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Talk:Sarcophagus: Difference between revisions
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==Name== | ==Name== | ||
Should this page be titled "The Sharpened Shield"? It was given that name first by the Forerunners, so wouldn't that title have precedence over ONI's? [[User talk:SPARTAN-347|SPARTAN-347]] 23:18, 31 October 2011 (EDT) | Should this page be titled "The Sharpened Shield"? It was given that name first by the Forerunners, so wouldn't that title have precedence over ONI's? [[User talk:SPARTAN-347|SPARTAN-347]] 23:18, 31 October 2011 (EDT) | ||
:See [http://www.halopedian.com/Talk:Dyson_sphere#Make_a_page_for_Forerunner_Shield_World_Trevelyan| this].--''''' | :See [http://www.halopedian.com/Talk:Dyson_sphere#Make_a_page_for_Forerunner_Shield_World_Trevelyan| this].--'''''<span style="color:green">Lt. Commander</span>''''' [[User:Halofan1234|<span style="color:cyan">光环的家伙1234</span>]] '''''[[User talk:Halofan1234|<span style="color:purple">Talk</span>]]''''' ''([[Special:Contributions/Halofan1234|<span style="color:gold">Contribs</span>]])'' '''([[Special:Editcount/Halofan1234|<span style"color:cyan">Edits</span>]])''' 23:27, 31 October 2011 (EDT) | ||
::Even with that, I'm not fully convinced about the name either. We usually tend to use the original names for things, such as "Sangheili" or "Unggoy" instead of "Elite" or "Grunt". ONI's name isn't even a rename ''per se'', it's just an alternate name used by the humans who don't know the original name which, to me, seems more proper in this context. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 05:36, 1 November 2011 (EDT) | ::Even with that, I'm not fully convinced about the name either. We usually tend to use the original names for things, such as "Sangheili" or "Unggoy" instead of "Elite" or "Grunt". ONI's name isn't even a rename ''per se'', it's just an alternate name used by the humans who don't know the original name which, to me, seems more proper in this context. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 05:36, 1 November 2011 (EDT) | ||
:::Even then, we don`t always use the original Forerunner names. For example we call it Earth and Mars, not "Erde-Tyrene" and "Edom".--[[File:Emblem 1.jpg|20px]][[User:Rusty-112|<span style="background:blue;font-size:12pt;color:white;">''' Rusty '''</span>]] | :::Even then, we don`t always use the original Forerunner names. For example we call it Earth and Mars, not "Erde-Tyrene" and "Edom".--[[File:Emblem 1.jpg|20px]][[User:Rusty-112|<span style="background:blue;font-size:12pt;color:white;">''' Rusty '''</span>]]UserWiki:Rusty-112|<span style="background:blue;font-size:12pt;color:white;">'''- 112 '''</span>]] 00:03, 8 November 2011 (EST) | ||
::::True, it's not that clear-cut. However, I would still say that there is a difference between a planet and an artificial construct in that the name given by the builders is likely to be the most proper or neutral in the case of the latter, not to mention it would be consistent with us using the Forerunner names for the Halo installations. A planet is essentially eternal as far as the known history of the Halo universe is concerned, and they usually aren't ''built'' by anybody, so in their case it makes sense to use the newest or most well-known name. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 02:03, 8 November 2011 (EST) | ::::True, it's not that clear-cut. However, I would still say that there is a difference between a planet and an artificial construct in that the name given by the builders is likely to be the most proper or neutral in the case of the latter, not to mention it would be consistent with us using the Forerunner names for the Halo installations. A planet is essentially eternal as far as the known history of the Halo universe is concerned, and they usually aren't ''built'' by anybody, so in their case it makes sense to use the newest or most well-known name. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 02:03, 8 November 2011 (EST) | ||
==Name v2== | ==Name v2== | ||
It seems we might have to reconsider the primary title of this article. Taking a look at the [http://www.halopedian.com/index.php?title=Sharpened_Shield&action=history edit history] of the page [[Sharpened Shield]] or | It seems we might have to reconsider the primary title of this article. Taking a look at the [http://www.halopedian.com/index.php?title=Sharpened_Shield&action=history edit history] of the page [[Sharpened Shield]] or its talk page, I noticed that the name "Sharpened Shield" was originally used here, on this site. This was quite a surprise, since I had assumed it was coined by the ''Encyclopedia'' writers. Instead, this is another one of those things that the ''Encyclopedia'' actually borrowed from here. | ||
What makes it even more bizarre is how the page "Sharpened Shield" was eventually redirected to "[[Shield World]]", because people here realized it was never an official title. It appears to have been derived from a piece of Forerunner text which appears a couple of times in ''Ghosts of Onyx''; "And bless the Reclaimers that may take refuge behind the sharpened edge of the Shield..." but the name "Sharpened Shield" never appeared in any official material before someone here on Halopedia decided to use it. | What makes it even more bizarre is how the page "Sharpened Shield" was eventually redirected to "[[Shield World]]", because people here realized it was never an official title. It appears to have been derived from a piece of Forerunner text which appears a couple of times in ''Ghosts of Onyx''; "And bless the Reclaimers that may take refuge behind the sharpened edge of the Shield..." but the name "Sharpened Shield" never appeared in any official material before someone here on Halopedia decided to use it. | ||
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::::There's some of our old content in the ''Essential Visual Guide'' as well, like the name "[[Mombasa Tether|New Mombasa Orbital Elevator]]" (never used in official sources before) and the rank [[Kig-yar Zealot]] (which proved to be a misinterpretation as opposed to a real rank). Not sure if there's more, but at least it's nothing as extensive as in the ''Encyclopedia''. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 09:17, 11 April 2012 (EDT) | ::::There's some of our old content in the ''Essential Visual Guide'' as well, like the name "[[Mombasa Tether|New Mombasa Orbital Elevator]]" (never used in official sources before) and the rank [[Kig-yar Zealot]] (which proved to be a misinterpretation as opposed to a real rank). Not sure if there's more, but at least it's nothing as extensive as in the ''Encyclopedia''. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 09:17, 11 April 2012 (EDT) | ||
:Regardless of where it originated, doesn't the name's place in the ''Encycopedia'' make it canon? So the fans came up with it first, what's the big deal? Why does an official source adopting something fan-made make it any less canon? The Sharpened Shield seems fine to me, and being the actual Forerunner name for it, is a sight better than the UNSC designation. - | :Regardless of where it originated, doesn't the name's place in the ''Encycopedia'' make it canon? So the fans came up with it first, what's the big deal? Why does an official source adopting something fan-made make it any less canon? The Sharpened Shield seems fine to me, and being the actual Forerunner name for it, is a sight better than the UNSC designation. - [[User:Halo-343|<span style="color: purple; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 128%;">'''Halo-343'''</span>]] [[User talk:Halo-343|<font color="green">('''Talk''')</font>]] 10:43, 11 April 2012 (EDT) | ||
::I realize it should ''technically'' be taken as canon, but I believe the origin of the name should be taken into consideration. It's well known how flawed the ''Encyclopedia'' is, and to me, using the name is only benefits the random fan who happened to come up with it. If they were lucky enough, any fan could've inserted their personal fanon here at the right time and it would've been incidentally "canonized" when the ''Encyclopedia'' writers browsed the wiki for their source material. To add to that, the ''Encyclopedia'' wasn't apparently even written by 343 employees for the most part, just "in collaboration with 343 Industries" as stated in the back cover blurb. This, in addition to the numerous other mistakes in that book, makes it an issue to me. Besides, we've already decided to ignore other similar cases, like "United Rebel Front" or the "First" and "Second" Battles of Earth, because they originated from here, despite them appearing in an "official" document. | ::I realize it should ''technically'' be taken as canon, but I believe the origin of the name should be taken into consideration. It's well known how flawed the ''Encyclopedia'' is, and to me, using the name is only benefits the random fan who happened to come up with it. If they were lucky enough, any fan could've inserted their personal fanon here at the right time and it would've been incidentally "canonized" when the ''Encyclopedia'' writers browsed the wiki for their source material. To add to that, the ''Encyclopedia'' wasn't apparently even written by 343 employees for the most part, just "in collaboration with 343 Industries" as stated in the back cover blurb. This, in addition to the numerous other mistakes in that book, makes it an issue to me. Besides, we've already decided to ignore other similar cases, like "United Rebel Front" or the "First" and "Second" Battles of Earth, because they originated from here, despite them appearing in an "official" document. | ||
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::If the name had not originated from a random fan, however, I would've definitely preferred it as the main title as opposed to the UNSC one. In fact I did, before I realized where it came from. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 11:11, 11 April 2012 (EDT) | ::If the name had not originated from a random fan, however, I would've definitely preferred it as the main title as opposed to the UNSC one. In fact I did, before I realized where it came from. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 11:11, 11 April 2012 (EDT) | ||
:::Oh yes, I absolutely understand that we should always be wary of information within the ''Encyclopedia'', but the difference here is that there is no contradictory evidence within the established canon to suggest that it isn't called The Sharpened Shield. Examples such as the "First" and "Second" Battles of Earth were known to be false precisely because there was previously established canon to tell us otherwise. This isn't the case with "The Sharpened Shield", which something new altogether. - | :::Oh yes, I absolutely understand that we should always be wary of information within the ''Encyclopedia'', but the difference here is that there is no contradictory evidence within the established canon to suggest that it isn't called The Sharpened Shield. Examples such as the "First" and "Second" Battles of Earth were known to be false precisely because there was previously established canon to tell us otherwise. This isn't the case with "The Sharpened Shield", which something new altogether. - [[User:Halo-343|<span style="color: purple; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 128%;">'''Halo-343'''</span>]] [[User talk:Halo-343|<font color="green">('''Talk''')</font>]] 11:56, 11 April 2012 (EDT) | ||
::::This shows how much influence the wiki has on official media and development, and how disastrous it could be if we - the editors - do not scrutinise each official source made available to us. It also made it more apparent that we need more quality control to make sure that anything and everything added to the wiki must be assessed critically to make sure that misinterpreted information don't get "canonised" (nifty word). I guess the ilovebee rule (''"the content should be considered canonical unless contradicted by more authoritative sources"'') would apply.— <span style="font-size:16px; font-family:OrbitronMedium;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span> 14:39, 11 April 2012 (EDT) | ::::This shows how much influence the wiki has on official media and development, and how disastrous it could be if we - the editors - do not scrutinise each official source made available to us. It also made it more apparent that we need more quality control to make sure that anything and everything added to the wiki must be assessed critically to make sure that misinterpreted information don't get "canonised" (nifty word). I guess the ilovebee rule (''"the content should be considered canonical unless contradicted by more authoritative sources"'') would apply.— <span style="font-size:16px; font-family:OrbitronMedium;">[[User:Subtank|<span style="color:#FF4F00;">subtank</span>]]</span> 14:39, 11 April 2012 (EDT) | ||
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:::This makes a lot more sense, actually. Sarcophagus is a very fitting name for the shield world as a whole, given the role it had been meant to play. [[User:Japeth555|Japeth555]] ([[User talk:Japeth555|talk]]) 23:00, 5 March 2017 (EST)Japeth555 | :::This makes a lot more sense, actually. Sarcophagus is a very fitting name for the shield world as a whole, given the role it had been meant to play. [[User:Japeth555|Japeth555]] ([[User talk:Japeth555|talk]]) 23:00, 5 March 2017 (EST)Japeth555 | ||
''(reset indent)'' Digging into ''Glasslands'' & ''The Thursday War'', there are actually a couple of mentions that explicitly associate the word "sarcophagus" with just the hangar facility: | |||
GL, p273:<br> | |||
The panel appeared to be instructions for decontaminating vessels with possible Flood contagion. There was a mention of the word that the program interpreted intriguingly as either ''barn'' or ''tomb'', but that she suspected was ''garage''. | |||
''Or storehouse. Or sarcophagus. Or mausoleum—perhaps they liked to have their possessions in their tombs, like we once did.'' | |||
TTW, p176:<br> | |||
“Yes. He went down there—ahhhh. Look at that.” It was another panel of carvings. “That’s like the one in the Dyson sphere. The storehouse-garage-sarcophagus symbol. And lots of negative symbols. I might have to send this back to the Admiral and ask for a Huragok to take a look at it.” | |||
But with Prone to Drift's introduction and the usage in the Loot Crate, I don't think it's entire unreasonable to apply it to the entire shield world. Given the slight uncertainty involved, however, I'd rather we used the more established "Shield World 006" for the article title. --[[User:Jugus|Jugus]] ([[User talk:Jugus|talk]]) 09:19, 9 March 2017 (EST) | |||
:These quotes only seem to confirm the name further for me, or at least that "Sarcophagus" is a good approximation of the Forerunner term that is the actual name, of course.[[User:Japeth555|Japeth555]] ([[User talk:Japeth555|talk]]) 09:30, 9 March 2017 (EST)Japeth555 | |||
::Eh, I don't know. Something about it still rubs me the wrong way - they seem to be rather clearly applying the label "sarcophagus" specifically to the "garage" section of the shield world as opposed to the whole structure, while the Prone to Drift quote could be interpreted either way. --[[User:Jugus|Jugus]] ([[User talk:Jugus|talk]]) 10:44, 25 May 2017 (EDT) | |||
''(reset indent)'' What does ''Warfleet'' call the structure? If it doesn't mention "Sarcophagus" as a name specifically for the sphere, I'm heavily in favor of going back to "Shield World 006" as the main title just so we won't end up being wrong as per my above point. That, or finding some satisfactory way of merging this with the [[Onyx]] page, seeing as everyone both in and out of universe is calling the sphere Onyx anyway (most recently in the description for ''[[Halo: Legacy of Onyx]]''); I'm of the mind that Onyx/Shield World 006 is (or was) a general name for the whole shield installation, which includes both the sphere and the now-destroyed artificial planet (seeing as ''Mythos'' referred to the "shield world Onyx"). Could one of the Twitter or other social media people inquire Grim or someone about this? --[[User:Jugus|Jugus]] ([[User talk:Jugus|talk]]) 10:05, 6 September 2017 (EDT) | |||
:Actually, that's a good point. ''Warfleet'' refers to Shield World 0459 as the "Etran Harborage", but refers to this structure as "Shield 0006", a quarantine safeguard. --[[User:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">'''NightHammer'''</span>]]''<sup>[[User talk:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(talk)</span>]]</sup><sup>[[Special:Contributions/NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(contribs)</span>]]</sup>'' 14:34, 6 September 2017 (EDT) | |||
Bump on my above point. I used to be against merging this page with [[Onyx]] for reasons of clarity, but given that Onyx the planet and Dyson sphere are clearly thought of as two aspects of the same shield installation, I no longer think a merge is altogether unreasonable. I was waiting for ''Legacy of Onyx'' to come out to see if anyone used the alternative name(s) for the shell in the book and while one might argue ''LoO'' isn't necessarily the best source for deep Halo lore, I guess 343i could've been trying to make a point with the naming. The only issue with a merge that I could see would be clarity and making even the uninitiated reader understand the Dyson shell isn't just the interior of the planet as with the Etran Harborage, for instance, and the article would need some reorganization. Other than that, I think having them in one page would be a more convenient and compact solution at this point. --[[User:Jugus|Jugus]] ([[User talk:Jugus|talk]]) 03:39, 28 November 2017 (EST) | |||
:It looks like Onyx is still used to refer to the shield world, while Trevelyan only refers to the ONI facility. Merging them would be a decent option. --[[User:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">'''NightHammer'''</span>]]''<sup>[[User talk:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(talk)</span>]]</sup><sup>[[Special:Contributions/NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(contribs)</span>]]</sup>'' 18:53, 18 December 2017 (EST) | |||