Editing Talk:Sangheili

From Halopedia, the Halo wiki

You are not logged in. Your IP address will be publicly visible if you make any edits. If you log in or create an account, your edits will be attributed to your username, along with other benefits.

The edit can be undone. Please check the comparison below to verify that this is what you want to do, and then publish the changes below to finish undoing the edit.

Latest revision Your text
Line 27: Line 27:
:The entire situation with the Human-Covenant War is essentially an [[wikipedia:Excession#Outside_Context_Problem|Outer Context Problem]]. To use examples from the events of World War Two is wrong: those empires/governments/factions are similar in terms of military technological achievement. The easiest and best example of understanding how the Human-Covenant War was fought is to look back to events during the expansion of the Old Empires (i.e. British, Spanish, Dutch, French) on native lands of the Americas, Indian Seas, Africa and the islands near Australia, where most native empires are driven to extinction. Military commanders have the tendency to be bold (and make rash decision) when they are technologically superior than their opponent, eventually underestimating their opponent's abilities (i.e. recent example being Afghanistan War and the '60s-'80s Vietnam War). — <span style="font-size:14px; font-family:Arial;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span>  21:52, 30 October 2012 (EDT)
:The entire situation with the Human-Covenant War is essentially an [[wikipedia:Excession#Outside_Context_Problem|Outer Context Problem]]. To use examples from the events of World War Two is wrong: those empires/governments/factions are similar in terms of military technological achievement. The easiest and best example of understanding how the Human-Covenant War was fought is to look back to events during the expansion of the Old Empires (i.e. British, Spanish, Dutch, French) on native lands of the Americas, Indian Seas, Africa and the islands near Australia, where most native empires are driven to extinction. Military commanders have the tendency to be bold (and make rash decision) when they are technologically superior than their opponent, eventually underestimating their opponent's abilities (i.e. recent example being Afghanistan War and the '60s-'80s Vietnam War). — <span style="font-size:14px; font-family:Arial;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span>  21:52, 30 October 2012 (EDT)


A tactical fleet that loses more men than the enemy is no true tactical fleet --[[Special:Contributions/90.198.194.108|90.198.194.108]] 06:10, 24 August 2015 (EDT)
::In the beginning of the war the covenant didn't even bother with a ground battle. They just glassed planets. In HW the Humans won because the sentinels wanted them to. The Covenant cared about earth due to the portal and not about other inner colonies. And again, the Humans won because the Forerunners set it all up. If the forerunners didn't pass the mantle then the covenant would have won. And the San'Shyuum "poisoned" the Sangheili minds by instilling the ideas of Honor during infancy.
 
World history and logic disagrees with you. [[User:Alertfiend|Alertfiend]] ([[User talk:Alertfiend|talk]]) 08:01, 24 August 2015 (EDT)


==Life expectancy==
==Life expectancy==
Line 48: Line 46:
-[[User:ScaleMaster117|ScaleMaster117]] ([[User talk:ScaleMaster117|talk]]) 16:45, 20 September 2013 (EDT)
-[[User:ScaleMaster117|ScaleMaster117]] ([[User talk:ScaleMaster117|talk]]) 16:45, 20 September 2013 (EDT)


:Well they most likely age at a different rate, Jul is probably in what would be a human's 30s, is what I would guess. [[User:Spartansniper450/IRC Quotes|<span style="color:#000000">''Col.''</span>]] [[User:Spartansniper450|<span style="color:#00416A">Snipes</span>]][[User talk:Spartansniper450|<span style="color:gold">4</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Spartansniper450|<span style="color:silver">50</span>]] 17:49, 20 September 2013 (EDT)
:Well they most likely age at a different rate, Jul is probably in what would be a human's 30s, is what I would guess. [[File:Colonel Grade One.png|20px]][[User:Spartansniper450/IRC Quotes|<span style="color:#000000">''Col.''</span>]] [[User:Spartansniper450|<span style="color:#00416A">Snipes</span>]][[User talk:Spartansniper450|<span style="color:gold">4</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Spartansniper450|<span style="color:silver">50</span>]][[File:Colonel Grade One.png|20px]] 17:49, 20 September 2013 (EDT)


Thanks for answers, guys. And I know "sapient" would have been a better word to use; I was just in a bit of a hurry when I wrote that.  
Thanks for answers, guys. And I know "sapient" would have been a better word to use; I was just in a bit of a hurry when I wrote that.  
Line 56: Line 54:
== Vision ==
== Vision ==


Sangheili are colourblind. They cannot see purple. The entire time they thought that they were using blue. Their visual spectrum ranges from Blue to the infrabrown range. Therefore it can be assumed that they do not have a word for purple and instead they use other species' words to describe colours in the purple region that they cannot see. Josh Holmes and Frankie conformed that on Twitter. Check my Twitter for the source because I cannot link you since I am on mobile phone. My account is: @TheMasterBuild1 {{Unsigned|The Master Builder}}
Sangheili are colourblind. They cannot see purple. The entire time they thought that they were using blue. Their visual spectrum ranges from Blue to the infrabrown range. Therefore it can be assumed that they do not have a word for purple and instead they use other species' words to describe colours in the purple region that they cannot see. Josh Holmes and Frankie conformed that on Twitter. Check my Twitter for the source because I cannot link you since I am on mobile phone. My account is: @TheMasterBuild1 {{Unsigned|‎The Master Builder}}


:[https://twitter.com/JoshingtonState/status/458279139850858497 For ease of reference]. Anyway, what is confirmed by the the staff is this: Elites are [[wikipedia:Dichromacy|dichromats]] <s>and they cannot perceive blue (tritanopia)</s>. Not so sure what is meant by "infrabrown range". Other than that is MasterBuilder's own speculation. — <span style="font-size:14px; font-family:Arial;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span>  15:05, 21 April 2014 (EDT)
:[https://twitter.com/JoshingtonState/status/458279139850858497 For ease of reference]. Anyway, what is confirmed by the the staff is this: Elites are [[wikipedia:Dichromacy|dichromats]] <s>and they cannot perceive blue (tritanopia)</s>. Not so sure what is meant by "infrabrown range". Other than that is MasterBuilder's own speculation. — <span style="font-size:14px; font-family:Arial;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span>  15:05, 21 April 2014 (EDT)
Nobody said that they are dichromats, only that they see our purple as blue. We should ask Frankie for clarification. About infra brown; brown is made of black,yellow and red and covers many wavelengths. We should state only that Sangheili see purple as blue. {{Unsigned|The Master Builder}}
Nobody said that they are dichromats, only that they see our purple as blue. We should ask Frankie for clarification. About infra brown; brown is made of black,yellow and red and covers many wavelengths. We should state only that Sangheili see purple as blue. {{Unsigned|‎The Master Builder}}
 
:Considering the source linked sounds entirely like a joke at Mr. O'Connor's expense, I would err on the side of doubt until we get a more official source for it. -- [[User:Morhek|<b><font color=indigo>Qura 'Morhek</font></b>]] [[halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>The Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>of Morheka</sup></font></i></u>]] 06:59, 22 April 2014 (EDT)
 
For now we should leave it as it is. What we can do is bombard 343i on Twitter about the subject. I can get a couple of Archivers to assist.{{Unsigned|The Master Builder}}
 
I added a template tag for "Verify_Source" as I don't believe there are any merits to including this colour vision issue in the article. The first problem is that due to the tweet no longer being available, it's now very difficult for people to assess the context within which the tweet was made. Was it a serious observation or comment on the canon, or just something made in jest? Looking at the text of the tweet, above, it seems to have been a friendly jibe at Frank O'Conner's expense as opposed to a proper comment on the fiction.
 
I think that what Morhek said here years ago was the most sensible course of action - hold out until a more reliable source comes up. A more reliable source is needed in my opinion because this out-of-context tweet is actually challenging years of established canon regarding what colours we have seen Sangheili characters comment on. Throughout canon (both new and old) there are several references to Sangheili commenting on red colours as well as blues, which means that the article is wrong in claiming that Sangheili lack an analogue for the L-cone receptor. The ability for them to distinguish red and blue also challenges the idea that they can't see purple, as purple is composed of blue and red light wavelengths leaving a material's surface and both being detected by the eye. The argument that they are merely using other species' names for red doesn't make sense, as they would be unable to distinguish red materials (from a human point of view) in order to know when to use that word. What they would see would either be grey if the material only had red light leaving its surface - or some other colour that they could see if there were other wavelengths of light leaving the surface that they could detect.
 
Finally, the word "infrabrown" - as far as I can tell it doesn't mean anything. Top google results just reveal discussions about this exact topic on some Halo sites, followed by a deluge of social media handles. Infra means "before", so "Infrared" for example only makes sense because red is on the EM spectrum of wavelength where we can apply concepts such as "before" and "after" with reference to another wavelength on that spectrum. Brown isn't on the EM spectrum so "infrabrown" makes no sense. There is no "before brown".
 
In light of these points I believe that this should be removed. - Voka


:Yep - looks like yet another case of fans taking a half-joking dev comment a bit too seriously. --[[User:Tacitus|Tacitus]] ([[User talk:Tacitus|talk]]) 11:59, 18 November 2018 (EST)
:Considering the source linked sounds entirely like a joke at Mr. O'Connor's expense, I would err on the side of doubt until we get a more official source for it. -- [[User:Morhek|<b><font color=indigo>Qura 'Morhek</font></b>]] [[w:c:halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>The Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>of Morheka</sup></font></i></u>]] 06:59, 22 April 2014 (EDT)


As it has been a while now since I raised the point and there have been no objections, I decided to remove the part about colour blindness and "infrabrown". - Voka.
For now we should leave it as it is. What we can do is bombard 343i on Twitter about the subject. I can get a couple of Archivers to assist.{{Unsigned|‎The Master Builder}}


== Mandibles ==
== Mandibles ==


Recently on Waypoint Catalog confirmed that the differences in mandible shape/teeth/structure are a result of different phenotypes.
Recently on Waypoint Catalog confirmed that the differences in mandible shape/teeth/structure are a result of different phenotypes.
==Sanghieli Mythos==
Should there be a page devoted to ancient Sangheili mythology? From Kel 'Darsam to the Guardian at Sunaion, to what we know of the worship of their pantheon of gods, (Urs, etc), to the nine serpents of Dur'at'dur, the many-mouther watcher, sand dwellers, etc.. Not to even mention the Sangheili interpretations of the Foreruner artifacts. Is such a page warranted to have now in order to build off of int he future? -{{unsigned|Japeth555}}
Why would there be? [[User:Alertfiend|Alertfiend]] - Warning, my comments may appear passive aggressive. <small>([[User talk:AlertFiend|Converse]]) </small> 17:04, 15 May 2016 (EDT)
== Reference 91 ==
This reference does not refer to a specific version, and in the version that I have checked [Google play version] there is no source that supports this claim. Is the source present in the paperback copy, or is it an extrapolation/conjecture without much proof to back it up?
== Adding in Kaidons ==
The section on the cultural and political leaders could use the addition of something on Kaidons, as they are quite significant in Sangheili culture. It doesn't have to be particularly lengthy, as there is already a page on it, but it is still something that warrants inclusion in such a section.{{Unsigned|Navytuna}}
==Phenotypes Image for the Article==
Hello. I do not wish to step on the toes on anybody with higher authority here, but I want to get the green light on something here.
It's pretty agreed upon by the fansbase that despite graphical differences, the elites in Halo 1, 2,3, and ODST are all of the same phenotype. Beyond that, we also know the Reach elites and 4/5 elites are a different phenotype. However, there is a distinction in appearance for the Halo Wars elites that also appear in The Package. I would like to add an image for the Halo Wars elite at the top of the article. But, I wanted to get the okay and not be presumptuous. From where I sit, based on facial structure, number of teeth, body shape etc, the Halo Wars elite is a distinct phenotype from the other 3 we have covered already. Please confirm I can add it in and I will. Thanks--[[Special:Contributions/24.187.82.207|24.187.82.207]] 13:15, October 18, 2020 (EDT)
:Sounds reasonable - you're referring to the Halo Wars announcement trailer elites and the Package ones, right? The only main issue in my thoughts is that the stylisation of these (and the trailer status of one) makes them somewhat dubious. Though the HW cutscenes are fully valid. I'll bring it up in the Discord to get some second opinions but my thinking as of now is this seems pretty reasonable.[[User:BaconShelf|BaconShelf]] ([[User talk:BaconShelf|talk]]) 13:18, October 18, 2020 (EDT)
::They also appear as such in the actual Blur cinematics of the game. Most notably, the opening, the scenes with the Prophet of Regret, and the final fight against Red Team. I spent about an hour trying to see if I could justify leaning towards the H1-3 design or the Reach design and I just couldn't pin it in either direction for it to sit right with me. But yes, those are the ones. Unlike, for example, the Halo Origins depiction where it is suspect and likely of Cortana's conjecture in the same vein as Forerunner depictions, this design is actually observed in the game as well as The Package. I appreciate your consideration. Thanks!--[[Special:Contributions/24.187.82.207|24.187.82.207]] 13:23, October 18, 2020 (EDT)
:::Hey so I made the edit. Sorry I wasn't logged in before. Looks good and you can clearly see the distinction. That being said, if you and your peers ultimately disagree, feel free to reverse it. Thanks!--[[User:AdmiralPedro1stFleet|AdmiralPedro1stFleet]] ([[User talk:AdmiralPedro1stFleet|talk]]) 15:02, October 18, 2020 (EDT)
::::Based on discussion with several other users in Discord, we're electing to remove that part of the infobox entirely and just use a picture of an Elite, and not specify which ones are different phenotypes specifically as no source specifically indicates as such outside of catalog. Will be making this edit shortly. [[User:BaconShelf|BaconShelf]] ([[User talk:BaconShelf|talk]]) 15:06, October 18, 2020 (EDT)
The rationale makes sense, so long as the article continues to mention that  multiple phenotypes exist. I agree with this assessment. Better to not include it when 343 hasn't confirmed than to do so under an assumption. I see your point despite my own point as well. Okay. I agree. We can consider the matter resolved then. Thanks!--[[User:AdmiralPedro1stFleet|AdmiralPedro1stFleet]] ([[User talk:AdmiralPedro1stFleet|talk]]) 15:45, October 18, 2020 (EDT)
== Phenotype of Sangheli ==
https://youtu.be/OH4rQM6zlIo

Please note that all contributions to Halopedia are considered to be released under the Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported license (see Halopedia:Copyrights for details). If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, then don't submit it here. You are also promising us that you wrote this yourself, or copied it from a public domain or similar free resource. Do not submit copyrighted work without permission!

Cancel Editing help (opens in new window)

To view or search uploaded images go to the list of images. Uploads and deletions are also logged in the upload log. For help including images on a page see Help:Images. For a sound file, use this code: [[Media:File.ogg]].

Do not copy text from other websites without permission. It will be deleted.

Templates used on this page: