TheEld}} | ||
:Mind giving a bit more detail? — <span style="font-size:14px; font-family:Arial;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span> 12:28, 1 September 2017 (EDT) | :Mind giving a bit more detail? — <span style="font-size:14px; font-family:Arial;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span> 12:28, 1 September 2017 (EDT) | ||
::I was hoping we could make the Timeline infobox on each page it appears on a simple box that just contains links to the previous and next years instead of also having a giant section that splits up history into arbitray categories, etc. Look at the page for 2553, for example. I'd like to put in an image for January but can't due to the unwieldy infobox.[[User:TheEld|TheEld]] ([[User talk:TheEld|talk]]) 12:57, 1 September 2017 (EDT) | ::I was hoping we could make the Timeline infobox on each page it appears on a simple box that just contains links to the previous and next years instead of also having a giant section that splits up history into arbitray categories, etc. Look at the page for [[2553]], for example. I'd like to put in an image for January but can't due to the unwieldy infobox.[[User:TheEld|TheEld]] ([[User talk:TheEld|talk]]) 12:57, 1 September 2017 (EDT) | ||
:::Firstly, those aren't arbitrary categories; they are based off Halo Mythos (see Project: Timeline). Secondly, there is no need for an infobox because most of the articles about the years are too short and are already concise/summarised enough. It seems like your issue is essentially the obstruction of the template with the placement of your image. I guess what we can do for now is to change the design while maintaining the categories. — <span style="font-size:14px; font-family:Arial;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span> 13:13, 1 September 2017 (EDT) | :::Firstly, those aren't arbitrary categories; they are based off [[Halo Mythos]] (see [[Project: Timeline]]). Secondly, there is no need for an infobox because most of the articles about the years are too short and are already concise/summarised enough. It seems like your issue is essentially the obstruction of the template with the placement of your image. I guess what we can do for now is to change the design while maintaining the categories. — <span style="font-size:14px; font-family:Arial;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span> 13:13, 1 September 2017 (EDT) | ||
:::IMO, the scroll box is too useful to be removed (with the ability to jump at any given year from any year page) but I do think the arbitrary categories should be dispensed with. --[[User:Jugus|Jugus]] ([[User talk:Jugus|talk]]) 13:11, 1 September 2017 (EDT) | :::IMO, the scroll box is too useful to be removed (with the ability to jump at any given year from any year page) but I do think the arbitrary categories should be dispensed with. --[[User:Jugus|Jugus]] ([[User talk:Jugus|talk]]) 13:11, 1 September 2017 (EDT) | ||