Forum:Domain overhaul - And what do you think?

Hi everyone,

As of recent the administration has engaged in a private discussion debate about moving Halopedia away from wikia, back to its original domain location, by the means of merging our content with halopedian.com. We've seen a number of reasons for this, which I will state below.

Pre-amble
For those of you who don't know about Halopedia in its early days, Halopedia was moved to wikia in 2006 due to server problems in terms of finance. Wikia has certainly provided us a stable host for a considerable number of years, for which we are all grateful for. However, with due respect to them, we feel that moving off back to our original site will bring us benefits that we can't have while hosted by wikia, for many reasons.

The why
As Porplemontage, the halopedian.com domain owner and operator has recently brought the site back up and running, the opportunity was seen to re-merge. Aware of what happened back in 2006 when he sent the wiki to wikia, he has been asked, and has replied with confirmation that he is positive he can support us as we currently are, based on our statistics, with the backing that he now possesses a much better server and server power in reserve.

So, what will change?

 * In terms of user rights, nothing . All users who have some form of user right (sysop, rollback, etc) will be guaranteed their rights on the other side. Additionally, this means that such members of our community will merge with their counterparts -- that us, users who may already hold rights on halopedian.com. But this will not have any negative effect on us as it is.
 * As our wiki will be independent, this means that any software updates or anything in the technical area will be handled by the administration, as opposed to a form of staff (in our case, wikia staff).
 * Pertaining to the above point, we will also have our own developer support, as I myself have seen to. Because things like addition of features, wiki software, etc would be developed only for the single wiki, it will be easier to base it on community input from that particular wiki. Therefore, community feedback and suggestions can be taken into better consideration for the developing in the technical area, which can effect just about anything in regards to the wiki.
 * Our articles, policies and guidelines will remain the same. Everything that we currently have implemented will be exported from here and imported to the new site. The move will have no effect whatsoever on any of the listed.
 * Elimination of most ads. As many of you know, wikia's income comes from the advertisements it hosts on its wikis. While a promise that halopedian.com will never utilize ads can be made, if it ever does, they will be much more sparse and only for logged out users.
 * Community-related: As the wiki will be an independent, standalone site, we can say that the community will be brought closer together. For the administrators, administrating the site will also be easier as they will have access to extra tools for further anti-abuse measures. These will not be used for the settling of disputes, for threatening of users, or otherwise for anything that goes against the administrator's code of conduct. Their use will only be for the security of the site, which altogether will be for the better for the community. As there will be a lack of outlanding-staff, the administration will, with any necessary assistance from developers, be able to handle queries ranging from the simple type that is often given by everyone, to the technical aspects. While not every admin will be able to help in all areas, all areas will be covered. This also will not make the admins higher up the food chain in any way than an ordinary user. Everybody is equal on a wiki regardless; admins are simply individuals that have extra trust.
 * Finally, I should probably mention about wikia's plans to enforce a new skin upon all of its wikis. Nothing wrong with that, right? While this is not the primary reason for the move, I can at least say that it has played as a factor. With due respect to the wikia developers of the skin, some of its changes are very sharp and dramatic. As I've already brought up with my colleagues, the 50% narrowing of article space, the complete redesign of the layout and the theme designer. I myself am part of the beta testing program, and with regards to the Wiki theme designer, after messing around with it for a while, I've found that it is very restricting and a somewhat ill-suitability for Halopedia's theme style. Moving over to our new domain means we move away from the new skin, and my sole personal opinion is such a move would be beneficial. Of course, this would differ from person-to-person as everyone has an opinion about it - similar or different, thus this reason has been kept as much of a minor factor as possible. On the topic of skins -- halopedian.com currently has the options of Vector (wikipedia's skin) and Monobook; we also plan to install Monaco when and if a move is made, so users will be given more options between their skin preferences.

Will we lose anything?

 * Attempts have been made to minimize losses as much as possible. As far as our unique features are concerned, the Social Profile extension has been successfully implemented along with the points system over at halopedian.com. The only feature that we will lose is the Blogs due to the code being unusable. While the forums can be used for anything forum-ish, we're hoping that we'll have an alternative as soon as possible.
 * All pages along with their history will be copied from here and imported to the new domain. This includes all articles of all namespaces, so nothing lost there.
 * Traffic: Wikia staff will not close down halo.wikia.com, for legal and policy reasons. While this means that traffic on the new halopedia will be at first, considerably less, this shouldn't be an issue once the dedicated community switches its involvement from here to the halopedian.com and the articles are implemented. After that's done, traffic there should increase to pretty much the same volume that we currently have here. To explain this a little, the goal is to have it promoted above the halo.wikia.com in terms of search results etc, while leaving halo.wikia.com as a simple branch-off with little activity. This in itself can be beneficial to both us and anyone who might pass by, which I can explain if anybody requests so.

So what now?
We, as a community, have come a long way. Everything's in its nutshell. Whether or not this will be carried out will largely depend on the input given out on this forum thread. We know that this is an extremely huge change, and expect that there will be a lot of mixed opinions about it and we want to hear those opinions from the community as a whole, as it is a necessity for a conclusion to be made. All input will be considered and if necessary, discussed. We've done a lot and feel we have done the best we can to make workarounds for issues that would arise from this. I'm happy to say that we can almost if not completely cancel out all issues we can foresee so far. The community is strongly encouraged to make any suggestions and/or questions for anything they are concerned about.

Regards,

-  Nìcmávr  ( Tálk  ) 12:13, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

Questions
''Have any concerns, questions? Anything not covered above? Feel free to ask here''

So do we keep our user accounts or do we have to make new ones?--Soul reaper 13:42, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

Where will we find the money to run halopedia.com? C F 0 0 1 14:59, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

What happens with the editcount? Apparently halopedia.org has an editcount of its own. What about the wiki editcount? I reckon it's going to become glitched? Are the halo wikia edits going to be removed or what?- JEA13  [ iTalk  ] 14:19, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * @Soul reaper: User account data will be imported to halopedian.com, so no, you don't need to make a new one.
 * @CF001: As far as I know, Porple imports finances from his other sites via ads. If halopedian.com has any of these, they will be much more sparse, and only for logged out users. Having stated that he is capable of hosting it, server operation is in good hands.
 * @JEA13: All of the wiki content will be imported from here. That includes the articles and their histories and by extension, editcount. Obviously it will add on top of the current editcount halopedian.com has at present, but that's no issue. - Major.png Nìcmávr  ( Tálk  ) 15:11, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * I mean my personal editcount. Assuming I have 4000 edits on this wiki and 9000 general, what happens after the move? Does my general get reduced to 5000? Does it stay on 9000, but stops counting further halopedia edits? Does it stay on 9000, and keeps counting halopedia edits as it did with the halo wikia? - JEA13  [ iTalk  ] 15:15, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * That includes personal editcount. Since we're exporting data only from here, yes, you will have 4000 edits on halopedian.com plus any edits you make there. - Major.png Nìcmávr  ( Tálk  ) 15:22, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * And so my general WIKIA editcount gets reduced to 5000? - JEA13  [ iTalk  ] 15:26, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, your wikia editcount remains untouched. As said above, the halo wikia site won't be taken down by wikia due to their policy. Therefore the move would not have any effect on any of your wikia settings of any kind. - Major.png Nìcmávr  ( Tálk  ) 17:23, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

I'm on the fence about this, I see and understand both sides of the spectrum and am in more incline to agree with a move, but one nagging problem will persist: Funding. How how does the staff plan on avoiding what happened the last time. I often see domain switches happen that end in disaster. And asking, or relying on the community for funding, won't always go as well as you plan, or think it will. And I am wondering how does the staff plan on handling a worst case scenario if it happens.

My other question is what happens to this place. You mentioned that for legal reasons you, and wikia can't just delete this wiki so what happens to it? do you lock every article and just move on or can you hide all of the content and replace the entire page with a redirect or a blank "we've moved!" page? Durandal-217 23:30, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * @Durandal: Porplemontage is handling all that. No exact details, but partly the income comes from ads on some of his other sites. While we don't know whether halopedian.com will ever need ads, if it does, they will be much less and more sparse and only for logged out users. Plus logged in users won't be forced to see main page ads, which again is a pro. Don't worry, financial concerns were the first to be addressed and settled.
 * As for the wikia site, we'll leave a note on the sitenotice to anon and logged in users about the move, which would direct most traffic to the new site. While the wiki site probably won't go totally dead, its like comparing Darthipedia on wikia which moved to Shoutwiki (just compare their recent changes activity). Dedicated members of their community moved while the wikia one is just edited occasionally by (mostly) people passing by - Major.png Nìcmávr  ( Tálk  ) 07:12, October 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * I would like to make a suggestion then If I may, if a move did occur, I would strongly suggest permanently locking all articles to avoid problems. Like Tony said the Halo community knows Halopedia at its current domain, and every time you type something Halo related on Google, Halopedia is the first thing to come up.


 * I won't lie though this is a very difficult matter to come to a conclusion on, its tough moving such a popular site off of a domain that won't let you remove your own site. I don't know anything about Oasis, but from the pictures I've seen, I'm not keen on it at all. At this point as Tony said we should wait and see what the future holds. If things get really bad. Make the move. Durandal-217 16:45, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * We can't lock all the articles because wikia wouldn't allow it (notice a pattern?). But there's there's ways around those concerns: Notes in the sitenotice and anonnotice, for example, to let visitors know that the "official Halopedia" has moved. The wikia counterpart would be a simple branch-off. Also, changing external links that link here (for example, Halopedia's template on wikipedia. Contributing factors, which will gradually direct our traffic and render halopedian.com the "official Halopedia". - Major.png Nìcmávr  ( Tálk  ) 16:56, October 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * Wow this domain really doesn't allow you to do much then. Durandal-217 18:32, October 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * Nope, which is sad. Wikia had the chance to please its community but sadly they decided to ignore them.-  5 əb'7 aŋk (7alk ) 22:37, October 3, 2010 (UTC)

What I want to know is: what exactly is Halopedia.com's capacity? 7,000 articles? 8,000? 10,000? pestilence   Phil,  pestilence!  23:05, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * FatalSnipe117: There's no limit to how many articles a wiki can have. Depends more on the space it has, but we have plenty of that over at halopedian.com so its not an issue. - Major.png Nìcmávr  ( Tálk  ) 16:05, October 4, 2010 (UTC)

Now what happens when we abandon this place, is the staff still going to remain here or is there going to be a skeleton crew? because if we leave this place who is to stop all the anonymous trouble makers from inserting the most retarded adolescent level BS into articles? nobody can delete this place, nobody can lock all the articles or remove them, it would be exposed to the elements. Durandal-217 19:18, October 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, IP addresses are not able to edit the wiki (wikia did that a while ago). The block log shows vandalism has gone down by quite a few points, and yes, staff have and will always have admin access here. Although we'll leave notices to visitors that "we have moved", they'll probably still be a small number of occasional visitors who might make a few edits. Again, since it wouldn't any longer be the "official" Halopedia, what little of that happens won't concern us much, especially when the volume of traffic to the new Halopedia increases to what it is now on here. - Major.png Nìcmávr  ( Tálk  ) 19:28, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

Not a really big concern, Nic. But will we still have access to #halopedia on freenode? Rico Croce
 * Of course. The IRC policy articles will also be on the import list, and we have an IRC app installed on the new wiki. Everything stays pretty much the same IRC-wise :P - Major.png Nìcmávr  ( Tálk  ) 21:05, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

I assume that the Halo Fanon wikia will remain as is. Therefore my question is, will it still be easy to link to Halopedian articles from Halo Fanon pages like users currently link to Halopedia.org? - TheLostJedi  13:27, October 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes. The linking system on wikis is universal. If you wish to link to something on halopedian.com, its precisely LinkTitle . Nothing changes in that respect, it works as an external link the same way it currently does. - Major.png Nìcmávr  ( Tálk  ) 13:40, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

Input vote
Below is the voting, as follows:


 * = In favor of moving to halopedian.com
 * = Not sure
 * = Against moving to halopedian.com

NOTE: Prior to voting, users should make themselves familiar with Halopedia's Voting Policy. Keep in mind that "Article Edits" are not the same as "Total Edits." The number of total edits is that which is found at the top of your user page. The number of article edits can be found on your Social Profile page, under "Statistics."

Support (18/3 sysops)

 * I'm all for this move, mainly because Wikia often changes things to what users don't want. Halo Fanon is a good example. Love is Noise  Love is Pain  Love is these blues  12:47, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Dude, do you even have 50 main space edits? pestilence   Phil,  pestilence!  18:36, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * She has 101 total edits and is an IRC op, she's fine. - Black Mesa.jpg Halo-343   ( Talk )   ( Contribs )   ( Edits )  18:52, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * I believe this will bring many welcome changes to Halopedia. My only concern is that the pages, which are over 5000 in quantity if I recall correctly, must be stored and transfered properly. The articles should be left up and running until we have secured them on the other site. Also, is it possible that we revert back to the old text editor we had before? The new one is far too complicated for someone who wants to get things done quick. - DinoBenn says "Fight to the End,  Never Give In"  [[Image:S4.jpg|18px]] 13:48, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Seems like the logical answer to solving this problem. Roy Mustang&#39;s mini-skirt 18:17, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Jack Phoenix Proxy vote via Roy Mustang's mini-skirt
 * - As it is, I've always been in favour of having Halopedia on its own domain provided it could be supported. Though just as a note for those opposing, re-read what has been written in the reasonings and re-consider it; we're not moving for no reason. While many of the reasons are administrative ones, these will also have an effect on the community, which seals their importance. Frunner: You're entitled to your own opinion about wikia's theme, but I have to comment on point no. 2: Nothing stays the same. I too had the same concern but Porple has repeatedly confirmed he is this time (unlike 4 years ago) capable of supporting the wiki. Even if that's not enough to convince you, then how about the fact that he is currently hosting another 3 sites, one being mariowiki, which is twice our size? As for getting our users there: If the whole community votes on this, they'll obviously be aware, dedicated users aren't just going to get lost in the blue. Should this pass, anyone who doesn't want to move is welcome to stay, because wikia will not let the site go down. And for those who are opposing/supporting because of the skin, or just think we're the only site on the brink of moving away, check this out: http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance - Major.png Nìcmávr  ( Tálk  ) 18:58, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * - I wasn't really sure at first, both sides made compelling arguments, but I've decided to support this. Colonel Grade One.png Col.  Snipes  4  50 Colonel Grade One.png 22:03, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * -  5 əb'7 aŋk (7alk ) 22:20, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * ---~ Mrepic ~ Talk to me  21:09, October 3, 2010 (UTC)-Mrepic 01:06, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Does not have 50 edits--Emblem 1.jpg  Rusty   -    112   02:08, October 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * Being a long time member, I support the move. And any idiot who seriously votes against this because of point or edit count should probably have their vote removed for blatant idiocy.
 * You are clearly referring to me here, I am the only one who talked about the editcount. I have to say: 1) my reasons for opposing have nothing to do with that, it was just a question. 2) I could have opposed for any reasons I wanted, including the editcount one if I wanted, and that doesn't mean I am an idiot, and 3) who the hell are you to request my vote be deleted. - JEA13 [ iTalk  ] 08:17, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Its a stupid reason to oppose such a proposal. Edit count ultimately means nothing - just like the hideous mistake that was points, blogs, and the quizzes. Your reasons for voting how you did are your own, as you said above. Also, did I request your vote to be removed? Nope - reread my initial comment.
 * ...AND AGAIN, the editcount was not my reason of opposition. Care to read what I say on my vote? That would be something I would happily talk about - JEA13  [ iTalk  ] 19:41, October 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * COOL! DARKSTORM99 07:03, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Does not have 50 edits--Emblem 1.jpg  Rusty   -    112   11:43, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * User does have 50 edits - actually has 75.
 * The count is ARTICLE EDITS, not total edits. Darkstorm only has 17 article edits, as can be seen at his social profile page here, under "Statistics."--Emblem 1.jpg  Rusty   -    112   21:46, October 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * - While the task is large, it will ultimately benefit us. The changes Wikia are forcing on us this time are too great, and we will suffer because of them. - Black Mesa.jpg Halo-343   ( Talk )   ( Contribs )   ( Edits )  12:10, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * - Obviously, the change will be huge and will have to be done gradually, but looking at Wikia's new skin and more importantly, the benefits of independence from Wikia, it's hard for me to find any good reason to oppose this. I believe the Halo community will eventually find the other site and get used to it, even if it takes some time. All I'm concerned about is the stability of the halopedian.com server, but then again, even Wikia has problems sometimes. --Jugus (Talk  | <font color="Gray">Contribs ) 16:04, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * - In my opinion the imminent skin change will hurt the wiki more then moving ever could. The new skin, combined with changes to Wikia's Terms of Use that prevent the administration from using CSS and/or JS the way they see fit to customize the skin, will completely change the look of Halopedia as we know it. I've seen the skin, the articles will look weird and the overall layout of the site will confuse many people. At this point it would be better for Halopedia to be on its own and in a place where the administration and the community decide how the wiki looks, a place where the layout and overall "Halopedia experience" is only limited by the imagination and choices of the community. --Jedimca0(Do or Do Not, There is No Try) 19:49, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * - I am a beta tester for the new skin. It's horrible. 22:08, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * - I have stood by Wikia for some time, and I really thought Wikia was a place where nothing goes wrong. Hah, boy was I wrong. When we move, I'll be happy to see the users have more rights than we have right now. I'm sick of constant advertising (I've seen many disturbing ads that I should not even describe)--<span style="background:Black;display:inline-block;height:16px;padding-right:4px;line-height:1em;position:relative;top:-3px;-moz-border-radius:0 50% 50%"><font color="Blue">Shade  00:42, October 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * SOUNDS like it could work, and I'd hate to see this wiki get forced into changes that people would hate. Tuckerscreator (<font color="#008000">stalk )
 * - strongly, even.Let's finish the fight.  Phil.e.   [Talk to me] 01:01, October 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * - After thinking this again, I believe that we'll have more profits if we leave. With an independed site, we'll be able to avoid the Oasis skin along with the rest of filth Wikia is planning to bring the next days and we will have much more options on creating Halopedia's outlook. Besides, we aren't going to lose anything apart from the blogs (and the useless polls & quizzes). And financing is not a problem.--<tt><font color="#7BA05B">Odysseas-Spartan<font color="#4B5320"> 53 </tt>OS53Seal.png 19:07, October 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * -Considering this carefully i believe moving would be a great change and will really help many many users Spartan Drake-114, 3:45, October 5, 2010
 * Does not have 50 edits.--Emblem 1.jpg  Rusty   -    112   19:51, October 5, 2010 (UTC)


 * While there is something to be said for staying put, and we all understand that as Wikia provides the server space to us free of charge, the only caveat being revenue generating ads for unregistered users (we after all live in a Capitalist Society, or at least a good number of us do). The Changes being foisted on the Wikia community seem to be leaning towards damaging the community as it exists now in a marginal effort to increase their own revenues.  If (and I haven't seen anything other than Oasis screenshots) Nicmavr and the other Beta testers are right and we're going to see dramatic changes in the wikia that affect it's readability and ease of navigation, not to mention a lot of hard work that many of us have put into creating templates and other items that will be seriously affected by the change, then wouldn't it be in the best interest of our Community to go somewhere that we have control of the changes, and where we as a community can make decisions to change if we deem it will improve the wiki.  Wikia, by removing the choice from us, has really made the decision for us.  Do we want a wiki that looks like everyone else or do we want one that is independent, has it's own voice and look and isn't just some faceless impersonal boilerplate?  -- Spamhammer   "I reject your reality and substitute my own."  20:25, October 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't often come to this site anymore but I will say that the Halo Wikia (Halopedia) has always been independent it it's own right and if I say so my self sets a indisputable standard upon which most wikis cannot achieve and if this move helps further this site individuality and community base then I, Justin AKA Gamer4life/ Ekgladiator/ Sub-Scorpio/ Trumpeteer, Give you my full and earnest support in the moving of this site, LONG LIVE HALOPEDIA!!! EkgladiatorTalk
 * Less then 50 mainspace article edits.

- We don't always like change, but sometimes it's necessary. Colonel DA 07:05, October 6, 2010 (UTC) I want whatever's best for this wiki, and this new format is bad for it. It makes stubs seem passable. If I have to sacrifice some convenience getting to the new domain then so be it. Frankly I'm worried about other gaming wikis as well, mainly the Metal Gear and Fallout wikis. I personally hope that they make the change as well, or that wikia returns to the original settings. Even if they reverted, Halopedia deserves a better host and the new domain would offer it just that. This wiki should be as great as the saga it covers, and anyone, anything, and any organization (except Bungie and their army of seventh columnists) who obstructs that should get out of the way. Without wikia we would never have existed and we must always remember that, BUT the same entity that created us is now hindering our true potential and we must stand firm against this threat to our existence. P.S. Merged pages don't get much love, so keep the MA37 as its own page lest it be neglected. TJbrena 19:54, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

Neutral (9/3 sysops)

 * I feel attached to Wikia, who've been very nice to us considering all we've given them is ad revenue. Moving would be a radical change for the whole community. Besides, everyone knows Halopedia as halo.wikia.com now, including major Halo sites like HBO, and we might lose our relatively good standing in the Halo community. On the other hand, being Wikia's guinea pig and subjected to all these various updates has been restrictive for the Halopedia community, and it may very well be for the good of Halopedia as a community to move. As of this point, I am undecided. --<font color="#4D56B1">Dragon<font color="#F28500">c laws (<font color="#4D56B1">talk ) 19:14, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Now, while some people have good reasons as to why we shouldn't move, if things don't work out on halopedian.com we can always move back. Second Lieutenant   Keith Johnson  [[Image:7thHelljumpers.jpg|20px]] com link 21:10, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * - As per Dragonclaws...
 * - As per Dragonclaws. Habit and loyalty are two things that cannot be overlooked or underestimated. Over the years, we've become accustomed to Wikia, and moving would force everyone to get settled in a new environment. That being said, some of the concerns expressed by the supporters are valid, namely the new skin, freedom of the administration, etc. Noblelogo.png / / <font color="MidnightBlue"> STRYKER    <font color="SteelBlue">[ <font color="SteelBlue">COM  | <font color="SteelBlue">LOG/M  | <font color="SteelBlue">LOG/S  | <font color="SteelBlue">AAU/HUM  ] 02:36, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * - There's a real split here. As Dragonclaws said, Halopedia is known for being a wikia. Familiarity and all that. Also, it's nice to have a single account over all Wikia sites. Of course, an independant site could be nice. More control over every aspect of the wiki. A tighter community is always nice to have too. I think I could be satisfied either way. -- DKong Talk Cont 02:45, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * — Like Dragonclaws said, the Halo community knows us for our current domain. While a switch to a new domain such as Halopedian.com would be a smart thing to do when the release schedule wasn't so hectic...this is one retarded time to do it. Halo: Reach was just released, The Fall of Reach comics are in full swing, and the Forerunner Trilogy is due out by the end of the year. A simple button press that transfers all of our content from one wiki to the other doesn't necessarily mean a simple transition. While i'm definitely up for a domain switch if the Wikia Staffers stand their ground on the issue and don't intend to hear out the dozens of high-traffic wikis, i'm still open to see the new skin and the time they've put into it. Who knows...maybe the majority who haven't had a chance to use it will fall in love with it. Until the community as a whole can experience the new changes to Wikia and formulate an opinion, this proposal is extremely premature.
 * - I'm on the fence about this. REALLY on the fence. *sigh* Since I'm so uncertain, I'll let you guys figure it out. pestilence   Phil,  pestilence!  23:00, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * - As with Dragonclaws and CT up there. Grunt minion22 21:53 midwest, October 3rd, 2010
 * - Let's just say I am using the new skin right now.. - JEA13  [ iTalk  ] 17:56, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose (16/1 sysops)

 * - halopedia.org failed to survive because it had too many articles (1,200-ish) and views. It simply became too expensive to run. I've tried Wikia's new skin, and it's not too bad. If you don't want it, it won't be forced onto you; just change your skin to monobook. Also, we have to think: "how many of us would actually move with the site?" We lost a lot of halopedians in the great move of 2006; how many will we loose in the great move of 2010?--  Fore  run  ner  18:14, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * - There's just no reason to move the site. pestilence   Phil,  pestilence!  15:04, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * - I see no reason great enough for such a big change. Reddy645 18:33, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * - As per Forerunner. Sith-venator Wavingstrider Fett helmet.jpg ( Commlink ) 19:32, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * As per JEA13. -- Lord Hyren 19:43, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * - As per Forerunner. Kronos101 20:12, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * I know half of you are going to kill me for posting this in the oppose area, but lets just count it as a reply to every single one of you: JEA: The Why section indeed describes what will change. The changes themselves are mostly the positive reasons which some of us are in favour of the move. Frunner: To answer your question, "how many users will we lose?" We won't be losing any users, because we now have the technical measures that didn't exist back in 2006. Times change, as do people. And Wikia's new Oasis skin as a matter of fact will be forced into anonymous users, and Monaco will be removed entirely for registered contributors. Besides, not everyone uses Monobook. FatalSnipe117: You are right on this, but why don't you go tell that to Wikia? I'm sure they're willing to listen to you and cancel the forced Oasis skin and let Monaco stay and allow admins to customize the site CSS and JS to their heart's content. The restrictions of Wikia's theme designer and their new version of Terms and Use regarding wiki-wide settings are a factor that contribute to the proposal. While I'm not forcing any of you to change your votes, the reason why I'm posting this is to clarify some of the confusing parts of the proposal that have caused questions or misunderstandings of its concept. If you read it again carefully (and that also applies to those who used "As per"), all of your arguments are addressed in either the changes or are answered in the questions section. - Major.png Nìcmávr  ( Tálk  ) 20:36, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * @Forerunner: Just adding to what Nicmavr has stated... The new Oasis skin will force articles to be squished, with 50% of the viewscreen unused/covered with advertisements. I don't know what screen resolution you're using, but in my current view, it's not pleasing to read an article and having advertisements being in your face. To put things into perspective, log out right now and try reading a long article in Halopedia (with ad-block program disabled). That's how annoying and unpleasant it is with Oasis. Additionally, the skin would not be customisable as Monaco. This means no more Halloween/Christmas/New Year/Product Launch theme and no more customised skin for individual users. All you have is a pre-set skin and a limited skin customisation.
 * To everyone, I would like to point out that an encyclopedia shouldn't be filled with advertisements around articles. Advertisements are annoying and distracting. Plus, no doubt in my mind that Wikia will keep on adding more advertisements into articles for more profit in future updates. The alternative skin, the Monobook, is severely outdated and does not reflect the quality Halo encyclopedia that is Halopedia. - <font face="Century Gothic"> <font color="#FF4F00">5 əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7 aŋk (<font color="#FF4F00">7alk ) 23:16, October 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * As per The Forerunner Dman1reallyrocks 00:26, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Does not have 50 edits--Emblem 1.jpg  Rusty   -    112   02:08, October 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * - This is the worst idea in the long, sad history of bad ideas, and I'm going to be there when you learn that it's even worse than taking dinosaurs off Isla Sorna. Commander Silver Leaf.PNG Kougermasters   ( Talk )   ( Contribs )   ( Edits )  00:54, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * - As the old saying goes, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." I simply fail to see how anything gained by moving will be worth the hassle. --Emblem 1.jpg  Rusty   -    112   01:34, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * - Same as everyone above. Plus, I like how Wikia runs. The Gamer 13 01:37, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Does not have 50 edits--Emblem 1.jpg  Rusty   -    112   02:08, October 3, 2010 (UTC)

Dark Neptune 06:29, October 3, 2010 (UTC) * - Halopedia is fine as it is. By moving it, we aren't going to earn anything but frustration. And, frankly, the change of the current skin is definitely not a real reason to remove our entire database to another website. Yes, the new skin is more than terrible and if they apply it to Wikia many people will be annoyed but still I believe there must be more reasons to make this change.--<tt><font color="#7BA05B">Odysseas-Spartan<font color="#4B5320"> 53 </tt> 17:33, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * - Time and again this conversation has come up when Wiki proposed a change. Last time it came up when the points/rewards/social system of wiki was planned, and look, we embraced it so much most of you want to take it with you. Infact, most of you seem more upset about losing whatever things you've acquired here. And the complaints about Ads makes my physically sick. We complain about them hosting ads on basically a massive server they give us, free of charge. We complain about them, just wanting to be able to pay to host our articles. There's other things we'd lose with domain changes. Reliable service, most our articles, i imagine there'd be quite a hassle with GNU-stuffelz as well as losing most of our traffic. Is it really worth basically losing everything 'just so we dont have to look at ads and deal with new formats'. Just adapt and overcome as we always have. Ajax 013 03:26, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * - As per Forerunner. Noblelogo.png //<span style="background-color:White; color:MidnightBlue; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px"> SPARTAN-A110  <span style="background-color:silver; color:white; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px">  talk    gallery  <span style="background-color:silver; color:white; -moz-border-radius-bottomright:10px; -moz-border-radius-topright:10px">  guestbook   03:28, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * How i see it, is that you guys failed in the past and all of a sudden after wikia picked up your pieces, held us the community on a reliable site that wont shut down due to money issues. that you suddenly make the whole community go back towards your old wiki? Why should we all its unfair! your reasons are total rubbish. sorry you have lost my vote. wikia has not screwed up for anytime soon and the community is much stronger here. moving to another domain will lose hundreds of good wiki editors. we gain nothing and fall back a few years making it back upto what it is today. Why Fix something when there is nothing wrong with it?theironpaw 03:31, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * From what I understand here, this seems to be the case of someone "abandoning his child", and 20 years in the future, the child becomes rich and famous, and the terrible parent who abandoned his child, upon seeing the child's new-found social status, wants the child back, for the sake of the privileges he can greedily enjoy. No. I am fine with Halopedia as it is. There isn't a need to merge, whether we gain or lose anything. That's my point of view. Flame me with you want, but I will remain firm.
 * There is currently nothing wrong with halo.wikia.com at the moment, so there is no point in another move. JimMy StAcKeR 09:43, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry Ody, but I just had to reply to your comment:
 * "By moving it, we aren't going to earn anything but frustration." - [citation needed]
 * "I believe there must be more reasons to make this change" - I take it that you didn't read this page? At least that's the kind of an impression I'm getting from this comment. Otherwise, clarify so. - Major.png Nìcmávr  ( Tálk  ) 17:42, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * "I believe there must be more reasons to make this change" Read it again. I don't consider the stated reasons above important enough to support this move. That doesn't mean I haven't read the proposal. By the way, why did you specifically replied to my comment when there are votes with nothing but the user's signature? Just wondering.--<tt><font color="#7BA05B">Odysseas-Spartan<font color="#4B5320"> 53 </tt>OS53Seal.png 17:54, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Your comment just caught my attention... while you're entitled to your own opinion, I personally don't see why none of the reasons above hit you as "unimportant/not importsnt enough", including the skin, considering we're not the only one proposing to move off. Just wondered why, that's all. - Major.png Nìcmávr  ( Tálk  ) 18:00, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * While I agree that Wikia has taken the wrong way (the upcoming skin is terrible, even more advertisements), there is no reason to move, at least not yet. Now, if Wikia indeed proceeds to some important and unpopular changes that will affect our overall experience to the site, then yes, there would be a serious reason for moving.--<tt><font color="#7BA05B">Odysseas-Spartan<font color="#4B5320"> 53 </tt>OS53Seal.png 18:15, October 3, 2010 (UTC)

19:57, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * - As per all the above users --<font color=#FF0000><<LOMI, <font color=#CC0000>The Lord of Fanon . <font color=#770000>Praise My Name , <font color=#440000>And Behold All My Holy Deeds>>
 * - I would have to agree with both Forerunner and FatalSnipe too. 10:20, 5 October, 2010 (UTC)
 * - As per Forerunner. Please don't do this.
 * - As per Forerunner. There isn't really enough reason to go through a potentially frustrating move-between. I say nay. [[Image:Noblelogo.png|27px]] GySgt. Gonzalez   -Remember   Reach!-  00:45, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

Discussion & Comments
Discussion relative to the proposal goes below here

Other wikis are considering a move to shout wiki so maybe that could be something to consider. That way our accounts can still be linked to other wikis registered to it. Plus it's set up the same way as the current wiki is.--Soul reaper 13:42, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone here ever heard the term "If it ain't broke, then don't fix it"? I'm just giving some input. pestilence  Phil,  pestilence!  15:17, October 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * Wikia prefers to ignore it. Looking at the condition of Halopedia, it's breaking down slowly....- <font face="Century Gothic"> <font color="#FF4F00">5 əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7 aŋk (<font color="#FF4F00">7alk ) 23:17, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

But there will be Wikia changes which will see certain things REMOVED, such as the shoutbox.

For more information on the pros and cons, see WoWWiki's Moving out of Wikia Proposal.- <font face="Century Gothic"> <font color="#FF4F00">5 əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7 aŋk (<font color="#FF4F00">7alk ) 23:21, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

I don't want sound pompous when I say this, as I have no idea if you have or haven't done this yet, but why don't you just ask Wikia to give the admins a higher degree of freedom? We are, after all, one of their largest and most viewed Wikis, and should have some say in what we do here. Tell them that you are ticked off with the changes they are doing here. Let them know that the community really wants their freedom. Let them know that the new skin SUCKS. Let them know that they've initiated a nose-dive. Anyways, not sure if you've come to that simple conclusion of communication, but you need to at least try before we do anything. pestilence  Phil,  pestilence!  00:30, October 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * The Administration Team has contacted Wikia Staff about the skin/system update and asked the wiki to remain free from the skin, and they kindly replied with a big no. Even WoWWiki, also one of Wikia's largest and most viewed wikis, is having the same treatment like all other wikis. There is no exceptions and it is inevitable. Trust me when I say this, it's not about the community that counts; it's all about the ka-ching!... - <font face="Century Gothic"> <font color="#FF4F00">5 əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7 aŋk (<font color="#FF4F00">7alk ) 00:38, October 3, 2010 (UTC)

Everyone who is voting in favour of the move seems to be assuming that the current Wikia Halopedia will just give up, roll over, and slip silently into the night. But as you yourselves said, the Wikia version of the site would continue to operate. What if some of the users decide not to abide by your decision and follow you to the new site, but rather stay with the Wikia Halopedia? Well then we’d have two competing Halopedias, dividing the attention and efforts of Halo fans. How can that be considered good for the community? I personally will respect the decision which is made, and continue to be a member of Halopedia, no matter where it may be. Others however, may not be so conciliatory. Hell, this very debate itself has the possibility to become very nasty, and rip the Halopedia community apart.--  Rusty   -    112   05:12, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think I will address Subtank's point here regarding the new skin: Both her and I are part of the beta testing so we've already experienced it to give you input. Many of the articles look squished, the theme designer is too restrictive. The new Terms of User are also very restrictive, global changes are no longer allowed. Mind, maybe I should have left this until 6th October, when all of you will have a chance to try it out in your preferences. Rusty; you're half right. The point is that if the dedicated community supports a move, we will do it and they would follow. If a large percentage opposes, as it is at the moment, the move simply won't be done. That's why we're seeking community input. But honestly, I can tell by the way many (not all, many) who have opposed have done so simply because they saw the other oppose votes, without even fully/properly reading the proposal to digest the facts, and jumped to their conclusions. Loss of traffic, loss of edits (lulz), "no real reason"... all of those are addressed in the proposal. In my opinion, those in the neutral section are the ones making the most sense in terms of arguments against the move. - Major.png Nìcmávr  ( Tálk  ) 07:12, October 3, 2010 (UTC)

@ Nicmavr, "Dark Neptune" Summed up exactly what you are doing now "From what I understand here, this seems to be the case of someone "abandoning his child", and 20 years in the future, the child becomes rich and famous, and the terrible parent who abandoned his child, upon seeing the child's new-found social status, wants the child back, for the sake of the privileges he can greedily enjoy."

- Dark Neptune

and yes most of us have read what are the changes but all i see is that you have no real Hardcore reason to move its more like your complaining about the size of the page and squished articles, thats not a big deal its Not like they are booting us from the site in fact no threat has come to us that we have TO Move in fact everything is perfectly fine. theironpaw 07:49, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Correction: the child wants to go back to its father, not the other way round. Quotes aside, again, the reasons are written above, nobody said they were "hardcore". And as for the skin, you're 3 days away from trying it out yourself. Opinions vary from person to person, if you like it, no one's forcing you to leave. But frankly, I just think its too restrictive (if you haven't seen it yet, I suggest you check it out), and yes, I can tell you that from now. Allow me to point out that some of us in the support section, specifically myself and Subtank (she did a nice job of summing stuff up) are part of wikia's beta testing, and have thus already experienced it admin and user-wise. Its not the squished article's on their own. Many of our articles have infoboxes and/or large images which cramp everything up, and that is a big deal. - Major.png Nìcmávr  ( Tálk  ) 08:55, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * And the father was lost at sea. He didn't abandon anyone out of sheer neglect. --<font color="#4D56B1">Dragon<font color="#F28500">c laws (<font color="#4D56B1">talk ) 19:03, October 3, 2010 (UTC)

Re-outlining
I've decided to write this up to outline the proposal's concepts, gains, losses, etc in a simpler way for those of you who may have misunderstood, judging by what you reasoned in your (not necessarily opposing) votes:

Concept
 * Moving Halopedia off wikia and its current domain (www.halo.wikia.com) to its new, independent domain (www.halopedian.com). How it would be done: An exporting tool allows us to export the wiki's content (articles of all namespaces) in the form of an xml dump file, which would then be imported to the new wiki, with an importing tool. Don't be thinking that we'd manually copy every article, or we just wouldn't go with a move-off. We have tools, some of which we didn't have back in the old days, which make things a lot more simple. Moving everything is a lot easier than some of you might think.

Gains
 * Better control; Software, updates, new features and such will be handled by the local admins. Admins will allow or deny new features, updates, software, etc based on input from the community. In our current state, local community opinions pretty much no effect on wikia's updates, because all updates and new features are enabled globally, on all wikia wikis.
 * Developer support; halopedian.com will have its own specific developer support working for the standalone wiki, and pertaining to the above point, in co-operation with the administration due to its independence nature. At our current state, our local community cannot give as much voice on wikia's updates because they implement them globally, on every wikia wiki.
 * Reduction of ads; while there's no promise that halopedian.com will never have ads, if it does, they will be much less of them, and only for logged out users and no force upon the logged-in ones to have them on the Main Page, which makes a good plus.
 * Wider skin choice; for those who dislike wikia's new skin, halopedian.com currently has two skins enabled; Monobook and Vector, and plans are to have Monaco installed as well. As well as retaining the look we've all got used to over the months/years, we would have more options. Vector specifically, is a good skin for those who are experienced wikipedia editors.
 * Security and maintenance; the independence of the site will allow the administrators access to extra tools which they don't have on Wikia Halopedia. This means that admins (being the Wikia staff equivelent on the new site) will be able to handle security or maintenance related requests of a wider range than we can now. The advantage that this brings is that it is always better to be able to consult your local administration about just about anything if possible, rather than taking it to an outlanding staffer (who also has more wikis to handle than just your own).
 * Appearance; wikia's new skin will ultimately restrict our wiki's theme as much as it could ever do. As you see Halopedia in its theme (that is has always had), that will be gone when the new skin rolls in, and admins will not be allowed to customize the site's global CSS and/or JS. That also means we will no longer be able to make up themes for events like product releases, Christmas and Halloween. For those of you who dislike the new skin, the move will "save" Halopedia from this restriction. With the new skin and its theme designer, the only things you have are preset themes and limited customization, nowhere near able to make up what themes I mentioned above.

Losses
 * The blog features: Due to the code being unusable, the blogs will not be able to be installed on the new wiki. As someone who rarely uses this feature, in my opinion, isn't really a big deal when you think about the advantages. Plus, the blog system has historically suffered a lot of abuse, and to this day there are countless blogs lying around in the database that go against the guidelines and should be deleted, but haven't due to their vast numbers. Even with that said, we'll be looking into alternatives for this loss, while forum-ish things can be written on the site's Forum: namespace.
 * Other than that, that is (as far as foreseen) the only thing we cannot take with us. We've done (and are still doing) what we can to minimize the losses as much as possible.

What stays the same
 * User rights; as I've said above, anybody who holds a form of rights (sysop, rollback, etc) will be given them on the new site upon moving in.
 * Edit count: All articles in every namespace will be imported to the new site. Because the histories will also be imported, so will every user's edits.
 * Social Profiles: The social profile extension, unlike the blogs, has usable open-source code and has in fact, already been installed on halopedian.com, along with the points system and has various bug fixes due to being an updated version. Users will be able to use it in exactly the same way they currently do.

Additional comments
 * While this is indeed a big move, it is not as hard to make as it seems. When you think about it being a success, we will have just about everything we currently have; those of you who are concerned we will lose traffic: Yes, at first this might be true, but we also have plans to solve that issue. External links pointing here (ie. Halopedia's template on wikipedia) will be changed to point to the new site. Notices will be left on the sitenotice and anonnotice (for anonymous users, which largely makes up our traffic). As the articles become implemented, activity on the new wiki rises, the site will become promoted on search results. Sure, the world might know us as a wikia wiki; that doesn't mean that can't be changed. Its a gradual, but possible move. And on the topic of wikia's skin, we're not known to be cloaked in it, either. Appearance-wise, if we move, we will be know as the Halopedia we've always been known as (as Jedimca0 pointed out). For those concerned, yes, this is a big move and yes, we know it will not happen in one second, its all gradual but not necessarily with a very long/extended period. However, I'd like to re-assure you all once again that its a lot easier than it seems, but ultimately, it will only be done if its given the support it needs. - Major.png Nìcmávr  ( Tálk  ) 15:45, October 4, 2010 (UTC)

Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.  Kougermasters   ( Talk )   ( Contribs )   ( Edits )  23:59, October 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * Corruption? Never heard of it.- <font face="Century Gothic"> <font color="#FF4F00">5 əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7 aŋk (<font color="#FF4F00">7alk ) 16:53, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

I'm not pointing fingers at anyone in particular, and I'm sure many of you have good, logical reasons for opposition, but what I'm seeing here is that most of the opposition seems to be more grounded on emotion rather than reason. I think it's because many tend to fear change itself instead of actually thinking about the matter. Some oppose this because of something that happened years ago and that's understandable. What people should understand is that this is a different case than back then: as Nicmavr has made clear, we now have a lot better tools at out disposal and basically, all that would change to the average user is the domain name. Now, if we stay at Wikia, a lot more will change. We'll have a new, impractical skin, a lot more ads and constant (not always beneficial) updates forced on us. Complete independence alone would be a good reason to move. --<font color="MidnightBlue">Jugus (<font color="Gray">Talk  | <font color="Gray">Contribs ) 18:32, October 5, 2010 (UTC)