Talk:Carter-A259/Archive

Phonetic Alphabet; Sierra, SPARTAN and S
This is here to clear things up, the military (and many other commercial companies) use the Phonetic Alphabet for making sure that letters are correctly received (Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Delta, Echo, Foxtrot, Golf ect) Sierra is for S, which proven in the halo 3 introductory cutscene, means SPARTAN. (seriously guys didn't we go through this before?) Kippeth 13:24, December 13, 2009 (UTC)

Wtf? Seriously? Just because we generalised call sign Sierra means Spartans?

"This is Sierra-259"

- From the trailer

First of all, it is just a call sign. It could be used by other units of the UNSC, not only Spartans.-- 4 scen  20:04, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Sierra = S in the military alphabet-any unit whose name begins with S will be Sierra something Molotovsniper 21:58, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

"You've got Spartans on the ground sir. We're not going anywhere."

- S-259

He's a Spartan. But I'm more concerned about which class he is - since when was there a 150 limit? There were more than three hundred candidates - perhaps the numbers were given before they were selected? -- ' Administrator  Specops306  -  Qur'a 'Morhek ''  Honour Light Your Way! ''' 01:38, 2 June 2009 (UTC)


 * 300 figure is wrong, as pointed out to me by LOMI. --  Administrator  Specops306  -  Qur'a 'Morhek   Honour Light Your Way!  21:19, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

It does say "We're not going anywhere" not they so he has to be a Spartan 02:23, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

namee
strange...spartan-259, spartan f-259....very odd indeed. SPARTANF-259 21:20, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Gamma Class
I think it is a mistake to assume that these are Spartan IIs. The sierra number designations most likely means that these are Spartans but third generation, specifically members of Gamma Company. I always assumed that Spartan II designations stopped at 150 because that was the original number of potential canditates for the program. And if I remember correctly Ghosts of Onyx states that there are 330 members of Gamma Company, so to me Sierra 259 and 320 would naturally make them members of Gamma Company.

Correct Spartan II's designation only went up to 150. Spartin III has many, many partisipants therefore it would seem to me these would have to be Spartan III's. This would also say to me that the gameplay will involve alot of stealth, and that it will be possibley ( not neccisarily) a squad based game. This would also make sence in the fiction because Spartan III's where sent on suicide mitions, this would also mean that the mission they where sent on would be a septerate storyline from first strike, describing the Spartan II's servival.

~MBSlim


 * First of all, spellcheck. It will not harm your mental state. Secondly, SPARTAN-IIIs utilise a different system where they would go by SPARTAN-(Company Letter)(Number). For example, SPARTAN-B210 would be a SPARTAN-III from Beta Company number 210. Secondly, it is unlikely that these Sierras are SPARTANs. Sierras, based on my civilian knowledge, is a normal call-sign for any unit in the military and should not be generalised to a specific force. Now, that said, it is likely that Sierra-320 and 259 are Pelican units, in my opinion. Lastly, wow... spellcheck... you can read this now, can't you? -  5 əb'7 aŋk (7alk ) 21:59, 10 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree that Sierra-320 is more likely a non-Spartan, but I have to disagree on Sierra-259. He says, in the trailer, "This is Sierra 2-5-9. You got Spartans on the ground, sir. We’re not going anywhere." Implying that he is a Spartan, and that he's sending his forces to help the Reach ground campaign. So 259 is almost confirmed to be a Spartan - I'm not sure which Class or Type he is (I, II or III, Class I or Class II, etc), but he is a Spartan. --  Administrator   Specops306  -  Qur'a 'Morhek   Honour Light Your Way!  22:46, 15 June 2009 (UTC)


 * He cant be a Spartan I, because the first Spartans were the Greek ones.

No Spec, you are incorrect on that, the codename given to those associated with Project ORION was SPARTAN-I. Orion paved the way for the next group, which were the ones who labeled themselves "1.0s". That was scraped once Halsey laid out the plans for S-II. Labeling someone as a SPARTAN-I would be referencing ORION. Durandal-217 07:34, 17 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Sorry about that, someone edited my post and inserted that incorrect information. I know full well what an S1 is, and I wish people would stop placing their opinions in the middle of someone else's statement. It entirely misrepresents them. --  Administrator  Specops306  -  Qur'a 'Morhek   Honour Light Your Way!  02:16, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

back to spartan threes, even if they were they're (and they weren't even created until halo 2-3 events), they were top secret and wouldn't practically wave a flare over they're head for UNSC (and possibly covenant) forces yelling "look at us, were the ultra secret S3s!!!", would they?Papayaking 04:41, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * // Guest Comment (Claudio)


 * I would buy that both Sierra-320 and Sierra-259 are Spartan-III's or II's; III actually seems somewhat probably because Bungie has suggested Halo Reach will be the final Halo shooter they personally make, and they probably would be eager to exploit the Spartan-III's before the end. I doubt they are Spartan-I's or 1.1's, as they probably would not merit the Sierra tag (though, yes, they could just be receiving it as a normal application of the term Sierra) and they are not as marveled over as the II or III's.  However, it is also probable that the Spartans in question (because they obviously are Spartans; Bungie would not create a trailer to strongly suggest Spartans and then not bring them into the game, and as someone else pointed out 259 refers to himself as a Spartan) are II's, because of their rather adult voices (though the III's could have matured vocal facilities due to the Augmentation) and because (in an interview with Bungie linked to in the main article) the game is referred to as squad command without the baggage (inferring that you don't have to be so worried about your squad mates, ergo they are very powerful, ergo they are most likely Spartan-II's).  So, in conclusion, 259 (and almost definitely 320) are either Gamma class Spartan-III's or simply Spartan-II's, though it is never mentioned that the Gammas were present at the battle of or glassing of Reach (in which case, they probably all perished).  They had to go somewhere, though, or they would have been prominent in the Battle for Earth during Halo 3.


 * Oh, and to Papaya (please use the correct *their*, it was kind of distracting), the initial Alpha Spartan-III's began sometime in 2531, I believe, long before the events of Halo 2 and 3, and even the Gamma class were in operation sometime around then (remember, Reach falling is what led the MC and The Pillar of Autumn to the first Halo ring). Also remember, the Covenant already know about Alpha and Beta companies... and it's just a trailer, it needed to be dramatic. Don't take it all as direct canon.  Halo has been known to be a tad unrealistic in the past.

Grrr....I don't need spelling corrections from an anonymous, I find it hard to believe my little spelling error is 'distracting'. But yes, you are right about the other stuff mostly.Papayaking 03:17, September 30, 2009 (UTC)


 * //Guest Comment (Claudio)


 * Pardon, it's been a long while since I've been a n00b; I'm used to fixing spelling errors left and right, with impunity. But I must ask you, what is the "mostly" for?

I'm going to forget it sounded like you called me a n00b (SOUNDED, I could be wrong). What I meant by 'mostly' was that I don't know everything, you might be wrong about something, so I didn't want to say "You are completely right".Papayaking 22:51, October 1, 2009 (UTC)


 * //Guest Comment (Claudio)


 * Ahh, I'm sorry for the confusion; I was calling myself a n00b. I'm not used to being new anywhere, so I didn't think twice about correcting your error and didn't realize you'd think, "Who does this idiot think he is, coming in here and saying things like that?".

Ohhh, sorry about that, and just noting, but if you're new, the correct term is 'Newb', n00b would be if you came on here with the intention of being annoying and stuff like that.Papayaking 22:43, October 2, 2009 (UTC)


 * //Guest Comment (Claudio)


 * Thanks very much (where I come from, the forum is ranked with the lowest of the low as super n00b, and I just adopted the spelling for myself). So what do we do about trying to get the article changed to say that Sierra-259 is most definitely a spartan (though it is unknown what kind)?

1. I would recommend making a profile on here, actual users are usually more respected and therefor answered more and such than anonymous people. 2. While all of you do make good points, I have to say I think that we shouldn't say hes a spartan just because of the sierra thing, it could just be a call sign, though he DOES say "Were not going anywhere." does make it sound like hes a spartan, it could possibly mean something else, like he and other people won't leave the Spartans behind or something, or perhaps hes just WITH a few Spartans (like they rescued him or something). But where I'm going with all this is that I don't thing we should say hes a spartan quite yet, at least until it's confirmed.Papayaking 01:19, October 3, 2009 (UTC)

Also, it's impossible for them to be Spartan 3s. Why? Because 1. They weren't even CREATED until Halo 2-3 events, and 2. They were ultra secret, they wouldn't announce themselves over COM, not to mention they were sent to high value targets, and the battle of Reach was unexpected and had to many people, therefor it would be near impossible to keep them secret. What I'm saying is, that due to his number and all the points I made of why he COULDN'T be a Spartan 3, it seems very unlikely hes a Spartan at all, so I think we should remove the name SPARTAN-259 name.Papayaking 01:27, October 3, 2009 (UTC)


 * The S-IIIs were created before Halo: CE but your other points are very valid.Though I do have to disagree but him not being a Spartan but hey, everyone has their own opinion. SPARTAN-177 01:32, October 3, 2009 (UTC)


 * Guest Comment (Claudio)


 * I'm not at all saying the fact that he calls himself Sierra-259 makes him a Spartan, I'm just saying that because he refers to Spartans and immediately then groups himself in by saying "we", he is obviously one of them. Yes there is the possibility that he is a support or recovery team for the Spartan forces on Reach, but Bungie wouldn't make such an obvious reference to him being a Spartan just to later say he isn't one.

I know, I'm just saying there's too much evidence that COULD mean hes not a Spartan for us to say he is one for sure, the above stuff is just too possible for us to just assume hes a Spartan, so I'm going to make a vote: Who wants it to say Spartan, and who want's us to change it to Sierra-259?Papayaking 02:03, October 4, 2009 (UTC)


 * Guest Comment (Claudio)


 * I vote for the Spartan (though you guys probably don't care, as I am an anonymous), even in lieu of the canonical argument that he is a Spartan, Bungie wouldn't make it so obviously to the fans that he is one and then leave the vast majority of them clueless and confused by making him a Pelican commander.

He is probadly a SPARTAN-II because the person who trainend the SPARTAN-IIs said he was going to train more.--Heroicpotatoe 21:53, December 16, 2009 (UTC)

Pelican?
If Sierra-259 is a spartan, why was he speaking in the 2nd person when referring to the spartans? Aside from the name, this person appears to be a Pelican rather than a spartan. --Person122 17:19, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I'd like to note that Pilots have their own designation, ie."Foe Hammer". -- Fore  run  ner  17:59, 22 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I think the user is referring to the Pelican's call sign (For example, Echo 419), not the pilots... and I strongly agree with the user .-  5 əb'7 aŋk (7alk ) 18:59, 22 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Much agreed. This could also be the same for Sierra 320 from the same preview. --Rear Admiral Jacob Rathens 06:20, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

If he IS a Spartan, I think it is likely that he is from the first class and not a second
The reasons behind Sierra-259 likely being a Class-I Spartan-II rather than a Class-II is because while 150 candidates were originally decided upon via genetic screening procedures, the full details of the Spartan-II selection process is never explained. Dr. Halsey states during her visit to Eridanus 2 that the project consists of at least three phases, and states that they are currently in the second. These "phases" are also never explained aside from the genetic screening and the in-person inspections.

It makes sense for Halsey to garner a larger selection of subjects from which to test for genetic superiority, because even in modern day medical trials and experiments, the number of patients is overshot before official screening is done and then further dwindled for proper candidacy, and I experienced this first hand in an optical procedure study that I was cut from.

A more definitive piece of evidence, however, is a huge plot device that is prevalent with Dr. Halsey's characters from the beginning of The Fall of Reach to the end of Ghosts of Onyx. Through TFoR, Halsey's motives in the S-II project begin to turn on her, and her civilian emotions and morality of humanity begin to return, which quickly works against her, causing a great measure of guilt to fester in her mind. This guilt is explored quite a few times throughout the novels until it finally capitalizes when Halsey kidnaps Kelly and travels to Onyx in some radical attempt to 'save' them from their militaristic fates.

If Halsey started a secondary wave of S-IIs, it would have had to be sometime after Ackerson's statementin 2531. We already know of Halsey's guilt in 2525, and so for Halsey to go and start up yet another wave of Spartan-IIs when these feelings are already taking hold of her would completely contradict the point of this rather heavy plot device.

Lastly, the only mentions of a second wave of Spartan-IIs have been when Vice Admiral Stanforth revealed that Mendez would be leaving the S-IIs to train the next generation of spartans, but this is quickly negated in Ghosts of Onyx when Ackerson reveals that Halsey's program was postponed indefinitely and its funding redacted shortly thereafter for other military purposes. The only other mention is in I Love Bees, which has yet to be definitively answered by Bungie (or Microsoft now) as canon or not (Joe Staten's interview with HSP in August of 2006 is our latest comment on it, and it was that they were currently working toward figuring out whether it was or wasn't canonical).

It's a big controversy right now, and I honestly believe that there really is no definitive answer on the subject. I'm just glad that the administrators decided to remove the "Class-II" that was sitting on his profile for awhile now.

spartain 117s color
in halo 3 spartain 117 master chiefs color is very faded army green, and u cant havefaded green as ur online or custom games color.


 * Umm, what?  Joshua  (Talk) (Contribs) 17:59, 9 July 2009 (UTC)


 * He's saying that it's impossible to make an Armor Permutation that resembles the Master Chief, as the Chief's armor color is unavailable and the scratch texture on his chestplate can't be simulated. But how is this relevant to SPARTAN-259? File:DavidJCobb_Emblem.svg|16px]] DavidJCobb  18:35, 9 July 2009 (UTC)


 * It isn't relevant, and the color is olive drab.  Smoke Sound off! 00:11, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Must be a Spartan
I'm sorry, but his line is just too bad ass for him not to be a Spartan! "You got Spartans on the ground sir, we're not going anywhere." That is like everything that a Spartan would say.


 * //Guest Comment (Claudio)
 * //Excellent point. Also see my argument to defend out case above.

Inconsistent Naming
In some cases 259 is referenced as SPARTAN-259 indicating a lack of a name like John, in other cases he is referenced as Sierra-259. It needs to be consistent, and which ever name is chosen the article name also needs to reflect the chosen name. --Revan&#39;s Exile 03:44, 17 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Problem is that we don't have all the information to make the article more consistent with the other SPARTANs. That said, if we just add unofficial information, that would be pure speculation without any support or evidence~, which is against our policies.-  5 əb'7 aŋk (7alk ) 07:40, 17 August 2009 (UTC)


 * On the Halo Reach game article it refers to them as Sierra-259/320 their own quotes refer themselves as Sierra. To be consistent and non-speculatory we should change it to Sierra and remove Spartan since there isn't any proof that they are Spartans to begin with (at least based on the discussion I have seen here). --Revan&#39;s Exile 12:17, 17 August 2009 (UTC)


 * //Guest Comment (Claudio)


 * I disagree, I think Sierra-259 should be confirmed as a Spartan, in accordance with his quote, "This is Sierra-259. You've got Spartans on the ground, sir.  We aren't going anywhere."  He is obviously some sort of Spartan, but there is a valid point brought up in this article; what kind of Spartan, we are not sure of.  The article should be changed to state that he is a Spartan, but not necessarily a Spartan-II.

I just got Halo 3 today. On the level where your mission objective is to destroy the first anti-air Wraith Terrence Hood asks Miranda Keys about Sierra 117 in regards to the status of the mission. That to me indicates that when talking over comms people refrences Spartan as Sierra as a codeword. --Revan&#39;s Exile 02:03, September 13, 2009 (UTC)

Sierra or Spartan?
As I stated above, I believe there are too many possibility's of him NOT being a Spartan for us to say for sure, so I making a vote: Should we change the name to Sierra-259 or keep Spartan-259?Papayaking 02:08, October 4, 2009 (UTC)

Commercials for a Halo game refer to Spartan-117 as Sierra-117. During Halo 3 Hood refers to Spartan-117 as Sierra-117. Ere go Sierra-320 and 259 are Spartans because canon states that Sierras are Spartans. To say they are not Spartans is speculation. --Revan&#39;s Exile 03:56, October 4, 2009 (UTC)

(Read my past comments in the Gamma class section), Yes, but is (I think) also speculation to say he is DEFINITELY a Spartan.Papayaking 03:59, October 4, 2009 (UTC)


 * Revan is correct. Though Sierra is S in the phonetic alphabet and can mean anything, in THIS case, it is clear that by Sierra, they mean Spartan. It's the only instance in which you hear the word in the Halo universe.  Smoke Sound off! 04:01, October 4, 2009 (UTC)

Actually, I just found a sierra page that WASAN'T a Spartan, Sierra10852, I just skimmed it so I'm not sure in the details, but that means there IS more uses for Sierra than just Spartans (as you said, but that means there is at least one more usage), though I do think they are Spartans, I'm just saying that we shouldn't say everywhere that they are for sure, though if they ARE Spartans (which is VERY likely) than they aren't class 3, as per my last argument in the gamma class section. But yes, they are most likely Spartans.Papayaking 01:55, October 8, 2009 (UTC)

Letter
Has it ever occurred to you that we could write a letter to BUNGIE? Just ask them if they are Class-II SPARTAN-IIs, or Pelicans. I'll ask CommanderTony if he agrees.--  Fore  run  ner  10:52, October 4, 2009 (UTC)

Good Idea--Masterchief777343777 03:41, October 8, 2009 (UTC)

"Sierra" probably means "Spartan"
This is not the first time that a Spartan has been referred to as "Sierra-number". At the end of the first mission in Halo 3, during the chatter between the pelican pilot and the base where they plan to land, the Master Chief is referred to as "Sierra-117". Furthermore, the following mission is named "Sierra-117".

I think it's safe to assume that this is a Spartan. It is simply easier for military personnel to use phonetic alphabet designations like "Sierra" than to say "Spartan" over the radio. Why this is becoming obfuscated is beyond me.

Finally
I thank the person who finally renamed this page on account of there being no evidence of Spartan-II status. Good day. -  Halo-343   ( Talk )   ( Contribs )   ( Edits )  21:06, October 14, 2009 (UTC)

Or perhaps?
Perhaps Bungie is just making an exception with their Spartan tags? If they are doing so, then Sierra-259 could just be a non canon Spartan such as Nicole or 1337. It would seem to form more loop holes though, and I dont think that Bungie need to form any more loop holes on top of their current ones. I for one would like to see Reach as consistent with canon as possible. ~ Now You Know, ~  That Flattery Will Get You Nowhere. ~ 11:17, October 27, 2009 (UTC)Blade bane

Is A Spartan
First, it can't be the Spartan's pelican, as it was shot down like 8km above the surface. And. "This is (...) You got Spartans on the ground sir. WE'RE not going any where."

SPARTAN-259 NAME CONFIRMED...CARTER
In the new trailer released by Bungie on the VGA's, SPARTAN-259's name is painted on the right shoulder of the spartan identified as "Commander". During the close-up, when this spartan speaks to SPARTAN-052-George you can clearly see painted "CARTER-259"

Also, since this is the "Commander" this may also be "Noble One" as speculated before.


 * I agree and can add secondary evidence, the ODST license plate "KNL 259C" Noble Leader 259 Carter. Can somone rename this thing, IMHO we have enough evidence. --CiaoGamer 05:48, December 13, 2009 (UTC)

I noticed it says CARTER-259 on one of the SPARTAN's armor in the VGA trailer. Could be him.

Someone changed the name but the article still refers to Sierra 259 and says his real name is unknown. --CiaoGamer 06:02, December 13, 2009 (UTC)
 * Then stop talking and change it...
 * The article is Un-Editable, I'm asking it to be unlocked or for someone who can edit to edit it. --CiaoGamer 06:28, December 13, 2009 (UTC)

He looks like...
John Forge? And he looks kinda shorter than the other Spartans. PX1'7'3 09:25, December 16, 2009 (UTC)


 * Speaking of Forge, am I the only one who thought his voice sounded suspiciously like Nolan North?  Captain Baird  Comm-LinkService Record 05:07, December 17, 2009 (UTC)

Like Kat looks like Kelly in "the package"

That is Nolan North....He is also Romeo in Halo 3:ODST. B2 23:22, January 14, 2010 (UTC)

Armor
MK IV Security anyone?--Lekgolo 04:40, December 17, 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree somewhat, it looks like a security/CQB hybrid... in blue. --CiaoGamer 05:43, December 17, 2009 (UTC)
 * I do not. The armor that Carter is wearing contains shield emitters, easily visible on the outside of the armor, which means shielding...which means Mark V.  Spartan 501 06:04, December 17, 2009 (UTC)

Renaming
I don't think we should've been so hasty to give Noble team spartans the company tags. Yes, they make sense in light of canon, but they weren't shown in the GI article, only their Spartan numbers. Their company tags might've been removed from their Spartan numbers as far as we know. --Jugus (Talk  | Contribs ) 19:33, January 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * I completely agree, they could have been conscripted between companies, or separate from them. - Black Mesa.jpg Halo-343   ( Talk )   ( Contribs )   ( Edits )  19:37, January 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I think the company letters should be removed unless we actually get a confirmation these Spartans have them. --Jugus (<font color="Gray">Talk  | <font color="Gray">Contribs ) 21:10, January 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * True, but the assumed info regarding their companies has been added to like a million pages. I think we should leave it as it is for now, seeing that although unconfirmed, the company status is very likely. - Black Mesa.jpg Halo-343   ( Talk )   ( Contribs )   ( Edits )  21:39, January 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmm, I disagree, there's no harm in changing things, no matter how many times it becomes necessary, just so long as there is consensus, otherwise I could see this getting messy. I would vote: remove tags now and then add later if acknowledged. Though I agree anyway, it does seem a little hasty, and assumed. - TheLostJedi  01:51, January 12, 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree with TheLostJedi. Also, aren't he and Emile too old for Alpha Company? Carter would've been 11, Emile would've been 8 and Jun would've been 7 in 2531 when A company was initiated. Most of the recruits were 4, 6 at the max IIRC. Jun would've just made the cut. There might be more to the S-III program than GoO reveals, they may have even been recruited separately from the main companies. Or, there might be smaller units, conscripted and trained separately from Alpha, Beta or Gamma. I think, when putting them to these companies, we're assuming too much, especially when the only official source doesn't give them the company tags.--<font color="MidnightBlue">Jugus (<font color="Gray">Talk  | <font color="Gray">Contribs ) 10:27, January 12, 2010 (UTC)