Talk:Energy shielding

I was pondering something while writing my most recent fanfiction, which will be finished hopefully by the release of Halo 3 for anyone interested, but I must repeat hopefully. How exactly do the energy shields accomplish what they do? Stopping projectiles, nullifying plasma charges, absorbing kinetic energy from explosions. Its all seeming very peculiar to me, and I would like some insight if thats not too much to ask. :)

I do have some thoughts on the matter, as I normally do on most things. Speculation mainly, but I do throw in a scientific fact every once in a while. Gives it some credit, doesn't it? ;)

1) Energy shields work in a work smiliar way to a field of electrical energy, which is not unlike a magnetic field in a sense of phenomena. A pulse of energy, which can be seen as the shield 'recharges' or more effectively put 're-establishes' itself, flows throughout the shield, ever perpetuating like a pendulum-effect. This shielded energy absorbs the impact and flow of Plasma, Kinetic dispersed energy such as a plasma grenade or fragmentation grenade's explosion, and physical projectiles such as bullets. The fact that I think it is an electrical or magnetic based system is because of the properties that they share with what the shielding in Halo provides. They both act in a vacuum and they propogate with finite speed, which is shown as how the shield cannot immediately re-establish themselves and need time to re-eastablish once the field of flow is broken. Yes, it's not canon, but it's a good guess. I think at least. Oh well, if you could understand that, please leave a comment so I can add you to the Smart List. :)

2) They are just magical that way, and thats good enough for me. Why over-complicate something when there's no need.

I had a third idea, but I think it merged its way into the first one. Thats strange, I should keep my ideas on a leash. Oh well. Have fun with that. ;)

Love,

A friend of a friend


 * User:CaptainAdamGraves

RE: Physics of Shields
I am afraid I must interject negatively to your comment.

I don't feel that shields are "capture" type technology, like pendulums that absorb energy and recharge. If so, shields wouldn't recharge from kinetic impacts. They'd just stay dead: most definately not the case. Does it mean that one that takes a direct plasma bolt that dies will have one's MJOLNIR armor's shields recharging after he/she dies at a rate faster than if the person had taken a little plasma rifle shot? DOes the extent a shield is lower determine how fast it pops up? In my experiences, I'm very sure the rate stays constant no matter what energy hits you.

I believe that shields are a projection of energized particles from several projector points, that have quantum spins and trajectories across MJOLNIR or Elite Exposure Armor that cancel incoming particles. Since plasma bolts appear to do more damage to shields, this means that the spins of these enigmatic shield-particles are more vulnerable to misalignment from energy bursts. When a shield goes down, I believe that the sparks across one's body armor are simply proximal bursts to restart a deflector shield: energizing pulses. When the particles are reprojected, the shield goes up again.

These shields are also molded by magnetic fields, I believe, to contour around the user's body armor. A surface tension of particles is probably maintained so that the shield doesn't propogate with infinite speed outwards in diminishing desnity away from the user: that'd drain the user's power sources.

Of course, none of this is canon.

And Captain Graves, I write fanon too...=D...wanna exchange?

Cheers,

 Relentless  Recusant  00:51, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Fact or Fiction
This is just me acknowledging that someone disputed some fact in the article, but didn't bother to tell us what. I read the article briefly, and found nothing that warranted the Fact or Fiction template, so I am removing it. If there really is something, then post it here.--Rot 2025 7.12.06

Energy Shields (disscusion)
The real thing that should throw people off is that the shield is designed to repel all matter it touches or all matter that touches it. Since that is the case when ever a Spartan jumps, 1000Lbs+ of pressure is put on the shield and should drain it, since a melee attack from an elite can take down the shield, and I don't think an elite can throw a punch with the force of 1000Lbs. Also note that when a Spartan holds a weapon in his hand, why doesn't the shield glow as he/she holds it. And if there is a gap either in the hand and feet area of the shield, it would give an opening that can lead to the fall(death) of the person wearing in the armor, it would also be very hard to hold things since the shield doesn't let anything through unless it is like the bubble shield which is suppost be of human origin, which is hard to believe since the brutes use it all the time and i still don't know how they got it.

The shields are also greatly dialed back around the inner part of the hands, and the bottoms of the feet. This was explained in Fall of Reach when the Mjolnir MK V was introduced, and allows the user to maintain traction on the ground, as well as enable them to interact with their environment without turning the shields off, though at the cost of less protection there, which is offset by the fact that the inside of your hand and bottom of your feet are two extremely hard-to-hit targets, even by pure chance. That means the shields aren't strong enough to repel the touch of the object/ground, and perhaps allow the objects through to be gripped by the actual armor itself.SpartaWolf 06:20, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

Shield Life
I have heard that after 15 shield depletions/recharges in halo 2, the shield stops working,is that true? Not that anyone will ever live that long anyway mind you.--Mac10&amp;Cheese 18:42, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I've never seen that happen, and shield drains are very common, I bet you would drain your shield 15 time on one of the longer levels, like Regret on the higher difficulties. -- ED ( talk )(shockfront) 04:04, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Thats just what i've heard,But it could be true.I mean you won't live that long in multiplayer.--Mac10&amp;Cheese 03:47, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Speculation
When full body shielding or non-visible shielding is struck, it seems to jump into place or at least show a deflection. Its as if the whole shield 'hardens' i.e. increasing in density in a manner that attempts to deflect incoming damage. Naturally, it is limited by scale, power supplies, etc.

Given that at least MJOLNIR shielding is derived from Jackal shield guantlets, that would explain it.

As for how the shields work, I imagine that it is composed of plasma held between two opposing magnetic fields. When combined with a motion sensor or RADAR, the incoming force is sensed by the system, and gives the largest amount of energy it can to attempt to deal with threat. Perhaps this is done via pulsing the energy to the plasma at a level that best deals with threat.

The specific reaction caused by some shields seems similar to what is seen in plasma globes, which have gases inside charged into plasma by electricity. The heat and attraction of the plasma filaments upon contact with the glass is cuased by the fact that the body is a conducting object, and that the plasma inside is constantly shifting charge and position due to internal movement and air pressure.

The plasma seeks out a conducting object, and the glass and the rest of the device in conjunction with your hand forms a complete circuit. Perhaps that is how the shield works; it reacts with projectiles and plasma in the same manner, since they would be conducting objects or gases.

Damage caused by heat and other factors would be dealt with via the plasma absorbing and dispersing that energy like a buffer. Naturally, any damage incurred would weaken the shield, as less energy can be supplied etc.

--Exalted Obliteration 02:27, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

RE: RE: Shield physics
I think the shields behave most like a magnetically confined field of plasma. This is somewhat like your idea, so I guess this could be qualified as expanding on your idea.

First a strongly ionized gas, likely hydrogen or deuterium is released and pulled back towards the generators by a magnetic field. It is released to the side and pulled inwards, causing it to orbit the generators, flowing around it like wind in a hurricane. The plasma is in a rather delicate balance, pulled in by magnetism and pushed out by centrifugal force in equal measure.

The plasma could be heated by an AC electric current, which would also help damage ballistic projectiles. When struck by projectiles or plasma, the electric field would be disrupted, so the shield could not recharge until it was reestablished. This explains why it has to wait until it can recharge and does not recharge when projectiles are passing through it.

When a round enters a shield, it is rapidly heated by contact with the shield, vapourising it while ionizing it. This disperses the energy of the round into a cloud of vapour that is pulled to the side and even more dispersed by the magnetic field that holds the plasma in place, nullifying the weapon's damage but cooling the plasma and removing some of it.

When a plasma bolt hits it, the electromagnetic pulse interferes with the magnetic field of the shield, causing a failure in the confinement system and releasing some of the plasma. The pulse also raises the pressure and electric charge of the shield plasma it contacts to where it is too much for the shield to handle, disrupting the delicate balance between the electromagnets and centrifugal force and causing the plasma to be lost.

The suits that use it already store deuterium and tritium for their on-board reactors, so there is no reason why they couldn't not use some of it for their energy shields as well. This would also mean while the shield is on the reactors use a tremendous amount of energy to maintain the shield and take a tremendous amount of fuel to recharge it.

There are a few problems with this theory:

1. A melee would carry right through the shield without so much as slowing down due to their massive momentum, the shield would not absorb damage but rather damage the weapon. This is not so in game.

2. A powerful projectile or any melee would cause the shield to backlash and burn the user, which does not happen in game.

3. Heat would do no damage to shields, in fact heated projectiles or fluids (such as the ammunition of spikers or flamethrowers, respectively) would be more vulnerable to shields than non-heated or cooled projectiles. This is not so in the games.

4. The shields would be less effective in colder environments, particularly environments where cold solids and liquids come into contact with the shield. They would burn more energy and loose it to the environment, raising the damage done by incoming projectiles and slowing the charge time. Yet, in places like sidewinder and snowbound you can walk in the snow without loosing power or leaving steam and pools of water in your wake.

5. Anything brought into the shield, such as stored equipment and weapons would interfere with it and be damaged. Explosives would be set off, incendiaries would burn, etcetera. The only way to get around this is to make holes in the shield, holes that simply don't exist in game.

6. The shield could not cover the bottom or sides of the feet because the ground would interfere with it.

7. It would not work under water, the plasma would be absorbed by the water as would the electricity. The shield would be drained instantaneously in a big puff of steam and could not recharge. Yet, the shield is unaffected by water in game.

8. The shield would glow at least faintly at all times, obscuring visibility, while creating a rather annoying buzzing sound.

It is worth noting all of this is likely oversight on the part of the designers.

I've been directed to here from my thread that I made on the same subject - you make some interesting oversights to the shields limitations, see if you agree with my theories here: http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=47558407&viewreplies

Thebigyeash 22:06, August 14, 2010 (UTC)

Bubble shield
I think the bubble shield shouldn't be in the human section. It is never stated if it is of human or covenant design. DatrDeletr 15:49, June 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * It has been stated, here. --Jugus (Talk  | Contribs ) 15:58, June 15, 2010 (UTC)

Speculation only
In the shield generator ship of the unsc we dont know much about but if it generates a shield and there is an example of the unsc shield ship over reach in the year 2517 then the unsc has had shield technology even before the covenant ever started the war on humanity. Maybe the unsc only had a limited ability to apply it but with more research and the covenants superior technology to reverse engineer thats why we may have some advancements in it.


 * As far as I'm aware, the ship in question was first seen as discarded concept art, and labelled only "Shield Ship." What might that mean? It looks like a hybrid between a frigate and an Albatross, unloading cargo and vehicles. Nothing remotely shield-like about it. We simply assumed that the "shield" in its name stood for shield generator. Then, when we saw it in Fall of Reach - Bootcamp, we accepted it ac canon without getting a canon name - is shield its function, or its name, or even it's class? Shield-class troop ship? UNSC Shield? We don't know. I think it was a little premature to name it Shield generator ship in the first place. --  Specops306   Autocrat     Qur'a 'Morhek   01:09, 6 September 2011 (EDT)


 * Actually, it was identified that way (Shield generator ship) in the concept art of HCE/H2. Since it's a concept, it's function should never be taken as concrete canon.— subtank  01:31, 6 September 2011 (EDT)


 * Really? My recollection must be wrong. Thanks. --  Specops306   Autocrat     Qur'a 'Morhek   07:56, 6 September 2011 (EDT)

Shield colours
Is there somewhere on the site that lists all the different colours of energy shields? I think it's something that should be included somewhere.--210.56.88.83 02:05, 19 January 2012 (EST)
 * As far as I know, there's nowhere on the wiki that lists their colours, though I do agree that it would be a good idea.--Soul reaper 11:46, 21 January 2012 (EST)

Armour colour not indicative of shield strength
Per above, the only time armour colour is indicative of shield strength is only when it is concerned with gameplay experience: in gameplay, Minors are given weaker shield and health properties than Majors, Majors having weaker properties than Ultras and so on. In canon, it would appear that all of the armour (regardless of rank, colour, position) have the same shielding strength; in Winter Contingency level of Reach, it took no more than a magazine from a M6 pistol or a MA37 rifle to remove the energy shields of a Zealot. This is the only time we ever see brass applied on energy shields in a cutscene (Halo Wars' Elites didn't have energy shielding for some unknown reason). So, take the Elites as an example, armour colour indicates the amount of kills they've achieved throughout their service and nothing more. — subtank   00:34, 5 October 2012 (EDT)


 * Well, in that cutscene those shields failed to flare when receiving melees (Sara Sorvad punches Jorge and Six punches the Zealot, yet there's no shield reactions then). Plus, looking closely, Carter actually starts firing at the Field Marshal too once he pushes Kat out of the way. And there's been several times in the cutscenes where shields haven't responded properly, such as Emile's charging faster than usual at the beginning of Pillar of Autumn, or why Kat's or all of NOBLE's seem to be down yet there's no shield scatter. Point being, I don't think it's fair to throw out all that data about shield strength just because one cutscene seems to suggest slightly otherwise. Tuckerscreator (stalk ) 02:43, 5 October 2012 (EDT)


 * To discuss the operation of shielding technology is almost impossible and cannot be realistically explained. Doing so will just end up with tons of theories.
 * It is possible that meleeing do not trigger shielding (novels might disprove this; avoid thinking about gameplay). Emile's shielding charged faster because he jumped out/landed first. I always thought that shielding is disabled if the individual does not have their full armour on: simply removing the helmet would thus disable shielding. Hence why shield scatter was not present in that cutscene. On the other hand, it is assumed that Kat did not engage her shielding system because she underestimates the gravity of her situation (echoing her fatal lapse of situational awareness as indicated in her performance report). The same could be said for the rest of Noble, but luck was not on Kat's side... so, headshot! Several things can be explained using cutscenes as a source of canon. On another point, it wouldn't make much sense for the Sangheili honour culture: an Elite could argue another to be a coward for having superior shielding and is not a honourable warrior because of such... but then again, everything about the Elite culture is big contradiction/mess/inconsistent/insert-synonym-here-about-authors-being-inconsistent as illustrated by the novels and short films. — subtank   08:07, 5 October 2012 (EDT)

Emile jumped just a second earlier. His shield still recharged in about two seconds. And there doesn't to be any good reason for why melees would not trigger shields; it's just a surrounding field. One could just as easily say that Elites take a "you earned these shields by your kills" approach, so I don't think it's a good idea to guess this way and throw away years of information for one guess. Tuckerscreator (stalk ) 13:21, 6 October 2012 (EDT)


 * Knew I should've checked that cutscene and not rely on an image before I posted that comment. Damn you memory! Anyway, as I said previously, any attempt to make sense of shielding is almost impossible and cannot be realistically explained, given the amount of description Fall of Reach has provided. I guess I'll just leave this as it is for now.— subtank   14:15, 6 October 2012 (EDT)


 * Reviving this interesting discussion. :)
 * I wonder if the shield is only visible when it receives enough force (that is, you apply force on it). Sara's melee on Jorge's armour was not strong enough to cause tension on the shielding technology; she's your average human after all. I would think that Emile's armor charged faster since he had a smoother terrain than Six when they jumped but this might be a bit far fetched.
 * I would think that that scene is canon since it is not affected by the game's difficulty setting or any gameplay settings: regardless of what difficulty you're playing, the shields of the characters in the game remains the same. Since difficulty settings is purely gameplay (and the fact that there is no such thing as "true canon difficulty"), it is safe to say that any content affected by gameplay won't (and shouldn't) be considered canon (like what we did with most gameplay content).— subtank   09:22, 21 October 2012 (EDT)


 * Noble Six, a SPARTAN-III, still punched an Elite Zealot in the face and nothing flared. Yet there had to have been a shield because if not, that Elite should have broken its face. The ODSTs in Halo 3: ODST and meleeing Marines, all measly humans, were strong enough to cause visible flares on Covie shields. Sure, they've trained a bit, but they're still well below the strength of Spartans; they need four melees to kill a Jackal! Lone Wolf's final cutscene also has Six fire an assault rifle for about 9 seconds without reloading despite a MA37's ammo usually depleting in 4. In that same cutscene, Six is also strong enough to punch straight through Generals' and Zealots' shields, despite that punch in Winter Contingency doing no visible harm to another. Point being, it's not feasible to count on the cutscenes to trump the gameplay every time. The two are both an informing source. Tuckerscreator (stalk ) 12:57, 21 October 2012 (EDT)


 * I'm sure punching someone from the floor would not deliver much force compared to when you're in a standing stance. You would need more room/space to throw what I think MMA fighters would call a "good blow". Does well to explain between the two cutscenes. And I don't think I need to explain about the ODSTs and Marines since that's purely gameplay: I'm sure military schools don't teach their militarymen to hold firm to your rifle and use a front-kick at your opponents. Minus the comical efforts. Energy shields seem to work in such odd way. The novels described it as a fully-sealed cover that separates the user from its environment. If this is true, then the Elites would have a hard time breathing since they are of similar technology. The games seem to abandon this idea in favour of what I would categorise as my very own guesswork. I'll just get straight to the point but this is, once again, purely guesswork: they activate only when it detects a particular amount of force (once it goes beyond a certain threshold) similar to the Onyx Sentinel's shielding system.
 * Refocusing back to my earlier question before we derailed into analysing cutscenes (did not intend to make that cutscene as my only proof: it was simply supplementary evidence), there is no proof in canon that provides anything on the Elite's shielding corresponding to the ranks. The origin of "colour = shield strength" originated from H1's gameplay content which is now treated as canon info, despite none of the novels or any other mediums making this reference. Gameplay content hasn't been the most reliable source of canon as we've seen countless times, such as the issue with the MA5B (now cemented by 343i in their MA5 article as to having horrible accuracy despite the novels showing the contrary). Occam's razor would suggest that this is just gameplay. The complex approach would be to argue "Elite culture dictates that the higher up you are, the stronger your shields" even when the novels showed none of this.
 * However, you do have a point about that Six's last cutscene. Perhaps "dramatic tension" can be used an excuse to ignore the assault rifle? :P — subtank   13:46, 21 October 2012 (EDT)

The reason why I'd stick with the gameplay interpretation of the shields is because, for the most part, it is consistent. It's stayed consistent through most of the games, and if Bungie or 343 ever felt like clearly stating that their shields' strength is only gameplay, then they had plenty of opportunities to do so but never did. There's much clearer ways of illustrating it than just tiny details that need freeze-framing on a cutscene. Plus, about the whole "lying down on the floor delivers a weaker punch", one of Six's punches in Lone Wolf is also after he/she's been knocked down on that ground. He/She's still able to punch the entire shield off a Zealot. Tuckerscreator (stalk ) 14:34, 21 October 2012 (EDT)

And the ODSTs in Halo: 3 ODST don't do the "kick melee". They use their fists, and the shields flare. Sure, Bungie had to simplify the NPCs' melee, but that's because (Doyloist) real Marines' close combat is more complicated to animate and (Watsonian) many of the enemies they fight are much taller than them, meaning techniques like strangleholds and wrestling are moot. Kicks deliver a lot more overall force than a punch, and cover more ground. Some military schools do teach this, for instance, in door-breaching. Tuckerscreator (stalk ) 20:11, 21 October 2012 (EDT)


 * That comment regarding military school was intended for only the Marines. The limited melee animation of Marines is not due to animation complexity but rather because short/quick melee animation works best to enhance gameplay experience for fast-paced shooters. That the reason why melee combos previously featured in the Halo 2's E3 trailer was abandoned (and it looks clunky). The ODSTs in Recon is excluded from this comment since they are simply remodelled/rescalled Spartan biped using the same features available in Halo 3 and Reach(fun fact: Recon was a testbed for several/certain features of Reach).
 * For the most part, it is pretty much consistent but that is only in terms of "armour color = shield strength". It's a gameplay language indicating how tough the enemy character is: echoing Shiek's criticism, "I probably wouldn't have made the Covenant guys so colorful. But that was a request from Jason. Shinier, brighter, more color and i'm like 'Dude, you're fucking nuts, man!'. This things like a rainbow, it's horrible. Obviously, it worked. He knows it from gameplay perspective what makes games tick."
 * The last cutscene is different from the one in Winter Contingency: in the latter, Six is pressed against the floor by the Zealot whereas he has much more space to throw a good punch in the former. Quite a nitpick but it provides an explanation (however weak it is). Then again, can I still wave "dramatic tension" flag for that last scene?— subtank   20:48, 21 October 2012 (EDT)

I don't think we can judge what kind of room Six had to throw a punch in those situations. Take a look at the two cutscenes here and here. In the Winter Contigency one we can't tell what position he's in because it's from his point of view. He could have had all the room he wanted to toss a punch. In Lone Wolf, we also can't even see how much room he has to punch the Zealot because an Elite's foot has covered that part of the screen. I say the Doylist reason the Field Marshall's shield dropped so quickly is not because they were meant to be that weak in-universe, but provide a justification for him running to save his hide. If Bungie had given him full strength shields in there, he would have fought longer, so it would have either seemed too implausible for him to not manage to down even one Noble member. It also would have increased the cutscene's length when there was still more gameplay waiting to come. Why wave the dramatic tension flag for just one cutscene but the other? Tuckerscreator (stalk ) 21:43, 21 October 2012 (EDT)

Also, recalling what you said about the Assault Rifle being more accurate in the books but 343 mistakenly saying it was really as bad as gameplay, then perhaps we're looking at it from the wrong direction? Perhaps it's the assault rifle that's stronger in-universe? Tuckerscreator (stalk ) 21:50, 21 October 2012 (EDT)


 * We can make that call. In Winter Contingency's cutscene, the Zealot is pressing Six against the floor, impaling him with its energy dagger. This is different with Lone Wolf's cutscene: by slowing down the frames, it can be observed that the Zealot that was "punched" away by Six did not manage to thrust its energy sword.
 * I am willing to throw down the flag for that one particular scene on Noble Six because the assault rifle Six used in his last stand had infinite ammo all of a sudden. That, and the fact that his body could withstand volleys of plasma despite not having the exclusive augmentation Gamma Company received. The Elites must've been so pissed, they sent waves to kill him. :O
 * Care to expand on the assault rifle? Not sure if we should since it would go out of the question. :/ — subtank   22:33, 21 October 2012 (EDT)

I don't think Six got impaled by the dagger. There's a quick flash of Six's left arm pushing the Zealot's arm out of the way (darn shaky cam!) and he has no damage when the gameplay resumes. And Bungie has shown willingness to have gameplay start with some damage for the sake of the story. Anyway, I don't really see how the stabbing/no stabbing of sword or dagger applies. The important aspect is how much room Six had to throw a punch and that can't be told in either cutscene because we can't see their full position. Even then, I'd willing to wager a "weak" punch by a Spartan that's been augmented, trained to death, and has strength increasing armor is still going to be much stronger than an everyman's punch even when lying down.

From the assault rifle angle, it fires for about 2 and a half seconds, a reasonable length. But then he receives the rifle back with exactly 7 bullets left. Proof of artistic license being invoked in its firing, just like in Lone Wolf? I'm not sure. But I think the assault rifle having been made stronger is the more reasonable and realistic answer, since we know their effectiveness gets adjusted for gameplay. Tuckerscreator (stalk ) 22:58, 21 October 2012 (EDT)