Editing Talk:Fleetmaster

Deleted the picture as it was of a Gold coloured Elite with Brown as a secondary. Also having Red coloured Elites with Brown secondary in the background. ---[[User:Xenos Roadkill|Me, Xenos Roadkill]]


:I put the picture back bacause it was fine. If your going to delete a picture then you need to put another back on as a replacement. [[User:EwCDnaudee419|<font color="MidnightBlue">'''''Εw C 'Dnaudee'''''</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:EwCDnaudee419|<font color="Purple">Battle Net </font>]]</sup><sub>[[Special:Editcount/EwCDnaudee419|<font color="Green"> My Editcount </font>]]</sub> 07:27, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

== Time to Fix This Mess: Revised and Thoughtful Input ==

Alright, since this is the least cluttered of the "Master" pages, I'll drop this wall of text here. Everyone seems to be aware of the massive mess that the upper ranks of the Sangheili Ranking Structure suffered since the release of Reach and Anniversary. Here I'm going to attempt to explain my theory. This has been well thought out and gone over with other Sangheili canon fanatics of various Sangheili themed clans. (Yes I am apart of one, don't judge me.) Now let me proceed.

I believe once a sangheili reaches the rank of General, they can be put into one of two positions. They can obtain the '''TITLE''' of Field Master or Ship Master. This is justified by the Generals we see commanding ground troops in Reach (Field Master), as well as Ardo, the Shipmaster of Ardent Prayer. General is too low of a rank to be qualified to reach the '''TITLE''' of Fleet Master, which is why we have never seen one, and never will. This is justified by the Special Operations Ship and Fleet Masters we've seen, who do not dawn the gold armor. As well as the Arbiter. Now I probably should have stated this earlier, but I call Field, Ship, and Fleet Master titles, because it is simply an extra position added to your rank. Rank is the physical changes in armor and color. Title is your role.  Moving on...

Once a General is promoted, they become a Zealot. From there, a Zealot will have another choice (Whomever decides which path is chosen is beyond me, likely a lesser prophet, but that is pure conjecture). They will either become golden armored Zealots, and remain in the procession o nf "Master" titles (Field Master, Ship Master & Fleet Master), or they will become maroon Zealots, apart of a commando detachment unit compromised o nf all Zealots and a Field Marshall subclass to hunt down intel or artifacts of religious value to the Covenant. This is supported by all the golden Zealots we read about in the Halo books, as well as the ones we've seen in Halo CE(A) and Halo 2; ranging from Field Masters, Ship Masters, and Fleet Masters, all described as Zealots and as golden. The maroon Zealots are obviously from Reach, and could as well include Thel 'Vadam's all Zealot lance, making the soon to be Arbiter the Field Marshall of the squadron, considering their color was never said, it can be deduced they were indeed maroon Zealots. Now to get to the big boys...

Supreme Commanders. Once a Zealot Fleet Master is granted permission to lead a large Fleet or a Combined Fleet rather than a Task Force or a small Fleet, they will be granted the title of Supreme Commander. This is common knowledge. And obviously Imperial Admirals command the entire Covenant Navy.

Now please, I would love to hear some input on this, but more importantly, I would like to see change. I am not the best editor when it comes to wikia, and I would be honored to have people help work on this mess. It is so wrong the way it is right now, and it bothers me greatly. Thank you for your time. --[[User talk:Xzan Tamasee|Xzan Tamasee]] 18:00, 20 December 2011 (EST)


Some input other than "Hnnnnnnnnng" would be appreciated. If a moderator is around, may I ask if I can delete said comment?--[[User talk:Xzan Tamasee|Xzan Tamasee]] 22:13, 20 December 2011 (EST)
:It was spam, so I removed it.--'''''[[Help:User Levels|<span style="color:green">Commander</span>]]''''' '''''[[User:Spartacus|<span style="color:green">Spartacus</span>]]''''' (''[[User talk:Spartacus|<span style="color:orange">Tenth Roman</span>]]'' ''[[Special:Contributions/Spartacus|<span style="color:orange">Battalion</span>]]'') 22:21, 20 December 2011 (EST)

Thanks. Now if only more people who know how to properly edit these pages would take more notice... -___- --[[User talk:Xzan Tamasee|Xzan Tamasee]] 14:36, 21 December 2011 (EST)

:Overall, a very solid theory. I definitely agree that it should be made clear that Shipmaster, Field Master and Fleet Master are titles, and are apart from actual ''ranks'' which are indicated by changes in armor color and design.

:One point, though: I would dispute the assumption that ''all'' Sangheili who bear one of the "-Master" titles and wear gold armor are Zealots. Although it is apparent that all of the golden-armored Sangheili ''in the games'' are most likely Zealots, it should also be pointed out that the vast majority of the Field Masters, Shipmasters or Fleet Masters that show up ''in the novels'' haven't been identified as being Zealots (I recall only Thel is explicitly called one). I may be splitting hairs here, but I still think it's important to note that there have been individuals of other ranks (i.e. non-gold armor) in the positions of Shipmaster or Fleet Master. In light of this, though Zealots are arguably the ones who most commonly hold the said positions, they (or at least all of them) are not exclusive to the Zealot-class.

:It is, of course, a matter of defining what exactly does "Zealot class" refer to. According to the ''Essential Visual Guide'', Zealots are a "category of high-ranking Elites", but whether this means that all of the highest-ranking Elites are Zealots is up to interpretation. Though the visual guide entry mostly describes the artifact hunting teams and does little to elaborate on the Zealots' position in the Sangheili rank hierarchy as a whole, the impression given seems to be that they are a some kind of extremist sect within the military rather than simply a grouping of ranks. Of course, we have grouped all of the top-tier ranks under the Zealot title in the past, but is this necessarily the official position?

:Regarding the position of Supreme Commander, I would argue that it is actually a rank (similar to Field Marshal), while Fleet Master is a title held by Supreme Commanders who command fleets. This seems to be apparent from [[Priority Broadcast Log/Eleventh Cycle, Third Unit]], where Thel is continuously referred to as "Fleet Master" despite his rank of Supreme Commander. Of course, it's possible that "Fleet Master" and "Supreme Commander" are interchangeable titles, but given the usage of the other "-Master" titles, it seems more likely that Supreme Commander is Thel's rank while Fleet Master is the position he holds within the Fleet of Particular Justice.

:As for the question of the armor color of Thel and his team, it's interesting to note that Thel does actually wear purple armor and cloak as Supreme Commander in the ''Halo Graphic Novel'', which is rather close to the maroon coloration used by the Zealots in Reach. It could be a coincidence - or a thought-out continuity nod. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 16:40, 21 December 2011 (EST)
@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-==Untitled==
 Deleted the picture as it was of a Gold coloured Elite with Brown as a secondary. Also having Red coloured Elites with Brown secondary in the background. ---[[User:Xenos Roadkill|Me, Xenos Roadkill]]
@@ Line 19: / Line 18: @@
 Some input other than "Hnnnnnnnnng" would be appreciated. If a moderator is around, may I ask if I can delete said comment?--[[User talk:Xzan Tamasee|Xzan Tamasee]] 22:13, 20 December 2011 (EST)
-:It was spam, so I removed it.--'''''<span style="color:green">Commander</span>''''' '''''[[User:Spartacus|<span style="color:green">Spartacus</span>]]''''' (''[[User talk:Spartacus|<span style="color:orange">Tenth Roman</span>]]'' ''[[Special:Contributions/Spartacus|<span style="color:orange">Battalion</span>]]'') 22:21, 20 December 2011 (EST)
+:It was spam, so I removed it.--'''''[[Help:User Levels|<span style="color:green">Commander</span>]]''''' '''''[[User:Spartacus|<span style="color:green">Spartacus</span>]]''''' (''[[User talk:Spartacus|<span style="color:orange">Tenth Roman</span>]]'' ''[[Special:Contributions/Spartacus|<span style="color:orange">Battalion</span>]]'') 22:21, 20 December 2011 (EST)
 Thanks. Now if only more people who know how to properly edit these pages would take more notice... -___- --[[User talk:Xzan Tamasee|Xzan Tamasee]] 14:36, 21 December 2011 (EST)
@@ Line 32: / Line 31: @@
 :As for the question of the armor color of Thel and his team, it's interesting to note that Thel does actually wear purple armor and cloak as Supreme Commander in the ''Halo Graphic Novel'', which is rather close to the maroon coloration used by the Zealots in Reach. It could be a coincidence - or a thought-out continuity nod. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 16:40, 21 December 2011 (EST)
-Fantastic! Regarding your first paragraph, I do agree that not only golden colored Zealots or Generals are capable of becoming Ship or Fleet Masters. I guess I didn't elaborate on it enough. The unnamed Ship/Fleet Master from The Return. He is, what seems to be a Spec Ops Commander. The same with  the example of Thel 'Vadam and Rtas 'Vadum, being Ship/Fleet Masters as Arbiter and Spec Ops Commander.
-Your second paragraph I can come to an agreement to. It may be interchangeable, and the only time we've seen an armor change was in the Graphic Novel for the rank. In Halo 2, and in The Package, the Supreme Commanders have been the standard gold colored Zealots. I am flexible on this position because there is evidence for both sides.
-Your last paragraph is perplexing to me. Thel always wears his cloak, as stated here:
-''Soon after being promoted to Shipmaster, Thel suffered an injury in the training ring due to a mistake. His family hushed up the incident, as well as the resultant visit by a doctor, due to Sangheili culture equating the loss of blood and medical operation by a doctor with a loss of honor. During his convalescence, Thel handmade an old-fashioned doarmir-fur Shipmaster's cloak, wearing it always to remind him that he could make grave mistakes if he let his guard down''
-Regarding the purple we see him wearing, he only wears it when he is Supreme Commander in the Graphic Novel, which is why I am flexible on the position. So, when can we get started updating the actual pages?--[[User talk:Xzan Tamasee|Xzan Tamasee]] 18:43, 21 December 2011 (EST)
-== Fleet Master or Fleetmaster? ==
-''Ghosts of Onyx'' renders the rank as "Fleet Master", while ''The Cole Protocol'' renders it as "Fleetmaster". I think we should use the latter as it is a more recent source and it is constant with the rendering of "Shipmaster". - [[User:NightHammer|NightHammer]] ([[User talk:NightHammer|talk]]) 18:58, 23 June 2014 (EDT)
-:In the original ''The Flood'', "Ship Master" was once upon a time also 2 words. :) That said, I think it's been more recent with single word usage including our fav Half-Jaw from Halo 3 as his end credits title. -[[User:ScaleMaster117|ScaleMaster117]] ([[User talk:ScaleMaster117|talk]]) 19:31, 23 June 2014 (EDT)
-::Ah yes, I forgot to mention that. Yeah, "Ship Master" was also two words in ''Ghosts of Onyx'', but like you said, it is now a single word in all recent media (that I can think of). Similarly, the last time we saw "Fleet Master" written, it was one word. - [[User:NightHammer|NightHammer]] ([[User talk:NightHammer|talk]]) 19:36, 23 June 2014 (EDT)
-:::Now, Field Master as two words was used as recently as the ''Halo 4 Visual Guide'' at least in Parg Vol's entry. I recall at the time during editing of the book bringing up that "Fleet Master" and "Shipmaster" were used differently, yet 343i decided to keep the discrepancy, so there is that as well. -[[User:ScaleMaster117|ScaleMaster117]] ([[User talk:ScaleMaster117|talk]]) 21:04, 23 June 2014 (EDT)
-::::Just a note; I just noticed that the title is rendered as "fleetmaster" again in [https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/universe/characters/tartarus Tartarus' Waypoint article]. - [[User:NightHammer|NightHammer]] ([[User talk:NightHammer|talk]]) 12:04, 23 April 2015 (EDT)