Talk:MJOLNIR Powered Assault Armor/Mark V

Cole Protocol
"The design was later modified for the MJOLNIR Mark IV seen in Halo: The Cole Protocol."

- Description of reimagined Mark V image

What? The armour looks nothing like the one on the Cole Protocol cover. I don't know where this originated, but it isn't the first time i've deleted it from the gallery section. Either cite a reason why it should stay, or don't add it again. --  Administrator  Specops306  -   Qur'a 'Morhek   11:04, November 22, 2009 (UTC)

In the released cutscreen from Halo Reach Spartans are seen wearing mark V armor. VARGR 15:57, December 13, 2009 (UTC)

Actually, that's not exactly confirmed. You see the armor seen in the Halo Reach cutscene looks very much a mix between Cole Protocol armor (minus the vent position) and the Mk V in Halo CE. Check and recheck if you don't agree. I say we put speculation aside for a while before it's officially announced.--Nerfherder1428 02:46, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

I think its probable that the armor used in the halo reach trailer is mark V. All of the SPARTANs shown in the trailer have visible shield emitters, which means energy sheilds. As the Mark IV did not have shields, I think this is positive confirmation that they are wearing the Mark V (in addition to other things, such as armor structure, helmets, etc.) Spartan 501 06:07, December 17, 2009 (UTC)

And perhaps a bit of photo evidence:



Your analysis is flawed in a few areas. Those lights are not the emitters themselves, for those are never seen on any shielding system, be MJOLNIR Mk. V and VI armor, the Sangheili Combat Harness, Jiralhanae Power Armor, or the Kig-Yar Point Defense Gauntlets and Yanme'e shielding. The emitters are hidden within the armor or device in question, and the lights on at least some of the personal protection systems, notably the Jiralhanae Power Armor, are status lights, signifiers of the strength or weakness of the shield.

As for the Sangheili Combat armor and MJOLNIR, the shield itself shows its strength as it is struck by continuous fire, it brightens to the point that it collapses, or changes to a deeper red in the case of the Kig-Yar gauntlets.

As for the Mk. IV, it doesn't have any status known status lights that are visible to viewer, but may very well have them. It doesn't prove that they have shields; it just means that the design happens to have them.

By the way, the comparison between the Bungie-designed Mk. IV from the cover of Halo: The Cole Protocol and the near-final image of what is the Halo Wars Mk. IV is flawed; only the Bungie version is canon, while the other is merely a stylized artistic interpretation by then Ensemble Studios and the animation company Blur. Showing the Halo Wars version in any form is unnecessary; you only need to show the Bungie-designed one, for it is the true Mk. IV.

Still, a good try. Kudos to you, Spartan 501. --Exalted Obliteration 02:27, December 18, 2009 (UTC)

MK V Release Date
I don't understand why people are still maintaining that the Mk V Mjolnir Armour was issued in 2552 I think that this part of the article should be changed. Firstly, because in the Halo 3 armour permutations descriptions, the MK V is listed as being issued in 2542, secondly it doesn't make any sense that the MK V suit underwent field testing the day before REACH fell, was issued to the Spartan II's on this day and then the nest day in Castle Base we find out from Dr. Halsey that pieces of the MK 6 suit have been in storage waiting for testing for a week. I doesn't sit right with me that this highly advanced suit was only in operation for about 2-3 weeks before being outdated by the MK VI suits. It nmakes a lot more sense if the MK IV was issued in 2525, the MK V in 2542 and then the MK VI in 2552. As far as I am concerned, this piece of canon has been outdated. Its not the fist time. Look at Elite armour, brute armour, marine armour, different vehicles, different weapons. Its not that they were invented and only put in place when they are seen, its that bungie needed to add something to tweak an aspect of gameplay, and then the canon is tweaked to go along with it. After all, according to The Fall of Reach, humanity's first contact with Elites was in 2552. But we know from Cole Protocol, Halo Wars and possibly Halo Evolutions (I dont know for a fact, haven't read it yet) that elites have been in contact with humanity since the start of the war. It isn't inconsistant canon in this case, its simply that canon has been changed over time as the story has progressed. So if the canon for elites in TFOR has changed, I think that the Mjolnir Mk V canon in TFOR could be changed as well, to match up with the bungie confirmed date of 2542.Rimnek 015 16:56, January 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * We still maintain that the Mark V was issued in 2552 because this is a known Fact. Nothing, in any piece of canon has ever contradicted the fact that the Mark V was issued in 2552. And that will never be changed because there is nothing that even remotely hints that it wasn't. The quote in Halo 3 is actually telling you when Mark V went into production. And as for the whole testing and attacking thing, it does make sense that this stuff happened the day before Reach fell, Its called Not Knowing, who knew the Covenant would attack Reach the next day. Even the Master Chief assumed his home would not fall.


 * All the other points you make are simply your poor attempts at trying to change and screw up Halo canon. Durandal-217 19:26, January 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, all you know is a lie now. Mark V was issued in November of 2551. John-117 was given the armor much later because he was on duty at the time. --TDSpiral94 05:48, January 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Pluto is still a planet!外国 人 (7alk ) 05:51, January 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah, no, Bungie just announced that Pluto is actually a strawberry.--TDSpiral94 06:53, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

My apologies if my opinion came off as aggressive, I see how it could have been interpretedd that way. I have a tendency to sometimes talk that way in my writing. Back to the 'Known Fact' thing, I just checked the armour permutations for the Mk V helmet and the wording is '...originally issued in 2542...' It said nothing about 'production'. I was just wodnering how the 'scale of canon' works then, as far as I understood, canon from Bungie supercedes any other canon that it directly contradicts. I do concede the point about the MK VI being ready however, but I think you misinterpreted what I was getting at. The issue dates have no correlation to the covenant invasion, except to help mark timing. Personally I just find it odd that such a significant armour upgrade would take 27 years to occur, followed by another significant armour upgrade 2-3 weeks later. Moving away from the MK V issue date, how are my other observations attempts to 'screw up canon'? As far as I can tell, canon is being updated all of the time, with Marine uniforms from halo 2-halo 3, the introduction of the elites face to face against humans, as far as I can tell, two directly contradictory pieces of canon cannot exist together, one has to supercede the other. I regret that my aggressive writing in my original post has prompted your response to be formulated the way it was, but I can assure you it it was not intended to 'screw up canon' I'm simply a fan of the halo series like you, and I was putting forth a piece of information that I had noticed that nobody else had commented on except for in the trivia. Apologies, Rimnek 015 17:21, January 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * The reason why it took 27 years for the next update of the armor to be issued was because of the technology behind it, the energy shield system took all those years just to crack; and by the indications in Fall of Reach, Halsey herself was unsure if all the bugs in the system had been worked out. It would make since if they began production in 2542 because it means it took them 10 years to actually build the suit, the MJOLNIR is a very complex system the most complex system to date, it would fit that it takes a long time to build it. Having the suit actually being given out in 2542 wouldn't make sense with the established facts and technological development, meaning that technology takes years, even decades for it to reach a point where it can be put into everyday use. As for the Mark VI, while I dislike Halo: Bloodlines with a new found passion, the one thing out of that whole retarded story that I found made any sense, was how they are setting up the fiction behind the Mark VI. Which in essence they are saying, was developed in parallel to the Mark V by a different group, looking to improve upon the design and technology. It would explain how the suit just magically shows up just a month and a half after the fall of reach (it wasn't really a few weeks, more like a month and a half).


 * The other points you bring up like the difference between Marine armor in Halo 2 and Halo 3 has a very simple explanation: They're just variants. Even the Marine Armor in Combat Evolved is still canon, just because it hasn't shown up again doesn't mean its not canon anymore. The Elite thing is however is another debate in itself. Canon gets updated from time to time to take account of what is being done, sometimes its acceptable (Harvest's population going from 3 million to 300,000) and sometimes it isn't (Other SPARTAN-III's surviving their missions). I hope that you'll excuse the fact that I am defensive when it comes to Halo canon to ensure accuracy and consistency. If you were Frank O'Connor or even Joe Staten my reaction to your initial post would be no different. So my apologies as well. Durandal-217 20:38, January 22, 2010 (UTC)

Whats wrong with saying it's a rank 2 armor?
Whats wrong?!?!Thank you taking time to listen to my post! Vegerot 06:57, January 31, 2010 (UTC)


 * First of all, quit with the excessive friggin' punctuation usage. It's annoying. Secondly, it would be equivalent to a Class II combat skin - were you to add it, you should be using the correct terminology. However, it really does not add anything to the article. It stays out.


 * Oh, and I forgot to tell you. Re-adding it repeatedly when someone else has taken it out is edit warring. You do it again and you and the other offending user might catch a block.  Smoke Sound off! 07:01, January 31, 2010 (UTC)


 * Are you kidding?! It has to do with the article completely! It says what Class it is!


 * No, it says what class it WOULD be, or rather, what it is equivalent to. MJOLNIR armor doesn't have an actual classification in Forerunner terms.  Smoke Sound off! 15:12, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

OK! Then lets add that!(I would add it myself but you said I would be banned)!Thank you taking time to listen to my post! 15:34, January 31, 2010 (UTC)!

Mark V Updated/Redesigned?
Judging from what has been seen from Halo: Reach, shouldn't it be noted that the standard Mark V has been redesigned? Due to the advances in graphics and design, the helmet has been changed to look like a hybrid betweeen an ODST helmet, the Mark VI, all put into a shape that fits the Mark V.

The rest of the armor, as seen on Noble Team and especially Noble Six, no longer quite matches the Halo 1 depiction, so shouldn't that mean that the main image be what Noble Six wears?

The helmet resembles that of one of the older concepts for the Mark V in Halo 1, especially one that made Master Chief "look too mean", which was later adapted for the ODST armor.

Given Bungie's apparent redesign of the Mark V, doesn't that render not only the Mark V depiction in Halo 1, but the helmet permutation from Halo 3, as irrelevant, outdated, and no longer canon?

Its just a thought, but it seems to me to be a logical decision to make. If anyone can decide how armor is depicted and is automatically canon, that would be Bungie.

--Exalted Obliteration 00:58, February 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * It is still considered canon and would be treated as the Halo 3 era of the Mark V helmet and this also applies to Halo:CE's version. I really hate to say this, but never ever make such a quick judgment as to saying "newer canon overides old canon". Canon doesn't always work in such way (Sometimes, old canon overides newer canon because of consistency in series but is somewhat uncommon due to the lack of reasoning and evidences. It's like law; sometimes, old law is effective over new law.) and it is extremely flexible provided you are able to reason reasonably.
 * Anyway, the current problem in Halo: Reach is to determine which armour worn by the members of Noble Team is the original MJOLNIR Mark V. As of now, it appears all of the armours worn by them have been heavily modified to their preferences and are not consistent in design. I would assume Halo: Reach will introduce a similar "Collect 'Em All" feature from Halo 2/3 for multiplayer and if it does, players will probably start with the original Mark V without any attachment as they did in Halo 2/3. Thus, I would suggest hold off with the images until the actual game is released.-  5 əb'7 aŋk (7alk ) 01:14, February 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * You won't come to a conclusion on that point, because none of the suits they are wearing is the default Mark V. What you'll really have to figure out is what variant of the Mark V each character is wearing. The default MJOLNIR Mark V is still canon and even the design of Nobel Teams armor reflects that the Mark V is still the Mark V. Even in the conceptual stage of development the designs for some of the characters armor was dead on Mark V.


 * For example, look at the concept for Carter-259, you'll see the helmet is the standard Mark V, the concept art in the ViDoc shows the Spartans wearing the default Mark V. Also look at the early animations for cinematic scenes, you'll see that certain character helmets look a lot like the default Mark V helmet.


 * Finally, another point to take into consideration is that published material for Reach states: "Nobel Team doesn't have the technical advancements of the Master Chief, but they make up for it with team work and tenacity. Over the course of duty, SPARTAN-IIIs are known to scavenge the battlefield and augment and modify their armor." Simply put the S-IIIs have a lot more freedom to customize, or even personalized (Emile) their armor then the S-IIs have. Durandal-217 02:13, February 16, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah because think about it. In Halo: First Strike Dr. Halsey gave the Spartans upgrades to their armor which John didn't get. SO mabye these upgrades were issued to anybody wearing the armor. So the update in the HUD could be merely because of the new update.Thank you taking time to listen to my post! 21:25, February 17, 2010 (UTC)!!

Wouldn't it certainly be worth considering that the armour being so modular is consistent with all other depictions of the various other armours. In Halo Legends (I know I'm going to get teared apart for mentioning it) it shows a CQB and EVA variation of Mark IV and Halo 3 dsiplays many different variations and fully displays the modular capacity. Also Security armour is a variant upon Mark V so that already shows taht THIS armour as well has variations, etc.

Technology
Is the Mark 5 more advanced then the Elite(Sanghelli) Equivalent of the armor? I ask this because of all the abilities that it enhances and stuff. Also i editted that the Mark 5 can display Allies Shield and health status is that correct?
 * In a way, they are of similar technology but different; the MJOLNIR is the counterpart of the Sangheili Combat Harness. The MJOLNIR performances and functionality can be enhanced with attachments and equipments such as the ones we see in Halo Reach Multiplayer trailer but it all depends on the wearer and the combat environment/environment of the operation. The UNSC further improves the MJOLNIR by introducing armour variants which are specifically designed for certain combat roles (EVA for Aerospace/Aviation, CQB to enhance close combat, etc). The same is true with the Sangheili armour. So, they are of equal technology advancement; the difference is the mechanics of the armour. The MJOLNIR utilise a energy shield technology based off the Kig-Yar PDG and is considered far more inferior (to some extent) to the Sangheili shield technology. You can read more on Energy Shield article. Halo: Reach will further expand and elaborate what these attachments are and how they function.
 * Regarding squad interface on Allies Shield and Health Status; I would assume so, as the SPI armour has a similar interface which allows the wearer to review his/her squad's status and condition.-  5 əb'7 aŋk (7alk ) 21:06, March 3, 2010 (UTC)

Halo: Reach
Will the Classic Variant of the Mark V be available in Halo: Reach, I bet you get it when you beat the Campaign on Legendary (just a Guess). Still I hope it's in the Game, I think Mark V (B) Helmet is lame.--Justin Kane 00:07, May 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * It looks just like the standard >.< --  Fore  run  ner  15:06, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

I just uploaded a picture of the Halo Reach MK V.OniLink 02:46, 10 November 2010 (EST)

A.I. Housing
The article states that the reactive crystal layer that boosts the wearers physical attributes is the same layer that houses the A.I. This is not the case. The A.I is supported by a completely seperate layer as evidenced by the Encyclopedia on page 89. The two layers are in individual sections and indicate different elements of the suit on the diagram. As far as I can remember, The Fall of Reach describes John seeing a holographic representation of the Mk. V suit and notes the addition of the new layer. Don't quote me on that, I'll check that later. But even if that is not the case, the Encyclopedia's information should be enough proof that the two layers are in fact seperate from each other. Littlestag 14:44, August 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * You are mistaken, the section you are referring to on page 89 is essentially talking about the reactive liquid crystal layer. The same layer serves two different purposes.


 * The following is from the Xbox.com overview of the MJOLNIR Armor.


 * Sandwiched between the external armor and the internal padding is the most devastating weapon the suit carries: a layer of crystal. Woven by molecular tools into a superdense optical computer memory, this crystalline layer forms a network capable of supporting the kinds of artificial intelligence usually reserved for starships—a "piggyback" system. An A.I.'s personality and processing matrices can be carried by the armor and delivered to the onboard storage in a crystal data chip no larger than a personal currency chit.


 * And we know it amplifies strength Fall of Reach, Page 115: “Most importantly,” Dr. Halsey said, “the armor’s inner structure is composed of a new reactive metal liquid crystal. It is amorphous, yet fractally scales and amplifies force. In simplified terms, the armor doubles the wearer’s strength, and enhances the reaction speed of a normal human by a factor of five.” Durandal-217 16:38, August 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * "There is a new layer sandwiched between the reactive circuits and the inner biolayers of your armor"
 * -Fall of Reach, pg. 252.
 * The reactive layer that amplifies strength etc. was present in the Mark IV armour. The layer that holds the A.I. is noted here as being a new addition and it's location confirmed to be seperate from the reactive layer. The suit consists of "biolayers" first, A.I. Housing layer second, reactive layer third and then plating etc.
 * I understand your point and that there your source says otherwise, but does xbox.com not count as media canon and therefore secondary to book canon?Littlestag 17:52, August 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * "There is a new layer sandwiched between the reactive circuits and the inner biolayers of your armor"
 * -Fall of Reach, pg. 252.
 * The reactive layer that amplifies strength etc. was present in the Mark IV armour. The layer that holds the A.I. is noted here as being a new addition and it's location confirmed to be seperate from the reactive layer. The suit consists of "biolayers" first, A.I. Housing layer second, reactive layer third and then plating etc.
 * I understand your point and that there your source says otherwise, but does xbox.com not count as media canon and therefore secondary to book canon?Littlestag 17:52, August 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * I understand your point and that there your source says otherwise, but does xbox.com not count as media canon and therefore secondary to book canon?Littlestag 17:52, August 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * I understand your point and that there your source says otherwise, but does xbox.com not count as media canon and therefore secondary to book canon?Littlestag 17:52, August 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * The xbox.com article is as valid as the novels are, since it was put together by the team responsible for the Halo Story Bible on the Microsoft Franchise Development Group side (Eric Nylund, Eric Trautmann and Brannon Boren.) You can think of it as a layer within a layer, when you put that piece of the MJOLNIR undersuit on, it's just one layer, but if you were to open it up you find out its actually two layers of one undersuit, one layer contains the liquid crystal and on top of that is the crystalline that handles the A.I, but its still one layer; thus is why it is grouped under one section. The Mark IV contained just the reactive crystal layer, but the mark V and VI contain the that layer and the layer that supports the A.I. Durandal-217 00:00, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * The article isn't very clear. I'm suggesting that that section should be reworded. At the minute it reads as if the A.I. layer and the reactive "strength" layer are one and the same. Although the entire undersuit is one item it is comprised of different layers like a cake, as you know. I'm talking technologically here, there should be a distinction for the sake of clarity.
 * The article isn't very clear. I'm suggesting that that section should be reworded. At the minute it reads as if the A.I. layer and the reactive "strength" layer are one and the same. Although the entire undersuit is one item it is comprised of different layers like a cake, as you know. I'm talking technologically here, there should be a distinction for the sake of clarity.


 * Done. Durandal-217 21:26, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks.Littlestag 02:33, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

Updated Mark V picture.
There seems to be a picture of the new Mark V, updated and used in Halo: Reach, floating around the internet.

Mark V

Should this picture be added to the Mark V page?

Oowoon 05:02, August 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * I think that if at all possible once the game is out, that a Green/Halo 1 Style Master Chief done in Halo:Reach should be used as the pic. Ie. A halo Reach Spartan wearing all Mark V compnents (not variant compnents) just my thought.  I'm really glad that they brought back this helmet in Halo:Reach, I think it looks really badass. Cheers, Rimnek 015 21:39, September 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * Strong here. This is the most accurate version of the Mark V armour that we have and are going to have, in terms of canonicity and in pure aesthetics. --  Specops306    Autocrat     Qur'a 'Morhek   08:59, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

What technological Tier does the MK V belong to?
I personally think it belongs in either 2 or 3 because it is the humans most advanced piece of hardware and thus probably on par with the body armor of the Covenenant e.g. Sanghelli Combat Harness and Brute Power Armor, i'm pretty sure these armors are both Tier 2 so I want to know what the Mk V is.

What do you guys think it is?

REach Out 10:16, September 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'd say that the Mark V is Tier 2, but barely. The tiers are meant to represent the society as a whole - having a few very specialised, rare and expensive pieces of technology more advanced than that which is used overall does not make the UNSC a Tier 2 civilisation yet. We know 343 GS classed it as a Class Two combat skin, so it is on par with at least some Forerunner technology, no matter how basic. --  Specops306   Autocrat     Qur'a 'Morhek   09:03, September 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * I absolutely agree, i never said the UNSC were tier 2 but i thought that the humans should at least have 1 thing within the tier 2 tech level because it just dosen't seem fair. But i agree with you saying the UNSC as a whole is still Tier 3.
 * REach Out 12:43, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

Vanity
I recall that awhile back we were holding a discussion over replacing the current image for the Mark V here with an updated one from Halo:Reach, though it, as well as the little vote as well, seem to have been lost in move. Regardless, we now have this pic, which Subs submitted about a couple days ago, and it seems to be about right, as well as big and professional enough for the page to use. Even the components aren't correct, that doesn't change the fact that we were all agreeing to all update the image so let's get moving on this again, shall we? Tuckerscreator (stalk ) 20:10, 16 November 2010 (EST)
 * Well, I did use this as my primary reference when recreating the armour. If I remember correctly, the only problem with previous recreations is the knee-pads. This image should be sufficient to show that the Grenadier knee-pad would be the closest match.-  5 əb'7 aŋk (7alk ) 20:40, 16 November 2010 (EST)

Good find, Subtank. I also remember from that old debate that the default knee pads didn't quite match, namely because they did not change color with the rest of the armor. An oversight by Bungie, perhaps?

But if I'm not mistaken, this creates a new problem; if the standard MJOLNIR Mark V suits all had the Grenadier knee guards, than what is the nature of the default ones in 'Halo: Reach'? Are they designated as part of the Mark V[B] line, or are they a classified as being part of the standard Mark V suit?

Inspired by the image that you posted, I downloaded the Vanity program myself and created the Mark V, albeit keeping the default knee guards. Strangely, when I changed the primary colors to olive, the knee guards changed color with it, while the red spots stayed the same. It seems that when the program was made, the ability to change the default knee guards' color existed, in stark contrast to the actual game, which does not allow it.

(Note: I would post the image here, but since I am not familiar with the whole copyright situation and posting images, I have refrained from doing so, just to be safe.) --Exalted Obliteration 21:09, 16 November 2010 (EST)


 * You can post images as long as they are not for commercial purpose; this is the general rule. Don't worry about it. :)
 * The program had some special modifications, thus why the appearance differs to some extent from the game. :P
 * As for the knee-pad issue; I didn't say anything about the Grenadier knee-pad being part of the default/standard MJOLNIR Mk V; I simply said it is indeed the closest match. The default/standard knee-pad would have similar appearance to the Grenadier knee-pad but also would differ in terms of purpose. Think of it as having biological twins; they are identical in appearance but not behaviour-wise... not the perfect analogy... and let's not talk about twins. :P - <font face="Century Gothic"> <font color="#FF4F00">5 əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7 aŋk (<font color="#FF4F00">7alk ) 21:17, 16 November 2010 (EST)
 * Ah, totally forgot to add this in; as I play around with the Vanity program, I discover that the default knee-pad remains classified/has no title. This knee-pad could be, as Exalted Obliteration pointed out, as being part of the Mark V[B]. :) - <font face="Century Gothic"> <font color="#FF4F00">5 əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7 aŋk (<font color="#FF4F00">7alk ) 21:30, 16 November 2010 (EST)


 * Slightly off topic for a moment, but does anyone know how many megabytes/gigabytes Vanity is? My broadband plan has a limit, and I just went down to dialup again anyway, so I don't want to start something I can't finish. --  Specops306   Autocrat     Qur'a 'Morhek   22:22, 16 November 2010 (EST)


 * ~130 MB. - <font face="Century Gothic"> <font color="#FF4F00">5 əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7 aŋk (<font color="#FF4F00">7alk ) 22:26, 16 November 2010 (EST)


 * Regarding the knee guards, it could always be an update. John-117 has always been depicted wearing default MJOLNIR armor, and I doubt Bungie would pay much attention to something as small as knee guards. There already seems to be some visual update, for example, the Mark V helmet is a lot thinner and boxier than it used to be in its earlier depictions, its breathing ports stick out more, it seems to lack the two "prongs" that previously covered the visor's brow (see here versus here), and the visor's surface also lacks any sort of markings like those found on the Halo 3 Mark V. Since John's Combat Evolved armor has always been accepted as wearing the default, it seems likely the knee guard issue just a minor visual update. But it's hardly a major problem if anything checks out just fine. Tuckerscreator (<font color="#008000">stalk ) 00:31, 17 November 2010 (EST)


 * The prongs are still there, they're just joined together in the middle with more black area. Also, since the knee guards don't really look at all like the ones we've seen as standard before, and since nothing is named Mark V, we should go with whatever looks the closest, which seems to be Grenadier. Oh and was it ever confirmed that John wears completely default armour? I know it makes sense and it's common sense to say he does, I'm not even saying he doesn't, I'm just curious if that's been confirmed or not. If it hasn't he could have been wearing Grenadier knee guards for all we know, as you could never customize them before, and therefore, they never had names. Not saying that's the case, just putting it out there. Alex T Snow 02:58, 17 November 2010 (EST)


 * Since we don't know if all of the armor components worn by John are default (he could easily be wearing Grenadier knee guards), I'd prefer we used the Reach default knees in the reconstruction. The current reconstruction is an accurate replication of John's armor, but not necessarily the default Mark V. The default knee guards aren't given a designation (other than "default") in the game, but as of now, I think they're the closest thing we have to default Mark V knees. --<font color="MidnightBlue">Jugus (<font color="Gray">Talk  | <font color="Gray">Contribs ) 07:23, 17 November 2010 (EST)


 * I agree Jugus, for recreations we should go default for Mark V and Grenadier for John. Any arguments? Alex T Snow 02:40, 18 November 2010 (EST)

Mmmph
So how 'bout that updated picture? We all seemed to be pretty in support of it [http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:MJOLNIR_Powered_Assault_Armor/Mark_V#Updated_Mark_V_picture. here].

As a further note, regarding the knee guards I found this quote by Exalted Obliteration (as usual!) which I think seems to explain the issue pretty well.

"Perhaps the user who posted the image thought that the default knee guards don't resemble the Halo 1 character model enough, and felt that using the Grenadier knee guards would look better. I also believe that leaving the default knee guards... would make the model complete... A person must keep in mind that when it comes to visually updating/revising the appearance of something in the Halo universe, it is always subject to a significant amount of creator-employed alteration and even redoing, and that version supersedes the original, aesthetically and graphically primitive iteration..."

- -

"Just because it looks superficially similar does not make it the same. There is no evidence whatsoever from the book FoR stating that the SPARTAN-IIs' employed variant components to their newly-issued Mark V armor."

- -

"The Mark V body in Halo: Reach is simply the armor being visually updated and revised/finalized for the Halo story, which therefore renders the specific appearance and form of the Halo 1 Mark V depiction as outdated and irrelevant. Many features were abandoned from that, including the seemingly fully-armored boots, the flat stomach plate, the ammo belt, and even the structure and shape of the backpack itself."

- -

"On a side note, the graphical and aesthetic updating and revisions done by Bungie have been completely subject to the unpredictable whims of their artists and designers, regardless of how different the retconned versions are from their predecessors."

- Exalted Obliteration 01:36, October 14, 2010 (UTC)

The quote had to be edited a little to just keep what was relevant(original can be viewed back at the link), but I think it explains the issue just the same: the default knee guards are indeed the canon MJOLNIR default, and merely represent a visual update in the depiction of the Mark V. Therefore, I think it should be pretty clear what our course of action should be. Tuckerscreator (<font color="#008000">stalk ) 01:39, 2 December 2010 (EST)


 * How do we even know that the armor that Six wears is Mark V with V[B] helmet or entirely V[B]. If it is entirely V[B] then that pic would be inaccurate or would need a little note like: "Mark V helmet and shoulders with V[B] body recreated in Reach"--1221751884 I-animated-this-for-you.gif<font color="Green">Ender the Xenocide 1221751884 I-animated-this-for-you.gif 01:53, 2 December 2010 (EST)


 * In Halsey's journal (August 12, 2552), there's a picture of John-117 wearing an armor visually identical to the one worn by Six and the rest of Noble Team. I doubt he'd be wearing Mk V[B]; it was issued only to SPECWAR Group 3. Even if the armor set worn by Six is Mark V [B], I think it's safe to say it's basically identical to the default Mark V. --<font color="MidnightBlue">Jugus (<font color="Gray">Talk  | <font color="Gray">Contribs ) 08:19, 2 December 2010 (EST)

Bungie's intent with the armor permutations is that it IS the set depicted, not just all Mark[B] with a few fancy coverings that make it look identical to other armor. If that were true, that would mean that every Elite whose picture was taken in multiplayer is not an Elite, but a Spartan in an Elite body that is really Mark VI, or that everything single Halo 3 armor permutation is just a base Mark VI that just happens to look different, meaning all those articles are inaccurate. By changing the model, it is literally BECOMING that armor set, and that's been Bungie's intent all along.

Anyway, the Mark V's distinct feature has always been its pointed chest. I doubt that there was an further need then to see it different, particularly as with Jugus's example when it matches description. Tuckerscreator (<font color="#008000">stalk ) 10:14, 2 December 2010 (EST)


 * So V[B] is just a helmet variant?--1221751884 I-animated-this-for-you.gif<font color="Green">Ender the Xenocide 1221751884 I-animated-this-for-you.gif 11:19, 2 December 2010 (EST)

Pretty much. The rest of the armor may be manufactured with it, but structurally they are the same. Tuckerscreator (<font color="#008000">stalk ) 13:40, 2 December 2010 (EST)


 * Understood... just dont use the grenadier knees, but default instead--1221751884 I-animated-this-for-you.gif<font color="Green">Ender the Xenocide 1221751884 I-animated-this-for-you.gif 13:43, 2 December 2010 (EST)


 * Can we get a version of that pic without those diagram lines? like a cutout of the armor only? you know what ill see what i can do--1221751884 I-animated-this-for-you.gif<font color="Green">Ender the Xenocide 1221751884 I-animated-this-for-you.gif 14:17, 2 December 2010 (EST)


 * wow that was fast--1221751884 I-animated-this-for-you.gif<font color="Green">Ender the Xenocide 1221751884 I-animated-this-for-you.gif 14:50, 2 December 2010 (EST)