Talk:Human-Covenant War

Great War?
Who calls it the great war, and when? I see no citations.

It doesn't have to be said in the literature or the games. It was literally the greatest war in both the covenant and human history, so of course you would call it the Great War as no other war matches it. Just like World War I, after it happen peopled didn't call it world war I, they called the Great War, because at its time it was the greatest war in history. I'm sure though the humans call it the Human-Covenant War, but you can probably bet that the covenant called it the Great War.

New Picture
Since now, the main pictures of major wars on Wikipedia consist of a diarama of scenes from the war, I created somethiong similar to that, but somehow, there is now way to add a caption, which is slightly obnoxious, but if anyone knows how to do that, please put the following in:


 * Caption: From left to right: A Sangheili warrior holds a freshly killed marine on Harvest, The Pillar of Autumn evades Covenant forces, SPARTAN 117 destroying Installation 04, Marines engaged during the First Battle of Harvest, A Scarab opens fire on UNSC forces, The Arbiter and John 117 engaged against loyalist forces in africa.

thanks User: Skene4kaos


 * whatever happened to skenes pic? i believe we should have a picture that represents different battles during the war like he said. pictures of single engagements, like the one now, seem a little too narrow-scoped --[[Image:Legendary.jpg|20px]]Ender the Xenocide [[Image:Legendary.jpg|20px]] 19:23, 17 November 2010 (EST)


 * I agree that we should have a montage image, especially when the current one is from an announcement trailer and thus, less canon than most other material. --Jugus (Talk  | Contribs ) 05:27, 18 November 2010 (EST)


 * Well i already added the pic but i dont know how to add a caption. someone go do that--1221751884 I-animated-this-for-you.gifEnder the Xenocide 1221751884 I-animated-this-for-you.gif 20:47, 25 November 2010 (EST)

Why was the original diorama changed? 50% of the new image is made of concept art. The one i used had more in-game/final images as per cannon policy. An example of the new picture's flaw would be that image of the Reach concept of Elites vs Spartans. Most likely that never really happened exactly as it is depicted. I know my version had an image of MC of the Starry Night trailer but that can be easily changed. --Ender the Xenocide 00:21, 21 December 2010 (EST)

Intergalactic
In what way is the conflict intergalactic? An intergalactic war refers to war between combatants whose headquarters are in different galaxies. The only action outside the Milky Way was the Battle of Installation 00.--Isidis 128 19:26, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Intergalactic means inside the galaxy look In-ter-galactic
 * It's an interstellar war actually.--WarGrowlmon18 21:58, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

UNSC Surrendered?
UNSC Surrendered? Whoa! This article is way off! Earth hasnt been even captured! Who wrote this article!--JohnSpartan117 23:01, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I made this article, but others have insisted on keeping that line. It comes from the description of a "thorougly conquered and covenant-held Earth" as described by Bungie for Halo 3. -ED 23:05, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Ok, but did the UNSC surrender? No, for all we know they could be still fighting even though the Covenant take the planet.--JohnSpartan117 23:06, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Change it if you want. -ED 23:08, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

2553
Does any one else think halo3 is gonna be in the year 2553 becuase halo2 ended in november mendoza 1:15, 9 july 2007 (utc)

I started the page
I started the page and the battle dialogSauronas Churchill 11:15, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Congratulations.--Isidis 128 19:20, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Linki
===The Only Way===

No-one can put anymore detail on the page, except for putting more links.Sauronas Churchill 12:02, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

===Look above===

I did start this page, and the people above, they don't know the plot of Halo3, just the tralier or demo etc, why don't they just read the bloody page for Halo3Sauronas Churchill 12:02, 25 October 2007 (UTC)



I'm quite frankly sick of you. You've joined halopedia, you made a hell of alot of spam pages and uploaded alot of duplicate imagry, now your making a duplicate page of the covenat civil war by missing out a letter, now your claiming to have started a page that predates you joining and borderline insulting superior members of Halopedia to make up for your own inadequatsies. Pleases dissist your noisy prattling. --Ajax 013 12:36, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

what gives!
if the convenet win what happens to man-kind?! do we just die and the covenet rules all? I need info!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

if the convenet win what happens to man-kind?! do we just die and the covenet rules all? I need info!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
 * There is none yet. That's what Halo 3 is for. We'll find out what happend to mankind when the game comes out. -ED 00:52, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Theres a problem with this article, a few billion? Covenant, a few million? You must be nuts, a few billion is more like it, the grunts are cannon fodder, and most likely billions of them were killed in the war.
 * Not likely. As you can see on the "Heroic" difficulty of the Halo games (The generally accepted "real" difficulty in universe) you see that most humans aren't very good at killing Covenant, even Grunts. Casualties are even, at best. Add to that the billons of human civilians killed by the Covenant when they glass worlds, versus the fact that the UNSC has never attacked a single Covenant colony, I would say that is about right. -ED 16:45, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The Covenant population has to be bigger because a single Covenant ship can deploy thousands of troops at a time so the covenant population has to be at least a few billion and the covenant would have at least a million casualties in operation first strike--MCDBBlits 02:01, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

what if the Covenant Separatists join the Humain?

How exactly is one race (us) supposed to be bigger than EIGHT races(covenant)?!Papayaking 06:23, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Cleanup
Can someone tag this for cleanup?--JohnSpartan117 05:05, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
 * What on the page needs work? -ED 19:54, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

The timeline.--JohnSpartan117 00:47, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

If we do lose...
If we do lose, I'd rather hope that the humans were assimilated into the covenant rather than be exterminated.


 * I find this unlikely. The Covenant considers us devils, not just obstacles to be assimilated. "When no single human brick lies atop another, then will we be satisfied with your destruction." Besides that, the Covenant is falling apart in civil war. I don't think they'll have time to enslave us properly as they race to reach the Ark first. --Dragonclaws 22:47, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
 * The logical thing for them to do would be to focus on one enemy at a time, but I suspect that humanity is so weak at this point that it wouldn't make much of a difference. -ED 16:48, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

military force
I able to evaluate it number : 1999 6 billions of population 22 millions of soldiers 2552 60 billions population 220 millions of soldiers + de concription. during war. It is impossible that the covenant have just 40 millions of troops an 6,000 star ships
 * No info is avalibale on the total numbers yet. -- ED ( talk )(shockfront) 16:08, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Actually your number are quite off. It was said there are almost 40 billion humans. The number for the total size of the military is way off, since on Reach there were more than 380 million soldiers. Putting that along with Earth's military force which is probably at 1 billion or less and combining all the other colonies military force before they were destroyed the numbers would be: 40 billion people 3-5 billion soldiers. You would but the covenants military force also in the billions as well as they suffered billions of military casualties in the war and their navy was probably larger than 10,000 star ships.

military losses
I have estimate at less 3,100,000 deads for the covenant with the information we that have.

I have add this new infos: unsc all outer colonies, large scale of the army Covenant the salia system medium scale of troops. Chief frank 001 15:23, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Again, the covenant suffered billions of military casualties even though they were winning. It would be impossible to say the covenant loss 3.1 million soldiers over a period of 28 years, while humanity loss more than 25 billion civilian and military casualties.

I agree 3.1 million is abusrdly low for a war of this scale. During World War II the Soviet Union alone suffered 8 million military losses and World War II was clearly smaller than the Human-Covenant War. --LeeUnit92 19:08, 14 February 2012 (EST)

Salia system
Can I include the Salia system in the covenant losses? Chief frank 001 14:14, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Covenant Separatists
the Covenant Separatists have allied with the UNSC can i or some 1 else fix the fraction list but to clarify does all of the unsc know about this alliance say the halo 3 elite bios "The Elites have allied with their former Human foes in part because of a deep-sealed resentment of the Prophet rule and in part because they actually understand the scale of the Flood problem."

Is the alliance official?

--Fir st S erg eant Dig ipa td ''(My Rate ) (My Talk ) (My Adventures ) (<font color="#808080">Happy Birthday )

Hmm.... well apart from the 'Onyx incident' and the Nova going off (blamed on Brutes anyway) theres been trade agreements going on, Elite representatives running about and what not. --Ajax 013 02:05, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Then there's the fact that N'tho 'Sraom has been passing information about the Brutes to the UNSC. That's the best example of it i can think of.  Kora ‘Morhekee   The Battle-Net  My Conquests.  02:59, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Cole
what even happened to Cole?was he killed or something? Voy101

If i remember right there was a painting in the books that was title "cole last stand" or something like that

a new picture
The actual picture of the page boring me so what do you think if we change it?(please suggest a other pic) <font color="SteelBlue">ÇЋЇŒʢ ʕЛΆΝќ<font color="#000000">Aegis Company   <font color="#A9A9A9">βĻά βĻά βĻά<font color=Teal>ɰЊάł Ḷ ḍõИШ  13:13, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

One of these Two are Wrong
The pages about the Halo 3 levels all say they take place in 2553. Yet Here, it says Battle of Installation 00 and The new Installation 04 both take place in 2552. I believe the Halo 3 levels are wrong though. Nope Halo 2 took place from October-November. It would take not days but maybe months to take the the UNSC homeworld. And if the ceremony was on March 3rd then yeah it was in 2553--Councilor &#39;Rumilee 13:18, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Covenant Casualties?
One of the covenant casuelties list says "(billions of dead)" and the other one says 500.6 million. Which is it? I changed the casualties of the second list to match the first one, but someone changed it back.

I think we can get an "at least" figure for the number of covenant ships destroyed in the war. Admiral Cole claimed to have destroyed at least 300 ships up to 2543, then another 200 ships at Psi Serpentis. Then 18 ships at Sigma Octanus, and soon after about 300 more at Reach. I think we can say at least 20 more at the destruction of Halo. Then 500 more ships at the Unyielding Heirophant, and 14 more at the first Battle of Earth. Then the Sangheili fleet massing at Joyous Exultation got NOVA bombed, which probably cost about 500 or so more ships. Then the real kicker came at the battle of High Charity, when the fleet that was described by the arbiter as "Thousands" started fighting each other and the flood. We can probably interpret thousands as being at least 2000 ships. Truth probably made it out with about 400 ships, as it would take at least that many to bust through Earth's orbital defense grid that still had 298 platforms. Truth's fleet was then whittled down to only 27 ships. Then the Separatists got away with a measly 9. That means that at least 1591 ships were destroyed at delta Halo. Then 373 more at the second battle of Earth, and finally the remaining 27 destroyed at the Ark. That all adds up to 3843 covenant ships detroyed in the war, and that's not even counting anything outside of those major engagements, which could be hundreds more. That's a lot of ships. I don't think they have very many left after that. I doubt that the UNSC even had that many to lose in the entire war.Jamminben 23:03, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Human Deaths
it says 1,006 Billion dead on the human side,but wouldn't 1,006 Billion make it 1,006 TRILLION,not billion Voy101
 * Umm, 1,006,000,000 and 1,006,000,000,000 are two different numbers. I think you meant to say "1.006 trillion". Çya, M  ø  u  s  e  23:19, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

the picture
can we get a better one?

find onee and go for it--Footcandy 21:36, April 28, 2010 (UTC)

operation prometheus and operation torpedo were not pyrhhic victories
both battles were planned to be suicide missions. they were fought so that the UNSC could halt covenant attacks and buy valuable time to rebuild their fleets and fight back. a pyrhhic victory is when the loss exceeds the importance of the victory, which doesn't really apply to either because both operations saved many planets. CaptJim 03:21, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Actually a pyrhhic victory is defined as "A victory that is offset by staggering losses" both of the battles fit the description, and while these were planned as suicide missions, it doesn't mean that the outcome of these battles don't fit the description of a pyrrhic victory. If you want to call the two battles suicide missions, you are more than welcome to add that to the respective articles, but please do not remove the "pyrrhic" part, that is the outcome. Honor Guard <font color=#00416A>Spartansniper <font color="#000000">4 <font color="#000000">50''' 3:22, Nov 24, 2008 (UTC)

So wouldn't the entire war be a pyrhhic victory for the UNSC?Papayaking 06:29, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

commanders
john-117 shouldn't be listed under commanders, he only had about as much command authority as a sergeant. CaptJim 18:27, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

He was Chief Petty Officer of the Army theres only 1 of them thats as high as you get without going to officer school in the Marines.Sith Venator 18:32, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

but it's still an enlisted rank. he may have won the war for humanity, but he wasn't a commander. CaptJim 18:50, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

4 Ships?
it says that the "In amber clad" was one of 4 ships that tailed regret to instalation 05. when do we see 3 others?


 * Halo: Ghosts of Onyx. Two frigates and a corvette follow it to Installation 05. We don't see what happened to them. --  Administrator  Specops306  -  Qur'a 'Morhek   Honour Light Your Way!  21:35, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

2401
It says in the infobox that 2401 Penitent Tangent is still alive. Wouldn't he have been killed with Installation 04 2 blew and killed the gravemind? D1134 01:17, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

umm i think you need to freshen up on halo 2 becuase its status is at standby and didnt blow

Commanders
Master Chief, though a significant figure, is not a commander. He did not command troops or discuss strategies with others. He was a soldier who was effective at doing what he was told. Please don't add that again. Commmanders are commanders. Soldiers are soldiers. The 888th Avatar (Talk) 06:15, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Rate of Colony Destruction
I've calculated that with eight hundred colonies destroyed in a period of twenty-seven years, that's one colony lost to the Covenant every 12 days. Jeez! 29 colonies lost a year. Improved number - bah, a pox on my poor math skills. -- ' Administrator  Specops306  -  Qur'a 'Morhek ''  Honour Light Your Way! ''' 23:57, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Ships
Before the civil war, and durring it, didn't The humans destroy roughly 1000 Covenant ships? (98.210.46.212 04:32, 9 August 2009 (UTC))

War Financing
Ever thought how the UNSC had the money to finance this war? I think that after a certain point, they approached military and health industries and said "Look, unless you want to die, we need this stuff for free." That is the only real feasible idea as to how the UNSC could afford such a war effort.--Hypnocake 02:08, October 22, 2009 (UTC)


 * Or perhaps the UNSC is a somewhat Communist government, where military efforts and rations are dispensed equally among people. That honestly sounds much more feasible than assuming the world advanced to unification through Capitalism. Also, please sign your posts. Thanks. - DinoBenn says "Fight to the End,  Never Give In"  [[Image:S4.jpg|18px]] 02:07, October 22, 2009 (UTC)


 * But that would mean conscription, and as we see through Halo 3: ODST, recruitment was voluntary.--Hypnocake 02:10, October 22, 2009 (UTC)


 * That does not mean conscription. Communism means everything is dispensed equally. However, as this does not work all too well, a form of Communism, where instead of wealth, rations were dispensed equally among those in need, which would be next to everyone. People would conscript into the war effort, yes, by choice, but that is not a defining opossition movement to Communism. What I am trying to say is that is was kind of Communism, and otherwise Democracy. - DinoBenn says "Fight to the End,  Never Give In"  [[Image:S4.jpg|18px]] 02:14, October 22, 2009 (UTC)


 * I'd say the most likely is a kind of war bond system. During World War I and II government things were war bonds which were basically loans from people with a promise of a greater return at the end of the war. So the UNSC either asked private individuals and corporations to buy war bonds. A similar thing could be that when they bought materiel they would say to the company, "Listen, we can't pay you right now, but once we win the war we'll pay you back extra. And if we don't win the war we'll all be too dead for it matter."--Emblem 1.jpg<font color="Blue">Rusty <font color="Red">- <font color="Blue">112 04:21, October 22, 2009 (UTC)


 * Communism my ass - you remember this? As unlikely as it would seem to some people, the Earth government was, in fact, unified only a few years following a decisive UN strike on neo-Stalinist Koslovics. And guess what - national governments bonded into one international entity through an essentially capitalist system. The real problem lies in the evolution of finance capitalism starting 2200. A socially and militarily unified Earth would give birth to unquestionable reforms in worldwide economic systems as a result of internationalization. As private sectors have more financial freedom than state-owned associations, they'd also be more likely to develop high-tech weaponry at a possibly faster rate than the government would. That said, private corporations could be the basis of military research during the UNSC's colonization period. Come 2525 and the Covenant War, in order to hold on to fast-paced technological progress, the UEG would likely exert more control over private corporations in a corporatist manner (instead of downright confiscating their capital and assuming total control), thereby becoming the first in line to acquire military hardware. The illusion that the UNSC became a communist government after all the lead they'd pummeled these guys with, and also considering the fact that anti-communist countries like the US and other liberal democracies made up the largest part of the UNSC military, is more than irrational. Oh and DinoBenn - socialist republics in 1950 - 1989 actually held compulsory military service in a very high regard. How communism would work in a futurist 25th century world is up to speculation, but I don't trust it would differ that much from past Soviet military obsession. -- UNSC Trooper [[Image:unsctrooper_small.jpg|14px]] TalkMy Work 10:40, October 22, 2009 (UTC)

Covenant's First Costly Defeat
Why is the Battle of Installation 04 being put on a pedestal as "the Covenant's first truly costly defeat"? With all due respect to Master Chief (he did win the war after all), the Covenant's first real loss was at Psi Serpentis, where during one of the biggest battles of the war (over 250 human ships vs. 300 Covenant ships in two waves), Admiral Cole destroyed hundreds of Covenant capital ships by igniting a brown dwarf and for a split second creating an actual star.


 * The loss of Installation 04 is the Covenant's first COSTLY victory. The loss of battles on Human colonies were nothing in front of this, as the Halos have a very big valuable to them. - steven1098s (UTC), 21:49, February 7, 2011


 * Actually, I have to agree with the anonymous poster. Psi Serpentis is a feat that isn't matched until the destruction of Halo, and Operation: FIRST STRIKE.--  Specops306   Autocrat     Qur'a 'Morhek   16:00, 7 February 2011 (EST)


 * Perhaps it's referring to "costly" in the sense that they lost part of the array in the progress - ships can be replaced, Forerunner artefacts cannot.--  Fore  run  ner '' 16:16, 7 February 2011 (EST)

Unknown Arbiter (Halo Evolutions)
Where is this mentioned? If its a reference to The Return, then that Arbiter is Thel 'Vadum. --  Administrator  Specops306  -   Qur'a 'Morhek   21:46, January 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Reread the novel and it appears the user misinterpret.- <font face="Century Gothic"> <font color="#FF4F00">5 əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7 aŋk (<font color="#FF4F00">7alk ) 21:51, January 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * This Arbiter appears in Midnight in the Heart of Midlothian, although not outright called "Arbiter", it's pretty obvious in his description. - Black Mesa.jpg Halo-343   ( Talk )   ( Contribs )   ( Edits )  22:05, January 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Um, guys, when did we find out that there was an Arbiter at the Battle of Jericho VII?--The All-knowing Sith&#39;ari 23:38, January 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Halo - Interactive Strategy Game- <font face="Century Gothic"> <font color="#FF4F00">5 əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7 aŋk (<font color="#FF4F00">7alk ) 23:48, January 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * I thought we'd condemned that to the ash heap of non-canon products, considering that we have next-to-zero information from it on the wiki?--The All-knowing Sith&#39;ari 23:59, January 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Only because no Halopedian actually has it. The information, I believe, was recovered by an image of the board's rear from a Google search.--  Fore  run  ner  00:06, January 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * The only mentioned places in the Interactive Strategy Game are Jericho IV and Reach.- <font face="Century Gothic"> <font color="#FF4F00">5 əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7 aŋk (<font color="#FF4F00">7alk ) 00:11, January 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * I assume an Arbiter was sent to claim the Forerunner relic on Reach.--  Fore  run  ner  00:24, January 8, 2010 (UTC)

The starting date
The war is listed as starting on the 11th February 2525, yet the first battle of the war, the First Battle of Harvest, begins on the 3rd February. On top of that, the battles box has the Skirmish over Harvest included as part of the war, and it takes place on 17th January. So which of these 3 dates is the actual starting point.

CoalitionofIndependantRepublics 22:10, January 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Read this.<font color="#5D8AA8">外<font color="#9BDDFF">国 人 (<font color="#5D8AA8">7alk ) 18:03, February 18, 2010 (UTC)

Name Change
I think we should change the name of this article. Or even better start a new page after the battle of Reach. We should then call the new page Human-Covenant-Flood WarThank you taking time to listen to my post! 13:59, February 18, 2010 (UTC)!!!


 * It will stay the same. That is what it is called in canon. Plus, the the war was mostly between humans and the Covenant. The Flood only played a small part in it. SPARTAN-177 14:04, February 18, 2010 (UTC)

Brute Leader Halo Wars
Shouldn't that Brute Leader from Halo Wars be placed as a cammander like the others in Covenant leaders. You have Regret and that Arbiter who died why not him76.94.173.73 03:45, June 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * No, because he doesn't appear in the campaign. He may well exist as a character within the Halo Universe, but that doesn't mean he's a very important character in the war. --  Specops306   Autocrat     Qur'a 'Morhek   05:22, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

The Great War?
While I'm quite fine with referring to the Human-Covenant War as the Great War, and usually do, is there any canon source that calls it that? Because I'm not aware of one that did so --<font color=#FF0000><<LOMI, <font color=#CC0000>The Lord of Fanon. <font color=#770000>Praise My Name, <font color=#440000>And Behold All My Holy Deeds>> 22:41, September 20, 2010 (UTC)

Anyone? Please, I'd really love to know if we have a verifiable source for this name. -- Am I a Lion, or a Lamb? Or a Boy?  Saint o r Sinner? <font color=#777777>The Lost Books 17:04, 6 November 2010 (EDT)


 * It's been thrown about the place, but I doubt there's one specific source. Most likely some lost weekly update or something. Tuckerscreator (<font color="#008000">stalk ) 18:19, 9 November 2010 (EST)


 * The only place I've ever seen it used is here, and Halo Fanon. I'd say it's someone's pet term that they put up, and nobody ever got around to removing it. --  Specops306   Autocrat     Qur'a 'Morhek   18:37, 9 November 2010 (EST)


 * I think the term was used in some part of the advertising for Halo 3. Karl-591 19:17, 9 November 2010 (EST)

I see. So either it's a fanon-canon, if appropriate, title, or from the Halo: Believe campaign. -- Am I a Lion, or a Lamb? Or a Boy?  Saint o r Sinner? <font color=#777777>The Lost Books 18:01, 15 November 2010 (EST)

It was recently used in Petra, a short story that was part of the adjunct in the 2010 release of Halo: First Strike. -- SFH 11:06, 12 January 2011 (EST)

"Great War" is a non-static name; the biggest wars of a life-time are referred to by that name; the First World War wasn't even the only one of that name - there were also the Napoleonic Wars and the Ten Years' War between Spain and Cuba.--  Fore  run  ner '' 18:15, 14 February 2012 (EST)

How long?
Some sources mention that the Elites and Brutes ares still fighting each other, even after the end of the war on Humanity. It said that they were fighting at leat nine years after the Human-Covenant War in 2559. I could be wrong though.Spartan-08686 18:37, September 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * The Great Schism was still ongoing as of 2559, but the Human-Covenant War was declared over on March 3, 2553. The Great Schism is a totally distinct conflict. --&quot;Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have.&quot; -Thomas Jefferson 18:43, September 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, both the Evolutions story and the motion comic say "six years" on - I believe it starts at the beginning of the Great Schism, not the "official" end of the Human-Covenant War, so that would be 2558. But it doesn't look likely to end any time soon. --  Specops306   Autocrat     Qur'a 'Morhek   08:52, October 1, 2010 (UTC)