Talk:Primordial

I am just wondering but did the name prisoner of charum hakkor come from Cryptum or was it just a speculative type name?#@lof@n1234-Forgive My English 20:33, 12 March 2011 (EST)

Speculative.-- Forerunner 20:43, 12 March 2011 (EST)

It's referred to as the "prisoner of Charum Hakkor" on at least one occasion, so it isn't an entirely speculative name. However, it is simply called "the prisoner" throughout most of the novel. --"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have." -Thomas Jefferson 20:46, 12 March 2011 (EST)

I think it would be more accurate to say "Unknown precursor", "Unknown Precursor prisoner" or something like that. But the name itself would be a huge spoiler to anybody who has not yet read Halo: Cryptum. Vegerot (talk) 21:23, 12 March 2011 (EST)!!

Rename?

What if we renamed it to the Timeless One?#@lof@n1234-Forgive My English 21:26, 12 March 2011 (EST)

Support I think it would be a good change! Vegerot (talk) 21:55, 12 March 2011 (EST)!!!

Support name makes more sense#@lof@n1234-Forgive My English 22:17, 12 March 2011 (EST)

Support - Since it's the only title that explicitly refers to the Precursor himself. "Prisoner of Charum Hakkor" sounds a little generic, imo. / / STRYKER   [ COM | LOG/M | LOG/S | AAU/HUM ] 20:36, 14 March 2011 (EDT)

Merge with Gravemind?

Since the Timeless One was revealed to be the Gravemind in Primordium, should they be merged together? Guest-10:15, 7 January 2012 (EST)

No, since he himself was still a Precursor at one point.--Spartacus ^{Talk • Contribs}

Also, we don't know how the Graveminds' minds work, if each one is a different "being" (best word I can think of), or if every time there's a Gravemind it's the same one coming back. If we learn for sure it's always the same, then we could merge them. Alex T Snow 18:59, 7 January 2012 (EST)

I see what you both are getting at, yet from what it appears to be, this Gravemind is the same one from the games, due to the dialog that he/it says, mainly in Halo 3. In fact, the Proto-Gravemind page seems to support this:

"Only two Graveminds are known to have ever been created; however, they seem to have the same memories, since the Gravemind present during the Human-Covenant War possessed detailed knowledge concerning the Forerunner-Flood War and even described the actions of the previous Gravemind during that time period as if they were his own. In essence, because it shares all the knowledge of the previous Gravemind and considers them both to be the same being, the Gravemind of the games is the Gravemind that fought the Forerunners, simply been reborn from another Proto-Gravemind."

But I do agree with you both that a lot about the Gravemind is still very mysterious. But from what it appears to be, these two Graveminds seem to be the same, if I'm correct. Guest-23:01, 10 January 2012 (EST)

• Support I think we should merge these pages, as now the Flood and Precursors are synonymous. Vegerot goes RAWR! File:Icon-Vegito2.gif Vegerot (talk) 21:24, 14 January 2012 (EST)

• Oppose - We still have another novel coming. Leave it for now.--Spartacus ^{Talk • Contribs}

...a novel that's coming out in another year, what more do you need to know? It already clearly states that Precursors and Flood are used interchangeably. Now it's just a matter of merging the articles and what the new name is gonna be. Vegerot goes RAWR! File:Icon-Vegito2.gif Vegerot (talk) 01:19, 15 January 2012 (EST)!

• Support - I agree with Vegerot. It's already been stated. It's not like Bear is going to change that in the next bookJac0bBau3r1995 01:35, 17 January 2012 (EST)

Give Talk:Precursor a look please.--Spartacus ^{Talk • Contribs}

• Neutral - While I acknowledge that the Flood consciousness is essentially a single collective and thus there are no real individuals, this particular Gravemind has so many names and biographical information exclusive to it in particular that it's almost a character of its own by a more conventional definition. --Jugus (Talk | Contribs) 08:56, 3 February 2012 (EST)

Exactly, which is why we should merge the two pages, so it can be its own character/page. (or so it says in the sacred caves) Vegerot! 10:09, 3 February 2012 (EST)!

Original Prison Site

After finishing Primordium, I noticed a piece of easily missed but potentially important information. On pages 226 and 236, in the conversation between Forthencho and Yprin Yprikushma, there is the fact that the Primordial had not originally been on Charum Hakkor, but rather on an unspecified planetoid before it was transported to that Precursor world.

Though not described in much detail, the planetoid was described as being somewhat small, as well as damaged, as though by immolation, as well as being constructed by ancient intelligences, perhaps ancient Forerunners.

Given what is now known about the Primordial, the Precursors, and the Flood, perhaps this should be mentioned in the article.

On another note, could this planetoid be a location that plays some role in the Reclaimer Trilogy? Given that the planetoid is somewhat small and damaged, it is probably not the Forerunner facility that will be encountered in Halo 4, but could be another location that is visited.

--Exalted Obliteration 00:51, 11 January 2012 (EST)

That sounds very interesting, could it have something to do with this? Alex T Snow 21:08, 11 January 2012 (EST)

Doubt it, what ever was in Solitary broke out, The Primordial was is a stasis pod.

Name

Since we know now that "The Timeless One" is the Gravemind, do you think the nickname of "Timeless" came from the fact that all the Graveminds are really the same one, in the sense that they have all of the same knowledge, etc? Meaning, even if they kill him (which they did) the same one will still come back again, making it "Timeless". Alex T Snow 21:37, 14 January 2012 (EST)

You bring up a point, plus in Halo 3, the Gravemind says that he/it is a 'Timeless chorus.' There discussing this in the "Merge with Gravemind" topic I made above. :) Guest-23:28, 15 January 2012 (EST)

Rename again.

He is never actually referred to as The Timeless One and all throughout Primordium he is called The Primordial. I think we should change the name to reflect this.ArchedThunder 23:04, 9 March 2012 (EST)

Oppose -He was referred to as the Timeless One in the glossary that appeared on Halo Waypoint before the release of Cryptum.--Spartacus ^{Talk • Contribs}

Support - have to agree with ArchedThunder. It's the name most often used to refer to it in Primordium, and is the closest to an "official" description of just what it is. "Timeless One" is at most a makeshift codename or nickname, like Primordial, but the latter has the advantage of being less colloquial and more recent. -- Specops306 ^{Autocrat Qur'a 'Morhek} 06:20, 10 March 2012 (EST)

Support - Given that Primordium is the latest source for this character, we should follow it. —S331 _{(COM • Mission Log • Profile)} 06:33, 10 March 2012 (EST)

Support -As per above.--Spartacus ^{Talk • Contribs}