Talk:Slipstream space

Here's my Theory on Slipspace
If you actually think about it, you will see how annoyingly contradictory the idea of slipspace is. It must be something to do with having multiple writers with different internal concepts on what exactly it is.

Slipstream space is an alternate spacetime which is underlaid on the conventional three-dimensional universe ("normal space"). Relative distances are several orders of magnitude shorter in slipspace, and every point corresponds to a point in normal space.

In normal space, the shortest route between two points is a straight line, with a variety of longer routes possible (such as travelling to a third point before making for the final destination). This principle still valid in slipspace, but is magnified due to the presence of additional dimensions which multiply the number of possible paths. The shortest route is still a straight line, but a hyperdimensional straight line is shorter than a three-dimensional straight line.

This interpretation is supported Fhajad's physics paper, which states that the space-curving effect exhibited by mass (gravity, to the layperson) is magnified considerably in slipspace. This is a side effect of the shortening of relative distances due to hyperdimensionality.

The Shaw-Fujikawa translight engine uses microscopic singularities generates a resonance field (or "rift") which allows a mass in normal space to temporarily "fall" down into slipspace. The resonance field must be active for a craft to remain in slipspace. If it is disabled, the mass fill bounce back up into normal space. The same applies if part of the mass travels outside the field. Conventional reaction thrusters are used to get around in slipspace.

This is why the Covenant dropship was able to return to normal space simply by leaving the proximety of the Ascendant Justice, and explains why the UNSC Dusk was able to piggyback on the slipspace "wake" of a Covenant spacecraft.

The many dimensions of slipspace are inconcievable by a mass designed to exist in only three dimensions. An object travelling between two points may take exactly one month, but may take twice that time if repeated. This is because the object unknowingly takes a different hyperdimensional path the second time, but cannot tell due to not natively existing in slipspace.

This leads to an odd chronodynamic flexibility for objects travelling in slipspace, similar to Einsteinian time dilation but far less predictable and caused by non-relativistic physics.

The very notion of slipspace can be contradictory. Some would say it is another universe altogether, but this does not account for the fact that it can be topologically associated with our own (i.e. a point in slipspace generally corresponds to a point in normal space, which would not occur in truly alternate universes). Others say that it is simply the hidden dimensions of our own universe. However, this opinion is also flawed.

Conventional physics do not allow multiple "planes" of dimensions to exist in the same universe. If this opinion was correct, neither normal space nor slipspace would exist; both would be intertwined with each other and would be a single topologically and causally-connected hyperdimensional spacetime. Seven-dimensional slipspace could not coexist with three-dimensional normal space, there would only be a single ten-dimensional universe.

Theoretical physicists currently hypothesise that slipspace is a "middle ground" between the two views. Slipspace is part of our own universe, but is an alternate Lorentzian manifold (simply-connected structure containing space+time dimensions). Before slipspace's discovery, it was thought that each universe could only possess a single manifold, but it is now known to have two. The possibility of additional manifolds is possible, but unlikely.

86.154.76.113 16:59, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Explosion?
In Halo 2 (maybe other places too) when the Covenant ship jumped into slipspace while in New Mombassa, it created a huge explosion, destroying the city and unearthing the Ark. Does this happen often? Why isn't anything about the explosions listed here? Salty 02:11, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Probably because we never observed a jump inside a planet's atmosphere before. I don't think it happens elsewhere, but then I haven't read the books in a while. --Dragonclaws 05:07, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

it doesnt mention explosions in the books so far -Climax Viod 19:55, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
 * It doesn't mention explosions, but it does mention that if you jump to slipspace in an atmosphere, it tears up the planet close to you -- Lorddarkrevan 11:17, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

regrets carrier causes a huge explosion at the begining of halo3odst but at the end of the game multiple ships jump to earth IN EARTHS ATMOSPHERE and there are no huge explosions, how is this?


 * They're coming out of it in the atmosphere, not going into it. --Joem25 19:37, September 27, 2009 (UTC)
 * -It may be that generating a Slip-space field while in atmosphere draws surrounding items into the field (as shown in Halo 2 when the Covenant Carrier with In Ambler Clad showed up near delta halo with buildings nearby, and as shown in First Strike when Cortana initiated a Slip-Space field while in the atmosphere of Threshold, which drew it's gasses into the field.) but exiting a Slip-Space field while in atmosphere does nothing since you are merely "dropping" back into real space, and removing the field from around your ship. We don't see this sucking effect in space since there is nothing to draw into the field. --KickButtUnggoy 19:45, September 27, 2009 (UTC)


 * Exactly. It takes a pretty forceful way to open it, covenant or unsc.  And complications arise when done in a planet's atmosphere.  When entering splipspace in an atmosphere, it causes an explosion.  When exiting slipspace, no problems. XRoadToDawnX 19:45, September 27, 2009 (UTC)

Physics
It is called an over pressurization wave and is likely caused by the micro black holes compressing the atmosphere and releasing it almost instently. the bright light is likely from the Hawking radiation riding the edge of the wave. Galacticdominator 13:46, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Sorry boys. I have to correct you there. It is mentioned in the books. And I can tell you why there is an explosion. In Halo: First Strike, Master Chief and Cortana, along with Sargeant Avery Johnson and other UNSC personell, commandeer the covenant ship Ascendant-Justice. They are attacked and are caught in the gravity force of the gas giant Threshold. Cortana uses the much more 'finely tuned' slipspace mechanics engineered by the covenant to break a slipspace tear in orbit, the vectors in line with the gravitational pull as another portion of the equation used to establish the correct slipspace tear. This information was leaked to the covenant by the onboard AI before Cortana could tear it code by code. UNSC ships cannot perform and in atmosphere jump because of the different way of enterring slipspace used by UNSC Shaw Fujikawa drives in ships. While the SF drives plow their way into slipspace, covenant ships slip into it seamlessly. Think of it like a chainsaw, compared to a scalpal, for cutting through a piece of paper.

Why there is an explosion? I do have a theory, or two. 1) [Which I slightly doubt more than the other] Slipspace jumps are evaporated via Hawking radiation by UNSC ships and a similiar method by Covenant ships, I beleive. So, since the jump was so sudden and on Earth, where the covenant were attacking anyway, they had no need to contain the jump and the energy released. This is what caused the destruction. 2) Because they are in atmosphere, instead of in space which is a vacuum, the explosion was caused because the particles in our atmosphere caught 'flame' through the temporal rift and closing of another dimension. This is a similiar theory to what scientists believed the atomic bomb might do to the atmosphere, but on a more contained level.

As long as we are on the subject of the explosion, thats what unearthed the ark, I beleive. Its all very coincidental, and that is what's going to make a sort of cheesy yet understandable plot twist for Halo 3. Just thinking.

With love,

A friend of a Friend (I keep forgetting to make these contributions logged in, which is funny:))
 * Graves...wow. Excellent analysis, yet again, I fail to concur. I can understand it for mini-black holes and Hawking Radiation, which is simply that black holes must radiate energy as they continue on a temporal axis (i.e. - go forward in time), as they absorb information and matter/energy (all the same according to e=mc2). The reason that some don't believe the existance of hawking radiation is that mini-black holes explode in huge, stellar conflagarations of gamma radiation according to the theory of hawking radiation. these are, according to the calculations, astronomical enough to be seen on Earth. I could see a UNSC ship making an explosion, not a Covvie ship, *sighs* Not bad for a thirteen-year-old, eh? Cheers,  Relentless  Recusant File:Jedi_Order.jpg|20px]] 01:16, 4 December 2006 (UTC)


 * That would also explain why when Master Chief made the slipspace jump from Installation 04 to Reach aboard the Ascendant Justice in Halo: First Strike, the timestamp data didn't corraborate with each other, seemingly that the ship had accelerated in time. Cortana exclaims something to the effect that 'The Forerunner artifact had manipulated their slispace travel, wanting them to come there.' That theory in itself shatters the basis of a considerable amount of common knowledge considered fact, so I wont even go into that. It has alot to do with an exostential quality to Forerunner artifacts, having the abilities to warp space and time to their own liking, playing "god" if you will. God? There's that word again, brought up in a rant about the forerunner. I don't think they're gods though, since 'God' created life... Why would they create themselves?


 * Lovely.


 * -A friend of a friend.


 * User:CaptainAdamGraves
 * "God not only plays dice, He throws them in places we can not see."

- Stephen Hawking


 * -49 Proximal Secant [ Relentless  Recusant File:Jedi_Order.jpg|20px]] 21:16, 4 December 2006 (UTC)]

Retrieved from User talk:CaptainAdamGraves...

Hmmm... Perhaps slipspace works differently for the Covenant. Cortana in Halo:First Strike did note that the slipspace jumping capability was much more finely tuned in the physics department. I have another theory. It's about cars... But I need some more time to fine tune to analogy. User:CaptainAdamGraves


 * What the hell about cars? Anyways, what H:FS says makes perfect sense. Space is composed of an infinite number of infinitesimally small quantum strings - the proginitors of stirng theory. The vibrations of such strings create particles and the spacetime continuum and the multiple 11 dimensions...if the Covenant can slip ships through chains of such strings, they would have infinite accuracy. Literal infinite accuracy. The several picometer deviation of their slipspace courses are probably through quantum uncertainty in transversing such strings. =D Cheers,  Relentless  Recusant File:Jedi_Order.jpg|20px]] 22:12, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
 * And you're thirteen, and you already know such scientific terminology? Damn, if only I had been that scientifically inclined those few years ago, maybe now I wouldn't have so much trouble with Chem. class. But, I understand what you are saying. It would mean that human ships cannot move through the precise strings, they can only navigate in that dimension with estimated fields of courses, picking a course string at random, plotting the course vectors, and waiting. This would explain why human ships take months in slispace at some times, while other times they only take a matter of days. Though, still, the random probability of a human ship achieving the perfect jump must be astronomical when it's random. But for a covenant ship, it must just be routine. It's why they were able to do such accurate jumps when fighting the MAC cannons orbiting Reach. Correct? I'm hoping that I am able to grasp what youre saying, because it truly is interesting.


 * Lovely.


 * User:CaptainAdamGraves
 * Well, only partially correct, my dear Helen. THe impression I get is that UNSC starships use these miniature black holes and the resultant Hawking Radiation (see above) to blow holes in Slipspace - to superwiden certain quantum strings. Of course, such a blowing up and enlarging of quantum strings is not accurate. Hell no. It would be nigh impossible to control the emitted radiation to open the precisely correct strings required. Then, you're correct. A semi-blind jump, several million kilometers plus-minus of their destination. The reason that they take so long, I believe, is that they need to continually generate energy to keep the quantum strings open. Like fully open so that the UNSC ship can continue travelling. I believe that Covvies do it much faster because they are not trying to influence a whole mass of strings. UNSC ships need to randomly create exploding black holes to maintain probably more than trillions of strings open, 'cuz they can't tell which ones they've opened, which ones they're using, so they don't dare to close a few in fear of cutting themselves away into alternate dimensions forever...Covvies just open one string. That's it.


 * All guesswork, of course, but backed by quantum mechanics.


 * And Helen, I know this b/c I did a lot of astrophysics, chaos theory, and quantum mechanics work two years back. Those were great times. I was 11 then...=D


 * And do you need help w/ chem? I've taken General Chemistries I and II, and if there's anything, feel free to ask 49 Proximal Secant.


 * And it was only after a Google search I found out whatever math theorem you were sprouting 'bout secant. Damn. I only know the integration and differentiation of secant, how it's made on the coordinate plane and right triangle and how to plot an equation w/ it onthe polar plane...yeah...damn. Math major, may I inquire?


 * Cheers,  Relentless  Recusant File:Jedi_Order.jpg|20px]] 02:06, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Blowing Things Up
maby seeing as it was a human planet the covenant decided to let off one of there big fancy bombs like they did to the athens and the malta--Fatman ninja 21:48, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
 * no offense, but what in the stars are you speaking of? cheers,  Relentless  Recusant File:Jedi_Order.jpg|20px]] 22:14, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

He thinks they droped a bomb as they leftGalacticdominator 13:49, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

A theory about slipspace radiation
UNSC ships are equipped with lead foil that protects the marines from the high amounts of radiation due to slipspace travel, but it is unknown whether the Covenant utilize lead foil as well. I think that the radiation may not have any effect on them whatsoever.

My basing for this is that humans can suffer mild mutations and genetic disorders because of plasma radiation from plasma grenades. However, Covenant Unggoy are seen throwing plasma grenades at every possible chance in "Halo: Combat Evolved" and "Halo 2", and there are no discernable side effects.

Further proof is the fact that Grunts do not have energy shields, and the grenades touch their bare flesh, as there is no armor on their arms. This leads to speculation that perhaps the many species of the Covenant have perhaps evolved an immunity to plasma and slipspace radiation. Spartan-320 13:59, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * You can't have an "immunity" to radiation. Radiation is a physical attack on the body. It's like saying "an immunity to bullets."--The All-knowing Sith&#39;ari 16:00, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

You can have an immunity to bullets if your skin's hard enough. Maybe the Covies have a bolstered cellular repair system which fixes radiation damage. Plants are still alive around where Chernobyl went up. It also wouldn't be beyond them to genetically engineer such a resistance to radiation.86.154.76.113 17:06, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Advancements
By 2525 - Epsilon Indi to Reach - two months, despite being between 10 and 11 lightyears apart in real life.

By 2552 - Reach to Earth in only 19 days, being about ten lightyears.

Future? - captured Covenant tech.

Should we add the section? Obviously expanded, rather than the barebones here, but is it worth including?  Specops306 ,  Kora 'Morhek  04:53, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Speeds
I've done some calculating, and come out with some interesting results.


 * Lieutenant Wagner's Prowler managed to reach Earth in four days. Epsilon Eridani is 10.5 ly's from Earth. That gives us a speed of 2.625 lightyears per day.
 * The Gettysberg, travelling from Tau Ceti 11.89 lightyears away from Earth, reached it in 35 hours (min estimate) with a Covenant slipspace matrix, giving a figure of .33 lightyears per hour, or 8.15 lightyears per day.

that's quite a figure. 2.6 l/d vs 8.l5 l/d? No wonder we were losing so badly. The Covenant take one third of the time it takes human drives!  Specops306 ,  Kora 'Morhek  23:11, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay, instead of using the ambiguous Gettysburg travel (because it never states when the ship arrives at Earth), I used the time it took the Covenant Destroyer that Blue Team hijacks in GoO, one hour, and the distance from Earth to Zeta Doradus, which is 38 lightyears. 38 lightyears in one hour?? thats 912 lightyears per day! No wonder we were losing this war!  Specops306 ,  Kora 'Morhek  03:01, 27 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Daaamn. -- Sgt. johnson File:General-gr1.gif|30px]] 03:02, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Now, this is interesting. I've recently realized that the UNSC's sphere of influence is a lot bigger than we've been led to believe. It is possibly up to five hundred light-years wide. Look at this:
 * Beta Centauri: 525 light-years from Earth. Human slipspace velocity: 2.625 ly/day
 * 525/2.625=200 days (roughly). With cryotubes, that's nothing!--The All-knowing Sith&#39;ari 16:30, 29 August 2008 (UTC)


 * All this really says to me is that the drive works “At the Speed of plot” it goes as fast or as slow as needed for the plot to work, or that the variations in speed mentioned can be by a factor of 100. Either way attempting to assign and actual “top speed” given the huge differences between different incidents looks to me to be very much a fools errand.--TK3997 07:45, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

????
In Halo: First Strike it says cortana looks for a Slipspace drive on pelican despite the ship having no mention of it having lead foil.

Matterwave Transport Without Transit
I'd love to read the page that the sentence leads to - unfortunately, the link doesnt work.  Specops306 ,  Kora 'Morhek  00:00, 24 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, now it does, it sounds remarkably similar! --  Administrator  Specops306  -  Qur'a 'Morhek   Honour Light Your Way!  04:16, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Cleanup
some blocks of text are out of place and quite a bit of this info needs to be checked with the books. Omega117 06:42, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Slipspace Question
when ships jump in atmosphere it cause's an explosion what about when the ark portal was activated n ships went into it? why was there no expolosion? -Shipmaster117-


 * In fact, there is an explosion when the portal is activated. A rather big one too. The screen just goes black at the point, but it clearly generates a shockwave of some sort.--Jugus 08:01, October 23, 2009 (UTC)

good point, but y no damage to voi? the exploseion was big enugh for it to reach past voi. Shipmaster117 09:55, October 23, 2009 (UTC)

The Portal is created by forerunner, and appears to be much more advanced... hence why it can stay open longer. And in GoO, they managed to hide a few tubes in slipspace, and but a planet in slipspace... without any damage. And the explosion was more like an EMP blast I think... Me XD

About Slipspace Velocities
The slipspace speeds of both human and Covenant ships mentioned in Halopedia are all just based off calculations from the novels - and the only evidence is one instance, for Covenant ships, it's the Bloodied Spirit in GoO, and human ships, not really sure but it's just one instance anyways. Yet, in most articles, the speed 2.1 ly/day is stated to be the slipspace velocity of basically every human ship. How are we supposed to know if that speed is default? What if the efficiency of slipspace drives varies? It's been mentioned multiple times that Prowlers, for example, are faster than normal ships.

This applies to Covenant ships too. We don't know if their slipspace velocities actually vary or not, so claims shouldn't be made unless we have proof. And I don't think just one instance counts as proof; the Bloodied Spirit might've been exceptionally fast for all we know. This means that the same speed - 912LY/day - shouldn't be applied to every Covenant ship either. The travel times in the novels differ, so it's safe to say that not every Covenant ship is that fast. --Jugus 22:13, November 30, 2009 (UTC)


 * Again why I said they work "at the speed of plot". They're as fast or as slow as needed to make the plot work. All we really know is that human drives are slower on average and not as accurate. Though variation in travel time between apparently identical ships are mentioned in the novels IIRC, but they're sort of implied to be noticeable, but small probably a few hours or such for long trips. --TK3997 22:46, December 20, 2009 (UTC)


 * It is quite possible that the "Light years per day" measurement is an average for that type of ship, 'cause, if slipspace is as confused as it supposedly is, wouldn't that mean there is a huge possibility of varying speeds throughout a jump. Certain points speed it up, while other points slow it down. ~Enlightment~ ~Fighting Vandalism and Watching Unregistereds~ 05:08, March 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'd like to include the fact that the Pillar of Autumn took 18/9 days to get to Installation 04 from Reach. This would put 04 at a mere 40ly away from Reach. That would put it at between 10 and 50ly from Earth (depending on the direction).--  Fore  run  ner  22:10, April 14, 2010 (UTC)

Slipspace and cryosleep
I've seen that on some articles saying that "...considering the amount of time spent in Slipspace...". From what I know, it's cryosleep that delays aging, not Slipspace. Even though almost everyone goes to cryosleep during Slipspace travel, it isn't really appropriate to say and repeat the above quote. PX1'7'3 14:51, January 8, 2010 (UTC)

Misnomer
"The "Pillar"(of Autumn) makes a desperate jump though Slipspace, which is like hyperspace but slippier."

- IGN, Five minute summary of the #Halo series

At one point, this article's Trivia section(which appears to have been removed) stated that the name "Slipspace" is a misnomer, as it is not true space and there is nothing to slip against. So why call it Slipspace? Why not just use "hyperspace", since that seems to fit the description much better? Don't worry, I'm just curious and I'm suggesting anything about changing the page's summary, I'm simply curious about this reason for naming.Tuckerscreator 23:07, May 1, 2010 (UTC)

Because slipspace sounds cooler and hyperspace is overused Seraph340 -Don't spit into the wind 08:42, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

Instantaneous?
We know for a fact that slipspace travel takes some amount of time to a location. It is not instantaneous. However, this appears so to those who are in normal space, not in slipstream space. What about those in the slipstream space? Do they spend the same amount of time as those in normal space, or is their travel period instantaneous? Consider this situation; a group of travellers journeyed into slipspace on May 7. The projected arrival time by those in normal space is in a week (May 14). As the travellers arrived to their location, the time indicator aboard their ship still shows May 7, but the actual date is actually May 14.

I can't really word it out properly as I'm not really a science person. It is parallel to this video (start watching it from 0:52) :( -  5 əb'7 aŋk (7alk ) 18:36, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * I doubt that. Personnel still have to go into cryosleep during jumps in order to conserve resources. That suggests to me that at least some time is taken for a ship to get from A to B in Slipspace.--The All-knowing Sith&#39;ari 19:48, May 23, 2010 (UTC)

Needs moar Covenant
Every image in this article is that of a Covenant ship, we need more UNSC and Forerunner ships going through slipspace, I know some can be found in Legends! القط القاهرة. 22:51, May 29, 2010 (UTC)

Seraphs & Banshee's use slipspace?
I was just watching the E3 Extended Campaign Mission with some IGN bloke and a guy from bungie Joe Tung(?), i think. At the start of the battle of Anchor 9, there are flashes of light that look exactly like a smaller vessel exiting slipspace. The reticule goes over the area where the flashes are and it shows the words Seraph and Banshee.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJqw6QvSzXQ - Thats the link and at 7:27 you can start to see the flashes. If you watch it there no large Covenant vessels in sight, only a human frigate and Anchor 9. This means smaller space craft can traverse slipspace, although perhaps only for a short journey. XW3 AR3 L3GION 21:43, July 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * When I first watched said video, I immediately assumed that the craft had been deployed from a parent vessel within Slipspace, just like the Long Range Stealth Orbital Insertion Pod or the Spirit that the SPARTANs used to board Unyielding Hierophant. Thus, I don't think the Seraphs, and especially not the Banshees, travelled through Slipspace on their on power, but were essentially hurled through Slipspace toward their target. Keep in mind that the LRSOIP provided a bumpy ride, and the Spirit, despite being heavily reinforced, barely held together, so it's probably not done often. --&quot;Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have.&quot; -Thomas Jefferson 22:21, July 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * Guys, after the third wave, they are also ENTERING slipspace. User talk: steven1098s 3:38, October 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * The game mentions something called "Impulse drive" before the fighters exit slipspace. Which seems to heavily imply that the so-called Impulse drive is indeed a slipspace drive of some kind. My guess is that it refers to a small, fighter-mounted slipspace drive that allows short jumps. Wouldn't really be unheard of with Covenant technology. --Jugus (Talk  | Contribs ) 12:50, October 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Do we really know that they are using slipspace? I thought that slipspace ruptures looked blue-ish and had sparks coming out, and wheren't white lights. And if they were using slipspace wouldn't the marines have called it as such? instead of impulse drive signitures detected, shouldn't they have said slipspace ruptures detected? also how could they detect them in slipspace before they actually appeared without slipspace probes of some sort? Because the marines told the sabres about a second before they actually appeared.-- Tentacle tornado 14:23, 30 October 2010 (EDT)

Update needed for shaw-fujikawa slispace drives
There is an update needed for shaw-fujikawa slipspace drive capable of entering slipspace in-atmosphere of gas giants. [Life and death of Admiral P.J.C] Erickyboo 20:20, 30 November 2011 (EST)

Quantum entanglement and slipspace comms
I believe the "entangled communications" mentioned in Cryptum and Cortana's slipspace "carrier wave" are two separate technologies. Cortana's transmission seemed to be an ordinary radio wave carried through slipspace, which is also why people on both Onyx and Earth were able to pick it up. I don't see how this would've been possible if it was sent via QE. Ignoring the fact Cryptum claims Forerunners didn't use EM-based communications at all (p144) while Cortana's signal seems to suggest otherwise, Halo fiction has given us a number of apparent kinds of FTL comms known to the Forerunners:
 * Quantum entanglement, as mentioned in Cryptum; the wording "entangled communications" is vague, but most likely refers to quantum entanglement
 * The Domain, which seems to be sort of a mystical thing and nobody really knows how it works
 * Slipspace-based radio or similar wave transmissions, as used by Cortana in Ghosts of Onyx
 * And finally, the "achingly slow" wormhole-based superluminal communications mentioned by Guilty Spark in Anniversarys terminals. --Jugus' (Talk  | Contribs ) 13:00, 11 June 2012 (EDT)

On the nature of slipspace
Thought one very fundamental matter regarding the nature of slipspace needed some extra clarification. Our article currently describes slipspace as a set of extra dimensions that exist "over" the four conventional dimensions of our universe (ie. the standard hyperspace concept). But is this actually the case? Are the hyperdimensions collectively known as slipspace part of our universe or a separate parallel continuum? Terms like "higher dimensions" get thrown around a lot in canon, but does this refer to higher dimensions that lay over our spacetime or the dimensions of a realm of existence distinct from our universe?

Slipspace has been established as an eleven-dimensional spacetime, but if it were part of our universe (as the article currently describes it) the "slipspace" part would only consist of seven hyperdimensions, yes? And how would this work in practice? Does a slipspace jump somehow extend a ship's presence in our continuum to cover its entire range of eleven dimensions (hence the references to it as an "eleven-dimensional spacetime" instead of a "seven-dimensional spacetime"), or, as seems more probable, open a portal to what is functionally a separate but adjacent universe with its own eleven dimensions? The thorough alienness of the physics of slipspace, for instance, seems to suggest the latter option.

It would help if someone could pull some relevant quotes from the novels. What I can gather with a quick glance through First Strike and the Halsey journal are mostly the standard references to hyperdimensions as well as references to slipspace as a "higher-dimensional space"; in what way this is true is the real question. --Jugus (Talk  | Contribs ) 09:30, 19 March 2014 (EDT)


 * I remember a theory that the multiverse existed as "stacked" layers, newer ones "on top" of of older ones. We know that slipspace is a "space" where the physical laws have broken down enough to permit violation of relativity without as much effort. Combined with "heat death' theory, where an old universe that has begun to undergo the "Big Crunch" has a similar breakdown of the laws of spacetime, my understanding of slipspace was that it was one the older universes that preceded our own. I have no canonical basis for this, and I'm fairly sure that the "layer" theory has been supplanted by a new theory that's more akin to bubbles in quantum foam. I'm also not a physicist, so I'm probably way off.--  Qura 'Morhek   The Autocrat     of Morheka   00:41, 20 March 2014 (EDT)


 * Looking through my notes on Slipspace, I would say that Slipspace itself is composed of 11 dimensions, with our 3 dimensional space plus 1 time dimension being additional to these. My references are "the eleven nondimensions of Slipspace"-GoO:p186, (implying where we exist in space and time now are, in fact, dimensions) and that Slipspace refers to "non-Euclidian, non-Einsteinian realms"-FS:p191. What makes it deliberately hard to make out how Slipspace really works, is a line from the First Strike - Definitive Edition short story, Tug O' War: "...with slipspace, it has always been difficult to accurately measure the time it takes to travel from one location to another. There's always been an irregular, unpredictable, and inexplicable temporal discrepancy between those who entered slipspace and those who remained outside of it—this is a proven and accepted fact of science. It could be the mass from extra dimensions; it could be magic."-FS-DE:419. This sounds like 343i does not want to pin down how it works to curb story needs, nor do they want anyone to ;figure it out' because that may break existing canon. Seems like they want it to be able to do anything the story demands. -ScaleMaster117 (talk) 16:20, 26 March 2014 (EDT)


 * I see, thanks. I asked because think there is reason to amend the article's descriptions of the (admittedly vague) nature of slipspace; the article currently seems to assume too much. --Jugus (<font color="Gray">Talk  | <font color="Gray">Contribs ) 01:33, 27 March 2014 (EDT)


 * Here's a way to try and conceptualize other higher dimensions. If you were a 2-dimensional being, your entire universe would consist of left and right movements and forward and back or anything on the plane of your existence. For a 2-dimensional being to imagine (via mathematics or theoretical physics of a third dimension), this being would have to try and imagine what the concept of 'up' and 'down' were. It's not something it could point to of course.


 * In our 3-dimensional space, it would be like trying to travel north of the north pole. It sounds silly on the face of it because we live on a 3-dimensional sphere called Earth, but if we could attain a higher dimension, we'd actually be able to travel north of the north pole. The next dimension would be at right angles to the other 3 directions we can point to now, which we can't do because we're stuck in our 3-dimensional universe.


 * When you take any shape and shine light on it you see a 2-dimensional shadow of a 3-dimensional shape. A model of a tesseract, which looks like a cube within a cube connected at the edges, that model is us looking at a shadow of a 4-dimensional object. It's hard to imagine what an object like that would really look like if we're only seeing its shadow, one dimension being lost to us because of where we exist. Hopefully, that's a bit of a help and not more confusing. -ScaleMaster117 (talk) 09:23, 27 March 2014 (EDT)


 * For me, it's not too hard to wrap my head around the concept of higher dimensions itself on a basic level. My main query (which is admittedly confusing now that I read it) was mainly about how one would go about classifying slipspace: as part of our universe, or a separate universe? That is, is our universe really eleven-dimensional (or 15-dimensional, depending on the interpretation) and we just can't observe or access the extra ones, or is our universe just the 3+1 dimensions we're familiar with and slipspace, with its 11 dimensions, is a distinct 'universe', with both being part of a larger multiverse? Since words fail me on this matter, here's an image I whipped up to illustrate what I'm trying to get across:




 * Myself, I'm leaning toward model C, or the "slipspace as its own universe" theory, mainly because we know slipspace has markedly different—and hostile—physical laws, and you have to open "portals" into it. When jumping into slipspace you're not merely going in an extra "direction", you're transitioning into a different reality with its own directions, basically. --<font color="MidnightBlue">Jugus (<font color="Gray">Talk  | <font color="Gray">Contribs ) 12:12, 27 March 2014 (EDT)


 * My gut feeling is that your model B would be the best depiction. In modern astrophysics, there's currently theories of the multiverse, but no way of knowing about or gaining access to them. These would be distinct universes from ours, but apart from that, and as I understand it, if string theory is an actual thing (which is a hot debate topic in itself) then we live in an 11-dimensional universe and that's within our own universe (of which we experience 3 dimensions of space and 1 of time. It's just that without a tremendous amount of energy (like black hole singularity-worth or greater) they are inaccessible dimensions. Being in Slipspace it's said in the Halo novels, you can pass through normal matter like planets or stars completely unaffected by it, which wouldn't seem like you're in a distinct universe like your model C. That's why I think model B is more appropriate. The extra dimensions exist in our universe, but unless you use some exotic substance or energy, you can't access it. Ships in Slipspace are in another dimension that exists within our 3-dimensional realm, and as such are not bound by the constraints of relativity. A ship in Slipspace would exist like a shadow in our universe like in my example a note above. A 2-dimensional shadow does no harm whatsoever to anything in our 3-dimensional reality. -ScaleMaster117 (talk) 13:28, 27 March 2014 (EDT)

Slipspace and conventional engines
I've wanted to address this point for a while. The article states that a ship's traditional reaction drive is still required to move the vessel in slipspace, citing two more or less ambiguous statements for this claim. Given how fundamentally different physics are in slipspace, as well as statements about notion of "acceleration" or even space being meaningless therein, is it really plausible to assume the conventional drive is at all relevant in slipspace? The two statements cited on the page are as follows:

"The Redoubtable, the Paris, and the Coral Sea, with their larger engines, had moved ahead in the Slipstream wake." (Ghosts of Onyx, p. 187)

In this case, "larger engines" is interpreted as larger reaction engines and not larger S-F drives. I suppose this isn't too unreasonable of an interpretation given the wording—would the size of a slipspace drive matter in this case? It could also be referring to the way the larger ships' fusion power plants are able to feed more power into the slipspace drive, thus facilitating faster travel. The other quote is more vague:

"Unlike the rocket engines of humanity's first space vehicles, Shaw-Fujikawa drives didn't generate thrust. Instead, the devices created temporary rifts in the fabric of space-time—opened passages in and out of a multidimensional domain known as Slipstream Space, or Slipspace for short." (Contact Harvest, p. 23)

I suppose one could interpret this as stating you need conventional thrust to move in slipspace since the S-F drive's only described function is the opening of rifts in and out of slipspace (and not the "moving" of the ship within) but again, this isn't too clear. But the highly exotic nature of slipspace would suggest, to me, that traditional methods of propulsion would be rendered meaningless in S-F space. --<font color="MidnightBlue">Jugus (<font color="Gray">Talk  | <font color="Gray">Contribs ) 04:02, 30 January 2015 (EST)


 * Keep in mind that the gravity fields of significant masses create a "flattening" effect on the warped nature of slipspace's spacetime, creating a bubble where physical rules function like those of realspace. Within this space, conventional thrust should be possible, but the propulsion of the "bubble" itself may be accelerated by the effect of slipspace. Kind of like a limited inversion of traditional warp drive, I suppose, enabling conventional travel rather than unconventional. --  Qura 'Morhek   The Autocrat     of Morheka   01:34, 31 January 2015 (EST)