Talk:Paegaas Workshop Spiker

Naming Dispute
I think we should name the article "Brute Spiker" or "Brute Spike Rifle" and have it's technical ONI name, Type-25 Carbine be included within the article as an "also-known". I think that its most common name should be used, for the same reason we do not call the M6D article the Model 6D Pistol article or the SRS99D S2 AM sniper rifle article the Sniper Rifle System 99D S2 Antimaterial Rifle article.

To support this, if you go to Halo3.com the section where it talks about the Brute Spiker designates it as the "Brute Spike Rifle". I think we should call it that then. Justin Time 22:25, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
 * We usually use the technical and official designation for weapons and equipment like this, because "Spiker" is only the weapon's nickname. -- ED ( talk )(gaming) 04:24, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, I guess I can agree with Justin Time. The Brute Spiker would also be easier to say... But it's not the name of the gun. Hmmm. Well, the Brute Spiker sounds a lot cooler. Plus, that's what Bungie calls it, and what the In-Game charactures call it. I think we should rename it to Brute Spiker! Spartan99 7:15 AM, 14,August 2007

Well I can understand that, but it seems unlikely we will even hear the words "type-25 carbine" in either the Halo 3 game or manual, so I think the article should be called Brute Spike Rifle for the same reason that in the real wikipedia the article on Cats isnt called Felis silvestris catus. Justin Time 20:14, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree with ED, Halopedia is a place for correct names, not nicknames... Captain  Tony  Talk 8/1/2007

agreed(same with justin time) Spartan-G007 XBL gamertag:SpartanG007

Justin Time, please accustom yourself to halopedia's naming system. It's like that. If we follow your rule, all weapons and vehicles pages will have to be renamed. Maybe even more....--Sp art an- 781  CommCSV 14:20, 2 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Thank you spartan-007. And no Spartan781, if we were to follow YOUR naming system all the pages would have to be changed. Remember that the Mongoose and Warthog are not official ONI names, and so the Mongoose page would have to be changed to just M247 ULATV, because the designation "Mongoose" is just a nickname. --Justin Time 21:59, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * "Type-25 Carbine" I don't believe is the ONI name, although my memory's pretty rusty. ^^ Check out the Bungie.net weekly update. ;-) However, as always, we appreciate your interest, Justin! =] Cheers, RelentlessRecusant  'o the Halopedia Team http://images.wikia.com/rainbowsix/images/7/73/GDI2.jpg TALK • MESSAGE 23:16, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Whos title are we going by of naming it, the brutes or humans,sure it's called a carbine but it's as big as an MA5 assault rifle.It's kind of strange (but not in a bad way) that the Covenant weapons are almost always bigger if compared to a human version in the same class but that's only because they ment to be used by big aliens.--0nyx Sp1k3r 00:37, 3 August 2007 (UTC)BLARG!!!


 * That is true, the Brutes most likely call it the Spike Rifle, I am much more inclined to believe that then the Brutes calling it "type-25 carbine". Not only that, but most humans call it the Spike Rifle or Spiker also. --Justin Time 05:45, 3 August 2007 (UTC)


 * If you're going to rename this, then why not do the same to Brute Chopper and Spike Grenade articles?--Sp art an- 781  [[Image:Kill_Frenzy_Medal.gif|30px]] CommCSV 01:34, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

NOTE:The Type-25 thing is just like the model number of the UNSC weapons. The Carbine part is like the "ICWS" part of the assault rifle. The whole TYPE-25 CARBINE name is the full ONI name. So please, we want COMPLETE names, not common names. Because for example:the common name of the assault rifle is just Assault Rifle. If we rename his article, we might as well take out all the UNSC weapon numbers and designations(like ICWS or MAGNUM). Please, Justin, and all those who think alike, please think it out.The Type-25 Carbine is the name given by BUNGIE.--Sp art an- 781  CommCSV 01:59, 4 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Spartan781, I hate to say it, but that comparison, is wrong. The 'Type-25' in this weapons name is like the 'MA5C' designation for the Assault Rifle, Carbine, is a weapon type, just like Assault Rifle. ICWS (which stands for 'Integrated Combat Weapon System', is what the weapons is used, or was designed to be, just as the 'AM' in SRS99D S2 AM stands for 'Antimaterial') -- Avalon 08:47, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

-Spartan-781, Why did you make two seperate notes? Oh well. I would not personally mind changing the Spike Grenade and Chopper article names, but right now I do not feel like getting into them right now since I am already doing a lot of work in a lot of articles.

And I am well aware that type-25 carbine is its ONI/UNSC designation, but since I am not saying to call this article "carbine" or "type-25", that means I am not wagering to call the MA5C Assault Rifle "MA5C" or "Assault Rifle".

No, I am not talking about UNSC naming designations, I am talking about the Brute/common soldier naming designations for their own weapons. --Justin Time 05:07, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Why is it called a rifle...when...its like not a rifle.--64.121.58.80 08:25, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

The Type-25 Carbine is what i know the gun as however a disambugation page that redirects to here for Spiker and Spiker rifle would be mighty useful. And as for that message above, a carbine is a shortened rifle (such as the M4A1 is the shortened version of the M16). --Ajax 013 14:48, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

What is wrong with titling it "The Brute Spiker" or something. And who cares what its real name is if basicly no one uses it in a conversation. This is about wither or not change its name. Ed's idea is great. Also, Spiker is easier for people hew don't focus on a weapon's or a vehicle's real name when its easier to called it by it's nick name to search for. many people go by a gun's nick name. But still it's important to know its true name, but If you merely want to find information on it, it would be easier to use its nickname. --Hydraman 23:15, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

The thing is if somebody searches Spiker or Spiker Rifle, it redirects them to the Type-25 Carbine page anyway. --Ajax 013 07:40, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

I think it is better to have the name as Type-25 carbine because that is its proper name. Justin Time: I think it sounds more profesional to have it as Type-25 carbine because we should use the full and proper names. Not the nicknames.

Staff Sergeant-G023 Comm Channel <font color=#000000>Mission History<font color="#000000">B Company  15:18, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

I think we should compromise and name the article something like Type-25 Brute "Spiker" Carbine. If we only had proper names as titles the mongoose article would have to only include the M247 ULATV and exclude the "mongoose" nickname. I think this is too vague for someone unfamiliar with the Halo 3.-- EliteSpartan 1:56 August 11 2007

But thats not its proper name thats its UNSC name. We dont call the Master Chief article "Demon", so why should we call a covenant article by its UNSC name, espescially if that UNSC name isnt even commonly used by most members of the UNSC itself? --Justin Time 07:36, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry justin, but thats incredibly flawed. besides we don't know what the Covenant name for it is. And EliteSpartan, you have failed to take my previous message into account. If you type in spiker rifle or spike rifle and such similar things, it will redirect you to the page do it doesn't matter! --Ajax 013 11:22, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Ajax does have a point, we dont know if "Spiker" is the covenant name. We should probably wait until Halo 3 comes out or it is confirmed that type-25 is the true or just the UNSC name. But if Spiker does turn out to be the covenant name the article should be renamed because that would be its "true" name (see Justins previous post). -- EliteSpartan 2:17 August 12 2007

Here here. I am so confident that the words type 25 carbine wont even be uttered by the UNSC, that I am willing to take that bet. --Justin Time 04:35, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, and here here, I don't think the UNSC would even utter "MA5C ICWS Assault Rifle". They just say "Assault Rifle". Justin, stop being a "noob" around here. No offense though.--<font color="LightGrey">Sp <font color="DarkGray">art <font color="Gray">an- <font color="Black">781  CommCSV 13:35, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

No, probably not the ICWS. But the MA5C and such will be clearly in the game on ammo cartridges, weapon pick ups, maybe some dialogue, and not to mention the UNSC point of view manual. So whats your point? --Justin Time 22:11, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Hey its like the human weapons have abreviated names the Covenant Weapons no. please dont try more you are losing.--<font color="Black">Clavix2  <font color="Red">TALK TO ME <font color="Black">Things I done 22:23, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

"Human weapons have abbreviated names, the Covenant Weapons no"? Somewhere out there, an english teacher is weeping... -_-

Losing? Well I can probably guess what grade level of school your in...seriously, reply with an intelligent rebuttal if you are going to dispute something someone else has said.

Anyways, as has been said, we cannot really decide until the game is released, so I suggest we suspend discussion until then, then we will see who is right. --Justin Time 02:50, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Say me how much people is with you, and I say that human weapons have a technical name like the MA5C but this weapons or the most part of covenant weapons dont have this name, best leave it. --<font color="Black">Clavix2  <font color="Red">TALK TO ME <font color="Black">Things I done 02:59, 15 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I trust Bungie more than the instructional manuals, those are always riddled with mistakes. I've only ever seen bungie make one mistake. If Bungie says it's designation is Type-25 Carbine, who is to doubt them? And i think i have said this 2 or 3 times already but the name doesn't matter, as long as they type in one of its names then it will all go to the same page. Liek if you type assault rifle it goes to a disambugation page for Ma2B and MA2C and maybe a few more. Same with battle rifle and sniper. --Ajax 013 03:02, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Name does matter, because I am sure people would care if we renamed the shotgun "Banana Launcher" and decided it was okay because shotgun redirected to there. Not to mention people searching for the Spiker not by its common name will not recognize "type-25 carbine" as what they are looking for if they come upon a "Articles with references" page.

Also, Halo 3 is going to be more then a manual, its going to feature a huge amount of bonus content sure to contain information about the Spiker. All written by Bungie by the way.

And Bungie is the source of all the info on Halo, and I think it would be more appropriate to call the Spike Rifle what it is called by its own brute users in the game, and the UNSC within the game, and the manual if it says that, then some small unknown designation given to it by Bungie in some obscure online post. For the same reason we call the Major Elite page "Major Elite" rather then "Major Domo".

But lets not get our panties in a bunch, and wait for the game and other information to come out before we decide anything, because we do not have enough info as of now.

P.S., Clavix2, for someone who is editing an english wiki, you sure dont speak good english. --Justin Time 03:10, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Just leave it is the name its on halo 3 beta, on magazines, etc. And what if im not good at English im from somewhere when people dont talk english, we arent discusing my f*cking english. <font color="Black">Clavix2  <font color="Red">TALK TO ME <font color="Black">Things I done 03:18, 15 August 2007 (UTC)


 * As far as I have seen, when you pick it up in the beta it says "spiker" and the magazines have pretty much only called it the spiker or spike rifle. And your english does matter, since this is an english wikipedia. Can we all agree to reserve judgement for release? If you really think youre right it wouldnt matter if the game was released now would it? --Justin Time 03:25, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Oh God 1. Please leave my f*ucking english quiet, we are talking about the spiker. 2. If you want to change name just do it then people will talk and ... you know. Really I dont want to fight i want to have friends not enemies. <font color="Black">Clavix2  <font color="Red">TALK TO ME <font color="Black">Things I done 21:01, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry Justin but do you purposly ignore other peoples points unless you can ridicule them? You do not understand that should somebody type in Spiker of Spike Rifle and hit go, they cme directly to the Tpye-25 Carbine page, which right at the top notes that the weapon is called Spiker and Spike Rifle and has a great big picture of it. And whats the unreleated crap about the shotgun being renamed the bana launcher? Its beside the point. Also the reason why we call the Minor Elite by Minor Elite and not Minor Domo because it has NEVER been called Mior Domo, only the Major Rank was named with a Domo (Major Domo) and even then it was only used once. and as words straight from Bungie's cyber mouths, 'Over the years it has garnered the nicknames “Spike Rifle”, “Spiker”, and “hatchet gun”.' In fact, we don;t know what Brutes call them but all references to it by marines have called it the spike rifle, so if we name it by what the marines do then the page should be renamed to 'Spike Rifle'. Infact, it was only called the spiker is an informal pick up name on the beta. If we are to rename things after they are called from action buttons does that mean the M12 LRV 'warthog' should no longer have its military designation and should be permenantly called by its nickname?

Now, this has gone on long enough and the simple facts are Justin, your wrong because both the community and Bungie disagree with you. The only thing you have in yourr favour is a pick up name used in an unfinished build of the game. And again, like i said, all the nicknames of the Type-25 Carbine link to this page, so should you click on a link under called 'spiker' surprise surprise, you come here. --Ajax 013 21:44, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

I already refuted your redirection point. We need correct names for articles even if they are redirected, because if I typed in brute smg, and got a page which showed articles with mentions of brutes and smgs, no casual gamer would ever know to click on the "type-25 carbine" somewhere near the bottom, they would not know that that is the name of the weapon whos name they forgot.

And you know I meant Major Elite. And that was straight from an official source to, but because it was only mentioned once and not in the core stuff, we call the article "Major Elite" instead of "Major Domo". Same goes for the spiker.

And your warthog example works against you to (besides the obvious differences like being mentioned in more then one place, being in the manual, etc.), after all you would not remove the word "warthog" from our Warthog article because it is just a nickname right?

I think it is pretty damned fair that if the whole of Halo 3 does not call it the type-25 carbine, including its manual and stuff, then we should call it "Spike Rifle" with mention of its official designation in the article. After all, we did the exact same thing for "Major Elite", for the same reasons, didnt we? --Justin Time 23:44, 15 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I think if somebody typed Brute SMG into search and it came up spiker, they still wouldn't know what the hell was going on. Besides, thats why we have search, so you can look at different articles that are found in a search. And how is a casual gamer going to know about the spiker? A majority of halo fans didn't even play on the Beta, so there only sources of information would be the web, like here, or bungie (where surprise surprise, it was called the Type-25 Carbine :D). Now seeing as the Type-25 Carbine name has been set in internet stone by Bungie staff and its the official system here to name everything by their OFFICIAL designation, not an informal nickname. Now i think your a good editor but you need to get your facts worked out and get accustomed to the inclusionist rule on here. Basically we include every little morsel of Halo knowledge and trivia, usually to its own page, such as the MA5 series assault rifles, the BR55 series, the sniper rifle series of weapons (never can remeber it's name). And also, if its full, proper designation, is spoke of in a concrete source, then it is used. In this case, the Type-25 Carbine. --Ajax 013 01:06, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

If they put brute smg into the search, and they saw Spiker, it is more likely to jog their memory since they see that word every time they pick it up in the game, then type-25 carbine is.

You are right in there being few sources of information, that is why I have proposed to suspend judgement until after release, which since you also agree on the lack of information I do not see why you should disagree on that. It stays "type-25 carbine" until release, and if you are confident you are right, the release and playing of the game for a while should not change anyones opinions.

The type-25 is an official designation, just like Major Domo is. I think as a general rule vague EU naming should take a backseat to the other name if the other name is used in practically all other sources, espescially if there is a chance that the other name is what the Covenant actually call it.

Wouldnt you agree that if the game came out and the Covenant actually called it that, it should be changed to their naming for their weapon? Thats why we should wait judgement for more information.

And I know we include all details about a thing in its page, that is why I have joined wikipedia. However, type-25 carbine is no more the proper or inclusionist name of the weapon then M12 LRV is the full and proper name of the Warthog article. Also, this Wiki has tended to make the names of the articles more accessible to the casual Halo gamer then the hardcore gamer who is one of the few that remembers the odd EU designation Bungie gave it. That is why Major Elite is not "Major Domo", that is why the nicknames for human vehicles appear in their names (warthog, mongoose, scorpion), and that is why the Covenant pages have their common names first, and their official EU designated names in parenthesis (for example: Elites (Sangheilli)).

As I am sure we can agree, there is no point going back and forth over the same things and "it could be possible"s, so lets leave it how it is for now and wait for release to give us the maximum possible information to make a decision. --Justin Time 01:37, 16 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree with Ajax. Besides if we did rename this article the Spiker then we would have to reanem the M90 Shotgun page as the Shotgun, or the SR999C S2 AM Sniper Rifle page as the Sniper Rifle ect. Justin, please recognize that halopedia is meant for the technical names, not the nicknames.

--<font color="#000000">Master Sergeant G-23 <font color="#FF0000">Comm Channel <font color=#000000>Mission History<font color="#000000">B Company  01:31, 16 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Justin Time, as far as I can tell, you want to go by the ONI name, but the thing that you have to realize is that Halopedia is not UNSC-centered, so we have to go by the official name. Kay? -- NOTASTAFF  GPT ( talk )( eating ) 01:32, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

No, the M90 shotgun would still be the M90 shotgun, because that is its full and official name as stated by the game, the manual, and all EU sources.

Guesty, you are wrong. I am against the ONI name, and for the non-UNSC centered name, so you should actually be agreeing with me...--Justin Time 01:39, 16 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Gah, I'm sick and exhausted, cut me a little slack please... I thought "Type-25 Carbine" was the Covenant name or sumfink and you wanted to go by the nickname. Well, anyway, what I mean is that, while it's best to go by it's name according to those affiliated wif it, if we can't, nickname should be our LAST option, so "Type-25 Carbine" is still bettar than "Brute Spiker," IMO. Maybeh. Gah, I'll figure it out once I'm bettar... =S -- NOTASTAFF  GPT ( talk )( eating ) 01:43, 16 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Oh, GPT forgot to mention, he's an admin with the last say in the matter ;]. --Ajax 013 01:48, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes, but he doesnt seem very decisive right now. GPT, youd agree that if it was called "Brute Spiker" or "Brute Spike Rifle" in the Halo 3 manual, extra content, game scripting, marines, Brutes themselves, and other Covenant in Halo 3, that the article should be called Brute Spike Rifle or Brute Spiker and "type-25 carbine" should be listed as another name for it in the article since it would have only one obscure internet post from the UNSC point of view calling it that right? --Justin Time 01:53, 16 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Jesus, this has been going on MUCH too long, everyone is practically against you and Bungie calls it the Type-25 Carbine and that's all there is f***** to it ChurchReborn 01:53, 16 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Now now CR no need to yell at the guy.

--<font color="#000000">Master Sergeant G-23 <font color="#FF0000">Comm Channel <font color=#000000>Mission History<font color="#000000">B Company  01:58, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Plenty of people have been on my side, they just have not been actively posting like my opposers do. Bungie also calls Major Elites "Major Domos", Warthog is just a nickname for the M12 LRV, and Elites are just a nickname for "Sangheili".

Articles are named for clarity to non-experts, that is why animal articles in Wikipedia are not named by their latin names, like the article on Cats is not called Felis silvestrus catus. So therefore, I think itd be fair to name this article "Brute Spike Rifle" if Halo 3 comes out and no new references to it being called "type-25 carbine" exist. --Justin Time 01:59, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Images
I see no reason to keep the bigger image when we already have an up-close shot of the gun. It seems to me that all guns are dual-wielded the same. BTW, sorry for the typos in my earlier summary. --Dragonclaws 04:00, 6 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I think, that if it's going to be one shot or the other, that the one of the Spartan dual-weilding should be kept, as the spikers are much more visible in it.


 * Note that when I posted that comment, the article was in a different state. The image I was refering to was a poor magazine scan. I now believe the images are okay. --Dragonclaws 22:10, 29 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I dont tink theres much need 4 that video, i have a better 1 here


 * It says there that it's for a modded map. That means it's not canon, isn't official, and shouldn't be used here. I know your intention is good, but I just don't think that's a good example. However, the video link does need updating, because that video is no longer there.  guesty - persony - thingy  21:55, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

No, if you click "here" it goes you to you tube.The video with the modded thing is "CMT's Spike Rifle".-Spartan-007

To me, the weapon looks a bit unstable. If someone were to dual weild a pair, the bayonets would weigh down the front of the weapon (unless made of a super-light alloy), making it very hard to hold.-- Caboose   Orange Juice  and  Cookies  04:03, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

It could be a super light alloy because the covenant have a whole arsenel of unknown alloy so you never know--The Chazz025 and Clan [Razu'Kuzumee] 04:05, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Tungsten is actually a very heavy alloy, and the weapon itself is described as being so heavy it can only really be wielded by someone with prodigous strength, i.e. a Spartan or a Brute. (Note Bungie's commentary on it) -Anon

No marines have been shown to be able to use them to, based on those field reports. I think it takes great strength to dual wield them for long periods of time, strength like really strong humans, Spartans, and Brutes have. Justin Time 22:25, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Counterpart: Shotgun???
I don't understand why the shotgun is listed as the spikers counterpart. According to the bungie article the counterpart to the spiker is the SMG. The shotgun and spiker dont even function remotely similar, their only resemblance being that the spiker resembles a cut down shotgun <font color="Q2Q2Q2">sha <font color="#545454">dow <font color="#848484">in <font color="#999999">the <font color="#A3A3A3">pri <font color="D6D6D6">sm 21:52, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Reference should be removed. -ED 22:05, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Halo 2 pistol
What do you mean the spikers are as useful as the halo 2 pistol?

firearm type

How come it is a carbine if it is automatic because a carbine is a semiautomatic rifle.--0nyx Sp1k3r 20:13, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

-Generally, a carbine refers to a 'short rifle', regardless of it's fire mode. e.g., the M4 carbine fires semiauto or 3 shot burst

sorry .I read on that on another site, I guess not everything read is true.--0nyx Sp1k3r 19:31, 30 April 2007 (UTC)BLARG!

when did jackals
in any novels it does not say that jackals wielded the spiker.Halonerd

Yeah, were did all this illegal side arm stuff come from? --Climax Viod 12:48, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Read the Bungie feature on it. -The Dark Lord Azathoth 15:34, 11 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Which Bungie feature? Links and a quote please? --Justin Time 07:48, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Metal Spikes?
Where did the information come from that the spikes were metal?Sorry it's just that I have a theory that would make little more sense then metal spikes.I think the spikes come from some kind plant or animal from the brute home world as come from a natural resource and they use them as weaponry (like how south american naitives used the venom from poisonous frogs for blow darts).Nobody would think of it unless it was inspired or discovered.Besides isn't strange they would manufacture metal spikes?--0nyx Sp1k3r 19:46, 12 June 2007 (UTC)BLARG!!!!

TWO FOOT LONG SPIKESAND FORTY TO A MAGAZINE?1
I'm sorry buit exactly how large is the spiker? I mean it fires tweo foot long spikes!! How could its magazine even hold forty of them!!

Well alien weapons are larger than human weapons, the brutes are bigger than human ,to them its like an automatic pistol but compared to our guns it could be called a rifle and because most things look larger in real life than measured in fiction and or maby'e because the spikes are really thin so even though they're long, they could have more room in then gun.--0nyx Sp1k3r 14:56, 29 June 2007 (UTC)BLARG!!!

What? Two foot long spikes? That does seem right at all. Perhaps the information is wrong or the ammunition expands somehow when coming out of the gun. Justin Time 22:25, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

I tried to make a spiker model, it was bigger than my arm!!! 81.7 cm length, I doubt it! A plasma rifle is only 66 cm. The spiker looks small on the halo 3 beta, like a plasma pistol. Is it really this long? Grunty friends! 09:27, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Good question. This is probably just exaggeration on EGM's part. The Spiker's magazine is, at best, only about 6 inches long, based on its size in proportion to the entire weapon. They do look a bit longer than that when stuck in an enemy, but that's likely just to make them visible in gameplay. OTOH, perhaps the process that heats the spikes up allows them to be stretched by some other mechanism. Who knows? Perhaps Bungie will release some more information about the weapon in the future. Perhaps not. Rtas Vadumee 08:42, 5 August 2007 (UTC)