Editing Talk:Sarah Palmer

== Palmer is Palmer? ==

Anybody else here think that Palmer may possibly be [[Palmer (Marine)]]? They're both redheaded female Marines. It could be possible that Palmer survived the events of Halo 2 and 3, then would become a Spartan-IV. Of course she would have somehow needed to survive Regret's ship's slipspace explosion. --[[User talk:ADinoSupremacist|ADinoSupremacist]] 02:35, 22 September 2012 (EDT)
:{{Citation needed}}, otherwise, its speculation.--'''''[[User:Killamint|<span style="color:Black; font-family: Arial;">Killamint</span>]]''''' <small>['''''[[User talk:Killamint|<font color="Red">Comm</font>]]'''''|'''''[[Special:Contributions/Killamint|<font color="Black">Files</font>]]''''']</small> 08:44, 22 September 2012 (EDT)

{| class="wikitable" style="width:380px; float:left; margin:0 0 6px 6px; font-size:smaller; text-align:center;"
!Person
!Palmer<br>''Palace Hotel''
!Palmer<br>''Halo 4''
|-
|Branch
|Marine Corps
|Navy
|-
|Rank
|Corporal (junior non-commissioned officer)
|Commander (senior officer)
|-
|Hair
|Red
|Copper brown w/highlights<br>
(''originally black'')
|-
|Physical characteristics
|Tall and broad-shouldered
|Average height and slender body
|-
|}
<br clear="all">
::While its certainly possible that Corporal Palmer could have changed her hair color and transitioned in the Fleet from the Marines to the Navy, advancing from a Corporal to a Commander within five years is highly illogical. As well, the two ladies' appearances are incredibly dissimilar. {{User:Grizzlei/Sig}}

:::It was just pure speculation on my part. --[[User talk:ADinoSupremacist|ADinoSupremacist]] 14:06, 22 September 2012 (EDT)

== Voice Actress ==

I believe from Palmer's voice in the trailer that she is played by [http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0354937/ Jennifer Hale], who Mass Effect fans will know as the female voice of Commander Shepard.[[User:Fairfieldfencer|<font color="#FF2400">Fair</font><font color="#FFA500">field</font><font color="#FF2400">fencer</font>]] [[User talk:Fairfieldfencer|<font color="FF2400">F</font><font color="#FFA500">F</font><font color="#FF2400">F</font>]] 07:33, 20 October 2012 (EDT)
:I wouldn't be surprised. Jennifer Hale has a low, tough, and commanding voice, which would definitely be suitable for a Spartan. She's one of my favorite VO performers. --[[User talk:Braidenvl|Courage never dies.]] 10:55, 20 October 2012 (EDT)
::Huh. Why is Halo receiving people who are done with their stories? I mean, when Susan learned that she couldn't come back to Narnia, she enlisted into Corbulo Academy. Some of the Serenity crew joined the Helljumpers. Now, Shepard must have gotten bored after the Reaper War and enlisted into The Spartan Branch. Who else will be joinging us? Captain Price? [[User talk:Missing Mandible|Missing Mandible]] 13:18, 31 October 2012 (EDT)
:::Does seem rather unusual, almost. I kinda like it. But it is, in some ways, also kinda ironic too. Never thought Anna Popplewell would be in a ''Halo'' film or TV webseries. --[[User:Xamikaze330|Xamikaze330]] ([[User talk:Xamikaze330|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Xamikaze330|contribs]]) 13:21, 31 October 2012 (EDT)Xamikaze330
::::But then again, I've liked it when a girl isn't afraid to fight for what she believes in. In other words (to quote Adam Baldwin as John Casey in ''Chuck''), "''She looks good with a gun''". Totally off-topic, though. --[[User:Xamikaze330|Xamikaze330]] ([[User talk:Xamikaze330|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Xamikaze330|contribs]]) 13:25, 31 October 2012 (EDT)Xamikaze330
:::::On topic, definitely Jennifer Hale (so definitely Palmer) and they're likely using them because it works well for both parties--Halo gets an additional boost from using actors known from other media, and those voice actors get an additional boost from association to such a big topic.  Off topic, the Captain price comment could help but remind me of this: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=he9Wk34n5Zc] [[User:Spartan 501|Spartan 501]]
::::Jennifer Hale, eh? Well, I associate her more with a certain other [[Wikipedia:Samus Aran|super soldier]] leading to [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/WebAnimation/Haloid a certain other crossover]... [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 21:28, 31 October 2012 (EDT)
:::::It's definitely her. So, she's a Commander again, and the main villain is voiced by Keith Szarabajka... [[User talk:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:29, 3 November 2012 (EDT)
We know that the Covenant ally themselves with the Prometheans at some point. Perhaps you could say the Didact ''assumes direct control'' over them. --[[User talk:Braidenvl|Courage never dies.]] 10:05, 3 November 2012 (EDT)

Here's to Shepard facing off against Harbinger! Here's to Samus facing off against Master Chief! This is really shaping into an Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny =) [[User talk:Missing Mandible|Missing Mandible]] 15:52, 3 November 2012 (EDT)

== Regarded Cheif with contempt? ==

It dident sound much like contempt to me. It sounded more like a joke. Soldiers take friendly cracks at eachother all the time, I dont see any indication it was anything else. --[[Special:Contributions/24.222.228.134|24.222.228.134]] 00:30, 7 November 2012 (EST)

I agree, her smile and facial expression indicated she was simply surprised it was "the" Master Chief back from the dead and made a joke. [[User talk:Manwiththegun|Manwiththegun]] 01:25, 7 November 2012 (EST)

Don't forget about the cutscene where captain dumbass del rio tried to arrest the MC. Her body language there could be perfectly described as contempt. That was one of our big talking points during our midnight release co-op lan party.  It could be that she sees the MC as a direct threat to her command.

:Oh dear god, not this again. Her body language in the altercation between Captain Del Rio and John-117 is simply one of being uneasy. Does she obey the orders of her superior officer, a man that continues to make terrible decisions and does not have the respect and admiration of his crew? Or does she back the simple veteran soldier, who she seems to view as her contemporary, a reputably legendary man and personally knows the situation on the ground. She only supported her Captain with words because her experience as an officer tells her that he'll be canned the second they get back home. Sarah respects John enough to allow him, without question, to lead her Spartans and when necessary, conduct missions he finds vital to a successful mission outcome. {{User:Grizzlei/Sig}}

== Palmer's rank ==

Is it possible that Palmer was actually a Lieutenant Commander during the first tour of Requiem? I'm sure i remember that in the scene where Del Rio orders the arrest of Chief, he motions to Palmer and says Lieutenant, maybe short for Lieutenant Commander, (doubting the fact she was just a lieutenant in charge of a full spartan division, and managed to get promoted up to commander in 6 months). This could also show why there is no apparent XO during the second tour of Requiem as she, after being promoted to Commander, is legible to fulfill that role of XO. Also, in the Limited edition of H4, the Infinity briefing packets and such, which are dated during the time of the second tour, she signs documents as Spartan Sarah Palmer, Infinity Commander. If she was just a commander - not of the Infinity's naval crew - wouldn't it just be signed Spartan Sarah Palmer, Commander? And before this may be mentioned - I do acknowlegde the fact that the Spartans are now an individual Branch, but maybe as they are assigned to Infinity, she could still serve as XO or at least acting XO. Thoughts? 
Edit: Went through the missions again and found the quote - end of Reclaimer Del Rio Looks at Palmer and says "Lieutenant! Arrest that man!"
--[[User talk:Freddi bobbins|Freddi bobbins]] 16:48, 19 November 2012 (EST)

:Yeah, I noticed this too, she is a commander, so either it was an error or Del Rio was looking ''past'' her and talking to an actual lieutenant. [[User:Spartansniper450/IRC Quotes|<span style="color:#000000">''Col.''</span>]] [[User:Spartansniper450|<span style="color:#00416A">Snipes</span>]][[User talk:Spartansniper450|<span style="color:gold">4</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Spartansniper450|<span style="color:silver">50</span>]] 15:45, 20 November 2012 (EST)

::The short form of Lieutenant Commander is Commander, Mass Effect is a good example of this; so Snipes450 is correct. [[User talk:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:00, 20 November 2012 (EST)

You sure? At least twice, I've heard of Lieutenant Commanders being called just Lieutenant. She may have been promoted to tie in with Lasky's promotion to Captain. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 23:09, 20 November 2012 (EST)

For the US Navy, when shortening a rank the higher ranking part is used, Commonwealth Navy ranks are never shortened.[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lieutenant_commander See bottom of this page.] UNSC ranks are based off American ones, right? [[User talk:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:53, 21 November 2012 (EST)

Her service record indicates she is a Spartan Commander on requiem. You can hear it by activating switches on reclaimer and going to the console on the elephant. So the service record states Spartan Commander, not lieutenant or lieutenant commander. [[User:Erickyboo|Erickyboo]] ([[User talk:Erickyboo|talk]]) 21:36, 11 September 2013 (EDT)

Should her rank have been changed to "Commander" on the main page, dropping the "Spartan" part? I noticed that was changed, when I don't think it should be as her rank is Spartan, and only "Commander" for show.[[User:The Ragin Pagan|The Ragin Pagan]] ([[User talk:The Ragin Pagan|talk]]) 16:53, 18 September 2017 (EDT)

:Palmer isn't a Commander as far as a naval rank or whatever is concerned. It just denotes that she's in command of the ''Infinity''-assigned Spartans. That's the extent to which that applies. Her rank, such as it is, would still be Spartan like all the others.

== Helmet ==

Any idea why our favorite Commander never wears a helmet? Seriously, with all the advancements in tech she could just clip it to her waist or something. 1-1 Marines

:[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SarcasmMode She has helmetophobia.] [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 18:05, 13 February 2013 (EST)

::She has it on in our latest episode. I guess you know that by now though. '''This is''' [[User:CraZboy557|<span style="color:orange; font-family: Gill Sans Ultra Bold; font-size: 105%;">'''craZboy557'''</span>]], '''signing off.''' 18:56, 13 February 2013 (EST)

== Palmer's rank as a ODST ==

First, 343 says that Palmer was a '''[[Lieutenant]]''', but in ''[[Halo: Initiation]]'' shows that she was, for [[2552#October|October 2552]], a '''[[Lance Corporal]]'''. Which version is canon? And in this image, Palmer says she IS a Lance Corporal.<br> [http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/gamelife/2013/07/halomain.jpg Lance Corporal Palmer?] --[[User:Dr Mutran|They&#39;re coming. They&#39;re hungry.]] ([[User talk:Dr Mutran|talk]]) 16:22, 21 July 2013 (EDT)

:Yeah I've noticed that too... But that's kind of weird, I don't see a Lance Corporal in 2552 becoming a Commander so quickly... If she was a Lieutenant in the Marine Corps, I guess she could jump to the rank of Commander at some point in the Navy... If the Spartan branch has Navy ranks. [[User:Imrane-117|Imrane-117]] ([[User talk:Imrane-117|talk]]) 16:54, 21 July 2013 (EDT)

::Some positions in the military come with a rank, for example if a person of any given rank was assigned to be in charge of certain base or something, that position could come with the rank of Colonel no matter who gets it, thus a promotion that may be more than usual. I think it's less that she got promoted really fast, and more likely the head of the Spartans must be a Commander, thus she automatically got that rank when she got assigned that job. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 16:47, 22 July 2013 (EDT)

:She's been transitioned out of the Marines into a separate branch made specifically for Spartans, correct? It's not Army, Navy (Marines inclusive) or Air Force. It's an all new branch. So her Spartan rank as 'commander' would not be the equivalent of a Navy Commander, correct? Just a rank-like indication that she's in charge of other Spartans. As far as I can see, no Spartan-IVs hold a rank at all, so 'Commander' Palmer would be their leader on ''Infinity'' at least, being the only one with an identifiable rank. - [[User:ScaleMaster117|ScaleMaster117]] ([[User talk:ScaleMaster117|talk]]) 17:05, 22 July 2013 (EDT)

::I was under the assumption that the Spartan branch used Navy ranks mostly from the fact that SPARTAN-IV [[Peters]] is a Chief Petty Officer.[[User:Sith Venator|<span style="color:green">Sith-venator Wavingstrider</span>]] [[File:Fett helmet.jpg|20px]] ([[User talk:Sith Venator|<span style="color:blue">Commlink</span>]]) 19:33, 22 July 2013 (EDT)

:::That's what I thought too, but are we actually sure he's a Spartan-IV? [[User:Imrane-117|Imrane-117]] ([[User talk:Imrane-117|talk]]) 21:56, 22 July 2013 (EDT)

::::Errr SpartanSniper450 made the page, I always assumed he had a copy of Halo 4 Limited Edition. I thought the UNSC Infinity Briefing Packet had a list of personel on board the UNSC Infinity.[[User:Sith Venator|<span style="color:green">Sith-venator Wavingstrider</span>]] [[File:Fett helmet.jpg|20px]] ([[User talk:Sith Venator|<span style="color:blue">Commlink</span>]]) 19:42, 23 July 2013 (EDT)

:::::I checked the Briefing Packet and I didn't find anything about Peters, as far as I know his only appearance seems to be in the level ''Infinity''. He wasn't mentioned as a Spartan, so maybe it was just an assumption and he's actually just a random NCO. As ScaleMaster117 pointed out, thus far it seems that the Spartan-IVs don't have any ranks. I had missed that. [[User:Imrane-117|Imrane-117]] ([[User talk:Imrane-117|talk]]) 10:01, 24 July 2013 (EDT)

::::::Surely the branch has a ranking structure though....Even with Palmer's status as a Commander I would still assume the Spartan branch uses the same ranks as the Navy, or the rank structure of the [http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Grand_Army_of_the_Republic#Order_of_Battle GAR] <.< [[User:Sith Venator|<span style="color:green">Sith-venator Wavingstrider</span>]] [[File:Fett helmet.jpg|20px]] ([[User talk:Sith Venator|<span style="color:blue">Commlink</span>]]) 02:24, 25 July 2013 (EDT)

For the sake of the wiki, let's not assume until it is known I guess. ;) - [[User:ScaleMaster117|ScaleMaster117]] ([[User talk:ScaleMaster117|talk]]) 06:35, 25 July 2013 (EDT)

:You previously suggested that "Commander" is actually Palmer's title rather than her rank; based on her signature in the ''Infinity'' Briefing Packet this seems quite possible. She addresses herself as '"Sarah Palmer, ''Infinity'' Commander" (suggestive of a title) rather than "Commander Sarah Palmer, UNSC ''Infinity''" (suggestive of a proper rank). If so, that would explain why Del Rio yells, ''"Lieutenant, arrest that man!"'' while referring to Palmer. However, that calls into question whether A) she still holds her ambiguous Marine rank of second (O-1) or first lieutenant (O-2); B) the Spartans use the Navy ranking system and she's an O-3; or C) the Spartans use a unique rank structure. <s>Also of note, the ''Infinity'' Briefing Packet shows that Spartan Rank exists in-universe; canonically, SPARTAN-IVs must reach SR-50 before applying to one of the Specialist branches, so it's more than just a gameplay mechanic. It's used as an indicator of experience rather than corresponding directly to one's actual rank.</s>

:Frankly, I'd rather invoke Occam's Razor, assuming that Palmer is a commander (O-5), that the SPARTAN-IVs use Navy ranks, and that Del Rio was confused or talking to someone else. As for her rank as an ODST, hopefully the hardcover compilation (if not the initial run) will fix the lieutenant/lance corporal discrepancy. Marvel [[:File:Damascus DeepSpaceNine.jpg|completely]] [[:File:DamascusSpaceNine-fixed.jpg|redesigned]] the Damascus Testing facility between the single-issue release and the collected edition, so surely Dark Horse could alter a few lines of dialog.

:To Sith Venator: I thought the very same thing about the GAR. :) --[[User:Braidenvl|<span style="color:gray">'''''Our vengeance is at hand.'''''</span>]] [[File:Gravemind.svg|14px]] ([[User talk:Braidenvl|<span style="color:gray">Talk to me.</span>]]) 11:01, 25 July 2013 (EDT)

::"it's more than just a gameplay mechanic. It's used as an indicator of experience rather than corresponding directly to one's actual rank." ...ding! ding! ding! -[[User:ScaleMaster117|ScaleMaster117]] ([[User talk:ScaleMaster117|talk]]) 12:22, 25 July 2013 (EDT) Can't say more.

:::You're right. That tangent went nowhere. I might as well have said, {{Plain|[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Dissimile"Spartan Rank is closely related to a Spartan's proper rank, except they're actually completely separate."]}} ;) Anyway, I agree with your previous post that we shouldn't assume about her rank one way or the other. Thus I've moved both references to her pre-Spartan rank from the body of the article to [[Sarah Palmer#Note|a note at the end]]. --[[User:Braidenvl|<span style="color:gray">'''''Our vengeance is at hand.'''''</span>]] [[File:Gravemind.svg|14px]] ([[User talk:Braidenvl|<span style="color:gray">Talk to me.</span>]]) 14:26, 25 July 2013 (EDT)

::::So, ''Initiation'' confirms what Mr. Loftus has suggested: the Spartans don't use a traditional ranking system. As Musa says, "Spartans don't have ranks because ''Spartan'' is your rank." It seems that "Commander" is just a title after all. So, ignoring the "Lance Corporal Sarah Palmer" discrepancy - as I'd prefer to do - Del Rio very well may have been addressing Sarah by her obsolete Marine Corps rank. That would be a violation of protocol, but considering that his tantrum was already directed toward one Spartan, he might have just been lashing out at another. --[[User:Braidenvl|<span style="color:gray">'''''Our vengeance is at hand.'''''</span>]] [[File:Gravemind.svg|14px]] ([[User talk:Braidenvl|<span style="color:gray">Talk to me.</span>]]) 17:57, 11 September 2013 (EDT)

:::::An entire branch of the military with only one rank? Seems legit.[[User:Sith Venator|<span style="color:green">Sith-venator Wavingstrider</span>]] [[File:Fett helmet.jpg|20px]] ([[User talk:Sith Venator|<span style="color:blue">Commlink</span>]]) 22:35, 11 September 2013 (EDT)

:::::I agree with Sith, I think Musa was just making a point.[[User:Spartansniper450/IRC Quotes|<span style="color:#000000">''Col.''</span>]] [[User:Spartansniper450|<span style="color:#00416A">Snipes</span>]][[User talk:Spartansniper450|<span style="color:gold">4</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Spartansniper450|<span style="color:silver">50</span>]] 23:16, 11 September 2013 (EDT)

== Quotes ==

As I was looking through trying to find the quotes page for Palmer, I couldn't help but find that there is none, or that it isn't linked to the page. Thought I would bring this to everybody's attention. [[User:Themrhalo007|<span style="color:DarkSlateGrey">Themrhalo007</span>]] 04:34, 21 August 2013 (EDT)

:There is none. Feel free to create one, but do keep it mind that it should be a list of quotes, and not a list of spoken words by the character. — <span style="font-size:14px; font-family:Arial;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span>  08:13, 21 August 2013 (EDT)
::We have a page now: [[Sarah Palmer/Quotes]]. Feel free to expand it. :)--{{User:Spartacus/Sig}} 14:14, 22 August 2013 (EDT)

== Del Rio's orders ==
https://twitter.com/schlerf/status/432284571351404544
Originally talking to Palmer
https://twitter.com/awesumsauce1/status/431822010738827265
Then changed to talking to Navy Lieutenant
Could someone include this information somewhere? [[User:Erickyboo|Erickyboo]] ([[User talk:Erickyboo|talk]]) 16:28, 28 February 2014 (EST)
:Since it's official it should be included, despite the fact it makes little sense. So Del Rio is barking orders at someone who is off-screen while very obviously gesturing at the only individual on the bridge with any semblance of a possibility of actually arresting the Chief (not saying Palmer could do it, just that she's the closest thing that could). While the origin story of that goof is [http://www.halopedia.org/index.php?title=Sarah_Palmer&diff=1060096&oldid=1059623 just as I thought it would be], it would've made plenty more sense if Del Rio simply addressed Palmer with her original rank because of his tantrum. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 10:54, 3 March 2014 (EST)

== "Eggheads" ==

While I don't dispute Palmer's dislike of scientists, the term "egg head" isn't a derogatory one. Within a military culture it's just like Army soldier being called "grunts", Marines being called "jarheads", Air Force being called "flyboys", and the Navy being called "squids". "Egghead" just refers to super-smarts, who are often bald or balding. Whether it was "incessant" or not (really only during Spartan Ops, so it's even outweighed by a lot more Palmer dialogue) seems to be really subjective to me, and I personally think we should steer clear of biased language like that in articles. Would a moderator be opposed to me brushing up her page? [[User:The Ragin Pagan|The Ragin Pagan]] ([[User talk:The Ragin Pagan|talk]]) 05:10, 9 June 2018 (EDT)

:Not quite a moderator but go ahead. We are all eggheads here.— <span style="font-size:14px; font-family:Arial;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span>  06:13, 14 June 2018 (EDT)