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Talk:Egret Spaceliner: Difference between revisions
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== Size == | == Size == | ||
Any indication on the size of this thing in terms of length? I don't have access to Reach at the moment so I couldn't hazard a guess. I'm assuming more ship-sized than aircraft, seeing as it has room for 600 passengers... [[User talk:Diaboy|Diaboy]] 14:55, 25 December 2010 (EST) | Any indication on the size of this thing in terms of length? I don't have access to Reach at the moment so I couldn't hazard a guess. I'm assuming more ship-sized than aircraft, seeing as it has room for 600 passengers... [[User talk:Diaboy|Diaboy]] 14:55, 25 December 2010 (EST) | ||
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:I can see that. But just as you said, they are like UNSC frigates, which is definitely a starship. If they have specialized VTOL engines like on the UNSC Frigate, then they must use them only, and I stress ''only'', for take-off. And it seems to me that these ships have certain starship characteristics common in most human-designed starships in ''Halo''. Correct me if I'm wrong, which I very much doubt, but it does seem to me that it does have a somewhat thicker hull, indication of what suggests an internal pressurized atmosphere that would be used for most starships, not just spacecraft in general. Besides, ''Halo'' is science fiction, so therefore spacecraft become spaceships or starships. --[[User talk:Xamikaze330|Xamikaze330]] 13:15, 28 November 2011 (EST)Xamikaze330 | :I can see that. But just as you said, they are like UNSC frigates, which is definitely a starship. If they have specialized VTOL engines like on the UNSC Frigate, then they must use them only, and I stress ''only'', for take-off. And it seems to me that these ships have certain starship characteristics common in most human-designed starships in ''Halo''. Correct me if I'm wrong, which I very much doubt, but it does seem to me that it does have a somewhat thicker hull, indication of what suggests an internal pressurized atmosphere that would be used for most starships, not just spacecraft in general. Besides, ''Halo'' is science fiction, so therefore spacecraft become spaceships or starships. --[[User talk:Xamikaze330|Xamikaze330]] 13:15, 28 November 2011 (EST)Xamikaze330 | ||
Not always. The [[Vulture]] appears to float similarly like a Frigate (minus the propellors it uses for turning), and can exit out of the atmosphere to a limited extent, but that doesn't make it capable of slipspace travel, or even intended for long distance out-of-atmosphere travel. Whether the hull looks thicker or not is hard to tell from the outside, so again we can not assume what | Not always. The [[Vulture]] appears to float similarly like a Frigate (minus the propellors it uses for turning), and can exit out of the atmosphere to a limited extent, but that doesn't make it capable of slipspace travel, or even intended for long distance out-of-atmosphere travel. Whether the hull looks thicker or not is hard to tell from the outside, so again we can not assume what its capabilities are without any kind of proof of them. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 14:11, 28 November 2011 (EST) | ||
:It's a starship. There is no other logical explanation. I mean, where else would those ships go? The entire planet Reach has been compromised by the Covenant. No place planetside is considered "safe" from the Covenant. So logically, the ships would have to leave Reach orbit and head out-system to another uncompromised UNSC-controlled planet, after following the Cole Protocol. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: gravitational slingshot trajectory. It all makes sense. A ship doesn't necessarily need a bulky rocket booster pack to break planetary gravity, they can just use the planet's gravity to do it for them, to help them. Their fusion drive engines are powerful enough, the hull thick enough to withstand the burning atmospheric friction, what else could it be except a civilian starship? Did I mention that the ships seemed to be heading out-of-atmosphere, out-of-orbit? --[[User talk:Xamikaze330|Xamikaze330]] 14:27, 28 November 2011 (EST)Xamikaze330 | :It's a starship. There is no other logical explanation. I mean, where else would those ships go? The entire planet Reach has been compromised by the Covenant. No place planetside is considered "safe" from the Covenant. So logically, the ships would have to leave Reach orbit and head out-system to another uncompromised UNSC-controlled planet, after following the Cole Protocol. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: gravitational slingshot trajectory. It all makes sense. A ship doesn't necessarily need a bulky rocket booster pack to break planetary gravity, they can just use the planet's gravity to do it for them, to help them. Their fusion drive engines are powerful enough, the hull thick enough to withstand the burning atmospheric friction, what else could it be except a civilian starship? Did I mention that the ships seemed to be heading out-of-atmosphere, out-of-orbit? --[[User talk:Xamikaze330|Xamikaze330]] 14:27, 28 November 2011 (EST)Xamikaze330 | ||
As of August 23rd, the Fleet of Particular Justice had not arrived and most of the Covenant fighting was still relegated to the Viery Territory. So there were still plenty safe places of Reach as the full battle had not emerged yet. Can you prove that "the ships seemed to be heading out-of-atmosphere, out-of-orbit"? [[:File:Transports Away.png|It doesn't look it]], there's no proof of that. And just because something looks like it can exit the atmosphere doesn't make it capable of interplanetary travel. Look at the Pelican, it can exit into space, and attempt a slingshot orbit but that doesn't make it slipspace travel capable. One can interepret that they ''might'' be spaceships, but there's no proof of that, only interpretation. Until you have proof that "their fusion drive engines are powerful enough, the hull thick enough to withstand the burning atmospheric friction", then it can not be legitimately claimed that it is a spacecraft and that there is "no other logical explanation". "VTOL Airplane" works just fine. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 14:59, 28 November 2011 (EST) | As of August 23rd, the Fleet of Particular Justice had not arrived and most of the Covenant fighting was still relegated to the Viery Territory. So there were still plenty safe places of Reach as the full battle had not emerged yet. Can you prove that "the ships seemed to be heading out-of-atmosphere, out-of-orbit"? [[:File:Transports Away.png|It doesn't look it]], there's no proof of that. And just because something looks like it can exit the atmosphere doesn't make it capable of interplanetary travel. Look at the Pelican, it can exit into space, and attempt a slingshot orbit but that doesn't make it slipspace travel capable. One can interepret that they ''might'' be spaceships, but there's no proof of that, only interpretation. Until you have proof that "their fusion drive engines are powerful enough, the hull thick enough to withstand the burning atmospheric friction", then it can not be legitimately claimed that it is a spacecraft and that there is "no other logical explanation". "VTOL Airplane" works just fine. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 14:59, 28 November 2011 (EST) | ||
:I prefer to reason rather than rely on logic. Expanding upon Tuckers' comment, while the entirety of Reach is indeed compromised by the Covenant fleet's presence compromised, it does not mean that the UNSC on Reach has not secured a safe location to vacate the civilian populace safely. Additionally, we know nothing about their propulsion, other than their engines are capable of VTOL; thus, to assume that they have either slipspace drive or even a fusion drive would be merely speculation since there is no evidence of this.— <span style="font-size:16px; font-family:OrbitronMedium;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span> 15:05, 28 November 2011 (EST) | |||
::Maybe so, but let's keep in mind that the Covenant often glass the planets of their enemies, and when they do, they glass every square inch, except for the one location of the Forerunner facility underneath Castle Base, underneath Menachite Mountain. Aside from that, they glassed every other square meter and mile of Reach's surface. Not that I'm saying that what you're saying isn't possible. In any case, must it remain being called a "craft"? Can it be renamed a "ship"? --[[User talk:Xamikaze330|Xamikaze330]] 18:30, 28 November 2011 (EST)Xamikaze330 | |||
:::Thorough glassing, as you described above, does not occur until August 30th, when the Covenant has effectively removed the strong UNSC presence from the planet. Ship is synonymous with craft; there's no point of changing it since they are the same.— <span style="font-size:16px; font-family:OrbitronMedium;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span> 18:43, 28 November 2011 (EST) | |||
::"Craft" is also an all-encompassing term, "ship" referring more directly to a water or space vessel, hence "spacecraft", "watercraft", or "aircraft". This transport is at least an aircraft, therefore the term "craft" in the title remains. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 19:28, 28 November 2011 (EST) | |||
:::I Just remembered something I saw in the article itself. It says that these "craft" are seen in New Alexandria Starport. Note that it says ''"Starport"'' and not ''"Airport"''. Because of this, I suspect this means that these actually are, as I have always suspected, transport starships. Otherwise, why would these be grounded at a starport if they were not starships? If they were some kind of aircraft, then wouldn't they be grounded at an airport? And I saw that you, Tuckerscreator, noted that today's commercial airplanes are designed to float for a period of time when landing (or rather, crashing) in the water to allow passengers to safely evacuate, and yet, you also noted that the "craft" immediately sank right after hitting the water. So, if this were an aircraft, as it seems to me you are suggesting it may be, then logically, the UNSC or CMA or whatever organization would have kept something that still worked from the 21st century to the 26th century and used it for these crafts. But it's possible these really are some kind of starship...Need I go on? I would also add that [[User:FatalSnipe117|FatalSnipe117]] noted something similar about the hull being made of Titanium-A, which is ''not'' buoyant according to scientific tests, and of course not to mention the part where it did get hit by a plasma torpedo impact, causing a major hull breach. But that's beside the point. Point is, why are they seen at New Alexandria Starport if they are not starships? --[[User talk:Xamikaze330|Xamikaze330]] 11:32, 17 February 2012 (EST)Xamikaze330 | |||
::The consensus was that the reason the craft sank was because the plasma torpedo breached its hull. Modern airplanes are also made of titanium, which is actually lighter than steel, and still float. It'd be a terrible idea to build such a sinkable vehicles next to a bay. It's also dramatic effect: "Oh no, plane full of innocents has been shot down!" "Just pick them up from the lifeboats, they'll be fine." "Starport"'s a good point, though. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 11:54, 17 February 2012 (EST) | |||
::''"Titanium-A, which is ''not'' buoyant according to scientific tests"'' -- citation needed. Titanium-A is a fictional element, so how can it be subjected to current scientific tests? | |||
::I always consider spaceport/starport to be the next airport, that is it still possesses the functionalities of airports but its sole construction is for space/interstellar travels. That said, airport has evolved into spaceport/starport and that all aircrafts can also operate within a spaceport. Of course, this is simply an assumption of mine but it fits nicely into explaining why this craft is still not a starcraft/starship and why it is in a spaceport/starport.— <span style="font-size:16px; font-family:OrbitronMedium;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span> 12:06, 17 February 2012 (EST) | |||
::Thank you, I am aware of that. It's just the science fiction version of an airport, except designed more in the way of starships. Sorry about the Titanium-A part not being buoyant, what I meant to say was that in the real world, for what I've learned in all my science classes in high school, titanium is not buoyant, meaning it can't float the same way something like volcanic pumice rocks can float in water. Same thing goes for steel and whatnot. --[[User talk:Xamikaze330|Xamikaze330]] 12:10, 17 February 2012 (EST)Xamikaze330 | |||
==Intro Image Removed: Why?== | ==Intro Image Removed: Why?== | ||
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:To me, the hull breach seems the most likely; after all, if the ship couldn't float in water, then it seems unsafe to put the loading dock right next to a harbor. Anyway, should it be noted in the article? [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 02:41, 23 August 2011 (EDT) | :To me, the hull breach seems the most likely; after all, if the ship couldn't float in water, then it seems unsafe to put the loading dock right next to a harbor. Anyway, should it be noted in the article? [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 02:41, 23 August 2011 (EDT) | ||
==Transport craft in ''Halo: Initiation''== | |||
Since we've seen these craft flying in space around Lockhart Medical Station of ''Halo: Initiation'', can we finally change it to "Unidentified civilian transport ship"? Because that's what they are. I don't wish to start another edit/debate war or whatever, but the evidence is all there and very clear. There's even a note at the end of the article that clearly implies that they are in fact space-worthy vessels, what with being equipped with Slipspace drives and all. And then it's back to ''Halo: Initation''. Need I say any more? --'''''[[User:Xamikaze330|<span style="color:Black; font-family: Halo;">Xamikaze330</span>]]''''' <small>['''''[[User talk:Xamikaze330|<font color="Blue">Transmission</font>]]'''''|'''''[[Special:Contributions/Xamikaze330|<font color="Green">Commencing</font>]]''''']</small> 15:38, 1 February 2014 (EST)Xamikaze330 | |||
:I'm gonna just [[#Proposed_Article_Change:_Unidentified_civilian_transport_ship|repeat my previous comment]]: "''Ship is synonymous with craft; there's no point of changing it since they are the same.''" — <span style="font-size:14px; font-family:Arial;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span> 17:28, 1 February 2014 (EST) | |||
::Alright, fine. Have it your way. Just prefer "ship" to the more generic "craft". But whatever. --'''''[[User:Xamikaze330|<span style="color:Black; font-family: Halo;">Xamikaze330</span>]]''''' <small>['''''[[User talk:Xamikaze330|<font color="Blue">Transmission</font>]]'''''|'''''[[Special:Contributions/Xamikaze330|<font color="Green">Commencing</font>]]''''']</small> 20:42, 1 February 2014 (EST)Xamikaze330 | |||