Editing Talk:Sangheili Storm

The article says that the Storm Elites are part of the Jul's Faction, so why The Swords of Sanghelios wear the same armor as the Storm Elites? Shouldn't they wear the original elite armor? --[[User:Firex|Firex]] ([[User talk:Firex|talk]]) 12:56, 1 September 2015 (EDT)

I believe Grimbrother 1 answered this in the forums so I am going to try to emulate him. They use whatever armor they can. [[User:Alertfiend|Alertfiend]] ([[User talk:Alertfiend|talk]]) 19:10, 1 September 2015 (EDT)

:Yes, I remember Grim saying that there isn't one uniform armor that they use, the armor that they are wearing in Halo 5 is just the one most readily available. So the armor used by the Swords of Sanghelios in ''Halo 2 Anniversary'' is still in use somewhere. -- [[User:Topal the Pilot|'''Topal the Pilot''']] [[File:Blueteam.png|20px]] <small>([[User talk:Topal the Pilot|<span style="color:green">'''Talk'''</span>]]|[[Special:Contributions/Topal the Pilot|<span style="color:green">'''Contribs'''</span>]])</small> 19:58, 1 September 2015 (EDT)

== Swords of Sanghelios ==

Isn't it a bit of a stretch to assume that the SoS actually uses the Storm rank on the basis of the similar armor? The armor isn't even identical to that used by Jul's group, and in any case I don't think armor alone should be taken as a confirmation that Thel employs a similar rank structure. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 04:16, 11 September 2015 (EDT)

:Agreed. If we were going by basis or armour type alone as an indicator of rank, we'd have to say most of the Elites in Halo CE, Halo 2 or Halo 3 are the same rank. I would expect that it's a common helmet type that entered service among the Elites in general after the war, and Mdama just happens to have a lot of them he issues to his Storm Elites. We know that a lot of their materiel has been acquired, either bought or stolen, from other sources, so why not the helmets? It's notable that, in-game, we don't see Storm fight alongside Minors. In fact, Storm is the lowest rank an Elite can have in the new Covenant. It's entirely possible that the new Covenant call their Minors "Storm" because it sounds less emasculating. -- [[User:Morhek|<b><font color=indigo>Qura 'Morhek</font></b>]] [[w:c:halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>The Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>of Morheka</sup></font></i></u>]] 05:49, 11 September 2015 (EDT)

IMHO I think most of the Storm Sangheili are from Hesduros due to the planet being isolated which might just mean they have older tech, same tech Thel might just bring out because maybe he has a large cache of them. As I think I read somewhere (to tired to look) that Sangheili rank up out of merit. The SoS might just be using them in a similar fashion but I would assume 343 would have different reasons. I am dazed right now so I am sorry if I do not make sense. [[User:Alertfiend|Alertfiend]] ([[User talk:Alertfiend|talk]]) 06:01, 11 September 2015 (EDT)

I believe that the storms in SoS is because Industries 343 wanted to re-use assets, like how the made the arbiter's model using H4-H5G elite base model even when is clearly a different race of sangheili. Also I'm the only one that feels that the SoS learned from humans? I mean, they don't paint bulls-eyes on their officers by giving them different armors from their low ranking soldiers and using armor colors has a rough form of camouflage. --[[User:Zen-158|Zen-158]] ([[User talk:Zen-158|talk]]) 21:17, 29 February 2016 (EST)

:Obviously the out-of-universe rationale is that there's only so much space on a disc, and different character models would need room, or time to design to fit the new aesthetic. I believe a recent canon fodder explained that Storm were shock troops under the Covenant, and their radical militarism means they disproportionately continue to serve whichever factions they sided with. As for the colour, orange/red is a better colour for camouflage on a desert planet than purple, or even the green the used in Halo 3. But while we only see the Storm harnesses used by the Arbiter's troops, again, that's just a practical real-world concession. In-universe, they still use different harnesses to denote function and rank. -- [[User:Morhek|<b><font color=indigo>Qura 'Morhek</font></b>]] [[w:c:halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>The Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>of Morheka</sup></font></i></u>]] 07:03, 1 March 2016 (EST)

==To add to the confusion==
On the Looking Glassed Canon Fodder thread

Some scrub: ''I have a question about this skin too: its called the command-rank Storm, but the gold is referred to as being "of the former Covenant empire". Seeing as how the Covenant was mostly purple, is it safe to assume that the Storm rank that existed in the Covenant wore gold Storm armor?

[[Jeff Easterling]]: ''Not really, think of the Storm harness like you would a standard combat harness. Most of the shock trooper infantry that wore them would have been in blue (minors), but a commanding officer who chose to don the same harness would likely have been adorned with a gold version (notice the purple glyphs on the gold Storm harness in the KI version). In theory you could have had Storm harnesses in white/red worn by ultras as well. Grim''

So now I'm not sure if the Sangheili Storm are actually a rank or more of a title, similar to the whole "Master" thing. Would explain the term "Storm-class Sangheili" being thrown around.[[User:Sith Venator|<span style="color:green">Sith Venator</span>]] [[File:Mega Blastoise.gif|20px]] ([[User talk:Sith Venator|<span style="color:blue">Dank Memes</span>]]) 02:16, 10 April 2016 (EDT)
:Yeah, it's definitely not a rank, probably just a role within the Covenant. -- [[User:Topal the Pilot|'''Topal the Pilot''']] [[File:Blueteam.png|20px]] <small>([[User talk:Topal the Pilot|<span style="color:green">'''Talk'''</span>]]|[[Special:Contributions/Topal the Pilot|<span style="color:green">'''Contribs'''</span>]])</small> 03:02, 10 April 2016 (EDT)

::So, basically the Storm harness is like the Combat harness, it can be used by any Sangheili as long as the color coding matches his own rank/position. Storm is a role, not a proper rank.

::"Storm Elites were a specialized shock-trooper role most widely encountered within Jul ‘Mdama’s Covenant force." ([https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/community/blog-posts/canon-fodder-fighting-words Source])

::"It’s typically encountered being utilized by multi-role shock troopers, and while it began its life as a more specialized kit, the past decade of strife has seen it used far more ubiquitously." ([http://www.ultra-combo.com/arbiters-colors-accessories/ Source]).

::It becomes clearer now. I agree that we should change the "Sangheili Storm" article accordingly. Now I'd like to turn your attention to the Sangheili Commander's [[Talk:Sangheili Commander|talk page]], where we had a similar discussion (though now I disagree with everything I said there). It appears that "commander" may also be a title rather than a proper rank:

::"Many Sangheili who served as officers under the Covenant’s reign became commanders of their own factions following the Great Schism – most eventually chose to follow rising leaders such as Jul ‘Mdama and Sali ‘Nyon, though some formed pocket empires and independent alliances. [...] allowing you to play as an ambitious warlord or key general in the Sanghelios civil war." ([https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/community/blog-posts/canon-fodder-fighting-words Source])

::Now I have to acknowledge that Commanders can be anything, from Jul 'Mdama's cannon fodder (''Halo 4'', ''Spartan Ops'' and ''Halo 5'' gameplay) to key generals or warlords. This would explain why Gek 'Lhar and Parg Vol were called "Commanders" in the ''Halo 4 Visual Guide''. Now only the "Warrior rank" remains, we'll need more clarification though... But when I see how Kitun 'Arach is always referred to as a general, and never as a Warrior... [[User:Imrane-117|Imrane-117]] ([[User talk:Imrane-117|talk]]) 14:52, 10 April 2016 (EDT)

:::Which raises some other questions: Are Rangers and Special Operations actual ranks? Surely other people have thought besides me that both are tough to fit on a ranking hierarchy. Same goes for Kig-Yar Snipers. At least with Zealots we know they have their own internal ranking system.[[User:Sith Venator|<span style="color:green">Sith Venator</span>]] [[File:Mega Blastoise.gif|20px]] ([[User talk:Sith Venator|<span style="color:blue">Dank Memes</span>]]) 15:45, 10 April 2016 (EDT)

::::It is my understanding that the Rangers and Special Operations are organizations within the Covenant, but at least Ranger is still an attainable rank that denotes membership within the Rangers itself. We have seen a couple times Sangheili referred to as "Ranger [name]" (''Broken Circle'' comes to mind). --[[User:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">'''NightHammer'''</span>]]''<sup>[[User talk:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(talk)</span>]]</sup><sup>[[Special:Contributions/NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(contribs)</span>]]</sup>'' 15:49, 10 April 2016 (EDT)

:::::For the time being I'm gonna' assume [[Fleet Security]] and [[Special Operations]] might have their own internal ranking system similar to Zealots. If I recall correctly [[Jiralhanae Jumper]]s had subranks in ''[[Halo 3: ODST]]''. But this is pretty off topic. Back on topic [http://www.haloarchive.com/forum/topic/9-canon-fodder-discussion/?do=findComment&comment=157567 I asked Grim on the Archive] for some clarity for not only the Storm position, but for Commanders and Warriors as well. I'm just gonna' assume [[Kig-Yar Heavy]] is an actual rank as well.[[User:Sith Venator|<span style="color:green">Sith Venator</span>]] [[File:Mega Blastoise.gif|20px]] ([[User talk:Sith Venator|<span style="color:blue">Dank Memes</span>]]) 15:58, 10 April 2016 (EDT)

::::::To bring it slightly back off topic, we do know that Fleet Security and Special Operations both have some ranking scheme of their own. For example, SpecOps has Officer and Commander within its ranks. --[[User:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">'''NightHammer'''</span>]]''<sup>[[User talk:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(talk)</span>]]</sup><sup>[[Special:Contributions/NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(contribs)</span>]]</sup>'' 16:05, 10 April 2016 (EDT)
@@ Line 9: / Line 9: @@
 Isn't it a bit of a stretch to assume that the SoS actually uses the Storm rank on the basis of the similar armor? The armor isn't even identical to that used by Jul's group, and in any case I don't think armor alone should be taken as a confirmation that Thel employs a similar rank structure. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 04:16, 11 September 2015 (EDT)
-:Agreed. If we were going by basis or armour type alone as an indicator of rank, we'd have to say most of the Elites in Halo CE, Halo 2 or Halo 3 are the same rank. I would expect that it's a common helmet type that entered service among the Elites in general after the war, and Mdama just happens to have a lot of them he issues to his Storm Elites. We know that a lot of their materiel has been acquired, either bought or stolen, from other sources, so why not the helmets? It's notable that, in-game, we don't see Storm fight alongside Minors. In fact, Storm is the lowest rank an Elite can have in the new Covenant. It's entirely possible that the new Covenant call their Minors "Storm" because it sounds less emasculating. -- [[User:Morhek|<b><font color=indigo>Qura 'Morhek</font></b>]] [[halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>The Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>of Morheka</sup></font></i></u>]] 05:49, 11 September 2015 (EDT)
+:Agreed. If we were going by basis or armour type alone as an indicator of rank, we'd have to say most of the Elites in Halo CE, Halo 2 or Halo 3 are the same rank. I would expect that it's a common helmet type that entered service among the Elites in general after the war, and Mdama just happens to have a lot of them he issues to his Storm Elites. We know that a lot of their materiel has been acquired, either bought or stolen, from other sources, so why not the helmets? It's notable that, in-game, we don't see Storm fight alongside Minors. In fact, Storm is the lowest rank an Elite can have in the new Covenant. It's entirely possible that the new Covenant call their Minors "Storm" because it sounds less emasculating. -- [[User:Morhek|<b><font color=indigo>Qura 'Morhek</font></b>]] [[w:c:halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>The Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>of Morheka</sup></font></i></u>]] 05:49, 11 September 2015 (EDT)
 IMHO I think most of the Storm Sangheili are from Hesduros due to the planet being isolated which might just mean they have older tech, same tech Thel might just bring out because maybe he has a large cache of them. As I think I read somewhere (to tired to look) that Sangheili rank up out of merit. The SoS might just be using them in a similar fashion but I would assume 343 would have different reasons. I am dazed right now so I am sorry if I do not make sense. [[User:Alertfiend|Alertfiend]] ([[User talk:Alertfiend|talk]]) 06:01, 11 September 2015 (EDT)
@@ Line 15: / Line 15: @@
 I believe that the storms in SoS is because Industries 343 wanted to re-use assets, like how the made the arbiter's model using H4-H5G elite base model even when is clearly a different race of sangheili. Also I'm the only one that feels that the SoS learned from humans? I mean, they don't paint bulls-eyes on their officers by giving them different armors from their low ranking soldiers and using armor colors has a rough form of camouflage. --[[User:Zen-158|Zen-158]] ([[User talk:Zen-158|talk]]) 21:17, 29 February 2016 (EST)
-:Obviously the out-of-universe rationale is that there's only so much space on a disc, and different character models would need room, or time to design to fit the new aesthetic. I believe a recent canon fodder explained that Storm were shock troops under the Covenant, and their radical militarism means they disproportionately continue to serve whichever factions they sided with. As for the colour, orange/red is a better colour for camouflage on a desert planet than purple, or even the green the used in Halo 3. But while we only see the Storm harnesses used by the Arbiter's troops, again, that's just a practical real-world concession. In-universe, they still use different harnesses to denote function and rank. -- [[User:Morhek|<b><font color=indigo>Qura 'Morhek</font></b>]] [[halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>The Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>of Morheka</sup></font></i></u>]] 07:03, 1 March 2016 (EST)
+:Obviously the out-of-universe rationale is that there's only so much space on a disc, and different character models would need room, or time to design to fit the new aesthetic. I believe a recent canon fodder explained that Storm were shock troops under the Covenant, and their radical militarism means they disproportionately continue to serve whichever factions they sided with. As for the colour, orange/red is a better colour for camouflage on a desert planet than purple, or even the green the used in Halo 3. But while we only see the Storm harnesses used by the Arbiter's troops, again, that's just a practical real-world concession. In-universe, they still use different harnesses to denote function and rank. -- [[User:Morhek|<b><font color=indigo>Qura 'Morhek</font></b>]] [[w:c:halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>The Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>of Morheka</sup></font></i></u>]] 07:03, 1 March 2016 (EST)
 ==To add to the confusion==
@@ Line 46: / Line 46: @@
 ::::::To bring it slightly back off topic, we do know that Fleet Security and Special Operations both have some ranking scheme of their own. For example, SpecOps has Officer and Commander within its ranks. --[[User:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">'''NightHammer'''</span>]]''<sup>[[User talk:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(talk)</span>]]</sup><sup>[[Special:Contributions/NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(contribs)</span>]]</sup>'' 16:05, 10 April 2016 (EDT)
-(Indent)Yeah you're right, I think I herpa derped with the Special Operations.[[User:Sith Venator|<span style="color:green">Sith Venator</span>]] [[File:Mega Blastoise.gif|20px]] ([[User talk:Sith Venator|<span style="color:blue">Dank Memes</span>]]) 16:11, 10 April 2016 (EDT)
-:Pretty sure Rangers have their own ranking system too though (H5G gives us Ranger Commander, while Sesa 'Refumee seemed to have more authority in the Rangers than others). Again, I would really love a Canon Fodder just dedicated to the Covenant's organization (and one for the UEG and UNSC). --[[User:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">'''NightHammer'''</span>]]''<sup>[[User talk:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(talk)</span>]]</sup><sup>[[Special:Contributions/NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(contribs)</span>]]</sup>'' 16:13, 10 April 2016 (EDT)
-Actually upon being reminded that Sangheili Storm had various colors in ''Halo 4''.
-<gallery>
-File:Sangheili warrior intimidation.png|Minor
-File:H4-RedSangheiliStorm.png|Major
-File:H4 - Green Sangheili Storm.png|Heavy?
-File:White Storm Sangheili 786.jpg|Ultra
-File:Command rank storm harness.png|Field Master
-</gallery>
-Looks like [[User:Imrane-117|Imrane]] and [[User:Braidenvl|Braidenvl]] had the [https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/db05ce78845f4120b062c50816008e5d/topics/canon-fodder-4-8-16-looking-glassed/3ddfb765-8fd2-4f0b-9439-0feb80adf88e/posts?page=2#post30 same thoughts].[[User:Sith Venator|<span style="color:green">Sith Venator</span>]] [[File:Mega Blastoise.gif|20px]] ([[User talk:Sith Venator|<span style="color:blue">Dank Memes</span>]]) 16:28, 10 April 2016 (EDT)
-:I mean, it does make a lot of sense. --[[User:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">'''NightHammer'''</span>]]''<sup>[[User talk:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(talk)</span>]]</sup><sup>[[Special:Contributions/NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(contribs)</span>]]</sup>'' 17:11, 10 April 2016 (EDT)
-::Well sadly. The gold armor is only called a Command-rank Storm Harness. So Really it could mean squad leaders(totally wrong term but hey) wear this. We shouldnt say the Command-rank harness is for Field Masters with limited info on the actual full use of the armor. Just saying :) - [[User:CIA391|CIA391]] ([[User talk:CIA391|talk]]) 17:15, 10 April 2016 (EDT)
-:::We can't really presume what any of the colours denote without any official confirmation. So, so far we just know that gold armor denotes a command role among Storm Sangheili? --[[User:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">'''NightHammer'''</span>]]''<sup>[[User talk:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(talk)</span>]]</sup><sup>[[Special:Contributions/NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(contribs)</span>]]</sup>'' 17:19, 10 April 2016 (EDT)
-::::And that blue is for minors. And that the SoS just wears crimson-like armor with sleeves.
-::::Edit #2 All we know about the harness is here [[Storm harness]]- [[User:CIA391|CIA391]] ([[User talk:CIA391|talk]]) 17:22, 10 April 2016 (EDT)
-:::::Looks like CIA also found a green Zealot and posted it on the Archive. Don't forget to upload the hidden colors here too. For the green Zealot, I suppose it's part of the Zealots' internal thing, has to do with chapters or something like that. No big canon issue. [[User:Imrane-117|Imrane-117]] ([[User talk:Imrane-117|talk]]) 17:39, 10 April 2016 (EDT)
-:Reset indent, In regards to the alt P2 colours I am hoping to record them on Waypoint first. So the transition is easier here. You can help if you want link here: https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/db05ce78845f4120b062c50816008e5d/topics/killer-instinct-p2-colours-work-in-progress/4af60d78-1194-419e-bf6d-774e8af2c172/posts - [[User:CIA391|CIA391]] ([[User talk:CIA391|talk]]) 17:57, 10 April 2016 (EDT)
-::::I just used the term Field Master as an example.[[User:Sith Venator|<span style="color:green">Sith Venator</span>]] [[File:Mega Blastoise.gif|20px]] ([[User talk:Sith Venator|<span style="color:blue">Dank Memes</span>]]) 18:20, 10 April 2016 (EDT)
-Looks like we have an answer, they are like Rangers with their own internal ranking system.
-''Storm Watch 2016: Part 746''
-''So, Storm "troopers/operatives/soldiers/units/whatever" are analogous in many ways to Rangers. Far more a role than a rank. Just like you could have a commanding officer within Ranger units, you could also have the same within Storm units. Now, just like there are "Ranger harnesses" there are also "Storm harnesses," designed by Lodam armory specifically to be used primarily by that role of shock trooper.''
-''Within that, you could have a commanding Elite wearing a Storm harness, but decked out in gold instead of the typical blue (more analogous to a "minor" rank). Theoretically, one might speculate that a red Storm harness-wearing Elite in H4 might have been a former major in the Covenant empire. Even more intriguing would be the possibility of a green one belonging to a Sangheili that originally backed the Arbiter's forces against the Brutes during the events surrounding Halo 3, but perhaps had loyalty that only went as far as that common enemy. Would make for an interesting short story perhaps lol ;-) Same could possibly have gone for a the green Zealot armor'd Elite option in KI.''
-''Again, some of these are more just cool potential possibilities to spark imagination and potential cool individual tales throughout the universe. Same for some of the other color variants/abnormalities being mentioned in this conversation. ''
-''Sorry for the bloated answer/non-answer.''
-<3
-''Grim''
-<br>
-[[User:Sith Venator|<span style="color:green">Sith Venator</span>]] [[File:Mega Blastoise.gif|20px]] ([[User talk:Sith Venator|<span style="color:blue">Dank Memes</span>]]) 21:17, 11 April 2016 (EDT)
-:Interesting, especially with the green colour. So it's kind of like what we speculated. --[[User:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">'''NightHammer'''</span>]]''<sup>[[User talk:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(talk)</span>]]</sup><sup>[[Special:Contributions/NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(contribs)</span>]]</sup>'' 21:48, 11 April 2016 (EDT)