Talk:Halo 4/Archive 2

Untitled
The media embargo has been lifted. --Halo face 09:31, 5 March 2012 (EST)

Note to all editors
Remember to follow the Citation tag at the top of the page when adding new information.--


 * Also note that this article and anything related to it will be under strict supervision from the Patrollers and Administration team. Try to avoid edit-warring; failing that, protection will be implemented and users might get blocked.— subtank  11:47, 5 March 2012 (EST)

Mecha from the recent trailer
Is that really a Cyclops, as it's stated in the article now? It seems to be much bigger then the one from Halo Wars, and it could be a very different project. PatrickRus 11:03, 5 March 2012 (EST)

Were was it confirmed this was a Cyclopes any way? Jac0bBau3r1995 14:22, 5 March 2012 (EST)


 * A number of articles and videos, including this one. --Jugus (Talk  | Contribs ) 14:27, 5 March 2012 (EST)

Next gen. Xbox
The first sentence in Gamplay and design mentions that the last 2 installments in the reclaimer trilogy will be on the next generation console. I visited the source and it didn't mention that. Should that be deleted or was it confirmed somewhere else?


 * Thanks for pointing it out, I've removed it. If the information provided is unreferenced or the reference doesn't say anything of the kind, then it needs to be removed until someone can provide one. --  Specops306   Autocrat     Qur'a 'Morhek   06:33, 6 March 2012 (EST)

MA5
There's now in game evidence for the MA5, not that I thought they'd remove the AR. First is the game mode seen in the trailer is "BR Slayer", meaning the BR is not the starting weapon. More importantly, the ammo counter on the HUD shows four bullets on the top row when the BR is full, meaning one full bar is 32 rounds. Perfect for the standard weapon. :) Also, the H4 BR's stock looks like the DMR, the pistol grip and bottom of the front end looks like the H3 BR, and the carry handle and rest of the top doesn't look very close to anything (other than being a large FAMAS style carry handle again) EDIT: Actually, in first person it reminds me a lot of Crysis's SCAR. Alex T Snow 02:10, 6 March 2012 (EST)

I thought it was already confirmed seeing as the figure had an MA5 rifleJac0bBau3r1995 08:44, 6 March 2012 (EST)


 * True, but I was just pointing out some in-game stuff. Alex T Snow 14:21, 6 March 2012 (EST)
 * Wouldn't BR Slayer mean Battle Rifle Slayer, and why would it not be the starting weapon if that is what the name of the game is?--

I think he ment that if there's BR slayer then that would be a speciel type of slayer therefore normal slayer would have AR as starter. Jac0bBau3r1995 17:08, 6 March 2012 (EST)

More Screenshots
I have a quick question. I know we have several development screenshots posted under the article (others posted under "Making Halo 4: First Look" article) but should a seperate page be made for more screenshots (similar to the concept art)? This site has 84 screenshots available. Just a quick thought. Killamint 17:07, 7 March 2012 (EST)

Well on that sight it's like stop motion of the game play. There are 3 shots of the spartan 4 of at slightly different angles.
 * We have a page for the images.--

Covie, and assassinations are back and the Cyclopes is only scenery
Waypoint! http://halo.xbox.com/blogs/Headlines/post/2012/03/08/The-Halo-Bulletin-30712.aspx Jac0bBau3r1995 02:20, 8 March 2012 (EST)

Edit Conflict
per above, seriously check these close-up images of Master Chief holding the BR. you started the edit-war and have no legitimate reason to undo my edits. HA came  17:05, 8 March 2012 (EST)
 * "This article is about an upcoming game. Editors must cite sources for all contributions to this article. Edits that do not follow this standard will be reverted without notice. For more information, see the Citation policy."

- Template at the top of the page.
 * Follow the rules and it will stay.--
 * i've already provided the source. I don't know how to add it in since it appears weird in preview. since you started this stupid edit-war, you should add it in as you now know what the source is. learn to make proper edits. don't remove/undo legitimate edits. HA came  17:09, 8 March 2012 (EST)
 * I was removing them because you weren't following the rules. And seriously? Don't ever talk down to anyone.--


 * Since you are currently enforcing this policy on me, why not do the right thing and fix it for me? Being a "veteran" member, I thought that's what they should do... not simply undoing and just spout out "blah blah blah learn this policy". The citation policy page has nothing on how to add in a citation for images (don't know how to make it into a link.. it's showing a big image under the references section). And I will only talk down on people (not to the point of harassing them) if they do not have legitimate reason on undoing my edit. HA came  17:16, 8 March 2012 (EST)
 * Okay, gents, let's put an end to this. The citation that is needed can be seen within the black box in the photo on the right.--The All-knowing Sith&#39;ari 17:24, 8 March 2012 (EST)
 * @Hacame: I did have a good reason to revert your edit. It's called following the rules stated at the top of the page. Furthermore, I did not have time fix it as I had prior obligations in my own life that I had attend to. Did you see my first comment? I gave you a link to a page that would help you put a citation in the article. The tag says that edits that don't follow the policy will be reverted without notice. Edit: You started the edit war, just look at the page history. Also do you really expect me to help you when you send me a message saying "effing help me"?--


 * Not to be jumping in the middle of this "war" but I find it inappropriate to be using anyone's username in a title for discussion especially for this reason. It's almost as if Spartacus is being put on blast. I recommend the title be changed to "Edit Conflict", or something of that nature. Just my suggestion. I may change the title later today if no one else does. If you find that to be problematic or unnecessary let me know. I feel it should be changed.--Killamint 12:54, 9 March 2012 (EST)
 * Yeah I agree. I changed it. This edit war is over now, by the way.--
 * Kool. The situation goes back to what subtank said at the top. Whatever the case lets move on. --Killamint 14:54, 9 March 2012 (EST)

Year
Since it was stated that the games takes place 5 years after the end of Halo 3 it would be approximately 2558 (2553 + 5 = 2558). So with that being said should the actual year of the game be added to the article somewhere and also added to the Timeline? Or would it be best to wait till 343 states it's 2558? --Killamint 10:07, 10 March 2012 (EST)
 * Wait until 343i says so.--

Actually 343i stated that Cortana is 7 years old in Halo 4. She was "born" in 2549. This places the game in Fall 2556-2557, shortly or sometime after Origins. Now according to Kiki Wolfkill, the game takes place 5 years after Halo 3. This places the game in 2557. http://www.gametrailers.com/video/interview-story-halo-4/727566 ADinosupremacist
 * Okay, it can can be 2557 if we consider December 11, 2552, the date of the last battle in Halo 3 and supposibly when MC entered the cryo tube. You add 5 years to that and you get December 11, 2557 (Which can still be 2558 since January is right around the coner). However, to me the true ending of Halo 3 was March 3, 2553, when the memorial service was held. Add 5 years to that and you get March 3, 2558. So I belive Halo 3 ended in 2553, not 2552 as your implying. --Killamint 16:50, 18 March 2012 (EDT)

Just because it's 5 years after the Chief went into cryo doesn't mean that it will take place 2556-2557. For all we know there could be some slipspace time travel stuff where the Chief was sent back into the past and Halo 4 takes place in 2553. ADinoSupremacist
 * In the newest Game Informer, it is stated that the game takes place four years, seven months, and ten days after the dawn was split in half on December 11, 2552. There for, the games prologue (Game informer stated that there will be a prologue for new and returning players to catch us up... it has been five years since we were in the chief's boots) will state it is July 21, 2557. this meaning that Cortana is anywhere from seven to nine years old. -Mixmasterchief 18:07, 8 April 2012 (CST)

Release Date
I went to GameStop today, and when I asked about preordering Halo 4, I was told that the release date was November 15, the 11th anniversary. I want to update the page, but wondered if anyone can confirm this first?--Sierra 109 21:53, 21 March 2012 (EDT)
 * *Points*.-- 22:22 21 March 2012 (EST)

That would just be Gamestop pulling a date out of their asses, just like they do with every game.ArchedThunder 15:30, 25 March 2012 (EDT)

Unnecessary Edits/ Edits Without Citations
Like what was said before please refrain from making unnecessary edits and edits without citations/references (proof as I call it) to this article. Also remember to use the preview function before saving the page. Yes I agree the, UNSC Infinity & Pelicans will probably/most likely be in the game based off the concept art but concept art does not constitute an appearance, just wait for 343 to state its in the game. We are anxious for more info on the game but seriously, have patience. Also understand the difference between "speculation" and "facts"- "As well when looking closely at the images of the Master Chief in halo 4 it is noteable that both of the master chief's index fingers have no armor from the second knuckle to the tip of the finger. This would fit 343's attempt at a more functional suit of a may hint at the return of the duel wielding ability into Halo 4's gameplay" is pure speculation, has no references, doesn't use proper grammer, and shouldn't be posted. Also if it doesn't need to be fixed, leave it alone. If you are not sure if something you want to post is okay to post, then ask here. Don't just post it, or else you might start an Edit War! Killamint 10:03, 29 March 2012 (EDT)
 * I'd like to say, even though the dual wielding comment is pure speculation (Spartans are obviously ambidextrous), the point about the finger armour being more functional is a good one, just some real life military gloves keep the trigger finger uncovered, it helps a lot. That said, I don't think it belongs on the Halo 4 page, but could be added to this armours page once we learn it's name. Alex T Snow 10:14, 29 March 2012 (EDT)
 * Any edits that are not cited will be reverted without notice. So please, cite your sources. If you do not know how to add references, please see the Citation policy.-- 13:10 29 March 2012 (EST)
 * Just to make note to reverters (those who revert edits without citation); if you know of a citation or know how to fix the edit, please do it in instead of reverting. Just because it's not cited doesn't mean the edit should be reverted; show some discretion.— subtank  13:54, 29 March 2012 (EDT)
 * Yeah I take responsibility for that last revert (Like I got a choice). Didn't realize what the user was trying to do until Spartan331 showed me. So I'll definitely take that into account next time. --Killamint 14:38, 29 March 2012 (EDT)

Concept art only
So far several things have already been associated with Halo 4 that are not listed on this page. For example, the UNSC Infinity and the Pelican are seen associated with Halo 4. The Infinity is from the Halo 4 panel and the Pelican has been seen several times throughout concept art. While this does not officially mean that they will be in the game (though I'm sure the Pelican will be) they should at the moment be listed on the appearances like this: They're already on the Halo 4 page in the gallery section, so why not in the appearances? ADinoSupremacist
 * UNSC Infinity
 * Pelican
 * The same reason as to why we don't include Rosenda-344 in Halo: Reach even though she's in several concept arts during the development Halo Reach. Appearances section should only be reserved for subject/objects/characters that appear in the finalised build and it should not cater for cut-content; doing so will clutter the list for things that did not appear in the finalised build. — subtank  14:49, 2 April 2012 (EDT)

Troop transport screenshot
Should this be an acceptable source? If concept art isn't considered as concrete proof (rightly so) then how dose a blurry image of a vehicle that could be a troop transport work for a source. Jac0bBau3r1995 01:00, 3 April 2012 (EDT)

Actully on closer inspection of the video, when you see the side profile, it seems to have a turrent, so is it cool with everyone if I remove that? Jac0bBau3r1995 01:11, 3 April 2012 (EDT)

You can see the words "Troop Transport" next to the hog. All other images in that particular seen are already confirmed Halo 4 material from that same video. ADinoSupremacist

At what time dose that image show up? The one I see has an obvious turrent on it. Jac0bBau3r1995 01:37, 3 April 2012 (EDT)

It's right before the "Halo 4 First Look" appears. You can see various Halo 4 images such as the BR, new armor, Spartan-IV, etc. ADinoSupremacist

Mark VI, Unnamed MJOLNIR variant and new unnamed weapons
I have a couple of suggestions for new articles. 343i has stated that the Chief gets new armor. So at the moment there should be a page about the new armor system. While I firmly believe it's the Mark VII, it should be named "Unnamed MJOLNIR system" or something like that. Also I have discovered two new weapons that are in the First Look trailer. Since they don't have names right now they should at least have articles on them. The "explosive pistol" already has an article. ADinoSupremacist


 * Frankie has stated that the fictional explanation for the "new" armor won't be as major as a switch of generation. That, along with information from the Halo 4 art director in a bulletin from a while ago suggests it's merely a redesign of the Mark VI, even if there's some kind of a canon explanation thrown in. Regardless, it's pointless to make a new article about it yet. We've done fine without one so far, so a few months' wait won't really matter. Besides, I don't see the point in more articles about "unnamed thing x", saying nothing more than "Not much is known about this other that it may or may not appear in Halo 4." --Jugus (Talk  | Contribs ) 01:44, 3 April 2012 (EDT)

I feel it would be a douchebag move on 343i's part to just say that the new armor is the Mark VI just redesigned. They've been very good with the canon and design so far, so why change it now? Of course it's possible Engineers mess around with his armor, I believe it's Mark VII. ADinoSupremacist


 * Okay, I hate to harp on about it, but it's like saying the Mark IV on the cover of The Cole Protocol and the Mark IV in Halo Wars cannot possibly be the same armour. VARIANTS. Who says we saw all the Mark VI variants in Halo 3 multiplayer? And then, as I've said, there's the fact that Cortana's there with a lot of free time suddenly on her hands and half a ship to cannibalise for spare parts. --  Specops306   Autocrat     Qur'a 'Morhek   07:31, 3 April 2012 (EDT)


 * I'd go with the Engineer theory. But then again, let's wait for more official explanations. — S331 Bubbleshieldhud.svg(COM • Mission Log • Profile) 07:37, 3 April 2012 (EDT)

We don't know enough about it now. Wait until we get definitive information before changing anything.  (or so it says in the sacred caves) Vegerot!'' 10:22, 3 April 2012 (EDT)!

But the Cole Protocol and Halo Wars Mark IV are variants of the Mark IV. Now I do have a theory on why they look different and it's based on information that's already been given out by 343i. ADinoSupremacist


 * You see? I'm already regretting this analogy. It was just meant to illustrate the fact that we don't know as much as we like to think about MJOLNIR, its development and variants, and that conclusively saying its Mark VI or VII is irrelevant until we get hard confirmation.--  Specops306   Autocrat     Qur'a 'Morhek   05:56, 4 April 2012 (EDT)


 * They look different because they are drawn differently by different artists of different studios without any close supervision or close support from one another. You can conjure any theory you want but until all of these different stylised armours from different media appear in one media, any theory is simply redundant. Of course, don't let my comment stop you... it's simply to point out that it's wholly pointless... but fan theories are fun.— subtank  06:06, 4 April 2012 (EDT)

Indeed, what Subtank says is true. However, that is only one of the real-world reason for all of these differing depictions. Another reason is that when those iterations were made and implemented, the time, context, etc. were different from how things are now. The Cole Protocol image was made by Bungie during the time frame of both Halo 3: ODST's and Reach's development cycles, and could very well have come out of some of the concept art for Reach, though that is course only speculation at best. The Halo Wars iteration, of course, was done by Blur Studios and Ensemble, drawing on the Mark VI image and some aspects of the Mark V for inspiration.

Given these kinds of facts, and that there was no effort on serious oversight and communication between these 3 parties at those time frames, it was unavoidable that there would be conflicting visuals to appear. But on the other hand, if there really had been such cooperation and oversight, would that really have worked out as one might have hoped? Would there really be any guarantee that we would be shown logical, reasonable additions to the canon? Would things really be as harmonious as some might hope, or might things have actually been worse?

Cross-company and artist cooperation never truly guarantees quality content; it only offers the possibility. All of those companies, even Bungie, can and are prone to poorly-chosen and implemented, even incompetent, decisions. Given that things have turned out the way they are now, there is no way of knowing if things would have been different had they been done with such a collaborative process. We can only wonder, conjecture, speculate, and debate.

In any event, back on to this topic, all of the facts have given me the impression of one possibility; John-117's "new" armor is a kind of upgraded, "hybrid" Mark VI armor, composed of components, software, and armor segments from multiple sources. Or in other words, his armor internally remains the same or similar to what it was before, but new pieces and components, maybe even related to the Mark VII, have been added to his armor to improve its performance in some areas. All previous generations of SPARTAN-used MJOLNIR have had upgrades, customizations, etc. of one sort or another, including ones similar to this.

In that 'Game Reactor' interview with Mr. O'Connor, he does emphasize the fact that there is an in-universe, genuine change in John's armor, meaning that its external appearance from its issuing in October 2552 to its current appearance is not mere artistic license at all. This also reinforces the fact that the Mark VI as we have known it for the past several years, particularly Halo 3, is how it is meant to look. That is its genuine structure and appearance when it is first issued, without any customizations, modifications, or upgrades.

Now that years have passed since then, and the situation and context have changed, there is a true, in-universe need for the armor to be upgraded, particularly to the form it has now. For how the suit is improved, we can only wonder and/or wait for the facts to become known. But whatever the case, it now seems very unlikely, in my opinion, that John is wearing true Mark VII armor. On the other hand, from the aesthetic and gameplay point of view, these differences will be prominently displayed in how he moves in the play spaces, from impressions of weight, sound, etc. to better convey the simulation-based experience.--Exalted Obliteration 17:36, 4 April 2012 (EDT)

Just my two cents: If the game opens up with the chief immediately after getting out of cryo, like we were led to believe in the reveal trailer, then the change to the armor will happen in-game. There was no way for cortana to modify it while he was in cryo. Speaking plot-wise, it would seem more convenient for him to get a completely new suit of armor later in the game, but that is pure speculation. 68.104.165.221 18:23, 4 April 2012 (EDT)

Arright, this has bothered me since the people started freaking out over the armor those many months ago: what I can gather he meant by "less canonical explanation" is this: when the Cheif wakes up, he's wearing the Mk. VI, as could be expected. Aftermthe crash, Cortana shows him the Mk. VII, located on the Forward Unto Dawn, and basically says "happy birthday, John, here ya go!" That way, we know where he got it in general, but we don't have any "just came in from Songsam this morning" like in Halo 2. Soooo, yeah. That's what I think will happen. Infernal-Blaze 09:49, 5 April 2012 (EDT)


 * Problem is, why would there be a Mark VII on the Dawn? the Mark VII was given out in January 2553. If there is a Mark VII during the events of Halo 3, why didn't anyone offer it to the Chief? The Spartan-IVs seen in First Look are probably wearing the Mark VII, which is completely different from the one the Chief was wearing. The one Chief is wearing resembles the one in Halo 3. It's not Mark VII. — S331 Bubbleshieldhud.svg(COM • Mission Log • Profile) 10:29, 5 April 2012 (EDT)
 * If you look Halo 4 Multiplayer (2).jpg, You'll see that the armors share a chestplate, undersuit details and the strange pseudo-codpeice that Cheif's new armor has. All I'm saying is that it's not so cut-and-dry that Cheif's wearing some kind of Mk VI.5. Infernal-Blaze 11:09, 5 April 2012 (EDT)
 * Good point. But still, why didn't anyone offer it to the Chief if it was on the Dawn? Also, "Image into Articles 101: Insert File name here to show image." :) — S331 Bubbleshieldhud.svg(COM • Mission Log • Profile) 11:25, 5 April 2012 (EDT)
 * Canonically, it was always there, but would have been impractical to give him mid-combat. Non-canonically, it would be a retcon: even the concept of a Mk VII was nonexistent when Halo 3 was made, so it couldn't have been offered then anyway. Infernal-Blaze 11:30, 5 April 2012 (EDT)

Might he get it from the Infinity?Weeping Angel 22:25, 5 April 2012 (EDT)

My theory is that he does get it form the Infinity. It's been confirmed over and over again that the UNSC is in Halo 4. Now the Spartan-IVs and the Chief do have different armor, but there are similarities such as the ab area/codpiece. I believe that the armor will be far more customizable than it is in previous Halo titles. Anyway there is a possible canonical reason as to why the Halo Wars and Cole Protocol Mark IV look different but I will discuss that on the Mark IV discussion page in a moment. 343i has already shown in Origins (which takes place shortly before Halo 4) that the Chief is still wearing Mark VI. Why would they change something that they have even shown? It would also confuse too many casual players as to why he looks different. I still believe that he will get the new armor from the UNSC Infinity. 343i has slowly been revealing the Mark VII to be real. First Halsey's Journal, then Glasslands. Also Frank has said Glasslands will have connections with Halo 4, the Mark VII may be one of them. If this Ancient Evil is worse than the Covenant, I'm sure he's going to need a new suit. ADinoSupremacist

At the very least the Infinity could give his suit some upgrades. this could also allow for some pretty cool customizationWeeping Angel 13:55, 6 April 2012 (EDT)

In light of multiple sources, including the current issue of Game Informer and the aforementioned Interview at Gamereactor, it seems pretty clear, in my opinion, why his armor is different. Close to the end of the 5-year time gap between the end of the war and start at the events near Requiem, Cortana has not only rewritten and upgraded the firmware, i.e. the suit's programming and overall software, but she has physically redesigned and refitted the Mark VI's external armor structure into this new, streamlined, and unique form. Given that she apparently did it while he was in cryosleep, it now remains to be seen how, and more importantly, why she redesigned and upgraded the armor.

The means of which how are pretty straightforward, at least in the context of the firmware; reprogamming and optimizing those aspects of the suit would be easy for her. Now for taking him out of cryo, restructuring his armor, and then putting him back without rescuscitating him may seem somewhat difficult, but is actually quite easy and believable. How, might you ask? Look no further than Joseph Staten's own book, Halo: Contact Harvest.

On page 60, cited by Halopedia itself, no less, it is both very possible and even downright routine for an AI to control how and when a person to awake from cryosleep, including keeping them dormant even when they are out of the pod. This can be accomplished by precisely controlling the temperature of the pod, and the ratios and types of the intravenous pharmaceuticals applied to the occupant. In John-117's case, it almost even easier, if downright trivial, since he is wearing MJOLNIR armor, which almost certainly has a connective function to the cryopod. That, to me, would easily explain how Cortana performed her work without truly waking him up.

The next step, of course, is where she got the armor pieces from and what machinery she used to fashion the streamlined, replacement parts. Given that a vessel like a Frigate would carry troop and vehicle complements for extended periods between combat zones, there is bound to be a considerable amount of machinery for repairing, refitting, and reconfiguring vehicles and other hardware onboard. In other words, there are likely at least a few machine shops, as it were, aboard the vessel.

Given that the FoD would have a SPARTAN-II, and the fact that the ship's existing complement would require robotic mechanisms, it is likely that Cortana used those resources to remove the original Mark VI armor pieces, and used others to create their replacements and refitted John before she returned him to his cryopod.

The biggest question, of course, is why did she determine that this course of action was necessary? Aside from the marauding rogue Covenant fleet and the eventual approach to Requiem, what else would cause such a dramatic venture on her part? Between her musings on the history of the past 100,000 years and these new events, what did she discover and/or come to understand? Did the Forerunner records she had access to and the intellectual conflict with the Gravemind contribute to her decisions?

Did any of these things give her information and foresight towards the existence of Requiem? What does she both know and understand now, and what is she hiding from John-117, even as she heads closer towards Rampancy and her seeming demise?--Exalted Obliteration 01:37, 11 April 2012 (EDT)


 * The only major problem with this theory is that John still retains the battle-damage/scar (one on his right chest) from the previous title. If Cortana had indeed upgraded his armour as you theorised, then that battle-damage/scar should've been fixed. A worthy attempt but as it is, I think canon cannot explain this. However, we could interpret from a development/production POV that this is how 343i views the Halo Universe (rather than how Bungie views the Halo Universe) from their perspective, that this is how the MJOLNIR Mk VI looks like in their perspective. In other words, retcon... but not really a problem since we've faced even major retcons before (best example being the designs of the Elites throughout the entire franchise, from the skinny-Brute-ish ones in Halo Wars and the chicken/Jackal-legs in Reach to the not-that-menacing-like-in-Halo2 in Halo 3 as a number of fans have criticised since) without much canon explanation. Time will tell. — subtank  07:23, 11 April 2012 (EDT)
 * Hmm, I looked at every picture I could find, and all of them seem to Have the final, in-game model for Cheif covering the scar-spot Sith the butt of his BR, so how would we even know if it's still there? Infernal-Blaze 23:16, 11 April 2012 (EDT)

Ah...well said, Subtank. Now that I think about it, many past interviews that relate to this topic have put a very strong emphasis on the artistic and out-of-fiction context of John-117 and his redesigned armor. That seems to have been a favorite topic of those who have been interviewed. From an artistic and presentation point of view, what you are saying is indeed correct. You are also correct in saying that there are still things that we do not know, and that time will tell.

I couldn't agree more. Good point about the scar though; one image from the Game Informer article does show that it is still there. With that in mind, the artistic license aspect of the design change is very much in play. However, it is still true that there has been a genuine, in-universe physical change with his armor alongside the firmware upgrade. Mr. O'Connor himself has stated this repeatedly during past interviews, even stating back in December that John had been removed from his cryotube and returned to it before the events of the game.

I think that it is possible to acknowledge this physical change if we put the facts in context; the aesthetic, audio, and gameplay presentation and functionality are of paramount importance, hence the in-game redesign of the player-controlled assets and the overall simulation space. However, these changes are not made only for that purpose, for they also have an in-universe reason as well. By repeatedly emphasizing that there is an actual physical change, it is clear that the pre-Halo 4 external structure of the Mark VI truly did exist as we have seen and known it for the last 4-5 years, so it is not a mere aesthetic change.

The chronological date of Cortana's introspective conversation with herself and a dormant John as seen in Halo: Legends' "Origins", which outside of its artistically-licensed, thematic sequences was visually and functionally canon-accurate would further illustrate this, as John's armor is precisely as it had been in Halo 3. It would seem that in the year since then, the upgrade and apparent overhaul were made.

By the way, thanks for the compliments on my speculations. I really appreciate it.--Exalted Obliteration 16:54, 11 April 2012 (EDT)


 * Topics like this are the reason I love this community :) Alex T Snow 19:38, 11 April 2012 (EDT)

3 new weapons discovered?
Pretty convincing. Though I think the weapon on the back might be the DMR. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4GMVD6yv5U  ADinoSupremacist

Elites confirmed along with a bunch of other things.
I put this info up on the article but looks like it was taken down due to scans not being allowed (though it wasn't a scan.) Anyway I'm sure the same doesn't apply for the Discussion. EDIT: Due to possible banning or something like that I went ahead and took down the "scans." All I can say is that the Elites look AMAZINGLY DEMONIC.........and aren't playable

Hope yall like them and let the rage begin. --ADinoSupremacist 21:01, 6 April 2012 (EDT)


 * Scanned images, while common and actually widely accepted in web communities, doesn't mean it's legal. So, thank you for removing it. :) — subtank  21:11, 6 April 2012 (EDT)

Well then I'll just have to say what's in the new GI. Basically there's a new weapon called the "Assault Carbine." The Covenant Carbine is returning along with the Energy Sword. A bunch of regular UNSC weapons are returning such as Sniper, Rocket Launcher, etc. The new DMR is revealed and it looks very much different yet similar to it's Reach counterpart. IT does have a very unique looking scope. --ADinoSupremacist 21:15, 6 April 2012 (EDT)


 * Are we allowed posting links to scans? If not, well, they're not hard to find anyway. After how ugly the DMR was in Reach, I actually quite like the looks in this game. Interestingly, it has the alternating triangle patterns on the rear of the body, like the BR55. Some MA5 pics too, looks just like the one the MacFarlane toys figure has. Alex T Snow 23:24, 6 April 2012 (EDT)

Unidentified variants fix
So with all the new unidentified variants, I suggest they all be placed in an order like this

--ADinoSupremacist 21:26, 6 April 2012 (EDT)
 * Unidentified Variants
 * Rocket Launcher
 * Assault Rifle
 * DMR
 * etc

That looks good. Weeping Angel 15:10, 7 April 2012 (EDT)

Co-Op characters revealed?
It just dawned on me that the Elites from the Game Informer issue on Halo 4 might be the two Elites from Halo 3's co-op. The Spec-Ops looking Elite has the same colored armor as the Spec-ops one from Halo 3, a color no other SO Elite wears. --ADinoSupremacist 04:19, 7 April 2012 (EDT)


 * That'd be pretty cool, as they have names and backstory. Alex T Snow 13:19, 7 April 2012 (EDT)

The Appearances section needs to be updated.
Unidentified Forerunner planet needs to be renamed "Requiem", Unggoy need to be added to the races and Type 51- Carbine to weapons. ArchedThunder 18:56, 7 April 2012 (EDT)
 * Type-51 already exists and Unggoy added. Please provide Game Informer source that confirms the name of the Forerunner world.
 * Page 44. "Though it's unclear how it happens, the pair eventually crash land onto the unusual world that has remained mysterious since the end of Halo 3. Called Requiem, the sphere is actually a variation on a scientific theoretical object called a Dyson Sphere."ArchedThunder 19:05, 7 April 2012 (EDT)
 * Just got the magazine in the mail. Thanks for the heads up.
 * Problem: Was Requiem the name of the planet, or the Dyson Sphere?
 * Requiem is the name of the encasing structure that surrounds the planet. Either way, I doubt they'd name the "simple" shell something other than the planet it protects.

Upgraded Mark VI?
Where does it state in the Game Informer that there is a upgraded Mark VI? Does it say that the Chief's new armor is upgraded Mark VI? --ADinoSupremacist 22:48, 7 April 2012 (EDT)
 * It states on page 43 that Cortana updated the Firmware of the Mjolnir armor while chief was sleepin'. But that's all.

-Mixmasterchief 18:16 8 April 2012 (CST)

Separation of Appearances
All the appearances are a bit jumbled up (Organizations and Weapons.) They need to be categorized by their organization. This is what they should look like.

UNSC

 * BR85 Heavy Barrel Service Rifle
 * Unidentified/undesignated weapon variants
 * Designated Marksman Rifle
 * High Explosive Weapon
 * etc

Covenant

 * Type-1 Energy Weapon/Sword
 * Type-25 Directed Energy Pistol
 * Type-51 Carbine

Unknown

 * Assault Carbine

The same should be made for Vehicles and such. --ADinoSupremacist 22:57, 7 April 2012 (EDT)


 * Waste of space and not our formatting style.

I meant to make it like the format of the Halo 3 page. The same format is used on the ODST page. This formatting saves space. --ADinoSupremacist 13:19, 8 April 2012 (EDT)
 * Then why did you post this here? You should have posted this on the proper talk page instead.--  Col. Spartacus  Talk Page Contributions  14:52, 8 April 2012 (EDT)

Assault Carbine
I know this is pure speculation at this point, but does anyone have ideas on what it might be? What seemed most likely to me is the MA5K, with the MA5B's 60 round magazines and high rate of fire, since there was no SMG mentioned so far. Alex T Snow 18:28, 8 April 2012 (EDT)

It would be interesting to have an SMG-like thing and a full assault rifle like in Halo 3.Weeping Angel 20:19, 8 April 2012 (EDT)


 * I was really surprised Bungie didn't include the M7S from ODST in Reach. I thought it was a nice balance between mid-range and high rate of fire that didn't render either the battle rifle or assault rifle obsolete - I would imagine any "assault carbine" would fill a similar role. If Dual Wielding isn't back, then the game would need some additions to its sandbox to balance out the Covenant weapons that can't be cut. --  Specops306   Autocrat     Qur'a 'Morhek   22:14, 8 April 2012 (EDT)
 * Did anyone ever consider it could basically be an automatic version of the covenant carbine, kinda like the plasma repeater, but without the suckiness? pestilence   Phil,  pestilence!  22:23, 8 April 2012 (EDT)
 * Nah. Looks like a complete redesign of it. — HA came 22:31, 8 April 2012 (EDT)

FORERUNNERS REVEALED!!!
Both Kiki Wolfkill and Josh Holmes posted this article on their twitter accounts so I'd say that's proof that it's legit. http://kotaku.com/5900905/cortana-is-dying-multiplayer-sounds-very-interesting-and-other-pieces-of-halo-4-news --ADinoSupremacist 02:40, 11 April 2012 (EDT)


 * I think you put too much trust in journalists. Yeah, it's pretty obvious that the Forerunners will be involved in the immediate future, but they don't exactly cite their sources.
 * "a tease that you'll finally run into some of the series' mythical Forerunners"

- emphasis added by mne.


 * Hardly confirmation. --  Specops306   Autocrat     Qur'a 'Morhek   02:52, 11 April 2012 (EDT)

So even though both Kiki Wolfkill and Josh Holmes along with several other 343i employees all posted this article on twitter doesn't mean anything? I think that's even more confirmation. They would probably say "well that's not true" or "not entirely true." Since they advertised it I'd say that it's official. --ADinoSupremacist 13:36, 11 April 2012 (EDT)

For whatever its worth, I kinda agree with Specops here.Weeping Angel 20:12, 14 April 2012 (EDT)

Halo 4 Composer
I'm new here, so I didn't know if I'm not supposed to edit the article, but I tried and it wouldn't allow me.

343i revealed the composer of H4's music to be Neil Davidge and they even released a sample of the music. You can find it at the link below.

http://halo.xbox.com/blogs/Headlines/post/2012/04/11/Neil-Davidge.aspx


 * Thanks for the info. To let you know, the article is currently protected due to some copyright violations, so even I can't edit it. Please sign your comments with ~ .--  Col. Spartacus  Talk Page Contributions  23:01, 11 April 2012 (EDT)

Covenant Empire suggestion
We have it listed that the Covenant Empire is in Halo 4, though they broke off 5 years before. Since Elites are in the game it's safe to say that Covenant Separatists are in the game. As for Covenant Loyalists we don't have any proof. In interviews in which 343i staff say the Covenant is back, I'm sure they say that for casual players to be familiar with the general species (Grunts, Elites.) --ADinoSupremacist 17:14, 14 April 2012 (EDT)


 * The "Separatists" of the SAF only included the namesake species of the Sangheili and at a time, the Mgalekgolo. As we know that we'll be fighting Sangheili, Unggoy, and Kig-yar soldiers, its likely that a faction has aligned themselves for mutual protection against any superior Human-Sanghelios threat.


 * You say we have no proof that the Covenant loyalist are in the game, yet we have no proof that the Separatists are in the game either. 343 hasn't gone past stating that the "Covenant" are back. So its safe to say that we should wait till 343 (or some other game mag) identifies the exact nature of what Covenant faction we are going to be dealing with before coming to a conclusion based off an assumption. --Killamint 19:28, 14 April 2012 (EDT)


 * This I can agree with. Saying the "Covenant Empire" returns suggests we're dealing with them as they were in their prime, which seems unlikely given what we know. 343i have only ever mentioned "the Covenant" making a return, which seems to me seems to refer to the species that made up the former Covenant instead of the faction as it used to be. Either way, it's too early to say anything conclusive at this time. --Jugus (Talk  | Contribs ) 11:31, 15 April 2012 (EDT)


 * I agree, what about something like "Enemy Covenant Forces" or "Unknown Covenant Faction"? Alex T Snow 17:35, 15 April 2012 (EDT)

So what do we call them? Covenant Loyalists? Elite loyalists? We don't know if they're the Servants of Abiding Truth (though I believe they are) so we can't call them that. I guess since Grunts are with the Elites, maybe Elite Loayalists would be a good name. --ADinoSupremacist 19:02, 15 April 2012 (EDT)


 * Simply "The Covenant". No need to elaborate upon that. It's easier for us to avoid making unnecessary theories such as the above. — subtank  19:21, 15 April 2012 (EDT)

And we don't really need to go into details that 343i hasn't given us

Archive??
This talk page is getting a little long, in fact its longer than the last one. Suggest it be archived (i.e. archive#2)??? Anyone, anybody agree?? --Killamint 19:18, 14 April 2012 (EDT)
 * I agree, but I'd wait a day or two since there's a few active conversations.--  Col. Spartacus  Talk Page Contributions  19:24, 14 April 2012 (EDT)
 * Kool! I'll wait but I don't have a choice anyway since I don't know how to do it. --Killamint 19:31, 14 April 2012 (EDT)
 * Don't worry, I know how to do it.--  Col. Spartacus  Talk Page <font color="Black">Contributions  19:35, 14 April 2012 (EDT)
 * Whenever you do please copy & paste or recite Note to all editors, Unnecessary Edits onto the next discussion page, as well as Multi Edits, especially MULTI EDITS; Someone seriously needs to study these badly and I think you know who I am talking about... I'll be sure to throw in my two cents. Thanks a milli! --Killamint 21:03, 14 April 2012 (EDT)