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Talk:Blooding Years: Difference between revisions
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==Assault on Vadam== | ==Assault on Vadam== | ||
Since it's implied that the war will continue, should the "assault on Vadam" have its own page as a battle? | Since it's implied that the war will continue, should the "assault on Vadam" have its own page as a battle? [[User:Spartansniper450/IRC Quotes|<span style="color:#000000">''Col.''</span>]] [[User:Spartansniper450|<span style="color:#00416A">Snipes</span>]][[User talk:Spartansniper450|<span style="color:gold">4</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Spartansniper450|<span style="color:silver">50</span>]] 15:26, 23 October 2012 (EDT) | ||
:I'd vote for it, but I'm not an admin. The Civil War started after the Brute rebellion and also raged in other states.--[[User talk:Thijsbos|Thijsbos]] 18:32, 23 October 2012 (EDT) | :I'd vote for it, but I'm not an admin. The Civil War started after the Brute rebellion and also raged in other states.--[[User talk:Thijsbos|Thijsbos]] 18:32, 23 October 2012 (EDT) | ||
:Doesn't seem necessary right now, given how little info we have on the rest of the conflict; a page on the battle at Vadam alone would mostly be a duplicate of the information in this article. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 01:48, 24 October 2012 (EDT) | :Doesn't seem necessary right now, given how little info we have on the rest of the conflict; a page on the battle at Vadam alone would mostly be a duplicate of the information in this article. --[[User:Jugus|<font color="MidnightBlue"><b>Jugus</b></font>]] <small>([[User talk:Jugus|<font color="Gray">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jugus|<font color="Gray">Contribs</font>]])</small> 01:48, 24 October 2012 (EDT) | ||
::Yeah I figured, just thought I'd ask. | ::Yeah I figured, just thought I'd ask. [[User:Spartansniper450/IRC Quotes|<span style="color:#000000">''Col.''</span>]] [[User:Spartansniper450|<span style="color:#00416A">Snipes</span>]][[User talk:Spartansniper450|<span style="color:gold">4</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Spartansniper450|<span style="color:silver">50</span>]] 02:11, 24 October 2012 (EDT) | ||
==Arbiter Loyalists== | ==Arbiter Loyalists== | ||
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:I agree as in addition to the Servants of the Abiding Truth and allied clans attacking the Swords of Sanghelios we also have clans taking the opportunity to attack other clans in conflicts that are for the most part unrelated to the SOS vs SOAT conflict.[[User:Sith Venator|<span style="color:green">Sith-venator Wavingstrider</span>]] [[File:Fett helmet.jpg|20px]] ([[User talk:Sith Venator|<span style="color:blue">Commlink</span>]]) 19:27, 31 December 2014 (EST) | :I agree as in addition to the Servants of the Abiding Truth and allied clans attacking the Swords of Sanghelios we also have clans taking the opportunity to attack other clans in conflicts that are for the most part unrelated to the SOS vs SOAT conflict.[[User:Sith Venator|<span style="color:green">Sith-venator Wavingstrider</span>]] [[File:Fett helmet.jpg|20px]] ([[User talk:Sith Venator|<span style="color:blue">Commlink</span>]]) 19:27, 31 December 2014 (EST) | ||
::I disagree. There have been plenty of multi-sided civil wars throughout history that have been referred to in the singular. The obvious example of a civil war, the American Civil War, is something of a rarity in terms of how clear-cut the sides were.--[[User:The All-knowing Sith'ari|The All-knowing Sith'ari]] ([[User talk:The All-knowing Sith'ari|talk]]) 17:52, 1 January 2015 (EST) | ::I disagree. There have been plenty of multi-sided civil wars throughout history that have been referred to in the singular. The obvious example of a civil war, the American Civil War, is something of a rarity in terms of how clear-cut the sides were.--[[User:The All-knowing Sith'ari|The All-knowing Sith'ari]] ([[User talk:The All-knowing Sith'ari|talk]]) 17:52, 1 January 2015 (EST) | ||
:::Even then, there were still people, especially out in the mid-west, who drew themselves along pro/anti-slavery partisan lines but were not affiliated or overseen by the "official" players in the war, the bushwackers and jayhawkers, guerilla border-raiders. -- [[User:Morhek|<b><font color=indigo>Qura 'Morhek</font></b>]] [[ | :::Even then, there were still people, especially out in the mid-west, who drew themselves along pro/anti-slavery partisan lines but were not affiliated or overseen by the "official" players in the war, the bushwackers and jayhawkers, guerilla border-raiders. -- [[User:Morhek|<b><font color=indigo>Qura 'Morhek</font></b>]] [[halofanon:user:Specops306|<u><i><font color=blue><sup>The Autocrat</sup></font></i></u>]] [[User talk:Specops306|<u><i><font color=purple><sup>of Morheka</sup></font></i></u>]] 20:54, 1 January 2015 (EST) | ||
::::I support the change. The plural implies there are several conflicts that haven't been shown thus far, but they do exist. I'm not entirely sure, since we'll probably have new conflicts related to Sanghelios in ''Halo 5''. But for now, better align with Waypoint. [[User:Imrane-117|Imrane-117]] ([[User talk:Imrane-117|talk]]) 05:45, 8 May 2015 (EDT) | ::::I support the change. The plural implies there are several conflicts that haven't been shown thus far, but they do exist. I'm not entirely sure, since we'll probably have new conflicts related to Sanghelios in ''Halo 5''. But for now, better align with Waypoint. [[User:Imrane-117|Imrane-117]] ([[User talk:Imrane-117|talk]]) 05:45, 8 May 2015 (EDT) | ||
:::::I don't think it should be changed. Although there are several wars going on it is only the one world that the wars are taking place on, therefore it would be civil war. -- [[User:Topal the Pilot|Topal the Pilot]] ([[User talk:Topal the Pilot|talk]]) 21:43, 25 June 2015 (EDT) | :::::I don't think it should be changed. Although there are several wars going on it is only the one world that the wars are taking place on, therefore it would be civil war. -- [[User:Topal the Pilot|Topal the Pilot]] ([[User talk:Topal the Pilot|talk]]) 21:43, 25 June 2015 (EDT) | ||
Either the article name needs to change or the content. The article implies that the the war is between the SoS and Neru Pe 'Odosima. There were multiple civil wars taking place on Sanghelios and several other colonies, concurrently and in Halo 5 we see the Arbiter dealing with Jul's supporters on Sanghelios, which are part of the Covenant and not the Neru Pe 'Odosima. --[[User:The Master Builder|The Master Builder]] ([[User talk:The Master Builder|talk]]) 17:34, 9 August 2015 (EDT) | Either the article name needs to change or the content. The article implies that the the war is between the SoS and Neru Pe 'Odosima. There were multiple civil wars taking place on Sanghelios and several other colonies, concurrently and in Halo 5 we see the Arbiter dealing with Jul's supporters on Sanghelios, which are part of the Covenant and not the Neru Pe 'Odosima. --[[User:The Master Builder|The Master Builder]] ([[User talk:The Master Builder|talk]]) 17:34, 9 August 2015 (EDT) | ||
== They are over == | |||
One of Jul's Covenant mentions how his group were the followers of the 'Abiding Truth'. Additionally Thel states that once Sunaion is taken the entire planet will be under his control, which makes it sound like the conflict ends with the Battle of Sunaion[[User:Councilor 'Rumilee|Councilor 'Rumilee]] ([[User talk:Councilor 'Rumilee|talk]]) 22:24, 18 November 2015 (EST) | |||
:Abiding truth could just mean they are following the Covenant's religious views, and winning the battle on the planet doesn't mean he won the war, remember some of the Sangheili wanted to regroup at Hesduros and the ones who did might still be fighting the Swords. [[User:Alertfiend|Alertfiend]] - [[Blue Team|Team Chief]] 03:08, 19 November 2015 (EST) | |||
:You can overhear some Swords in Enemy Lines muttering about defecting to [[Sali 'Nyon]], who may continue the civil war. [[User:Tuckerscreator|<span style="color:#6600cc;">'''''Tuckerscreator'''''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tuckerscreator|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 03:17, 19 November 2015 (EST) | |||
:But didn't Thel said Sanghelios would be free and the SoS would finally unify the planet before the Battle of Sunaion? They were defeated, so I assume the civil war is over, in the meantime (as long as 'Telcam return or other faction declares war at the SoS). </span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Draft227|<font color="#008000">stalk</font>]])</sup> 12:17, 47 December 2015 (EST) | |||
==Mdama== | |||
After Levu 'Mdama allied with Thel and the SoS I assume he is on the side during the Blooding Years, because it wouldn't make sense otherwise. We know that the SoS is ruled by Thel and a large council of Kaidons, yet Levu is one of those, who allied with them and therefore has his state on the side of the SoS. Why is it incorrect adding them?[ [User:Draft227|Draft227]] ([[User talk:Draft227|talk]]) 12:244, 22 December 2015 (EST) | |||
:The state of Mdama may be allied with the SoS, but we don't know if they actually helped out in the civil war. The state seems to be a smaller, agricultural state, not one that really has a surplus of soldiers to send elsewhere on the planet. --[[User:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">'''NightHammer'''</span>]]''<sup>[[User talk:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(talk)</span>]]</sup><sup>[[Special:Contributions/NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(contribs)</span>]]</sup>'' 11:57, 22 December 2015 (EST) | |||
::True, thanks for remembering me. I guess they would want to be away from this war mas much as possible since it would also end the Sangheili, which Levu wouldn't want. Though, Levu allying and supporting Thel (at least in the meantime) makes him a part of the SoS, right? After all the SoS is ruled by Kaidons and the first sight we saw of that was in Glasslands.<br>[[User:Draft227|Draft227]]<br>[[User talk:Draft227|Talk]] 15:25, December 22 (EST) | |||
:::Yeah, it's probably safe to say that Mdama allied with the SoS given that Levu pledged to support 'Vadam in ''Glasslands'' (though I wonder how they reacted when Jul 'Mdama led the primary Covenant faction against the SoS). --[[User:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">'''NightHammer'''</span>]]''<sup>[[User talk:NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(talk)</span>]]</sup><sup>[[Special:Contributions/NightHammer|<span style="color: #2B1AAA;">(contribs)</span>]]</sup>'' 12:30, 22 December 2015 (EST) | |||
== Can we have a citation for the Blooding Years being ongoing? == | |||
The Battle of Sunion seemed to end it.[[User:Editorguy|Editorguy]] ([[User talk:Editorguy|talk]]) 19:37, 16 August 2016 (EDT) | |||
No evidence says that it is over, just the Jul's faction is defeated. [[User:Alertfiend|Alertfiend]] - Warning, my comments may appear passive aggressive. <small>([[User talk:AlertFiend|Converse]]) </small> 20:47, 16 August 2016 (EDT) | |||
:Mdama is dead, Mdama's faction is entirely destroyed, Telcam is dead, Arbiter and his faction are doing well. That is plenty of evidence to suggest that the war could very well be over. | |||
:I have presented evidence suggesting, what evidence do you have to say that it's ongoing? The burden of proof is placed upon the claim with less/no evidence. If you have no evidence, my argument overpowers yours. | |||
:It's also important to keep in mind, I'm '''not''' even editing to '''remove''' that the war is ongoing, My edit is simply asking for citations to be placed where it says ongoing. It's expected that it should be cited, the fact that a citation can't even be found for it raises a red flag. That's where you should be looking to prove me wrong, with a citation, not with "because it is". | |||
:Pages like the Great Schism have citations for the claim that the conflict is ongoing. Blooding Years should see the same treatment. [[User:Editorguy|Editorguy]] ([[User talk:Editorguy|talk]]) 20:33, 22 November 2016 (EST) | |||
Dude, Dural 'Mdama is still around for all we know.[[Special:Contributions/173.90.163.62|173.90.163.62]] 21:01, 22 November 2016 (EST) | |||
:The argument isn't to change the page to say that the conflict isn't ongoing. It's simply to label "citation needed" that the conflict is ongoing. Great Schism page and other pages for example have citations for start and end dates, even if the outcome is ongoing. This page should see the same treatment. | |||
:If you want too add [Book Name/Game Name - page number - "Dural 'Mdama is still alive"] as a citation, even that would be better than AlertFiend's argument that it "doesn't need evidence because it doesn't need evidence".[[User:Editorguy|Editorguy]] ([[User talk:Editorguy|talk]]) 21:08, 22 November 2016 (EST) | |||
::We do not need a citation because it is not something to use citation on, the reason why the other pages have citations is because they have end dates and they use the citations to state when it has ended in canon, the Blooding Years has not ended and it would be pointless to add a citation because we do not have a definite point on the "ongoing" status of the conflict. The reason the Great Schism has a citation is because it has been narrowed down in the "future" of Halo that is not currently the present. Personally, if Jugus, Nighthammer, etc want to add it in I have no problem with it as long as they can explain why because to me it makes no sense but I trust their judgement, and please do not strawman. [[User:Alertfiend|Alertfiend]] - Warning, my comments may appear passive aggressive. <small>([[User talk:AlertFiend|Converse]]) </small> 07:27, 23 November 2016 (EST) | |||
=== Sub-section: Regarding the recent knowledge that Jul 'Mdama and Avu Med 'Telcam have been killed === | |||
With both opposing factions in shambles, evidence strongly suggests that the Swords of Sanghelios has emerged victorious as the two other opponents have lost. The burden of proof now lies with proving that the blooding years are still ongoing. Perhaps new stories and lore in the upcoming months will reveal more. [[User:Editorguy|Editorguy]] ([[User talk:Editorguy|talk]]) 22:00, 20 November 2016 (EST) | |||
:Just because the faction's leader is killed does not mean the said faction immediately ceases to fight and exist. There are plenty examples of this both in the ''Halo'' universe and in real life. Better to wait until we know for sure.--{{User:Spartacus/Sig}} 22:33, 20 November 2016 (EST) | |||
::I agree that we should wait wich is why I didn't remove that the conflict was ongoing. In the meantime perhaps we should add a "citation needed" besides the "ongoing" while we wait for information to confirm or deny it's status. [[User:Editorguy|Editorguy]] ([[User talk:Editorguy|talk]]) 21:22, 22 November 2016 (EST) | |||