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Talk:Sangheili/Archive 2: Difference between revisions
→Concerning the Sangheili's Respect for Humans
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The Brute showing up at the end of the Conversation was very small. If Bungie put it in to display Elite-Brute tensions then they could have just had the Sangheili talking about how much the Brutes suck. The segment where the Grunt mentions that a Brute killed an Elite without being punished is a more clear example of the schism. Also them discontinuing the coversation may simply be because it was a taboo subject and may have done the same if any other species showed up. When it comes to little story segments like that every part of it has meaning behind it so the fact that they were talking about humans being honorable shows that there's something going on with the Sangeili view on the war and humans. LeeUnit92 16:04, 22 September 2011 | The Brute showing up at the end of the Conversation was very small. If Bungie put it in to display Elite-Brute tensions then they could have just had the Sangheili talking about how much the Brutes suck. The segment where the Grunt mentions that a Brute killed an Elite without being punished is a more clear example of the schism. Also them discontinuing the coversation may simply be because it was a taboo subject and may have done the same if any other species showed up. When it comes to little story segments like that every part of it has meaning behind it so the fact that they were talking about humans being honorable shows that there's something going on with the Sangeili view on the war and humans. LeeUnit92 16:04, 22 September 2011 | ||
Well of course they do not hate Humans simply because they are Human. They hate Humans because they are supposedly trying to destroy the Halos and prohibit the Great Journey, thus they still hate Humans. No matter which way you slice it, they still hate Humanity. Them being under the wrong impression does not make their hatred an illusion, it simply makes it baseless. It is still there and they still feel it. About Thel: Firstly, even in 2552, Thel was saying some pretty nasty things about Humans. Even though his communique was to Truth in the Halo 2 Covenant game manual, he had the option to simply withhold on such slander but rather used terms like "Human Animal" and "worthy of neither respect nor fear", as well as "Humans remain beneath our contempt". This does not sound like one who holds any admiration at all and as always, if it is there, it is never shown. Only evidence to the contrary is shown in its place. Secondly, The Cole Protocol takes place in 2535, a full ten years after the war began and after dozens of Human colonies had been glassed, after all the battles that happened at these places. Yet, this is still not enough apparently. The evidence was in his face yet he turned it away, and appeared to show no change towards Humanity even a year before the Schism as I pointed out above. Thirdly, Thel was stood before Johnson who had a Scarab in Thel's face, and the fate of the galaxy was also only mere minutes away from being decided. No time to think, just act. I really doubt that reservations about Humanity would be going through his head at this point, and the same would go for the Halo 3 alliance as well. These actions do not mean that Thel and the rest of the Sangheili at that point necessarily respected Humans, merely that he/they could prioritize and view the situation objectively for what was at stake. | |||
About the death being preferable to dishonor part. That is true, but who said that allying with Humanity would necessarily be dishonorable? They would view it as undignifying, but not dishonorable. They would be stupid to throw away a temporary alliance with an enemy and, thus along with it, all their own race's hopes, dreams and even existence rather than embracing it. Furthermore, the Sangheili have shown no issues with allying with former enemies to save themselves in the past, no matter the cost to their culture and honor values. It is the very reason why the Covenant exists. They bent the knee to the Prophets after all the bloodshed. After hundreds of millions of dead Sangheili and their homeworld besieged I am sure that they would have hated the Prophets, but in the end they still compromised. The alliance with Humanity was not done because they found out the truth about Humanity or the war, they did it because they lost 3/5ths of their fleet at Joyous Exultation, meaning that they were no longer capable of defeating both the Flood and the Covenant alone. Basically, they were using Humanity. | |||
As for Xytan, his reasons for sending Voro to Onyx were both strategic and '''dogmatic'''. He calls it a heresy for Humans to be anywhere near Forerunner technology. What else other than repugnance is he going to feel towards Humans when he says stuff like this? Before Onyx Voro viewed Humans as "galling" him and making "his blood boil", with their language seeming "offensive" to him - and these are internal thoughts. After the battle at Onyx, he chooses the time to gloat to Kurt about how he failed. Rather than say that he fought well, or that it was regrettable that they had to be enemies, he says something to the effect of, flatly, "You will die, and we will re-open the silver path". (Essentially, you failed and you will die knowing that you are a failure) As for Conversations, how much importance is it really? There is no indication that the Sangheili respect Humans in any way without it. It is, quite frankly, the only evidence for such a claim. Yet, it is obscure and very hard to find in most cases, and is again such weak evidence being a discussion between only two Sangheili. Could the writers not have thought of better ways to make it seem apparent that most Sangheili respect Humans? Should they not have this theme running through the mainstream novels quite strongly like, lets say, the Covenant imitation theme? Do the writers even remember its "implications"? Because we have seen no such thing like it since it was written 7 years ago. | |||
I don't see it. It is apparent that most fans want the Sangheili to like Humans; counting the hits but ignoring the rather enormous amount of misses. Fanfic.net is proof of this with all the post Halo 3 fanfics with Sangheili-Human alliances and such. If you are trying to prove something as true, and you also happen to want that thing to be true, then you should take extra care to have more evidence than is really necessary. Be absolutely sure to avoid affirming the consequent. It would be cool if it was true, but I had to stand back and say "''Wait, is this really true, or is this just what I want to see?''" -[[User talk:Anton1792|Anton1792]] 20:40, 21 September 2011 (EDT) | |||