Editing Talk:Terminal (Halo 3)

==Untitled==
You can find one(terminal) in the remake of the first chamber after Shafted in the level Silent Cartographer from Halo:CE just under the ramp --[[User:MCDBBlits|MCDBBlits]] 16:42, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Another terminal is located at the beginning of the part where you go to enter the control room, before you go off the ledge you cant get back onto, turn right and jump into a small doorway with an arrow symbol (like on the floor in CE). Once you get inside make sure you go left immediately. there is a steep ledge to the right. Cortana will ask "where are you going?" and then "wait, whats that?" upon seeing the terminal. [[User:Spartan 107|Spartan 107]] 04:28, 28 September 2007 (UTC) Questions? sure, im not good at describing this crap.

Here this may help some of you

The 7 Terminals

The Ark:

1. Start the mission and once you enter the first building take a left into another door and now you should be in a curved corridor. On the inside is a Terminal.

2. After activating the bridge to let your comrades accross the gap, do a 180 and you should see it. (it does not open until you activate the bridge)

3. In the third building after defeating the scarab, kill the group of sleeping covenant, then follow the corridor downwards. Once you reach a door in front that is locked, immediately on the left there's an open door. Go through and walk straight off, then do a 180 to find a secret room. It is in there.

The Covenant:

1. When in the first tower standing on the lift, face the access panel and turn left. Jump over and it's right there.

2. Land your hornet on the second tower, walk towards the entrance but when you see the locked door, do a 180. Should be right in front of you.

3. When in the third tower standing on the lift, face the access panel and turn right. Jump over and it's right there.

Halo:

1. After reaching the end of the first cave, hug the right wall and you will see a building. Jump up onto the walkway and hang a left once inside. It's right there.


--[[User:MCDBBlits|MCDBBlits]] 19:41, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Just finished typing up the entire transcript for all seven terminals (found by me in-game, not on a website). Enjoy! 

--[[User:Last Hanyou|Last Hanyou]] 20:44, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

==Curious...==

Near the end of the transcript, it says, No there is more, But you are not worthy... Not yet. Either that means follow up information somewhere or you have to do something in game then re-access terminals, or something, it sounds like "do this and we'll show you this". Maybe it's just something to think about and they won't give us anything else. [[User:E93|E93]] 00:49, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Different text appears if you access the terminal on Legendary.  It's interesting - Mendical Bias claims to be helping Master Chief.  Perhaps that's why he's so "lucky"? -T

Or could it possibly be leading up to the next game? Is it possible that while with the Gravemind Cortana picked up Mendicant Bias? She was scrambled and they never enlightened us on the topic. When Cortana was placed in the Dawn's system by Chief, maybe Bias infiltrated the system and caused the ship to break in half. This would lead Chief to the "Forerunner" planet where Mendicant Bias hopes to prove himself. I don't see Mendicant's traces in any of the events Chief experienced. I tried beating it on legendary after accessing the terminal and everything remained the same.

Has anyone figured out what the noises are as the player is rerouted? It sounds like a voice but played backwards. --{{unsigned}}

If I remeber correctly, in Halo 2, when Cortana goes into the system on High Charity, she mentions that there is an extremely powerful presence there. Maybe thats Mendicant Bias? --CSKnight78

You don't actually have to do anything on legendary to access the 'extra' information, you can just skip straight to that level and put the difficulty on legendary and you will be able to read it.

== Pausing ==

Does the game automatically pause when the player is reading a terminal, like in Marathon 1 and Oni, or does in-game time pass while reading, as in Marathon 2 and Infinity? --[[User:Andrew Nagy|Andrew Nagy]] 20:11, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't hink so, because you can sometimes hear 343 speak and time passes, so don't read them while playing the meta-game.. It doesn't really matter though because they're never near any combat zones.

It dosen't pause when veiwing the terminals, in some cases you can lure enemies into the same room where you activate the Terminal, you are invincable while reading it and can hear them repeatedly sticking you.[[User talk:Haydn|Haydn]] 06:55, September 12, 2010 (UTC)

==343'es "Namesake"==
In the Terminal readouts, Guilty Spark is not labelled as Guilty Spark but rather as 04-343 ( Installation 04, Monitor 343 ). In the readouts, 343 gets quite annoyed at the Terminal AI ( Perhaps it is Bias ) and starts to Name-call it. Perhaps 343 gains the moniker "Guilty Spark" because he causes Bias to become Rampant. Thus he is "Guilty" of causing the Forerunner's downfall because he is the "Spark" of Bias' rampancy. [[User:5748 PrimaryCipher|5748 PrimaryCipher]] 05:23, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

The above I believe is NOT true, I am pretty sure Guilty Spark is just the model of him...And, the installation 4, probably mean he was on the fourth Halo.(It's in the first Halo game)

:Spark didn't seem to know who he was talking to, though. You'd think he would have remembered MB if he'd met him before. He specifically said his makers restricted his knowledge of other installations, so it's possible he knew nothing about MB before the terminals. --<b>[[User:Dragonclaws|<font color="#000000">Dragon<font color="#FF0000">c</font>laws</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Dragonclaws|<font color="#000000">talk</font>]])</sup></b> 05:45, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't think the word Guilty has any particular meaning in his name - it must be a naming convention for monitors, considering that the other monitor we meet in Halo 2 is called 2403 Penitent Tangent - penitence being a similar concept to guilt. I wouldn't be surprised if one of the others was called something like "49 Contrite Flange"...

==Differences with Difficulty==
The message you get on at least some of the Terminals vary by difficulty level. For example, I remembered Terminal 3 saying something different when I found it, so I went to check. On Normal and Heroic, it contains what you've got here. But on Legendary, the content changes to some talk about anomalies and a conversation between the Flood and Mendicant Bias. Check it out for yourself.
: could you put up a transcript? Not all of us have your 1337 skillz ;) '''Honour Light Your Way - ''' '''[[User:Specops306|<font color=purple>Kora ‘Morhek]]</font>''' ''[[User talk:Specops306|<font color=blue>The Battle-Net</font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Specops306|<font color=purple>My Conquests.</font>]]'' 07:01, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

== Reported content dispute ==

Hello everyone :)

I'm just leaving a message on behalf of an IP who reported this page has some inaccuracies.

:''I have played through the game on Legendary, reading all the Terminals. Though the contents of this pagge are correct for all the other difficulties, the fact remains that the Transcripts for EACH terminal are different not just for the last Terminal on the last level, but for every terminal in every level.''

:''The Legendary versions of the terminals provide both a new "limited read" Transcript (the one Medicant Bias redirects you FROM after about 30 seconds) but also the transcript of what he redirects you 2'' 

:''The Transcripts of each Terminal need to be updated. When played on Legendary, they are vastly different, and reveal MUCH more information. PLEASE try to obtain the full transcripts. Everything is different, including the initial display that can only be read in a limited amount of time.''

If you can help out in any way, that'd be great! Edits to this page can be counted towards the Halo 3 Launch Contest, so why not register as a user, and/or for the contest, and help us out?!

Cheers,

[[User:Manticore|<font color=black>'''Manticore'''</font>]]  <sup>[[User talk:Manticore|<font color=black>Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Manticore|<font color=black>Contributions</font>]]</sup> 18:10, 2 October 2007 (UTC)



Just wanted to say that was me sending those messages.  I registered as a user soon after and started working on this page to add the extra content.  ~~Spartan729


I've been working with Spartan729 on checking each terminal in each difficulty. We have verified all of them with their respective information. As to your comment that each terminal is different on Legendary, only some parts of some terminals are different - Terminal 3 is the only terminal that is completely different on that difficulty. For most of the terminals, only the (After being Rerouted) part is different. We have posted what we have found to be the full transcripts. We are looking for independent confirmation, but we are fairly certain that these are the correct transcripts.

--Vasja, 2 October 2007

== Length ==

This article is getting way too long. I propose that it be spliced into seperate articles, and a brief summary provided on the page linking to each. Thoughts? -- [[User:Manticore|Manticore]]  [[User_talk:Manticore|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Manticore|Contributions]] 18:12, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Well, we could leave one page just to talk about the Terminals, and others for each terminal and their Transcripts... ~~ Spartan729

Might not be a bad idea to split each terminal up into it's own page (especially given that one of the terminals has multiple variations). It wouldn't be all that difficult to do, and they'd be linked from the main Terminal page. - [[User:Dukester101|Dukester101]] 11:04, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

I think that each should have an individual page assigned to it, with a copy of the location instructions, transcript, and an objective section about specualations. There is no good spot as far as I know for this sort of thing, so it would probably help. I would also like the dialog snippets that Cortana says when finding number 7 be documented. [[User:166.109.124.218|166.109.124.218]] 18:04, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

I updated the 'terminal 7' portion to include cortanas dialogue.

==problem==

i have done all the terminals and it still doesnt give me the achievment do you have to complete the mission aswell or is it just like the skulls [[User:90.241.157.17|90.241.157.17]] 15:48, 3 October 2007 (UTC)


This is just like the skulls. All you have to do is access them. Make sure you have looked at all seven - 3 on The Ark, 3 on Covenant, and 1 on Halo.
[[User:Vasja|Vasja]] 12:34, 3 October 2007

The terminal on Halo must be accessed last. If you've already gotten all the other terminals; just go back and access the one on Halo again. C07


Theres an 8th terminal on Cortona

The terminal on cortana doesn't count to the achievement, but you can't just go into the terminal and then get straight out; you have to wait to be redirected.


Anto -   Ive been having the same problem recently now and i cannot get the achievement. Ive went through.. beat all the levels with the terminals (after accessing of course) and even made sure to go through the entire terminal to its full-ist. Nothin still. I went to "Halo" to try the whole "just reactivate the last one" ordeal... still i got nothin. Please help out :)             08:44 est. Sept. 29th 2008

== Precursor? ==

Look carefully at the transcript between Didact and the Librarian in Terminal 2. There is talk of some sort of Mantle (note the capital letter). Is this an object, a Forerunner pledge/idea, or something the Precursors instructed the Forerunners to do? Also, carefully read this quote from Didact:

              "The Mantle has not failed! I've already razed scores of worlds--sterilized systems, routed and [disintegrated] the parasite! We're learning its tricks and strategies. We can halt this thing! And we can follow in Their footsteps!"

Just who are "They"(also capitalized), and why would the Forerunners want to follow in "Their" footsteps? Did the precursors leave the galaxy, control the entire galaxy, survive for millions of years, or were the Forerunners just as religious as the Covenant to an even higher form of intelligence?

I'm thinking the last option. There's other stuff about transsentience and a 'Great Journey' that leads me to suspect that the Covenant religion is just a badly translated version of a Forerunner religion. --'''[[User:Dragonclaws|Dragon c laws]]([[User_talk:Dragonclaws|talk]])''' 22:06, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Its interesting that Bungie would mention the Precursors - for so long, we've assumed (or at least, I've always assumed) that the Forerunners were the first sentient life in this galaxy. that there are far older beings with even greater technology (if ti can be called than, anymore) is startling. THey certainly seem to have entered the Forerunners "Mythology" - the Mantle of Guardianship, passed down from their predecessors, the Precursors? a garbled version of these terminals could have definitely formed the basis of Covenant religiosu doctrine. '''Honour Light Your Way - ''''''[[User:Specops306|Kora ‘Morhek]]''' ''[[User_talk:Specops306|The Battle-Net]] [[Special:Contributions/Specops306|My Conquests.]]'' 23:54, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

In the “BESTIARUM – TECHNOLOGICAL ACHIECEMENT” the scale goes from lowest to highest, Tier 7 to Tier 0, and just for reference the Forerunners are listed as a “TIER 1: World Builders” but “TIER 0: Transsentient” states “As the [Forerunners] had no examples of civilizations with technological accomplishment greater than themselves – with the exception of the Precursors – this is a theoretical ceiling. They can travel intergalactically and accelerate evolution of intelligent life. These may be creatures of legend." I hope it helps -- [[User:MCDBBlits|MCDBBlits]] 05:46, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

That big question that all major halo fans used to think:Who are the Forerunners and why do they have a connection with humanity?Now ever since the time inbetween the release of Halo 2 and the ending of the Halo 3 Iris to the release of Hslo 3, that question has surprisingly faded from most of our minds.The forerunners from all we know were so advanced that they could deserved to be called gods.A creature or race that's even more ancient, mysterious and powerful than them, this story is getting even more ridiculous than it already is as in complexity.([[User:0nyx_Sp1k3r|0nyx Sp1k3r]] 23:08, 4 October 2007 (UTC))

Another thought. What if the Forerunners considered us speacial because we were decendants/creations of the ''Precursors''? That would certainly explain why they thought our planet speacial. Also, if the Precursors were more advanced than the Forerunners, what on Earth could have caused them to die out? Did they create the Flood? Did they find the Flood in another galaxy, then did the Flood capture one of Their ships, and pilot it to our galaxy to destroy the Forerunners? Or what if the Precursors and Forerunners lived side-by-side, then the Precursors left the galaxy and gave it to the Forerunners, only to have the Flood destroy them in the other galaxy. But then why would They leave the galaxy in the first place, and if humans ''are'' Their decendants, why would the Precursors leave a small population on Earth? Was it a crashed ship? And Episode Four's picture of the Earth in it's present and Pangea forms. Did the Forerunners see the symetry of the planet as the reason for it's anomaly? So many questions. I must delve deeper into the subject matter.

The Precursors never died they evolved. The shifted from our reality to that of another level. No need for technology or fear of the real as they are above it. They are accendants of humans (we are the old form) and that is why the forerunners had such an interest in earth. The "gate" was made here for easy transport between the research facilities and the forerunner home galaxy. In the forerunners attempt to also reach this higher level they tried to use an new species' DNA and unintentially disrupted the flood (they were mixing humans with pure forms. The forerunners are not as kind or pure as we thought). Not realising that the flood was under an intellagent being "the Gravemind". It influenced there systems and spread throughout their the forerunners and growing to impossible numbers. So the forerunners focused more on the creation of the Halos instead of continuing their research. The notes in some of the terminals describe how some of the forerunners were still trying to figure it out as a last resort to escape the flood. The "mantel" is a device that they thought was going to help them achieve the next evolutionary state but they ended up using it to raze hundreds of worlds to score the flood from the galaxy. In the ed it all fell apart and they had to activate the Halo and wiping out most of there civilisation. I say "most" cause they are not completely gone. Onyx is meant to be the "last planet" of the forerunners but if you read enough you will find that there is one more place still to look.  [[User:GEOchief|GEOcheief]] 14:39, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

==Achievement Details==

"1) Have to start from beggining of level (Start on Ark) 2) Have to get all the terminals IN ORDER AND IN ONE GAME! 3) You have to read every terminal until it says fragment ends, or it has gone past the stage with the red screen 4) Has to be done in normal mode at least 5) You may save and quit the game after find the 3 on ark, covenant and the last one on Halo." <- I would like to point out that this is mostly wrong. I got the achievement after getting the third terminal on "The Ark" after looking through terminals 1, 2, 7, 6, 5, 4, in that order. I was given the achievement on easy mode. This was not in one game, but over the course of 2 days. I am deleting this section off of the page. --[[User:Vasja|Vasja]], 3 October 2007
*I agree with this correction.  I played the whole game on Normal, and found all 7, but didn't get the achievement.  What I learned later was that there was a 2nd part after the terminal began accessing it.  I went back and did the 9th mission (7th terminal) on easy, and watch through the whole thing.  Of course nothing happened, but when I went back to the Ark and Covenant missions, I got the achievement upon viewing the 2nd part of the 6th terminal.  All of this was on Easy (I was too lazy to go through it on a harder setting just for the terminals). [[User:Sashamorning|Sashamorning]] 23:38, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

==Saved Films==

You can still access the Terminals from within your saved films! '''Honour Light Your Way - ''' '''[[User:Specops306|<font color=purple>Kora ‘Morhek]]</font>''' ''[[User talk:Specops306|<font color=blue>The Battle-Net</font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Specops306|<font color=purple>My Conquests.</font>]]'' 23:57, 3 October 2007 (UTC)


==Bungie.net Compilation==

http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=13233687&postRepeater1-p=1

Hate to see that you guys went to all that trouble to do all that but a guy already did ALL of this including MB's error messages almost 2 weeks ago. It's already got a lengthy discussion and everything. Just thought credit should be given where credit is due.


== Co-op vs. Solo ==

Someone should add that all seven has to be done in either solo or co-op mode. For example: you cannot do 4 of them in in co-op and then the rest in solo. I've just confirmed this as I found 4,5,6 and 7 in co-op then the missing 3 in solo. Did not get the achievement. Then did the 4 I did in co-op in solo and finally got it. And no, I did not miss any and I watched them all the way through. I know some people are having trouble getting this achievement so I hope this will help!

== Beginning or Rally Point? ==

Do you have to start from the beginning to get the terminals, like the skulls, or can you get to them from rally points and the achivement counts? [[User:Kap2310|Kap2310]] 19:48, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

From the beginning --[[User:MCDBBlits|MCDBBlits]] 05:40, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

ive started from rally points to get terminals and they counted


== Easter Egg? ==

is it really an easter egg? its one of the achievements meaning its not a big secret they exist, they should be classified as hidden items or something, easter eggs are normally something they dont tell you about

The 8th one definitely is, does any body know what it says? i was to excited to listen.

== Conversation Between MB.05-032 and LF.Xx.3273 ==

Perhaps it should be noted that LF.Xx.3273 might be referring to the [[LF.Xx.3273 Flood Super Cell]]

C07
 my friend was playing co-op with his mate and they found another silver skull in the game. they new it werent one of the other skulls because they have already got them.
-Easter eggs are not really eggs. they are used to enhance the graphics of the game. if you can. look in "Sandtrap", those towers that are around the map have easter eggs on each one. its hard to get out of the map but if you can. look closely, they should be near the top of those odd towers- "Sgt Teddybear59"

== The Writer ==

The THING controling the Terminals is the AI that the Forrunners made to stop the flood without the Halo array. I cant remember the first part, but its Something Bias (the one that goes rampent in the seventh terminal). Also someone should note the red text in each terminal this is where I saw who was controling them (in the seventh terminal it says "I will tell you who I am. I am ------ Bias" the lines being the name I cant remember.

Also note that they say the words "Flame of Alexandria" or something along those lines in one of the main articles (before the redirect), which relates to Marathon, Alexandria is the name on the pod that the cyborg comes to Marathon in.
-LtOBrien

:[[Mendicant Bias]]. --<b>[[User:Dragonclaws|<font color="#000000">Dragon<font color="#FF0000">c</font>laws</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Dragonclaws|<font color="#000000">talk</font>]])</sup></b> 23:58, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

== Translation ==

So... Does anyone else recognize the writing from Iris?  Has anyone tried figuring out how to translate it and find out what the messages in the ARG were?

== Forerunner population ==

In the beginning of the first terminal, it says that 1.36 million Forerunners (1.3mn civilians + ~40,000 military personnel) were evacuated from [DM-3-1123 b] (a planet, from what I can tell). Then it says that this number is .0006% of the total population. This would mean that the planet had an absolutely huge number of Forerunners on it - over 200 billion. As in more than 30 times as many occupants as our overpopulated planet. 
This includes military, which presumably were only temporarily stationed on the planet, but even still. I don't know how this many Forerunner could live comfortably (and we know they did - look how many "recreational spacecraft" the Flood could find lying around) on one world. Maybe a gas planet - but it can't be, or how could it be cleansed so quickly by orbital bombardment? The other possibility is that is [DM-3-1123 b] is a Halo Installation, but this doesn't seem to explain things either. The surface area of Earth is 510mn square km, and I calculate the surface area of a 10,000km-diameter Halo at less than 10mn square km. 

Possible explanations:
The Forerunner have carved out the entire interior of the planet, like I hear has happened in the books, and live on more than just the surface. But then how did they hit the Flood in the depths of the planet with orbital bombardement? Do the Forerunner ships have a sort of mini-Halo-effect weapon? Wouldn't there be a risk of friendly fire? That effect is pretty, to make an understatement, powerful.

The Forerunner are losing the war with the Flood really badly and the planet is smothered in refugees. 

Very intresting point, and a good palce to put it. Its entirely likely Forerunner planets are similar Couroscant from Star Wars, or its a artificial world, as Forerunners are described as 'world builders'. Who knows? --[[User:Ajax 013|Ajax 013]] 11:34, 2 November 2007 (UTC)


Sorry about writing such an essay. Is this a bad place to discuss it?[[User:Mr Toad|Mr Toad]] 04:39, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

People who claim Earth is overpopulated base that assumption on arable land and other resources, not living space. Remember that the entire population of Earth could easily fit into Delaware.  Even given our current level of agricultural technology, places like the USA could maintain far higher populations.  The Forerunner were incredibly technologically advanced, and it seems likely that they would have been liberated from the necessity of farming for their food by matter recombination technology (like Pohl's ''Gateway'' series) or by direct energy to matter transformation (like Star Trek), or some other means.  Further, there is no reason to assume the planet in question is similar in surface area to the Earth.  The planet could be much larger, and if it was less dense could have similar gravitation.  It could also be the same size but have much more livable surface (fewer oceans, or inhabited oceans).

Those are some very good points. The only flaw i can think of is that you forgot to sign. [[User:Mr Toad|Mr Toad]] 19:47, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

== Eighth Terminal Location ==

Can someone please tell me were is it exactly located (the level is 'Cortana', isn't it?)?

Same room as the skull (3nd or 4th chamber) just on the bottom/basement level --[[User:MCDBBlits|MCDBBlits]] 01:05, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
how do u access the terminals

Can someone post the transcript of the Cortana term. ? [[User:82.22.181.114|82.22.181.114]] 11:51, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

== possible typographical errors ==

i have bolded and italicised what i am concerned may be errors. i have no way to check them myself or i would. all i can do is call attention to them. 

''terminal three''

REPORT: SECURITY BREACH 2/3 Although [adjacent] systems reacted to the disturbance withing expected parameters, a more comprehensive investigation was undertaken. A physical '''''search w revealed''''' that there was no [corporeal] tampering at the [alpha site]. 

REPORT: SECURITY BREACH 3/3 In the [42 minutes, 9 seconds] since the original anomaly was discovered two more anomalies were detected in the unrelated systems. 

The portal management/life support central system within the boundary complex was momentarily disabled before the cause was ['''''settles'''''] and disassembled. A diagnostic sweep of the central archives was initiated and subsequently halted. The origin on the request cannot be traced. 

''terminal four''

LF.Xx.3273.> Perhaps they have found {~} of making that decision for themselves? Perhaps they chose to leave it {~} impartial outsider; cast '''''your''''' as '''''and''''' arbiter during this time of great need?

''terminal five''

If we start immediately--commence total biosphere elimination of life sustaining worlds (as indicated in the accompanying charts) and relocate evacuated populations to facilities such as those described in the [Onyx project]--all this could be achieved in ['''''57,1590''''' (+/-2,184) hours].
[[User:Kori126|Kori126]] 02:21, 18 February 2008 (UTC)


== Reverse Messages ==

I noticed this a few days ago while reading them over again...

I found this video on youtube, which has them reversed so you can understand them - 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5Pphb_RWHg

I think (well, for me, as a huge story buff), that this opens a whole new level to the terminals and am currently composing a transcript of (what I think) they say.

:I've heard those messages. I've alwasy wondered what they said. Nice find. -- <b>[[User:Sgt.johnson|<font color="Black">Sgt.</font>]][[User talk:Sgt.johnson|<font color="Black">johnson</font>]]</b> 20:24, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

I have accessed all the terminals like 10 times but I can't seem to get the achievement.--[[User talk:Edamee|Edamee]] 20:58, 8 March 2009 (UTC)Edamee

== terminal problem in theater mode ==

I have a problem, when i'v accesed a terminal during the game and watch the movie later on it automaticlly enters the terminal and then i can't get out.
The game no longer responds to any of my controls, i can only push the start button and press "end film".
And because of this strange error i can't see the rest of the movie wich i find very anoying.
Can anyone tell me how to fix this problem?
--[[User talk:WarGamer995|WarGamer995]] 10:30, 1 June 2009 (UTC)


==Something Odd==

In Halo's control room there's some type of terminal esque spinning object during the Guilty Spark Cutscene in the background. It looks like some type of control for the installation. Doe's anyone else have any ideas about anything relating to this?[[User talk:Doylej0131|Doylej0131]] 18:09, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

== Formatting ==

Stuff like this:

"The word ghost seen above could mean something. It could be something that connects with the Ghosts of Halo. "

isn't formatted any differently from the actual transcripts, making it hard to tell what is what. Thus, the actual text should be transcribed either in italics, or with the "blockquote" tag's. Or, the various note's throughout the article could be in italics. Either way, something needs to be done.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 06:54, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

:[http://halo.wikia.com/index.php?title=Halopedia:Sandbox&oldid=855925 Here's my solution]. In that Sandbox revision, I've two possible formats for a Terminal page: a lot of HTML with a lot of CSS (could be made easier with a template), or a little HTML with a little CSS. ''(Note to self: try lightening Page 1's background to #555.)''
:More specifically, I can use HTML and CSS to generate a close visual approximation of a Terminal page while sticking to text; or I can use basic HTML and CSS to replicate textual details (alignment of characters, spacing, etc.) without replicating color.
:Unfortunately, this format would be quite incompatible with ''inline'' notes, but notes could be appended to each transcript. [[Wikipedia:WP:REFGROUP|Reference groups]] would be excellent for that purpose, though it may be tricky to put the references themselves inside the transcripts without disturbing the text formatting... Tricky issue.
:Furthermore, error messages need not be reproduced in the text -- I can probably write an alternative code with just a message describing what happens.
:<span style="background:#AADDAA;display:inline-block;height:16px;padding-right:4px;line-height:1em;position:relative;top:-3px;-moz-border-radius:0 50% 50%"><b> [[User:DavidJCobb|<span style="color:#000;position:relative;top:.15em">DavidJCobb&nbsp;</span>]]</b></span> 11:26, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

::''*votes for '''a lot of HTML with a lot of CSS (could be made easier with a template)'''*''. I think this style/format looks nicer.- <b>[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></b> 12:08, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

:::Should I make the template(s) now, or wait for other votes?
:::Right now, I have template code ready such that the syntax of a Terminal page would be this:
<pre>
{{Terminal}}
Observed extensive ground action on 
<span style="color:#FA0">[LP 656-38 e]</span>. 9,045 survivors 
barricaded within central government 
building. Structure's defenses 
inadequate to withstand extended 
siege by enemy ground forces 
(≈1,572,034,315+). Estimate 
position overrun in <span style="color:#FA0">[173 hours]</span>.
{{Terminal|p}}
846 smaller groups on less 
defensible structures; global 
distribution corresponding to 
<span style="color:#FA0">[probability mode zeta]</span>. 
Estimated local position overrun 
in <span style="color:#FA0">[9 hours]</span> (average).
{{Terminal|end}}
</pre>
:::One template would used; it would accept a parameter that controls what "chunk" of HTML it outputs. <code><nowiki>{{Terminal}}</nowiki></code> would output the starting code (to form the page); <code><nowiki>{{Terminal|p}}</nowiki></code> would be used anywhere there's two consecutive line breaks (it is needed to override some CSS that Wikia puts on paragraphs); and <code><nowiki>{{Terminal|end}}</nowiki></code> closes the page.
:::Orange text would be colored manually using SPAN tags, preferably using the color #FA0 (#FFAA00).
:::<span style="background:#AADDAA;display:inline-block;height:16px;padding-right:4px;line-height:1em;position:relative;top:-3px;-moz-border-radius:0 50% 50%"><b> [[User:DavidJCobb|<span style="color:#000;position:relative;top:.15em">DavidJCobb&nbsp;</span>]]</b></span> 13:37, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

::::Ok. Now, let's test the template on the Terminal 01. If the article can support it, then we'll apply it to all terminal messages.- <b>[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></b> 14:13, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

:::::Got a working preview on [[Template:Terminal|the template's page]]. Only issue with the template is that it can be a little quirky with certain whitespace, but the issue is easily avoided. <span style="background:#AADDAA;display:inline-block;height:16px;padding-right:4px;line-height:1em;position:relative;top:-3px;-moz-border-radius:0 50% 50%"><b> [[User:DavidJCobb|<span style="color:#000;position:relative;top:.15em">DavidJCobb&nbsp;</span>]]</b></span> 14:56, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

::::::Tested. It seems you have to input <code><nowiki>{{CLEAR}}</nowiki></code> to separate the template.- <b>[[User:Subtank|<font color="gold"><font color="#FF4F00">5</font>əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7</font>aŋk</font>]]<sup>([[User talk:Subtank|<font color="#FF4F00">7alk</font>]])</sup></b> 14:59, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

:::::::My original idea was to have the templates "stack" horizontally (but feel free to add them to the article however you want, or if you want, I can get started on that), so I floated them. <span style="background:#AADDAA;display:inline-block;height:16px;padding-right:4px;line-height:1em;position:relative;top:-3px;-moz-border-radius:0 50% 50%"><b> [[User:DavidJCobb|<span style="color:#000;position:relative;top:.15em">DavidJCobb&nbsp;</span>]]</b></span> 15:01, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

::::::::Oops... Forgot to mention, you need to add line breaks to the text -- the template doesn't wrap on its own. <span style="background:#AADDAA;display:inline-block;height:16px;padding-right:4px;line-height:1em;position:relative;top:-3px;-moz-border-radius:0 50% 50%"><b> [[User:DavidJCobb|<span style="color:#000;position:relative;top:.15em">DavidJCobb&nbsp;</span>]]</b></span> 15:11, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

== How? ==
The terminal in the last level is on the in-complete halo, so it was just made, so how could there be a Terminal on it with recorded information? I suppose Mendicant Bias could have put the information there, but that's assuming that Halos are made with Terminals automatically.
:It is possible that the Terminal was filled with data immediately after its construction, or that an already-constructed Terminal was placed on Installation 04 II. <span style="background:#AADDAA;display:inline-block;height:16px;padding-right:4px;line-height:1em;position:relative;top:-3px;-moz-border-radius:0 50% 50%"><b> [[User:DavidJCobb|<span style="color:#000;position:relative;top:.15em">DavidJCobb&nbsp;</span>]]</b></span> 03:05, December 1, 2009 (UTC)

== Trivia Error ==

There was a trivia fact (before I removed it) that said this:
*In the seventh Terminal, the Forerunners use the phrase "Great Journey". The Covenant use this term to refer to their quest to activate the Halo Array and become gods; they may have borrowed the term from the Terminal.

This has to be canonically incorrect as Terminal 7 was on Installation 04 (II), which didn't exist until the events of Halo 3. Now, the conversation/contents of the terminal may have been available to the Covenant elsewhere, or the term could have been used by other Forerunners and documented for the Covenant to find later, but the Covenant's usage of the term "Great Journey" could not have been from the seventh Terminal, since the Prophets spoke of the Great Journey long before the events of Halo: Combat Evolved.

[[User talk:SquirrellyOtter|SquirrellyOtter]] 00:41, February 26, 2010 (UTC)

:The term came from some other source, while Terminal 7's information was downloaded from the Ark.-- '''[[User:Forerunner|<font color="blue">Fore</font>]]''[[User talk:Forerunner|<font color="green">run</font>]]''[[Special:Contributions/Forerunner|<font color="red">ner</font>]]''' 01:16, February 26, 2010 (UTC)

== How? ==
Sorry if i seem a bit stupid, but how do you read them? [[User talk:Lunar ankou2|Lunar ankou2]] 06:50, March 20, 2010 (UTC)
:IIRC you walk up to the Terminal and press the same button you use to use weapons/vehicles. You then page through it with '''A''', until the Terminal (appears to) start to glitch -- it turns red and error messages scroll down one side. From there, movement, then more data shown. Then you're done. <span style="background:#ADA;display:inline-block;height:16px;padding-right:4px;line-height:1em;position:relative;top:-3px;-moz-border-radius:0 50% 50%"><b>&nbsp;[[User:DavidJCobb|<span style="color:#000;position:relative;top:.15em">DavidJCobb&nbsp;</span>]]</b></span> 00:23, March 22, 2010 (UTC)

==Page conservation==
This page needs to be smaller. It is very bulky, mostly due to the terminal transcripts. I suggest we set them up in a similar way to the [[Data Drop]] page. Agreed? [[User:FatalSnipe117|<span style="color:green">'''pestilence'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/FatalSnipe117|<span style="color:green">'''Phil'''</span>]], ''[[User talk:FatalSnipe117|<span style="color:green">'''pestilence!'''</span>]]'' 17:16, 16 November 2011 (EST)
:Agreed. All that is needed is a consensus. :) — <span style="font-size:16px; font-family:OrbitronMedium;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span> 06:43, 17 November 2011 (EST)
::Definitely agreed. The Data Drop page format is pretty handy in pages like these. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 06:50, 17 November 2011 (EST)
What's the status on this? Is it a go? [[User:FatalSnipe117|<span style="color:green">'''pestilence'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/FatalSnipe117|<span style="color:green">'''Phil'''</span>]], ''[[User talk:FatalSnipe117|<span style="color:green">'''pestilence!'''</span>]]'' 16:56, 9 December 2011 (EST)
:Start a proposal section with a voting subsection (avoid neutral since it's a useless category). — <span style="font-size:16px; font-family:OrbitronMedium;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span> 17:50, 9 December 2011 (EST)

==Proposal (Closed)==
Fellow editors, this page is a mess. It is far too long to navigate easily, and the transcripts are the main culprit: they take up over 3/4 of the page. It's bulky, it's unsightly and it doesn't look all that professional. I propose that we put the terminals into a tabbed format, nearly identical to the [[Data Drop]] page. It would be a bit of work, but it would be very much worth it to transform an important page. [[User:FatalSnipe117|<span style="color:green">'''pestilence'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/FatalSnipe117|<span style="color:green">'''Phil'''</span>]], ''[[User talk:FatalSnipe117|<span style="color:green">'''pestilence!'''</span>]]'' 09:20, 11 December 2011 (EST)

*{{Support}}- per the above [[User:FatalSnipe117|<span style="color:green">'''pestilence'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/FatalSnipe117|<span style="color:green">'''Phil'''</span>]], ''[[User talk:FatalSnipe117|<span style="color:green">'''pestilence!'''</span>]]'' 09:20, 11 December 2011 (EST)
*{{Support}} - as per FS117. [[Talk:Terminal/Halo 3#Length|Déjà vu]]? Should we do the same for Anniversary terminals too? That's [[Talk:Terminal/Halo: Combat Evolved Anniversary|another story]] I guess. —[[User:Spartan331|<span style="color:silver;">S331</span>]] [[File:Bubbleshieldhud.svg|14px]]<sub>([[User talk:Spartan331|COM]] • [[Special:Contributions/Spartan331|Mission Log]] • [[UserProfile:Spartan331|Profile]])</sub> 09:34, 11 December 2011 (EST)
*{{Support}} - As per above. Plus splitting the Anniversary Terminals may work out well too.--'''''<span style="color:green">Commander</span>''''' [[User:Halofan1234|<span style="color:red">Halofan1234</span>]] (''[[User talk:Halofan1234|<span style="color:purple">I say</span>]]'' ''[[Special:Contributions/Halofan1234|<span style="color:purple">the cabal</span>]]'' ''[[Special:Editcount/Halofan1234|<span style"color:purple">does not exist</span>]]'') 11:46, 11 December 2011 (EST)
*{{Support}} - why not? It is very bulky, and I could fix this up in like 5 minuets. oops, sorry. Vegerot goes RAWR!  [[User:Vegerot|<span style="color:midnightblue; font-weight:bold">Vegerot</span>]] ([[User talk:Vegerot|<span style="color:grey">talk</span>]])  14:15, 11 December 2011 (EST)
*{{Support}} Fer both. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 14:27, 11 December 2011 (EST)
*{{Support}} - Agreed. This is far too long an article. Must be shortened. --[[User talk:Xamikaze330|Xamikaze330]] 18:14, 11 December 2011 (EST)Xamikaze330

:Done. For future reference, you don't really need to create Oppose/Support sections as we have visual templates that clearly shows how many votes there is.— <span style="font-size:16px; font-family:OrbitronMedium;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span> 20:28, 17 December 2011 (EST)

== Name Change ==

I think the name should be changed to Terminal (Halo 3) rather than Terminal/Halo 3. [[User:Pokebub|Pokebub]] ([[User talk:Pokebub|talk]]) 00:46, 21 April 2013 (EDT)
:We have it that way so it is a subpage of the main [[Terminal]] article.--{{User:Spartacus/Sig}} 01:00, 21 April 2013 (EDT)

== Terminal Transcript Text Size ==
Can we consider editing the transcripts for all terminals to a larger text size so that they are easier to read? The text size used for the Data Drop transcripts would seem reasonable. Though I'm not sure how much effort that would entail or how the larger text size would affect the page layout. [[User:S.g.ali|S.g.ali]] ([[User talk:S.g.ali|talk]]) 00:28, 2 October 2013 (EDT)

:Adjusted to 13px. Prior to this, it looks fine on Linux and Windows. Is it different in Mac? — <span style="font-size:14px; font-family:Arial;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span>  10:49, 3 October 2013 (EDT)

::It's not any issue with the OS or internet browser. The transcript text was just small and couldn't be read without zooming in. I wouldn't want to read all the transcripts without squinting my eyes much. [[User:S.g.ali|S.g.ali]] ([[User talk:S.g.ali|talk]]) 10:42, 6 October 2013 (EDT)

:::I ran some tests and it appears monospace is rendered/sized differently on Mac. Who knew... — <span style="font-size:14px; font-family:Arial;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span>  21:52, 7 October 2013 (EDT)

== Terminal Five ==

Terminal Five is broken, for some reason. I took a look at the source and nothing seemed amiss(I touched nothing, I swear).--[[User:D9328|D9328]] ([[User talk:D9328|talk]]) 16:18, 16 February 2019 (EST)d9328
:[https://www.halopedia.org/index.php?title=Terminal/Halo_3&diff=next&oldid=1269124 My fault], missed that small detail when I added the tabcontainer template the other day. >_< --{{User:Spartacus/Sig}} 16:31, 16 February 2019 (EST)

== On the new tweets from Paul Russel ==

Recently, [[User:TheArb1ter117|TheArb1ter117]] has [https://www.halopedia.org/index.php?title=Terminal_(Halo_3)&oldid=1565746 revamped] the "Production Notes" section with new information [[Paul Russel]] shared on Twitter. However, I believe that the changes made are selective around Paul's tweets, reflecting the bias of the member (preferring humans and forerunners to be separate species) and is not representative what Paul Russel ultimately said.

Obviously, this issue has been hotly debated for many years now, and everyone here will have bias themselves; myself included. So, for fairness I admit I am of the side of humans and forerunners being the same species, but all I am trying to do is maintain neutrality and accuracy in the article. And instead of just editing the article myself likely causing an edit war, I'm choosing to try and settle this here. '''I maintain I hold no ill will towards this user and if my words seem slighted It is not my intention.''' But I also believe given what I understand from the history and opinions of this wikis members my words may be significantly unpopular, so I am trying to be explicitly clear and comprehensive. 

===3 Key Issues===
My Issue is with the middle point of the section which is broken into 3 parts. '''I also claim that the first and last parts of the "Production Notes" section is accurate as of this time and does not need to be changed.'''

===="Bungie" did not entirely change the forerunners====

The article tries to address the issue by claiming "''according to Paul Russel, the studio had made the decision (to split humans and forerunners) sometime during the development of Halo 3'''" and sources this tweet from Russel: [https://twitter.com/docabominable/status/1602455841793347585 "''The Forerunners changed for the Halo 3 terminals. I know everyone responsible for that. It was a change that was vetted and approved by Bungie''"].
The problem with this is it treats Bungie as a monolith that wholesale changed the forerunners in Halo 3. '''This is not the full truth.'''
Paul Russel later clarified [https://twitter.com/docabominable/status/1603050616028368897 "''The game and terminal writers were separate teams with overlap; they didn’t think the discrepancy would matter; management vetting never read or cared about continuity; morning bagels were more important than canon.''"] Acknowledging that [https://twitter.com/docabominable/status/1602720596328169475 "''H3 shipped with both versions and both were approved''".]
* According to Russel, Halo 3 shipped with the "Game" team and the "Terminals" team having '''contradicting ideas on the forerunners, and both were approved''' as management was more focused on shipping the game. 

====Terminal forerunners were also early humans==== 

Paul also later then clarifies that according his friend who was on the terminal writing team [https://twitter.com/docabominable/status/1603053863866880000 "''the (terminal) forerunners were a “…subset of early humans uplifted by another group (the precursors?)”.''".] Indicating that in even in the Halo 3 terminals, Forerunners weren't yet entirely separate as depicted in later works by 343i (Forerunner Saga, Halo 4 etc.). The article does bring this up, but notes it as "''disagreement even within the terminal writing team''".
* But as Paul is clearly saying this is what he was told by '''''a member of the terminal writing team''''' this isn't a "disagreement". '''This is what the terminals actually say.''' Unless another member of the terminal writing team says something different, this is truth as from Paul.
Of course we later see that the forerunners ''were'' changed to be an entirely separate species in The Forerunner Saga, but that is clearly a change from the terminals. The article already has an section dedicated to differences from the terminals to those books, this is just another one.

====Joe Staten and Contact Harvest====

The article notes that [[Joseph Staten]] and was placed on administrative leave during a period of Halo 3's development, and meanwhile wrote the book [[Contact Harvest]] which included information that humans are forerunners. The article then claims "''Staten was therefore not privy to what was going on with the decisions made for the terminals, explaining his novel's contradiction with Bungie's new stance that humans and Forerunners were separate species.''". But as explained above; "Bungie" did not have a "new stance" wholesale, and Terminal forerunners were also early humans.
* The article tries to explain this by that first part of the quote being directly from [https://twitter.com/docabominable/status/1602510864774582272 Paul's tweet], '''but tacks on the second part to fit the incorrect context the author is giving it. Paul only mentioned the terminals here, not all of Bungie.''' Also the reason stated for Joe's leave is incorrect, with "''he was placed on temporary administrative leave to reduce tension within the writing team''" and "''Staten was brought back into the studio just before launch for final polish, after the writing team's differences had been settled.''" '''But that isn't what Paul said. [https://twitter.com/docabominable/status/1602511567307816960 tension] and [https://twitter.com/docabominable/status/1602513112850378752 settled differences] wasn't from "writing team", it was with [[Marcus Lehto]].'''

=====Joe was likely on the "humans are forerunners" side=====
As this point is not 100% confirmed, I am not stating it as fact. And I do not claim it must be included. However, I believe it's clear that this is almost certainly true. And if the article is going to include this topic, (which I believe it currently does, from implications where Joe "settled differences" with the "writing team") In the effort to be neutral, it should at least be put up alongside any claims otherwise.

Joe is known for being the "Director of Cinematics" on [[Halo: Combat Evolved credits|Halo 1]] and [[Halo 2 credits|Halo 2]], and (essentially lead) writer of Halo 2 (And also essentially Halo 1). On his LinkedIn he states he was [https://www.linkedin.com/in/joseph-staten-8196015/details/experience/ "''Creative lead responsible for developing the story foundations of the Halo universe''"]. There are countless examples of Joe being integral to Halo's original lore and story. You can also analyze that he often uses religious parallels (The [[Ark]] was used against the [[Flood]] etc.) and [[religion]] has a huge role in Halo's main story. If he didn't come up with the idea that humans are forerunners on his own he certainly subscribed to it. The article notes that in the [[Earth Ark#Escaping the Ark|original ending for Halo 2]] this was going to be revealed at the end of the game, and of course it was revealed in his book Contact Harvest.   

* The key here is as noted by Paul, and the game team had different ideas about the forerunners than the terminals team, and Joe Staten worked on Halo 3's story team ''near the'' '''''end''''' ''of development.'' On his LinkedIn Joe states the on Halo 3 he: [https://www.linkedin.com/in/joseph-staten-8196015/ "''''''Provided design and story feedback, as well as wrote and re-wrote dialog and cinematic scripts to help these games hit AAA levels of polish.'''''".]
Joe was likely writing on Halo 3's story with the intention that humans are forerunners, as that would explain certain dialogue from Halo 3's story implying so. Dialogue from the [[Prophet of Truth]] even seems to directly link to the reveal in Contact Harvest, In the book, after [[Mendicant Bias]] reveals that the humans on [[Harvest]] are his makers, The prophets react by saying "''The forerunners... some were left behind.''" In Halo 3, truth tells [[Johnson]]: [https://www.halopedia.org/The_Covenant_(level)#Journey's_End  "''Your forefathers wisely set aside their compassion(...) I see now why they left you behind.''"]

===Proposed changes===

* '''1. Rewrite with the understanding that Bungie was split on the issue, the "Game" side and "Terminal" side offering different ideas from each other, and that both were approved by management. '''
* '''2. Rewrite with the currently understood truth as from Paul, the terminals were written as with the forerunners being a subsect of ancient humans uplifted by most likely precursors, and not separate species. This should likely also be addressed in the section "In''' '''''The Forerunner Saga"''''' '''
* '''3. Rewrite that Contact Harvest was only contradicting the terminals team's idea, not "Bungie" as a whole.'''

* '''3a. If the article is to include Joe Staten's involvement with Halo 3 forerunners, it should be neutral, and not take any one claim over the other. If the article includes a side of the story that Joe was writing with the "Terminals" team's idea, it should also include a side that he was writing on the "Game" team's idea.'''

I know this was long and the topic has been endlessly controversial, But I'm not trying to flame anyone and again, just want accuracy and neutrality.
[[User:TNS22|TNS22]] ([[User talk:TNS22|talk]]) 02:30, December 19, 2022 (EST)


: Weird. I've not kept up on the details here but to me the Terminals have always shown that Forerunners were just ancient humans and not a separate species. I thought that distinction was only introduced in the Forerunner saga novels... -[[User:ScaleMaster117|ScaleMaster117]] ([[User talk:ScaleMaster117|talk]]) 07:32, December 19, 2022 (EST)

::I believe that my points are being left as they are, so I'm adding my proposed changes. [[User:TNS22|TNS22]] ([[User talk:TNS22|talk]]) 10:03, December 19, 2022 (EST)

:::Us on the team are still discussing stuff regarding this on the Discord! 😀 We'll probably post here after/before we done some Tweeks!-[[User:CIA391|CIA391]] ([[User talk:CIA391|talk]]) 14:08, December 19, 2022 (EST)

::::Ok! So I've seen the new [https://www.halopedia.org/index.php?title=Terminal_(Halo_3)&oldid=1565945 edit] from [[User:Tacitus|Tacitus]] and I have to say I'm thrilled with this! I really have to thank the staff for being able to take the criticism and keeping all my proposed changes! I was honestly thinking this would be a much more heated discussion, but I'm very glad it's been calm and simple.

::::And the decision to merge down the "In ''The Forerunner Saga''" into the "Production Notes" section is a really great one, it looks much nicer this way. I think having the main issue in it's own part in there is also the right move.

::::The lore clarifications and additions made are also appreciated, I think the article is super clear and accurate to current knowledge about all the little details and contentions. In particular the clarification on the exact differences between the original idea and the terminals/iris are really good. Also the point on The Forerunner Saga's point of view is great too, I struggled find a way to word that myself, good change.

::::As someone on the original side of the debate I do want to say that I don't agree with the part on where it says where Contact Harvest and lines Halo 3 may imply the original idea wouldn't be contradictions with the terminals, if they ''do'' mean to say Forerunners are ancient humans as originally thought than wouldn't that be a contradiction the terminals? And isn't that proven for Contact Harvest? I think a better way to say it is that they could be understood in another context regardless. Maybe I'm misunderstanding. But of course given that we don't know what the actual intentions of any exact lines I'm not saying for certain, and I suppose this could be a way of being neutral showing "both sides" as I originally proposed so I'll just leave it at that. :P

::::The one and only thing I think should be changed is the edit from:
:::: * '''"However, it is not known exactly what stance he might have taken on the team." --> "However, how much he knew remains uncertain"''''
::::I don't understand the new phrasing here, It's not about knowledge, it's about what Joe's intention was right? Isn't it about if he was writing with the original forerunners idea or the new one? If the idea is to make it less combative I think it should be:
:::: * ''''"However, what his intentions might have been remains uncertain."''' or '''"However, what implications he may had remains uncertain."'''
::::Or something along those lines.

::::Again, thanks for listening and for all the great additions! I imagine it was a little tense but I think this has worked out just fine. [[User:TNS22|TNS22]] ([[User talk:TNS22|talk]]) 12:36, December 20, 2022 (EST)

:::::Glad to have this resolved. For the record, I actually agree with your points (and interpretation of Russel's tweets ''and'' the terminals) as do several others in the team. It was mostly just a matter of phrasing things right.

:::::To clarify: ''Contact Harvest'' is not an ''explicit'' contradiction because the information is presented to us by an in-universe character (Mendicant Bias) who may be mistaken. Now, this was almost certainly not Joe Staten's intent at the time, but it's a reasonable interpretation in a scenario where humans and Forerunners are biologically near-identical (which may still be the case if they were uplifted early humans; the biological connection in the original context could've been very close, we just don't know), same with Truth, Guilty Spark, or the Gravemind alluding to humans as being Forerunners. It only becomes a contradiction after the Forerunner Saga clearly establishes them as distinct species, to the point that them being mistaken for the same one isn't as likely anymore. Nevertheless, I see your point about that sentence and it's been changed. --[[User:Tacitus|Tacitus]] ([[User talk:Tacitus|talk]]) 13:19, December 20, 2022 (EST)

::::::I'm glad that we agree, and also to have this resolved. While I still personally think Contact Harvest contradicts the terminals because of Staten's intention, I suppose it's a matter of [https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WatsonianVersusDoylist Watsonian versus Doylist] ideology. And also yeah, I think it's good for neutrality.

::::::Finally, I also want to ask if [[Forerunner#Production_notes]] should be updated. I think actions removing "Potentially" from Contact Harvest's mention and changing/clarifying the part about "During the development of Halo 3, this changed so that humans and Forerunners were suggested to be distinct from one another" should be done. [[User:TNS22|TNS22]] ([[User talk:TNS22|talk]]) 13:57, December 20, 2022 (EST)
:::::::Feel free to update the relevant section of the Forerunner article if you like, using this one as a base yeah. No need to ask permission for stuff like that - usually if they're not being done it's simply because someone's just not got around to it yet lol.[[User:BaconShelf|<span style="color:green;">BaconShelf</span>]] <span style="font-size:90%">([[User:BaconShelf|talk]])</span> 14:00, December 20, 2022 (EST)