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{{Archived}} | |||
==Its an Assault Carrier but FlagShip?== | ==Its an Assault Carrier but FlagShip?== | ||
We've established that is an Assault Carrier, | We've established that is an Assault Carrier, click here for the full discussion, but below are the highlights: | ||
# | #In this Image HBO does calls it an Assault Carrier -- [[User:Esemono|Esemono]] | ||
#{{quote|Registering all hostile vessels inside the kill zone. Thirteen cruisers, two '''assault carriers'''. I'm going loud!|[[Cortana]] in the | #{{quote|Registering all hostile vessels inside the kill zone. Thirteen cruisers, two '''assault carriers'''. I'm going loud!|[[Cortana]] in the First Battle of Earth}} | ||
::the above quote was provided by [[User:RelentlessRecusant|RelentlessRecusant]] | ::the above quote was provided by [[User:RelentlessRecusant|RelentlessRecusant]] | ||
Now is it a flagship? | Now is it a flagship? | ||
#The flagship is ''two kilometers long'' and from Stephen Loftus's work on HBO, the assault carrier is ''something like five kilometers long''. Cheers, '''[[User:RelentlessRecusant|<font color="red">Relentless</font>]][[User talk:RelentlessRecusant|<font color="blue">Recusant</font> | #The flagship is ''two kilometers long'' and from Stephen Loftus's work on HBO, the assault carrier is ''something like five kilometers long''. Cheers, '''[[User:RelentlessRecusant|<font color="red">Relentless</font>]][[User talk:RelentlessRecusant|<font color="blue">Recusant</font>]]''' | ||
::*[cough]three kilometers, not two[/cough]--'''[[User:Rotaretilbo|Rot]]''' 1535 9.12.06 | ::*[cough]three kilometers, not two[/cough]--'''[[User:Rotaretilbo|Rot]]''' 1535 9.12.06 | ||
A flagship can be anything I think,the best way to know the Assault Carrier's role is to know a Super Star Destroyer from Star Wars,both serve as flagships even though there both friggin huge and powerful.[[User:Sith Venator|Sith Venator]] 00:41, 24 November 2008 (UTC) | A flagship can be anything I think,the best way to know the Assault Carrier's role is to know a Super Star Destroyer from Star Wars,both serve as flagships even though there both friggin huge and powerful.[[User:Sith Venator|Sith Venator]] 00:41, 24 November 2008 (UTC) | ||
:The name comes from when a ship carried its fleet's commanding officer, it would run up a flag signifying that. So technically, a flagship could be any ship that has its Fleet Master/Admiral aboard it. And given their rank and status, they'd favour carriers, cruisers, etc over smaller ships. So Ascendant Justice might not even be a Carrier, for that matter - perhaps a very large Cruiser? --''' | :The name comes from when a ship carried its fleet's commanding officer, it would run up a flag signifying that. So technically, a flagship could be any ship that has its Fleet Master/Admiral aboard it. And given their rank and status, they'd favour carriers, cruisers, etc over smaller ships. So Ascendant Justice might not even be a Carrier, for that matter - perhaps a very large Cruiser? --'''CoH|<font color=purple>Councillor</font>]] [[User:Specops306|<font color=blue>Specops306</font>]]''' - '''''[[User Talk:Specops306|<font color=blue>Kora</font>]] UserWiki:Specops306|<font color=purple>'Morhek</font>]]''''' 01:55, 24 November 2008 (UTC) | ||
An Example of the above comment would be the Forward unto Dawn being used as a flagship, over the large and more powerful vessels, if any are left that is. [[User talk:Honor Guard Reborn|"Die? Didn't you know?...Spartans don't die."]] 22:14, September 14, 2009 (UTC) | An Example of the above comment would be the Forward unto Dawn being used as a flagship, over the large and more powerful vessels, if any are left that is. [[User talk:Honor Guard Reborn|"Die? Didn't you know?...Spartans don't die."]] 22:14, September 14, 2009 (UTC) | ||
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*Well, I don't think the ''Ascendant Justice'' is an Assault Carrier for that matter anyway. The ''Ascendant Justice'' is 3000m long and is bulbous like a covenant destroyer, whereas the Assault Carrier we see in Halo 2 is supposed to be somewhere around 5000m long and isn't bulbous, more round and flat.--'''[[User:Rotaretilbo|Rot]]''' 1853 7.12.06 | *Well, I don't think the ''Ascendant Justice'' is an Assault Carrier for that matter anyway. The ''Ascendant Justice'' is 3000m long and is bulbous like a covenant destroyer, whereas the Assault Carrier we see in Halo 2 is supposed to be somewhere around 5000m long and isn't bulbous, more round and flat.--'''[[User:Rotaretilbo|Rot]]''' 1853 7.12.06 | ||
:*I believe it was mentioned as such in the FS but I don't have the book with me. The ''Ascendant Justice'' was listed in this article when it was migrated and as such I am unable to tell who first stated that the ''Ascendant Justice'' was a [[Covenant | :*I believe it was mentioned as such in the FS but I don't have the book with me. The ''Ascendant Justice'' was listed in this article when it was migrated and as such I am unable to tell who first stated that the ''Ascendant Justice'' was a [[Covenant assault carrier]]. Although [[User:Dragonclaws|Admin Dragonclaws]] seems to have written it. -- [[User:Esemono|Esemono]] 03:09, 8 December 2006 (UTC) | ||
::*[[Halo: First Strike]] only refers to the ''Ascendant Justice'' as a flagship, and makes a reference that it is a carrier. However, Carrier and Assault Carrier may well be seperate ships, as Assault Carrier might be a larger version of Carrier, similar to the Supercarrier. However, all of that is also speculation, so for now I would say that we cannot say with 100% surity (is that a word? better than sureness I suppose) that the ''Ascendant Justice'' is of the Assault Carrier variety, so it should be removed from the article.--'''[[User:Rotaretilbo|Rot]]''' 2147 7.12.06 | ::*[[Halo: First Strike]] only refers to the ''Ascendant Justice'' as a flagship, and makes a reference that it is a carrier. However, Carrier and Assault Carrier may well be seperate ships, as Assault Carrier might be a larger version of Carrier, similar to the Supercarrier. However, all of that is also speculation, so for now I would say that we cannot say with 100% surity (is that a word? better than sureness I suppose) that the ''Ascendant Justice'' is of the Assault Carrier variety, so it should be removed from the article.--'''[[User:Rotaretilbo|Rot]]''' 2147 7.12.06 | ||
:::*I've grown tired of waiting for resistance, so I've changed the page to fit with what I believe to be fact. If you disagree, post here and if you so strongly disagree that you believe what I have done is heresy, put a FactOrFiction thingy up or restore the page or something.--'''[[User:Rotaretilbo|Rot]]''' 1305 9.12.06 | :::*I've grown tired of waiting for resistance, so I've changed the page to fit with what I believe to be fact. If you disagree, post here and if you so strongly disagree that you believe what I have done is heresy, put a FactOrFiction thingy up or restore the page or something.--'''[[User:Rotaretilbo|Rot]]''' 1305 9.12.06 | ||
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Ascendant Jusitce is not 2 kilometers ffor it is actualy 3. Second, like I said in my article assualt carriers/ flagships if you look at an assault carrier from lateral side view you will notice 3 flat bublous sections. The first is that weird hook shaped nose, the second contains the pinch fusion reactor, and the third conatins the engines. Plus, whoever wrote that the assault carrier was flat, I just wanted to tell you that in halo first strike it mentioned that the ascendant justice's bublous section were flaat on page 45 it says "relativiley flat from top to bottom. -- [[User:Halo3]] 00:35, 10 December 2006 | Ascendant Jusitce is not 2 kilometers ffor it is actualy 3. Second, like I said in my article assualt carriers/ flagships if you look at an assault carrier from lateral side view you will notice 3 flat bublous sections. The first is that weird hook shaped nose, the second contains the pinch fusion reactor, and the third conatins the engines. Plus, whoever wrote that the assault carrier was flat, I just wanted to tell you that in halo first strike it mentioned that the ascendant justice's bublous section were flaat on page 45 it says "relativiley flat from top to bottom. -- [[User:Halo3]] 00:35, 10 December 2006 | ||
:Check this out: http:// | :Check this out: http://halopedian.com/Real_Sizes_in_the_Halo_Universe --'''[[User:Rotaretilbo|Rot]]''' 2033 9.12.06 | ||
== Ascendant Justice a carrier? == | == Ascendant Justice a carrier? == | ||
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What page in Halo First Strike does it refer the flagship ,ascendant justice, to be a carrier. -- [[User:Halo3]] 21:22, 11 December 2006 | What page in Halo First Strike does it refer the flagship ,ascendant justice, to be a carrier. -- [[User:Halo3]] 21:22, 11 December 2006 | ||
:I don't know if it blatently refers to the ''Ascendant Justice as a carrier, but it makes vague implications to it. I am far too lazy to reread [[Halo: First Strike]] in search of a page number.--[[User:Rotaretilbo|Rotaretilbo]] 02:26, 12 December 2006 (UTC) | :I don't know if it blatently refers to the ''Ascendant Justice as a carrier, but it makes vague implications to it. I am far too lazy to reread [[Halo: First Strike]] in search of a page number.--[[User:Rotaretilbo|Rotaretilbo]] 02:26, 12 December 2006 (UTC) | ||
:Well in the book it says it was the flag ship so ya never know [[User talk:SPARTAN-225|SPARTAN-225]] 19:26, 9 July 2011 (EDT) | |||
== Don't Trust HBO! == | == Don't Trust HBO! == | ||
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Cheers, | Cheers, | ||
<tt> -49 Proximal Secant ['''[[User:RelentlessRecusant|<font color="red">Relentless</font>]]''[[User talk:RelentlessRecusant|<font color="blue">Recusant</font>]]'' | <tt> -49 Proximal Secant ['''[[User:RelentlessRecusant|<font color="red">Relentless</font>]]''[[User talk:RelentlessRecusant|<font color="blue">Recusant</font>]]''''']</tt> 23:11, 12 December 2006 (UTC) | ||
No offence, but as it says in many articles, a flagship can be any type of ship that heads the fleet, usually the larger, more powerful ones though. An assault carrier is closer to 5400 meters than 3000 meters. Also, as previously mentioned, the Ascendant Justice could have been a carrier. They may both be similar in appearance, but either way, it was powerful enough to be used as a flagship. [[user:Honor Guard Reborn]] | No offence, but as it says in many articles, a flagship can be any type of ship that heads the fleet, usually the larger, more powerful ones though. An assault carrier is closer to 5400 meters than 3000 meters. Also, as previously mentioned, the Ascendant Justice could have been a carrier. They may both be similar in appearance, but either way, it was powerful enough to be used as a flagship. [[user:Honor Guard Reborn]] | ||
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As per the Board message I sent. [[User:Delta-269|<font color="Olive">SPARTAN-G156</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:Delta-269|<font color="Red">COM Channel</font>]]</sup> <sub>[[Special:Contributions/Delta-269|<font color="MidnightBlue">Past Battles</font>]]</sub> <sup>[[ | As per the Board message I sent. [[User:Delta-269|<font color="Olive">SPARTAN-G156</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:Delta-269|<font color="Red">COM Channel</font>]]</sup> <sub>[[Special:Contributions/Delta-269|<font color="MidnightBlue">Past Battles</font>]]</sub> <sup>[[halofanon:SPARTAN-G156|<font color="Black">My History</font>]]</sup> 19:50, 22 August 2008 (UTC) | ||
I removed a small bit out of the trivia on this page from this bullet point " *In ''Halo 2'', Regret's carrier has visible structures on the surface above the engines. However, in ''Halo 3'' and ''Halo 3: ODST'', these structures are not visible, but are rather obscured or replaced by what seems to be a second hangar bay. " due to the fact that regrets assault carrier is not seen in halo 3 but is seen in halo 3: odst [[User:SPARTAN-225|SPARTAN-225]] 14:03 5th may 2011 (UTC) | |||
==Relation between types of Carrier== | ==Relation between types of Carrier== | ||
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:I'm not exactly sure about the internal layout for an Assault Carrier, but I really doubt that the head was "bolted on". If it was, then it wouldn't have the consistency that it has - the Halo 2, Halo 3, Halo Wars graphic novel, etc versions all look identical, indicating its an actual warship class. -- <b>[[Halopedia:Administrators|<font color=blue>Administrator</font>]] [[User:Specops306|<font color=blue>Specops306</font>]] - ''[[User Talk:Specops306|<font color=purple>Qur'a 'Morhek</font>]]'' <sup>''[[ | :I'm not exactly sure about the internal layout for an Assault Carrier, but I really doubt that the head was "bolted on". If it was, then it wouldn't have the consistency that it has - the Halo 2, Halo 3, Halo Wars graphic novel, etc versions all look identical, indicating its an actual warship class. -- <b>[[Halopedia:Administrators|<font color=blue>Administrator</font>]] [[User:Specops306|<font color=blue>Specops306</font>]] - ''[[User Talk:Specops306|<font color=purple>Qur'a 'Morhek</font>]]'' <sup>''[[halofanon:Operation: HOT GATES|<u><font color=blue>Honour Light Your Way!</font></u>]]''</sup></b> 09:27, 6 April 2009 (UTC) | ||
::It's certainly possible, but it would be poor design as making a part separate always make it easier to break apart. Poor designs don't survive battles. And Assault Carriers certainly did. [[User:The 888th Avatar|<span style="color:blue;">The 888th Avatar</span>]] [[User_talk:The 888th Avatar|<sup><span style="color:blue;">(Talk)</span></sup>]] 09:29, 6 April 2009 (UTC) | ::It's certainly possible, but it would be poor design as making a part separate always make it easier to break apart. Poor designs don't survive battles. And Assault Carriers certainly did. [[User:The 888th Avatar|<span style="color:blue;">The 888th Avatar</span>]] [[User_talk:The 888th Avatar|<sup><span style="color:blue;">(Talk)</span></sup>]] 09:29, 6 April 2009 (UTC) | ||
== | ==More Images== | ||
Shouldn't there be more? For xample the engine chamber at the end of cairo station. Anyone willing to help?[[User talk:Greatleader|Greatleader]] 00:54, 8 March 2009 (UTC) | Shouldn't there be more? For xample the engine chamber at the end of cairo station. Anyone willing to help?[[User talk:Greatleader|Greatleader]] 00:54, 8 March 2009 (UTC) | ||
Maybe there should be more, but I think the article is okay for now, unless others think otherwise, that the article does need more images. My chief concern for this right now is the introductory image, which I thought nowadays we usually go with the transparent renders normally present on other similar articles. I think the present intro image should removed from its present position and moved to the Gallery section of the article, and replace with this image, which is presently in the article's Gallery section, instead of where I think it should be put. I can do it, but I felt I should ask how others feel about this before I proceed. Does anyone agree or have any objections about this? --[[User talk:Xamikaze330|Xamikaze330]] 16:03, 31 October 2011 (EDT)Xamikaze330 | |||
:Problem is, the proposed image is from ''Halo 2''. Later games have introduced significant updates to the Assault Carrier design, such as a second pair of "wings" near the back. Note also that ''ODST'', which takes place during ''Halo 2'', also uses the updated Assault Carrier design. Personally, I like the current image. It gives a better sense of the ship's scale when it's placed against a background with other ships, and sometimes white background renders are a little hard on the eyes, since the image may not stand out against the white very well. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 17:12, 31 October 2011 (EDT) | |||
::Isn't that introductory image also from ''Halo 2''? And technically speaking, or should I say graphically speaking, the image I proposed looks no different from this image. And besides, I don't recall ''Halo 2'' having Assault Carriers in any prominent scene, except maybe save for ''Solemn Penance'', the Prophet of Regret's Assault Carrier flagship in New Mombasa. And then again there is ''Halo 3: ODST'', which has better graphics than ''Halo 2''. But in any case, if you think you can provide a better screenshot to be edited in Photoshop, then be my guest. I have no quarrel with you, or with anyone on Halopedia for that matter. Which of course goes without necessarily saying, or maybe it is. Regardless, my invitation stands. And if you and maybe a few others disagree, then the article shall stay the way it is. As I said, I was merely making a proposal, I wanted feedback, and I received feedback. Mission accomplished. At least people can still see the H2 Assault Carrier image. --[[User talk:Xamikaze330|Xamikaze330]] 19:10, 31 October 2011 (EDT)Xamikaze330 | |||
==Dimensions== | ==Dimensions== | ||
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: Probably. It's more that noone has got around to it yet, than anything.--[[User talk:Zervziel|Zervziel]] 23:09, January 27, 2010 (UTC) | : Probably. It's more that noone has got around to it yet, than anything.--[[User talk:Zervziel|Zervziel]] 23:09, January 27, 2010 (UTC) | ||
:: I just measured its width by using top wiev image on this page. It is 1878 meters, and height (from side-wiev image) is 653 meters. [[User talk:Picard578|Picard578]] 12:11, 13 March 2011 (EDT) | |||
==The Bridge?== | ==The Bridge?== | ||
thumb: | |||
this isnt the bridge its a room in High charity! [[User talk:Alertfiend|Alertfiend]] 12:21, February 13, 2010 (UTC) | this isnt the bridge its a room in High charity! [[User talk:Alertfiend|Alertfiend]] 12:21, February 13, 2010 (UTC) | ||
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: | : | ||
:It is possible that reactor's armor is inside ship - for comparision, most WW2 battleships (save for Bismarcks) had armoured 'citadel' that was more armoured than any other part of ship. Citadel, however, protected only ship's vitals - ammunition magazines, engine rooms and similar areas which, if hit, could critically damage/destroy ship. (That's why Bismarck proved to be more difficult to sink than any other new battleship - it was protected all over.) Althought, it seems that PoW was sunk by lucky torpedo hit at propeller which made shaft 'jump out' and tear holes throught ship's hull and several bulkheads it passed throught. What I was trying to tell, it could be two reasons - 1) gameplay or 2) Covenant ships relied on shields for protecting hull and had vitals protected by inner armor, much like Iowa's inside armor belt. [[User talk:Picard345|Picard345]] 16:29, July 7, 2010 (UTC) | :It is possible that reactor's armor is inside ship - for comparision, most WW2 battleships (save for Bismarcks) had armoured 'citadel' that was more armoured than any other part of ship. Citadel, however, protected only ship's vitals - ammunition magazines, engine rooms and similar areas which, if hit, could critically damage/destroy ship. (That's why Bismarck proved to be more difficult to sink than any other new battleship - it was protected all over.) Althought, it seems that PoW was sunk by lucky torpedo hit at propeller which made shaft 'jump out' and tear holes throught ship's hull and several bulkheads it passed throught. What I was trying to tell, it could be two reasons - 1) gameplay or 2) Covenant ships relied on shields for protecting hull and had vitals protected by inner armor, much like Iowa's inside armor belt. [[User talk:Picard345|Picard345]] 16:29, July 7, 2010 (UTC) | ||
== Hanger bay doors?? == | |||
The location confuses me, the pictures in the image section only confuse me more. I know where the hanger bay is (the lowerst section of the ship) but the actual entrance/exit eludes me. I think that there should be a better description, even a dedicated section to this. I'd do it myself, but like i said i dont know where it is (a conundrum) [[User: maccabeuse|Maccabeuse]] 05:32, 31 January 2012 (EST) | |||
:I think you can only see it (the hangar bay doors) using only [[Panoramic camera mode|Pan Cam]]. Your character/avatar cannot "physically" go there himself, so it is only viewable using Pan Cam in Theater mode. Does that answer your question? --[[User talk:Xamikaze330|Xamikaze330]] 17:56, 31 January 2012 (EST)Xamikaze330 | |||
Unfortunately no. I've used pancam on heretic and i couldn't find any hanger doors. i assumed it was between the two prongs on the front.... it's not. the only problem is '''space'''. it needs to be big enough to launch loyalist scarabs or and 2 unsc frigates (Forward unto dawn and Aegis fate) and so far i've seen no space big enough. [[User:maccabeuse|Maccabeuse]] 06:00, 31 January 2012 (EST) | |||
:Are you talking about finding the hangar bay in ''Halo 2'' or ''Halo 3''? I wouldn't know in ''Halo 2'', but in ''Halo 3'', you can almost see the hangar bay in ''Halo 3'''s cinematic cutscene, and you can see the second hangar bay here on what I assume is on top of the Assault Carrier or the Assault Carrier's engines as it says in the Trivia section, but it might be viewable using Pan Cam, the same way one might use it to find the [[Secret Room On The Ark|Secret Room on the Ark]]. Unless you're referring to the Assault Carrier in ''Halo 3: ODST'', then therein lies the problem. What else are you doing to try to view the supposed secondary hangar bay, and why do you want to know? Have you tried asking the uploader how he managed to get the screenshot? --[[User talk:Xamikaze330|Xamikaze330]] 18:21, 31 January 2012 (EST)Xamikaze330 | |||
i'm refering to the '''main''' hanger bay. i know exactly where the second one is (above the engines) it's the main one i can't find. and that link doenst tell me anything. i really have '''''no''''' idea where this thing is. and i wasnt using halo3 odst, i was using the halo 3 multiplayer disc that came with it ( if it makes a difference.) im having a hard time understanding, and im sure i'm not alone, the article doesnt exactly explain where this thing is (noones fault). i dont want to be a pain, but i want to understand where this thing is, and then adjust the article accordingly. --[[User: maccabeuse|Maccabeuse]] 08:21, January 31 2012 (EST) | |||
Seeing as no one could answer Maccabeus i'll ask again, I think that I get the jist of what he's saying, he's asking where the main hanger bay is, there are four doors on either side of it, but those don't look big enough for a scarab or a frigate. I have personally done the pan-cam glitch on heretic, and I can't find it either. I assumed that it was between the hook on the bow and the two prongs on the front of the main hull. I went there with pan cam and all there is there, are more prongs (I call them prongs because i don't know what else to call them.) at the end of the level, Tsavo Highway, the cutscene has a picture of an assault carrier, I will provide a link if this site has that picture. You can see the area between the two large prongs, in between the ship and the hook, and there is still no opening. There are multiple holes, or doors, or whatever you want to call them on the hull of the ship, but none of them look big enough for scarabs or frigates. | |||
== When was this in halo 4? == | |||
I do not recall seeing this ship in Halo 4 or Spartan Ops.{{Unsigned|67.204.247.138}} | |||
:One appears in the terminals being used as Jul 'Mdama's flagship.--{{User:Spartacus/Sig}} 00:45, 13 March 2013 (EDT) | |||
== CAS Assault Carrier being "ironically outmatched in arsenal" by the Infinity == | |||
Hi Everyone, you'll have to forgive me for as this is my first post on Halopedia, though I use this site quite a bit and post on quite a few forums. | |||
I disagree with the statement specifying the CAS-class Assault Carrier is "is no match for the human vessel (Infinity) because it is ironically outmatched in arsenal" as in my opinion there's is absolutely no evidence that this is correct. | |||
I'm aware that this statements comes straight from the Halo Visual guide however in both the games and books to date we have only seen the Infinity's guns fired in anger once, which in all honesty was lackluster to say the least. By comparison the Assault Carrier's primary armaments (energy projectors and plasma torpedo's) have been shown to consistently gut UNSC vessels in almost every engagement portrayed to date. This was even true during the recent issue of Escalation in which the Covenant energy projector or "glassing cannon" tore through Infinity's defenses and for all intents and purposes impaled the ship several times. Infinity's supposedly "superior" armaments proved completely useless unless I missed something. | |||
As a additional note, the Infinity's MAC cannons are line of sight weapons while the Assault Carrier's energy projectors can fire in any direction. Put simply to hit its target the Infinity's prow needs to be lined up both horizontally and vertically with the Assault Carrier before it can fire. The Assault Carrier on the other hand can target the Infinity instantly no matter either ships angle of approach to the other. Even if the Infinity does "outmatch" the CAS in terms of arsenal, to say that the CAS is no match for the Infinity is wholly incorrect as the CAS-class Assault Carrier will always be able to strike the Infinity first, and from what we've seen in Escalation a single Covenant energy projector is enough to cripple the Infinity. Assault Carrier's are equipped with several of these along with both plasma torpedo's and pulse lasers. | |||
I realize that I seem to be going against the official "cannon" however in my opinion the Essential Halo Visual guide is just that, a visual guide, not a technical specifications manual and as such it should not be treated as such. | |||
As a final note, I'd like to make the point that despite their being both a CAS-class Assault Carrier and an Infinity-class warship present at the Second battle of Requiem, never once did either ship attempt to engage each other in a direct engagement. With hindsight we know that Jul' Mdama's intention was never to destroy the Infinity but to take prisoner certain members of its crew in order to gain access to the Librarian. A direct engagement which could lead to the death of the potential prisoners on board the Infinity would not therefore have been in his best interests. On the other hand if the Infinity's command crew were so confident that their ship was superior to the Jul's flagship Assault Carrier, why did they not seek to engage and destroy it in a direct engagement where it's supposedly superior armament would have provided it with a decisive advantage. | |||
My opinion is that even the UNSC's command crew doubted the Infinity would be any match for a CAS-class Assault Carrier, which we know was superior to every class of warship the UNSC had in its arsenal only 6 years before. | |||
What does everyone else think? {{unsigned|86.168.150.80}} | |||
:I think we'd be happy to have you as a member of the site. That was well reasoned and methodical, and I can only agree with all of your points. The Infinity may have more heavy weapons, but the Assault Carrier's sheer firepower and ability to adjust aim independently of the hull orientation and guide plasma give it distinct advantages that the Infinity does not. Catalog makes it clear that Assault Carriers are powerful enough that tracking even one, the Shadow of Intent, is a priority, with three Prowlers attached to stalk it - and probably quietly blown out of space in retaliation. -- [[User:Morhek|<b><font color=indigo>Qura 'Morhek</font></b>]] [[halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>The Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>of Morheka</sup></font></i></u>]] 20:38, 7 July 2014 (EDT) | |||
::If you're referring to ''Infinity'''s "lackluster to say the least" weapons against the ''Mantle's Approach'', here's a to-scale comparison. ''Mantle's Approach'' is the big thing on the right. The ''Infinity'' is one of the small black splotches to the left of the tiny Forerunner Dreadnought in the red box. | |||
http://halo.bungie.org/misc/sloftus_scalecomparison/1280h.html?display=HighCharity | |||
What would have made ''Infinity'''s weapons more impressive when a mosquito swats an aircraft carrier? I don't think we've really seen what ''Infinity'' can do against the Covenant, except maybe when it didn't so much as flinch when ramming and pulverizing the Covenant's most heavily armored cruisers. Just havin' some fun. No hard feelings :) I guess I feel the text in the visual guide still stands. -[[User:ScaleMaster117|ScaleMaster117]] ([[User talk:ScaleMaster117|talk]]) 22:30, 7 July 2014 (EDT) | |||
- Thanks for your responses. | |||
Regardless of the Mantle’s Approach’s size the fact remains that the Infinity’s primary ship to ship weapon succeeded in creating hole just large enough for a single UNSC broadsword to fit through which itself if only 20.2 metres in diameter, and to all intents and purposes it didn’t even seem to slow the Mantle’s approach down. The Master Chief detonating a nuke inside the Mantle’s Approach nerve centre destroyed this ship, not the Infinity’s MAC cannons. | |||
You’ve raised a valid point regarding the scale of the Mantle’s Approach to the Infinity however in my opinion it’s irrelevant as even if the Mantle’s Approach was of equal scale to the Infinity, a 20 metre’s whole on a 5.4 kilometre long warship is still a scratch. (No offense intended) | |||
In retrospect the Infinity vs Mantle’s Approach example isn’t a fair comparison until we’ve seen an Assault Carrier firing on the Mantle’s Approach with own energy projectors. | |||
Even if we’re saying the Infinity does outgun an Assault Carrier, this doesn’t automatically mean the Assault Carrier is “no match” for the Infinity as battles aren’t decided by firepower alone. As Qura ‘Morhek has kindly pointed out the Infinity is still at a disadvantage in that it needs to manoeuvre itself into a position where its MAC cannons can target the Assault Carrier. The Assault Carrier is under no such limitations, its plasma torpedoes and energy projectors can strike at the Infinity from any direction. | |||
This was proved during the battle of Ambush at Oth Lodon in “Escalation”. The Infinity never even had a chance to maneuver itself into a firing position before the station’s glassing cannon opened fire, and like it or not a single Covenant energy projector crippled the Infinity. It’s supposedly superior arsenal was of no use what so ever and I fail to see how the outcome would be any different if it was engaged by an Assault Carrier with fully functional energy projectors and plasma torpedoes. That’s as much cannon as a single statement in a visual guide. | |||
As a final addition to this debate, I’d also like to point out that the Visual Guide was referencing Jul Mdama’s flagship when it said he was reluctant to it against the human vessel due to it being ironically outmatched in arsenal. We don’t know what state of repair the “Song of Retribution” was in, and considering Jul’s faction seems more akin to a militia then a state funded military it’s possible that his Assault Carrier’s energy projectors and plasma torpedo’s were offline, which would mean the Infinity’s outguns it. | |||
My opinion is that we should remove the statement “This changed at the close of the first Human-Covenant War; although they are similar in size compared to the UNSC Infinity, the CAS is no match for the human vessel because it is ironically outmatched in arsenal” as this is still unsubstantiated theory in my opinion. As I said before the Visual Guide was making reference to one particular Assault Carrier, not the classification or warship in general. If the above statement should go anywhere it should go on the “Song of Retribution” page. (http://www.halopedia.org/Song_of_Retribution) | |||
Again what’s everyone else’s thoughts?{{Unsigned|81.157.78.13}} | |||
:In the context of it referring to Jul's ship alone, I can see your reasoning. I'd be behind moving that reference from the assault carrier in general to the Song of Retribution's entry. The Visual Guide text certainly has wiggle room in that context. -[[User:ScaleMaster117|ScaleMaster117]] ([[User talk:ScaleMaster117|talk]]) 20:25, 8 July 2014 (EDT) | |||
- Thanks for your responses everyone. | |||
I've made the necessary adjustments to this page and relocated the Essential Visual Guide reference to the "Song of Retribution" page. Technically this page does not deny that the CAS is superior to the Infinity post 2553, though neither does it confirm it. | |||
Qura 'Morhek, thanks for your response. I wasn't aware of the recent history regarding the "Shadow of Intent" though its very interesting that its weapons and armour have been improved especially as the Covenant are suppose to be imitative. (Thought I never believed they were incapable of innovation) | |||
== Number of energy projectors == | |||
Looking at the video from 1:36 to the other assault on camber there are at least 9 different energy projectors on the CAS. | |||
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIWnxqf4O6Q | |||
1. Center under the bow | |||
2. Left of center of the bow | |||
3. Right of center on the bow | |||
4. On the right wing of the carrier closest to the hangar. | |||
5. On the right wing of the carrier farthest from the hangar | |||
6. On the left wing of the carrier closest to the hangar. | |||
7. On the left wing of the carrier farthest from the hangar | |||
8. On the dorsal fin that destroyed the marathon in Halo 2 | |||
9. Near the gravity lift. [[User:Councilor 'Rumilee|Councilor 'Rumilee]] ([[User talk:Councilor 'Rumilee|talk]]) 11:38, 29 July 2015 (EDT) | |||
:Are you sure most of those aren't [[pulse laser]]s? [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 14:08, 28 July 2015 (EDT) | |||
I don't think so, they do one-shot that Marathon-class cruiser. +Pulse Lasers seem to always be in batteries as seen on the CCS, rather than as individual turrets.[[User:Councilor 'Rumilee|Councilor 'Rumilee]] ([[User talk:Councilor 'Rumilee|talk]]) | |||
Only the top one-shots the Marathon, and it's confirmed a CAS has at least two projectors. But nine is overkill, considering they're basically the Covenant equivalent to the MAC gun. | |||