Forum:Halo: Broken Circle

Announcement
So... this happened. Can't say I'm not excited, even though a part of me was holding on to the hope of seeing a triumphant return of Nylund or Staten. Still, in terms of content, this novel represents a major step in the right direction: 343i seems to have finally gotten the memo that the fans weren't too big on the super-jingoistic flaunting of human supremacy of late and that there's more to the Covenant than just the savage, animalistic monsters Halo 4 and, to an extent, the Kilo-Five Trilogy, presented them as.

I really like the cover too. Very subdued and a major departure from the comic book silliness of the cover art for the otherwise phenomenal Silentium. It could easily pass off for a "proper" literary science fiction book cover (albeit with the difference that the cover actually seems to have something to do with the book's content, which isn't the case with SF novels most of the time).

The author is a complete unknown to me, for better or worse. Looking him up, he seems legit enough, though he's obviously no SF titan like Greg Bear (then again, few authors are). But he's no Karen Traviss either (in that he doesn't seem to have elicited any major controversies) which is always a plus.

Looking forward, 343's willingness to explore the distant past of the Haloverse makes me hopeful for a UNSC origins book I've been wanting to see for some time — a more grounded, harder SF story set during the early space age climate of the Interplanetary War and the related conflicts. --Jugus (Talk  | Contribs ) 05:08, 22 June 2014 (EDT)

The mystery planet
Any ideas as to the nature of the planet seen in the cover? From the decidedly Forerunner architecture it could really be anything - perhaps another variety of shield world or simply another, previously unseen type of installation. I just hope the story doesn't turn out to revolve around chasing after another Forerunner MacGuffin, though admittedly the Covenant-centric scenario would be more ideal for that sort of thing. Another possibility is that it's actually a High Charity under construction — the surface features do show some similarities to the city's dome. The seemingly complete planet underneath doesn't quite mesh with the idea of the city being built around a small chunk of the San 'Shyuum homeworld (I always did wonder how exactly the Dreadnought took a piece of the planet with it), though it could be another world being stripmined for materials.

The worst-case possibility is that the construct is a horrible misinterpretation of the nature of the quarantine shield around the San 'Shyuum home system, though I want to trust 343i (or their artists) to understand their own works enough not to make mistake on this scale. --Jugus (Talk  | Contribs ) 05:08, 22 June 2014 (EDT)

We know that a lot of the early Covenant's technology came from several Shield World installations that they stumbled across, allowing the Prophets to reverse-engineer more technology not derived solely from the dreadnought. If it was anything like Trevalyan, then it probably had ships, vehicles and Huragok, which would have been a significant jump in immediate tech level. The cover may depict one of those.--  Qura 'Morhek   The Autocrat     of Morheka   05:52, 22 June 2014 (EDT)


 * I'm convinced that the "planet" is a dilapidated Requiem-type shield world for the reasons mentioned above. I find it hard to buy into the idea that it's High Charity, though that theory is building up steam on the Waypoint forums. -- Our vengeance is at hand. Gravemind.svg ( Talk to me. ) 11:56, 24 June 2014 (EDT)


 * It's Shield World 0673 Codename: SURGEON (talk)


 * Doesn't quite match up with the book, which describes the shield world's exterior as a solid metal shell... unless it opens up at some point. --Jugus (Talk  | Contribs ) 15:44, 26 October 2014 (EDT)

Author
I haven't read anything that John Shirley has written, but I did some research on the guy. He is a majority of his novels seem to be steampunk related. He did create prequel novels for Borderlands, BioShock, Predator, and Watch_Dogs, and from what I hear, that BioShock novel was very-well received. He is adept at writing about politics and fictional religions and, as Wikipedia claims, his novels "reflects his tendency to create fantasy entertainment which is also political satire, or spiritual allegory". He also seems to actually do the research about the universe before he writes a novel:

So I feel hopeful that he can write a successful novel. And at least this time, the aliens cannot say "As the humans say..." - NightHammer (talk) 10:29, 22 June 2014 (EDT)


 * The only John Shirley work I'd heard of until yesterday was BioShock: Rapture. Simply put, the man seems to be the anti-Karen Traviss. When one author brags about doing minimal research and the other clearly invests a huge amount of time and effort into understanding the setting, there's no doubt who I'd rather have writing Halo novels. "I like to remain totally objective in my writing. Now who wants to hear me soapbox about a universe and characters I don't understand?" - Fake!Karen Traviss -- Our vengeance is at hand. Gravemind.svg ( Talk to me. ) 11:56, 24 June 2014 (EDT)


 * You had me at "anti-Karen Traviss" :P --  Qura 'Morhek   The Autocrat     of Morheka   20:45, 27 June 2014 (EDT)

Choice of subject matter
As I read the description, I wonder why they went back to the creation of the Covenant? Anyone else? I thought the next Halo Book would be about the Forerunners or maybe Flood, but the Dawn of the Covenant? Humph, interesting. Cheers, 76.17.73.143 08:06, 24 June 2014 (EDT)


 * I've wanted a novel about the formation of the UNSC (from the Rain Forest Wars to the Callisto Treaty) for many years. Barring that, how about one that focuses entirely on the Insurrection? Anyway, a Covenant origin story has always been third on my list. I just hope we get to see some of the major pre-Covenant events that led to the hegemony's founding before it jumps to the "present", which I'm guessing will take place in the first few centuries of the Covenant's existence. If the blurb is any indication, this story may shape up to be quite similar to The Duel. I'm looking forward to it. -- Our vengeance is at hand. Gravemind.svg ( Talk to me. ) 11:56, 24 June 2014 (EDT)


 * It does seem interesting. I'm wondering if we will see the Huragok, presuming they were discovered around that time. I wouldn't mind the story having similarities to The Duel, as it was one of the best Halo: Legends episodes (aside from the Sangheili anatomy). - NightHammer (talk) 12:12, 24 June 2014 (EDT)


 * Another thing I've always been curious about is how many species the Covenant have exterminated instead of incorporating. After all, we know there are other spacefaring species in the galaxy as of the 26th century. Perhaps there would be more were it not for the Covenant. Also, what's up with the Sharquoi? -- Our vengeance is at hand. Gravemind.svg ( Talk to me. ) 12:29, 24 June 2014 (EDT)


 * I've always assumed the Sharquoi were used mainly as beasts of burden.12:34, 24 June 2014 (EDT)


 * I'm wondering, when was the last time it was mentioned in media that the Covenant encountered other species that are not a part of the Covenant we know today. It may be one of those things that 343i is slowing trying to remove from the universe, or old lore that got revamped later on (like Master Chief being the only surviving Spartan-II). I find it odd that the Covenant would be willing to except the Unggoy, but not other species. Perhaps because the Unggoy were willing to do labour, while some species continued to fight the Covenant until it led to their extinction. Either way, it would be interesting to see if the Covenant did encounter previously unknown species. - NightHammer (talk) 12:43, 24 June 2014 (EDT)


 * Nothing can be more ignored than the second class of SPARTAN-IIs. Sith-venator Wavingstrider Fett helmet.jpg ( Commlink ) 12:54, 24 June 2014 (EDT)


 * Yep, I doubt we will ever hear about that again. Most of what we know about it is barely canon or from ilovebees. - NightHammer (talk) 13:01, 24 June 2014 (EDT)

I feel quite strongly that i love bees has been excised from continuity, despite occasional reassurance that it still counts. I've never cared for it, anyway. -- Our vengeance is at hand.  ( Talk to me. ) 13:09, 24 June 2014 (EDT)


 * Image is related. Sith-venator Wavingstrider Fett helmet.jpg ( Commlink ) 13:25, 24 June 2014 (EDT)

I'm very excited about seeing the origins of the Covenant. The Arbiter said there was honour in his Covenant once, and that there would be again - I'd love to see the Covenant before the machinations of the Prophets, intent on clinging to power, turned it into the monster it became. I always liked the idea of the Covenant starting out as a benevolent force, stewarding the Huragok, uplifting the Lekgolo, pacifying the Kig-Yar, saving the Unggoy from extinction. But by the start of the 26th century, it had slowly but surely entrenched itself as an expansionist colonial conqueror. The descent was slow, but inexorable, and the only solution was a purge via the Great Schism. And of course, showing the original Covenant gives us the model upon which the Arbiter would (presumably) be trying to rebuild his faction along the lines of. --  Qura 'Morhek   The Autocrat     of Morheka   20:50, 27 June 2014 (EDT)

I am hoping that we will see the San 'Shyuum-Sangheli War in maybe like 'Part One' or something, like in Halo: First Strike where we saw what happened after the end of Halo: The Fall of Reach, or maybe even like in Halo: Fall of Reach where the first few parts actually took place before the main story. That would be very, very cool. Also, can anyone else imagine a Prophet (San 'Shyuum) walking around fighting against Sangheli warriors? Yeesh, I guess there is a reason most of the battles in that war were Space Battles. Cheers, 76.17.73.143 14:25, 29 June 2014 (EDT)!

First Chapter
Here is the book's preview with Chapter 1! http://books.simonandschuster.com/Halo-Broken-Circle/John-Shirley/9781476783598#read_an_excerpt Codename: SURGEON (talk) 15:42, 26 October 2014 (EDT)
 * It was about time. What we see looks promising enough. The excerpt alone may have introduced more unique Sangheili cultural idiosyncrasies than all the Kilo-Five novels combined. --Jugus (Talk  | Contribs ) 15:44, 26 October 2014 (EDT)
 * Not to mention that the chapter is like fifty times more descriptive than the Kilo-Five Trilogy. It's very interesting and now I'm excited for November 4. - NightHammer (talk) 16:30, 26 October 2014 (EDT)

So I guess we can't start adding pages to Halopedia with info from the excerpt or does that break the spoiler laws? The Name is Gall. Sam gall.
 * We probably have spoiler tags anyways... but... let's do the articles with the proper templates... we should get to them... Erickyboo (talk) 17:27, 26 October 2014 (EDT)
 * It was released through an official channel so it's all fair game. --Jugus (Talk  | Contribs ) 03:01, 27 October 2014 (EDT)

Some extra thoughts. The writing is more descriptive than the Kilo-Five Trilogy but it also feels like it's on fast-forward most of the time. Within the span of the first chapter we've been to how many planets already? I also had some difficulty visualizing just how this shield world is supposed to work— from the description I got the sense it's structured like Requiem but the exterior shell is apparently very thin. The distance between the inner planetoid's surface and the inner "ceiling" also seems tiny, as the characters, while on a platform in the ceiling, can easily make out details on the terrestrial planetoid surface, smell its air, and descend there in a reasonable timespan. And then there this: "Below the craggy remnants of some ancient planetoid, it bristled with plant life, gleamed with streams and waterfalls." Where does the planetoid remnant fit in?

As an aside, "Enduring Bias" isn't a terribly original name for a monitor—given the "Bias" part I wonder if it's supposed to be a Contender class, but if so, why would one be left in charge of a random shield world? --Jugus (<font color="Gray">Talk  | <font color="Gray">Contribs ) 03:01, 27 October 2014 (EDT)


 * I Suppose we'll get to find out :D Sith-venator Wavingstrider  Fett helmet.jpg ( Commlink ) 03:38, 27 October 2014 (EDT)


 * Never mind about my rambling on the shield world, just re-read it and it actually says the ceiling was convex, hence the terrestrial environment was on the inner surface, like on a Dyson sphere instead of a Requiem/Shellworld type structure. There's just a planetoid there inside the thing to provide a "ceiling". The thing on the cover certainly doesn't match up with this, but it's not like artists haven't made mistakes before. --<font color="MidnightBlue">Jugus (<font color="Gray">Talk  | <font color="Gray">Contribs ) 13:14, 27 October 2014 (EDT)


 * Interesting to note that there's another reference to an unknown species - the ones who shot 'Crecka's ship to pieces, on the endges of what was then Sangheili space, clearly interstellar and powerful enough to damage a Sangheili starship. I don't know if it's tied to the apparent new species in Escalation, but I certainly hope it related to the strange ship that crashed on Alpha Halo. --  Qura 'Morhek   The Autocrat     of Morheka   03:58, 27 October 2014 (EDT)
 * Yeah, an unknown alien species shot at a Sanghelli ship in the System of Miasmic Giants which was at the far edge of Covenant space. I would hope we get to know who crashed on Alpha Halo and having them tie into this novel would be great. As for the Escalation reference its likely that they were a budding society and the Covenant was simply too large to deal with so they became a slave race. -- SamGall


 * I've often found it slightly disturbing that the humans managed to hold the covenant off for over 30 years. Could it be that the Covenant was fighting a war on 2 fronts? 343i seems determined to hing at a new species. First the unknown ship on on Alpha Halo, then the Humanoids in Escalation, now this. Surely they're building up to something. --Weeping Angel (talk) 21:17, 27 October 2014 (EDT)
 * Explains why they wanted the Forerunner dreadnoughts to finish us off to sustain mounting losses. Maybe they were attacking their other flank and the battle never spilled into our conflict. SamGall (talk) 22:04, 27 October 2014 (EDT)SamGall
 * I was under the assumption the Covenant at war with another species besides humanity theory kinda' died out in favor of various Covenant rebellions happening before the Great Schism starting with Halo: The Cole Protocol. Sith-venator Wavingstrider Fett helmet.jpg ( Commlink ) 22:36, 27 October 2014 (EDT)
 * Well in Cole Protocol not many Covenant assets were lost. I'd argue more human than Covenant assets were lost in that Covenant gun running operation. I mean Covenant could absorb the loss of a few Kig Yar, planet, and some grunts. Even a battlegroup wouldn't be a huge loss, but a small scale war even if they won over the course of 15 years would put a hurting on Covenant operations. SamGall (talk) 21:27, 28 October 2014 (EDT)Sam Gall

Prologue
Here is the Prologue! http://enterprise.supadu.com/images/ckfinder/26/pdfs/Halo/44569-Halo-Broken-Circle-Excerpt-Landing-Page.pdf Codename: SURGEON (talk) 09:35, 29 October 2014 (EDT)

Impressions
Finally got around to writing down some thoughts on the book. Overall I thought it was pretty decent and tackled a fresh subject matter. I've never been the biggest Covenant fan but this was a breath of fresh air after a couple of years of fiction focusing almost exclusively on postwar humanity and Infinity. The style had hints of The Cole Protocol but the aliens were characterized better, IMO; e.g. Sangheili honor obsession is there but it's not taken to the insane levels of TCP, yet each race has their own recognizable voice and mannerisms. The characters themselves aren't too impressive, though—in both eras we have our clearly defined good guys and bad guys with little to no ambiguity. Zo Resken is pretty much future!Mken in every respect, except maybe with less agency. But I did like the introduction of "good" San'Shyuum, something the universe has been severely lacking. I hope the focus on them hints at things to come.

The Prophet of Clarity's story had served as a good companion piece to Halo 2—it was nice seeing these events we've previously only heard about, like the massacre of the Councilors in Delta Halo's control room. But to me, the book ran out of steam after they left High Charity—Shirley may have been given the task of writing a book about the formation of the Covenant and the Great Schism, but it feels he really wanted to tell the Xellulites Ussans' story too (unless 343i has plans for them, which wouldn't be too far-fetched). But in the last part I found myself caring very little about these recently-introduced Ussan characters and their internal struggles. It didn't help that most of the character names were particularly forgettable, apostrophe-ridden alien generica and near the end I had trouble following who was supposed to be who. Add to that the textbook deus ex machina of Enduring Bias reawakening and solving every problem in one fell swoop, which raises the question of whether the last part of the book was more than a tad rushed.

Shirley did his research admirably (or the editing team has gotten better)—I only noticed a couple of mishaps, most prominent of them the way Covenant ages were referenced; the book seems to ignore the numbered ages system and claim that the named ages were all singular, unique periods of time. I like how he solved the antigravity belt issue: they used to be little more than a relic from a time before antigrav chairs were a thing in the fiction and Shirley made the two coexist reasonably. Tons of obscure things are also namedropped (my favorite of them the gravity bridges). Even though it's just as possible Shirley spent a productive day of research on Halopedia, it's still commendable.

Much attention is devoted to the shield world and its supposedly extraordinary disassembly mechanism and while somewhat novel it didn't impress me that much given what we know Forerunner tech can do. When you have full-size Dyson spheres enclosed in compressed spacetime and multi-lightyear hyperspacial defenses, a planet-sized structure that can blow apart and (barely) survive is hardly that extraordinary. It felt more like a second-rate model instead of the final masterpiece of the shield world project it was presented as.

I also wonder if they're even going to revisit the fate of Janjur Qom. Since the Bestiarum there's been an implied aura of mystery to the planet and even the star going supernova is not confirmed (except in the Encyclopedia, though I'd take anything from that book with a grain of salt). While Broken Circle mentions the star's possible instability, we never get a confirmation of it being destroyed. It's always possible the Prophets continued to raid the Stoics for their females—I doubt a group as small as the one Mken retrieved would be enough to maintain genetic diversity over several thousand years. And what became of the Luminary? I found myself wondering why was Mken's mission treated as a one-shot thing—couldn't the Covenant just send in another party to acquire it? --<font color="MidnightBlue">Jugus (<font color="Gray">Talk  | <font color="Gray">Contribs ) 12:51, 20 November 2014 (EST)


 * I almost wonder whether, with their new Sangheili footsoldiers at their disposal and the combined resources and territory that came with the merger, Janjur Qom was the first target of the Covenant's military conquest. We know that the Forerunners had the capacity to destroy a star, along with the planets that orbited it, and they do have a Forerunner dreadnought that's been stripped of its weapons by the start of the Covenant, those weapons had to go somewhere. The Prophets themselves may have destroyed their homeworld, when invasion didn't work. --  Qura 'Morhek   The Autocrat     of Morheka   21:04, 11 December 2014 (EST)


 * I doubt that. The Reformist San'Shyuum must have known they were doomed in the long run as High Charity's population couldn't have been enough to sustain viable genetic diversity over another 3000+ years, technological developments notwithstanding. Janjur Qom would've been their only hope for long-term survival, though I can see they may have wanted to curtail further technological development on part of the Stoics. The raid in Broken Circle was only one tiny ship, not an invasion—if the Covenant wanted to take the planet, they could've easily done that at any time. I don't think the Stoics' Tier 4 technology could put up any meaningful resistance against a true conquest, and that's something along the lines of what I was thinking; the San'Shyuum could've kept bombing Janjur Qom back to the stone age time and time again and kept stealing healthy females to sustain their population. Grim, but it's something I could see them doing. At the very least it's likely they may have "saved" a large number of healthy specimens from the planet if they knew the star was about to blow. --<font color="MidnightBlue">Jugus (<font color="Gray">Talk  | <font color="Gray">Contribs ) 00:14, 12 December 2014 (EST)