Talk:SPARTAN-III program

Spartan III
Is this what they look like? Should it go into the article?


 * yes -- Varicen 03:43, 19 November 2006) (edit)

Where did that picture come from?--prophit of war 15:34, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Cropped from the cover of Halo: Ghosts of Onyx. --  Manticore  TalkundefinedCSV 12:59, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Alpha Company
What page does it say that out of the 498 candidates for AC, that 198 died during augmentations. I believe they just dropped the extra 198 and augmented the remaining 300. If not then the mortality rate of the augmentations is actually something like 40% instead of the 0% stated in the article. --Vlad3163 18:15, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Also something else I thought of today. Alpha Comp was indoctrinated in 2531, yet contained orphans from Jericho VII which wasnt glassed until 2535. Either Nylund messed up, or the Covies spent 4 years stocking up on alt burgandy before glassing the planet. --Vlad3163 17:56, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Vlad, Alpha and Beta Company were never augemented. Only Gamma Company was augemented. --UNSC AI 21:13, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

They were Augmentated Beta and Alpha just Gamma got Illegal Augmentations

I am pretty sure all three classes were augmented. The augmenting was changed for Gamma though. As for the Jericho VII orphans, I can't find any references linking Alpha with Jericho VII. While I don't doubt some of the orphans may have come there, it is entirely possible that they were orphaned by fathers or mothers dying in combat and then the other parent dying on the planet in an accident of sorts. Nylund doesn't appear to be suggesting Jericho VII was glassed prior to 2531.
 * -- Master Gunnery Sergeant  Hank J Wimbleton IV COMHalo: Galaxy 03:30, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Where did the pic of Alpha company and Mendez come from???(NoobSlayer757 01:46, May 11, 2010 (UTC))
 * Birth of a Spartan --Revan&#39;s Exile 01:59, May 11, 2010 (UTC)

The argumentation
Where the hell did you get the list of argumentation? --Master Chief Petty Officer 03:21, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

AUGEMENTATION. From Ghosts of Onyx,duh...--UNSC AI 20:10, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

What do you mean? Look at the article and it will make sense of what am I asking!--Master Chief Petty Officer 12:21, 17 January 2007 (UTC)


 * This list is pretty much cut and paste from the novel Halo: Ghosts of Onyx, page 102. It's accurate. --  Manticore  TalkundefinedCSV 15:56, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Oh, thanks, but it seems that the Spartan IIs are greater then the Spartan IIIs!--Master Chief Petty Officer 01:50, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

They are, the SPARTAN-IIs are superior in every way to the SPARTAN-IIIs even the armor is! The Spartan-IIIs will have to rely on teamwork to survive--UNSC AI 00:05, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, that's what I thinkMaster Chief Petty Officer 12:38, 8 February 2007 (UTC)


 * The problem with the S-II program was that they were an expensive outfit that required over a decade to train and a very stringent set of requirements for viable candidates. However, the duplication of having a super soldier program was what spurred the creation of the S-III program - one that would have a shorter training time and a lot more lax set of requirements. Thus instead of 33 elite troops from the S-II group, you have 300 slightly lesser but still elite troops. Indeed, S-IIIs are still superior to Elites. --Forgottenlord 12:53, 10 July 2007 (UTC)


 * More than just that but even with the strict requirement most of the S-IIs died because of the augmentation. quite simply: the S-IIs were extreamly impractical. If only they were all as good as John-117, then they may be close to worth it. John could just about liberate a planet by himselfe if he had the right guns and enough ammo(i know thats exagerated but regardless im shure you see my point.- Seargeant Maiar/Minor Domo Asgl 'Motosee

Gamma Company
just wondering but i just noticed how the brutes are going to be fighting in sqaud based combat and the chief 1 on 1 with a brute is a little trying, let alone 6 of them working together this might sound stupid but couldnt it be a possiblity that the spartan IIIs that made it off of onyx could actually be deployed on earth to help the master chief and the chief has not always worked alone bcuz he was the leader of blue sqaud previously, he just only worked with other spartans i might have put this in the wrong spot but i supposed that this is a way to keep the master chief from dieing(Boommer3 23:25, 20 February 2007 (UTC))

I got a question it says all but Ash, Mark, and Olivia are dead but it never once say that they are in the book it only tells you about the 15 on onyx what about the other 315 spartans that wernt there?

Eh, nobody knows what happened to the other 315.

ON the S-3 page it says September/October they all went on a mission, then the fall of reach takes place, and Noble Team is there. EchostreamFanJosh

Halo 3
will the spartan 3's be used in halo3?

I dont know but i hope so it would be a brilliant way to conclued the serise by bringing in all of the kick ass human soldiers and spartans User:Kami-Sama

Evidence of this exciste. The new Gamepro (July) has Spartans with SPI, in which Halo 2 they brought the Elites as a skin becasue they were a big foucus of the Campagin. So mabey the mystrey Spartan armor and SPI are possibley going to be in the Campagin. Which means SPARTAN IIIs and more SPARTAN IIs! Spartans   With   SPI ROCK  20:55, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

ok so like, there are still spartan II's right? so like why didnt they use them in halo 3? that would have made the game like sicker than f**king jesus christ.


 * The S-IIs are in the Dyson sphere, away from Earth. They'll probably come back in some later novel. --Dragonc laws (talk ) 06:39, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

shields
Dose any one know if there suits have shields please respond. User:Kami-Sama


 * They have no shields. -ED 20:03, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

thanks can you tell me how you no this User:Kami-Sama
 * Its stated throughout Ghosts of Onyx, particularly in the first chapter. The armor could take "Only a few glancing blows" before failing. They relied on their camo abilites much more. -ED 17:13, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

They dont have sheilds thats why they used Jackal Sheilds

wussup all, anyways i know they have no sheilds and camo instead but their camo never seems to work. like they always get spotted or found even with the camo... like wtf?

I'd take the sheild over camo and mobility any day.

Wish a wish
What if they were featured in Halo 3? Or in Halo 2? Why is there only one spartan in the games?

User:Twilightstorm

It makes the Chief more heroic, making it feels that he's the last spartan left to defend the earth, giving out people an impressiong that he is humanity's final hopeMaster Chief Petty Officer 12:16, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

He Is the other Spartans beside Gray Team are in the Dyson Sphere

Did anyone remember hearing something about Delta Company?Master Chief Petty Officer 12:15, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't remember anything about Delta Company, no. I remember a Spartan Team Omega, or something along those lines, but that's Halo Wars, which takes place prior to Halo CE. As far as SPARTAN-IIs go, there are only six that could seriously be predicted to make an appearance in Halo 3: Randall, the three SPARTAN-IIs of Gray Team, Maria-052, and John-117 (our main character). While Bungie gives reasons for John being the only SPARTAN-II in the games (as the others are off fighting in different locations), it also adds to the player experience. If all the UNSC characters were SPARTAN-IIs in Halo CE or Halo 2, it would make the player feel less needed. Even by adding a couple other SPARTAN-IIs, the player might feel less unique or heroic. However, SPARTAN-IIIs are not necessarily as good as SPARTAN-IIs, and we should consider the fact that there are 315 Gamma SPARTAN-IIIs unaccounted for as per Ghosts of Onyx. I do hope they make an appearance, if not as a playable story line, then as allies, in Halo 3.
 * -- Master Gunnery Sergeant  Hank J Wimbleton IV COMHalo: Galaxy 03:16, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

This is just a speculation but...
is it possible that the fact Alpha company was trained in 300 a historical link that the Spartan last stand on Thermopylae pass in Greece during the Persian Wars was a last stand of 300?

This could show that the Spartan III's were suicidal, like the original Greek Spartans, or the numbers are the same. I dunno, but this seems like a coincidence.

What do you all think?

Watch out, I brake for Grunts. Hogdriver022 00:12, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

I noticed that also. Alpha company had 300 and all died to buy the people enough time to prepare for a battle.

With Nylund and Bungie, I wouldn't have put it past them.... --Forgottenlord 12:55, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Wtf? 6 year old soldiers
Now I never read the novels. But how the hell did they make litlle kids. Be able to fight the covenent. Imagine a 6 year old against a sword elite

Ah, that proves you'd never read the book, do you expect the UNSC letting a bundle of 6 years old to fight the Covenant? ΜΆŜΤΈŖČΗέÏΣΡΈΤΤΥОΓΓïČëŗ 04:47, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Well that's because according to Ackerson's plan, the S-III's were to be supersoldiers that could be mass produced and equally expendable. They were sent on missions where the percentage of survival was very low, even lower than the types of missions the S-II's were sent on. Peace. I ' m  O  color=Tomato">n  color=OrangeRed"> F  color=Red">i r e  color=DarkRed">!  FeedTheFlame Wa tc <font color=Silver>hM <font color=DarkGray>yS <font color=Gray>mo <font color=DimGray>ke  20:53, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, i agree, and they were trained BEFORE the human-covie war started they dont take kids and go like "ok u 2 kids go defend this place,u 3 defend here, ect." they were already teenagers i think when they got the Mark IV armor. (first MJOLNIR)SPARTAN-III leader 17:31, March 27, 2010 (UTC)

I believe they began training at that age, but weren't sent out until they were augmented. -- Dragon<font color="FF0000">c laws ( talk ) 02:58, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

They began training between the ages of four and five. They were likely shipped out at the age of twelve to fourteen.
 * -- Master Gunnery Sergeant  Hank J Wimbleton IV COMHalo: Galaxy 03:12, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

This is confusing. Does augmentation help the children to develop into adults at an increased rate or something? Teenagers and kids fighting aliens is kind of hard to grasp.Fire Eater 06:23, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Its not at all surprsing you know. Billions and billions of humans dead. UNSC-wide conscription and no amount of soldiers seem to be effective against the Covenant. They must be running low on people to use in the project. -- ED ( talk )(gaming) 04:09, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

No, it doesn't(this is directed at Fire Eater), it makes them taller, smarter, stronger, and in many physical ways more adult, however, there secondary sexual characteristics for instance, probably do not develop early, nether do their various other glands. It would probably be equivalent to putting a harshly disciplined child's brain in the body of a marine body builder.--Kre &#39;Nunumee 19:47, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

I agree. They were the same in proportion to spartan-II, but they were much younger and had less protective armor. Though, I wouldn't mind being invisible while taking out elites. -"Blu tuth ninja".

Personally, I'd prefer the option of to crouching up and to snap a neck or run up, blast them with a Rocket and unloading with AR while my shield soaks up bullets rather then:snapping and being put down with one lucky shot while three hundred others do the same thing. Seriously, the Spartan 2's survived how many impossible engagements, just the MC alone DESTROYED the Covenant almost single handedly, but the S3's are massacred every time.--Kre &#39;Nunumee 02:00, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Well remember that they had to deal with a tiny budget. It's only bad luck that Beta got massacred, due to an error in STARS that didn't recognize the covenant warships refueling. If the Spartan-IIIs had MJOLNIR armor they would have been literally unstoppable. But they didn't have money for MJOLNIR armor (which costs a whole lot of money to build). Spartan-IIIs were tough, and most had motivation. The book says that most were orphaned by the Covenant and they wanted revenge. Also one last thing: Think about paying the already massive price for MJOLNIR armor for 300 soldiers instead of roughly 30. Krono &#39;Zulamee 20:37, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Very true and well thought, I agree. As another thought, though it is rather moot and irrelevant, what would the III's, and other orphans/refugees, response to the UNSC-Separatist alliance be, and what would be the rebels opinion and relation to them?--Kre &#39;Nunumee 15:23, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

MJOLNIR VI/V
Well, it looks like all those pictures we thought were SPARTAN-IIIs were really SPARTAN-IIs in their new EVA armor. Too bad. I still hope the SPARTAN-IIIs make it into the game.
 * -- Master Gunnery Sergeant  Hank J Wimbleton IV COMHalo: Galaxy 03:17, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

I still think they may. Who is going to wear the other armor in the campaign? Maria-062? I'm pretty sure she's the only Spartan-II, other than John, that is avaliable. Meaning: Perhaps the Battle of Onyx convinced ONI to not throw away its last Spartan-IIIs and equipped them with MJOLNIR armor. -- ED ( talk )(gaming) 04:12, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't think so, because SPARTAN III may not be capable with the armor, ΜΆŜΤΈŖČΗέÏΣΡΈΤΤΥОΓΓïČëŗ 11:57, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

SPATAN III and SPARTAN II
The Spartan IIIs augmentation seems to have a lot better effect compare to the Spartan IIs, why aren't they superior than Class II? I know Spartan II are equiped with MJOLNIR armor but it wouldn't be a lot different compare to the amount of Covenant soldiers that were facing. ΜΆŜΤΈŖČΗέÏΣΡΈΤΤΥОΓΓïČëŗ 12:01, 10 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Money, money, money. The S-IIIs were meant to be cheaper, faster to train, and with lower mortality rates during the training.  That meant the end quality was somewhat lower, but the result was preferable in the eyes of ONI as they were both expendable and elite. --Forgottenlord 13:00, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

i've got a question, are the S-III's as tall as the S-II's because like in the artical it says that they wern't as picky about the candidates they used, and i no gamma companies like made up of a bunch of 14 year olds but dose the Aurgementation make them taller or am they avarge hight like the S-I's User:Captain-One

S-III Joint UNSC Army Navy project
Ackerson is or was apart of the UNSC Army this could mean that the army wanted to get involved in the spartan program or the navy allowed them to. But the interesting thing to me is that Wouldn't the army try to make there own S-II? Its seems that the spartan three program seems more like another Project Orion because from what im able to figure in my mind is that the UNSCDF is trying to make a tougher stronger war fighter to par above or around the elites. Also I think Grey team is with the army right now Ackerson seems like he knows what he is doing or maybe ackerson's handler (supiorior) wants his own S-II's

Hmm. You know, I actually agree with you, at least about the Spartan III's in the Army rather than the Navy.  Specops306 ,  Kora 'Morhek  19:20, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

what is the armour called?
what is the spartan 3 armour called? i know in the books it says its semi powered infiltration armout but in halo 3 it is called E.V.A. whats up wit that?


 * They're not the same armors. -- <font color="Black">Sgt. <font color="Black">johnson  03:14, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

O OK i get it... well where do the other armours come from and what is the mark V? is it better than mark IV??? and the ninja armour? where did that come from?

Mark V is Halo 1 Armor, the Ninja armor was a side project of Project: MJOLNIR, called Project: HAYABUSA. -- <font color="Black">Sgt. <font color="Black">johnson  03:38, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Delta Company
Should it be noted that prior to the Sentinel attacks, there was a Delta Company on its way to Onyx? Kap2310 23:51, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

MIA-KIA
OK, What is up with all of these IPs saying that the S-IIIs were KIA? Their program was never public, and so, they could be listed as KIA. If you see anything listed as "MIA", change it to "KIA". -- <font color="Black">Sgt. <font color="Black">johnson  00:34, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Their very existence as SPARTANs was hidden, so classing them as MIA rather than KIA is unnecessary. Only the last few were counted as MIA by Kurt, who felt that they deserved it. And remember, most of those kids would have been thought of as deceased quite a while ago anyway, due to no information on their continuing existence being known. In summary: All are KIA apart from those Kurt listed as MIA, who were also KIA. -- Fore  run  ner  15:57, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Non Sequiter
There's been a big deal about whether the Spartan-III's are Reclaimers, given the Sentinel's response. However, I think the big point is that it used the phrase "Non Sequitur", which is a form of false logic.

It's like saying, for example, that "If i'm in Tokyo, therefore, I must be in Japan" and reversing that so that it reads "I am not in Tokyo, therefore I am not in Japan."

The same could be said here. It had trouble determining whether Ash was a Reclaimer. But that doesn't mean he isnt, only that the Sentinels programming has logic problems.  Specops306 ,  Kora 'Morhek  19:31, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

SIII Image
Uploaded a higher res version, so it is less pixelated. Diaboy 15:48, 28 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh, sweet. Thanks. -- <font color="Black">Sgt. <font color="Black">johnson  16:59, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Similarities and suggestions
I really think the SPARTAN III should have energy shields at least. I mean, otherwise they're just ODSTS with weaker armor and cloaking. Also, did anyone else notice the similarities between the SPI Armor helmet and the head of a pfor warrior? That's the reason the Spartan -III-s were created in the first place; the Spartan -II- program was way over budget. Just the development cost for the Mark IV armour cost as much as a battlegroup of ships, billions and billions of cR.

spartan III
what halo 3 armor permutation mix looks like spartan III armor?

Extra-Vehicluar-Activity armour AKA MJOLNIR Mk VI powered assault-armour/v varient AKA EVA armour looks a bit like it. i knows my nameses - Seargeant Maiar / Minor Domo Asgle 'Motosee

SPI Armor
It is never said what the armor looks like in the books. Dr. Hasley said it resembled ODST armor because she thought they were ODST's fielding camo armor. The armor on the cover could all be Spartan-II becasue Spartans do wear varients. One is Mark V, Mark VI, and a different variant. There can't be Mark V because Kurt choose not to wear it. So I think the cover does not correspond with the story.-Crimson Knight
 * The armor on the cover is in fact SPI armor. While the armor doesn't truly correspond with the story, they are still Kelly, Kurt, and a S-III.XRoadToDawnX 04:47, 20 March 2009 (UTC)


 * No, the Mark V one is Kelly, the Mark VI one could be Fred, Will or Linda and the one in SPI armor is a Spartan-III or Kurt. <font face="Comic Sans MS"> 3vil  D3m0n   <font face="Comic Sans MS"> Don't worry, I'm not really evil... 15:28, January 24, 2010 (UTC)

Also, I have 2 sayin Reach, it looks like u have a version of MJOLNIR armor instead of SPI. (just a thought)SPARTAN-III leader 17:36, March 27, 2010 (UTC)

Introduction
I saw that the sentence "Had become the stuff of legend." was improper, so I changed it to "Had become the words of legend.". It was changed back and I am slightly annoyed at this.

EM

Words of legend makes no sense. SPARTAN -G024 (The Unsung Hero) 20:01, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Any alternatives?

EM

Stuff of legend is fine. SPARTAN -G024 (The Unsung Hero) 14:51, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

ODST/shitty luck
those are looking at the damage spartan IIIs can take should buy halo 3 ODST because sIII armor has a similar protection factor to ODST armor. also the sIIIs look sucky because they had shitty luck. alpha company only had mark 1 armor, beta company faced 7 covenant capital ships (not even chiefy could survive that.) and gamma company faced the forerunners technology which is about five times as dangerous as the covenants plus they also faced a covenant army AND half of gamma company was somewhere else. so spartans IIIs were extremely effective they just had shitty luck

The Chief would find a way thankyou very much. Plus, he was a reclaimer and VERY lucky. And, they were mass produced and highly expendable, S-III's were designed to go in and get massacred.--Kre &#39;Nunumee 06:36, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

yeah, i know. but all im saying is alpha company might not have been massacred if they had mk II, beta might have survived if there werent covie ships which screwed up there plans and gamma might have done better if the rest of gamma was there. so yes they are designed to be massacred and take a whole lot of covenant with them, but it dosent meen that the unsc engineered them to die, they are still trained to survive. problem is, they were up against huge odds and under the circumstances it was virtually imposssible for them to survive. so conclusion: awesome soldiors, shit luck.--58.172.25.191 08:36, October 7, 2009 (UTC)

WTF?
THe page show a picture of Noble Team and in the article, it says taht they wear 'MJOLNIR' Armor. Isn't Noble Team SPARTANs-II?Ketsumaye 00:19, January 12, 2010 (UTC)


 * With the exception of Jorge-052, they're all Spartan III's, from either Alpha or, in Kat and the Lieutenant's case, Beta company. I do agree, though, the image of the SPI from Ghosts of Onyx was a better representation of the S-III's as a whole. --  Administrator  Specops306  -   Qur'a 'Morhek   00:20, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

Ok, i was thinking of Jorge when i said that, thanks.Ketsumaye 00:38, January 12, 2010 (UTC)


 * Wait, I thought all the Spartan-III's died... WIth the two exceptions, of course. What happened? --Fluffball Gato 00:42, January 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Bungie:My guess is that these guys are the only survivors of Alpha Company, not counting Kat who was part of Beta Company,(only one left besides the other two). Sith-venator Wavingstrider  ( Commlink ) 00:50, January 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Don't forget Noble Six, he's from Beta Company. - Halo-343   ( Talk )   ( Contribs )   ( Edits )  00:54, January 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ihhh im only Human. But ya our third mute too, any theories how our mute and Kat survived Pegasi? Sith-venator Wavingstrider ( Commlink ) 00:58, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

They'll come with something, like "on a seperate mission" or "escaped a different way". Either way I am excited. --Sgt.T.N.Biscuits 01:19, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

I thought SPARTAN-III's had to wear SPI armor because it was cheaper than MJOLNIR, sure they were about equal in speed and strength (not reflexes however), but with this on they're basically SPARTAN-II's, where's the fun in that? - Kluutak 22:16, January 13, 2010 (UTC)

Does anyone have proof that the armor Noble Team wears is indeed Mark V? It could just be some prototype armor, think about Black Team, their armor looked a lot like Mark VI but it wasn't, how are we so sure this is Mark V? <BIG><font face="Comic Sans MS"> 3vil  D3m0n  </BIG> <font face="Comic Sans MS"> Don't worry, I'm not really evil... 09:08, January 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * You seen the leaked pics? There's a shield meter. Unless SPI was refitted to have shields, I suppose that's pretty much Mk V. PX1'7'3 12:42, January 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * Just because it has shields doesn't mean it's Mark V, Black Team's armor also had shields and that was Mark V nor VI. <BIG><font face="Comic Sans MS"> 3vil  D3m0n  </BIG> <font face="Comic Sans MS"> Don't worry, I'm not really evil... 13:45, January 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * That was because it was a Mk VI prototype. So it pretty much still falls under Mk VI. Late reply, no? PX1'7'3 12:32, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

Number of Spartan-III's
Recently released new Halo materials have now called into question just how many Spartan-III's there are/were. Our original understanding is such: Alpha and Beta Companies each had more than 400 candidates, and exactly 300 graduated as Spartan-III's. All 300 of Alpha and all but 2 of Beta were killed in Operation: PROMETHEUS and Operation: TORPEDO respectively. All of the 330 of the Gamma candidates became Spartans, and except for those involved in the Battle of Onyx, their status is unknown. That means a total of 930 Spartan-IIIs. Halo: Reach and Headhunters (Short Story) have complicated this.

I'll start with Halo: Reach. Save for Jorge, all the members of Noble Team are Spartan-IIIs from Alpha and Beta. We know that Kurt and Mendez were able to avoid handing a few of their soldiers over to Ackerson to be sent on a suicide mission. So in Alpha Class were there 300 Spartans, plus Carter, Emile and Jun? Or are they included in the three hundred, and as such fewer than 300 were actually sent on PROMETHEUS. The same goes with Beta, Noble Six and Catherine, and TORPEDO.

The Headhunter program further complicates things. We don't know which class they were drawn from; it could have been any or all of them. However we do know that at the progam's height there was a maximum contingent of six squads (pairs) with a total of seventeen soldiers in to fill gaps when half or all of a team was lost in the field. Halo: Evolutions states that they were taken from the Spartan-III program but fails to stipulate whether this was before or after their "graduation" as full Spartans.

So which do I think is most likely? Well, I find it very hard to believe that a man as meticulous as Ackerson would fail to notice that he was supplied with even one fewer than the 300 Spartan-III's he was promised for PROMETHEUS or TORPEDO. Ghosts of Onyx is also very clear that there were exactly 300 Spartan-IIIs deployed at both these battles. It therefore seems far more likely that on both occaisions Kurt and Mendez trained 300 Spartans, plus a few extras they didn't tell Ackerson about, and didn't hand over to him. The language of this memo seems to support this view.

As for the Headhunters? Really either could be true. Once again we know that 300 Spartans fought in Prometheus and Torpedo; therefore the headhunters being part of the 300 is unlikely because we know that at least two, and almost certainly more were killed in Headhunter missions. Thus this would leave a shortfall. So if the Headhunters were taken from Alpha or Beta Companies, they were almost certainly seperated during training and there were 300 regulars + the Headhunters. However if they came from Gamma company they would have to be part of the class 330, because every candidate "graduated." There would be noone else to recruit. Coming from Gamma is problematic however because they were just about to graduate at the time of the Battle of Onyx; there likely wouldn't have been time to launch a series of headhunter operations before that happened.

So in conclusion what is the most likely scenario for the number of Spartan-IIIs? In my opinion: 300(Alpha Company) + 3(Carter, Emile, & Jun) + 300(Beta Company) + 2(Noble Six & Catherine) + 330(Gamma Company) + (Thom-293) + (17 or more Headhunters) = 953 or more Spartan-IIIs. There may even be a few more Spartans that Kurt and Mendez were able to sneak out of the program.

Any thoughts?--<font color="Blue">Rusty <font color="Red">- UserWiki:Rusty-112|<font color="Blue">112 ]] 07:41, February 10, 2010 (UTC)

Your argument is one that I have been pondering over for the past few months as well. I really wish the authors of the novels, the Halo Legends producer, Halo Wars, and Bungie could of gotten on the same page, so there wouln't be any of this mess. I mean it doesn't just stop with the Spatan III's, look at the Spartan II's, there's only 33, right? But there are more than 33 named Spartan II's between all the books, Halo Wars, and in Halo Legends- google Spartan II in Halopedia. It's like they're just making up stuff now, to keep it going. I wouldn't be suprised that in the future, there will be even more discrepencies. I love Halo, I just wish the authors would of left some breathing room in the Spartan story lines, so there could be future work with the franchise.

AUGMENTATION PROCEDURES
Just out of curiousity, would it be possible to find more information on the augmentation procedures undertaken by the Spartan-III units? It just seems a little skimpy in the article. I am really interested to see how their strength, speed, endurance etc. compares to the Spartan-IIs, the elites, and the brutes, especially with the Halo: Reach beta so close to being released. Thanks! TheDudeMarky 06:00, April 15, 2010 (UTC)

Noble Team's company tags: Non-conjectural speculation
All SPARTAN-IIs were conscripted by companies; some at the age of four, some approaching eleven.

Jorge - is a spartan-II and is the only spartan-II in noble team.

Carter - Alpha Company. Although he was born in 2520, he was no doubt brought in to Alpha Company. Why? The whole SPARTAN-III concept had only just been approved by ONI earlier that year. Furthermore, He would have been 18 had he joined Gamma Company. ONI were also said to be running low on canidates and didn't want to "take" those that were in the outer colonies(that were under attack) because of the issues it would create with the public. It is likely that Bungie moved these characters' ages up from the 4-5 average of S-IIIs to keep it out of controversy. In a sci-fi novel; that's ok. In a game; the backstory of 4 year olds being taught to kill leads to angry mothers and strong cases of Jack Thompson's disease.

Kat - Beta Company. She was born in 2530; making her 7 when the company was founded. She would have been 1 when Alpha began; too young. Gamma is still in training during the Battle of Reach and all around the ages of 12, thus she is far too old to be a Gamma.

Emile - Alpha Company. He would have been around 8 when Alpha was founded, and 14 for Beta. Eridanus II had been glassed around 2530, meaning that he was a war-orphan for one year before being found; a reasonable-amount of time. If he was with Beta, his disappearance would have been noticeable after seven years.

Jun - Alpha Company. Born in 2524, Jun would be 7 when Alpha was founded, and 13 when Beta was founded. Kurt acknowledges that some of Alpha Company may be Harvest refugees on page 70, Harvest being glassed in 2525.

--  Fore  run  ner  14:59, April 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * OK i am really confused about the spartan 3s age ex lucy is 12 during ghost of onxy and spartan-b312 is 22 durinf the fall of reach, please explain.


 * She was 12 in the 2545 part. The novel is set in 2552, but contains flashbacks. In the main story, she is around 19.--  Fore  run  ner  23:28, April 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * What is this new BS about Noble and Carter and Emile and crap in Alpha Company being active in Reach and not being KIA. In Ghosts of Onyx it clearly states that Alpha Company suffered 100% casualties 68.123.181.129 03:01, April 29, 2010 (UTC)Ian
 * It is THEIR story. They can write the details however they want and they want Alpha Company members alive on Reach in Noble Team. Also next time put it in a relevant section or start a new one, talks about augmentation is not relevant to your complaint. --Revan&#39;s Exile 05:54, April 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * okay so far what i understand is that alpha company took heavy losses originally. (i'm aatctually reading ghosts of onyx at the moment). only two survived from the original beta commpany, tom and lucy. then it seems that these other spartan threes are a rag-tag group from deffrint companies put together to reform alpha company.Darasuum-AL 15:51, May 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Shortly after my original post, the Halo: Reach Beta trailer came out. It confirmed at Carter was in Alpha company. He was in Alpha company under an official capacity until some time after the augmentations, where he was moved into a specialist group. After Alpha's loss and Beta's graduation, Noble team is formed.--  Fore  run  ner  15:56, May 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * what was Jorge's organization. this is confusing...he's the only spartan-II in noble teamDarasuum-AL 15:37, June 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * what was Jorge's organization. this is confusing...he's the only spartan-II in noble teamDarasuum-AL 15:37, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

Spartan-IIIs: Cheaper, Younger, WEAKER...
So I was play some Halo: Reach Beta and I can't help but notice that Spartan-IIIs are actually weaker than they look. The shield bar make the sparatn feel impenetratable but actually half of the shield bar so they ARE impenetratable. One Rocket about 3 or 4 metres away, BAM! they're dead and the health bar (not shield bar), you can only get a glimpse of the health bar reducing before you die. So cheaper, younger, yes. But weaker, that was probably the key to more Spartan-IIIs. But are they more team players or lone wolves because I remember playing Invasion and was tight to my group and we DOMINATED so why? Anyone got a theory? Post a comment. -- WARRANT_OFFICER:_JORGE-052  <font color="Green">CONTACT_CLEARENCE_ACCEPTED |undefined


 * Well, I'm not sure why your team's performance in the game would reflect on the behavior of SPARTAN-IIIs in the Halo saga. However, you are correct in assuming that S-IIIs are team players. For more background on them and their tactics, read Halo: Ghosts of Onyx.
 * As to weakness, Halo: Reach doesn't really reflect the basic S-III in their ability to survive. Most Threes wore a different armor system called Semi-Powered Infiltration Armor, or SPI. The Threes in Halo: Reach wear a modified version of the armor worn by S-IIs, the MJOLNIR system. The SPI armor doesn't feature shields like MJOLNIR and can't take as much punishment. CarpeJugulum 22:38, May 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * I think the problem's you've found with the S-III character models were probably just gameplay modifications on Bungie's part, and in-universe a result of using the Mark V. For one thing, Bungie have already responded to complaints, increasing run speed and jump height because of player concerns. For another, remember that we've been playing as Spartans in the Mark VI suit for so long that we've forgotten what it was like to be in its predecessor. Canonically,t here's no reason why the S-III's should be slower, weaker, less skilled etc. than the S-II's other than experience, which Noble Team has in buckets. Most may have been smaller, because of the inferior genetic parameters, but augmentation reduces them to a level playing field.
 * In general, S-III's had to make better use of teamwork than S-II's because they lacked powered MJOLNIR armour and shields. Headhunters, though, work in pairs and are more solitary. And let's not forget Noble Six, the "Lone Wolf". --  Specops306   Autocrat     Qur'a 'Morhek   04:06, July 1, 2010 (UTC)

Better or Worse
After reading through this page and various other pages, I still have no solid answer as to whether Spartan III's are worse than or equal to Spartan II's. So are Spartan II's and Spartan III's comparable to Clone Commandos and Clone ARC Troopes respectively?~ <font face="Freshbot">Kuhgrok 'Anthormee    01:38, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

Pretty much. the spartan 2s are heavily trained, precise, have low numbers, and are very expensive to produce. the s-3s are well trained (somewhere betwen basic soldier and s-2) have much higher numbers which they use to crush their enemy rather than use precision, and are highly expendable to the point where almost an entire company of 300 troops can be wiped out and the program leaders can just say 'looks like its time to train the new guys.'Kre &#39;Nunumee 16:58, August 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm still confused about this. They are meant to be cheaper, but are they really not as well trained? Could it be that they are just given lesser equipment? It would make sense if they were lesser trained, and I would prefer it that way. Otherwise Master Chief would be obsolete.


 * The training's the same. They're just given a cheaper armour system. A lot of the SPARTAN budget went to PROJECT: MJOLNIR.-- Forerunner 16:21, August 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * Ah, but the SPARTAN-IIs were hand-picked, and the IIIs were not.PotatoBird 19:02, September 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * That doesn't really mean anything.--  Fore  run  ner '' 19:03, September 6, 2010 (UTC)

The SPARTAN-II's and SPARTAN-III's are fairly similar. The SPARTAN-III's received more rigorous training, more emphasized against the Covenant (something the SPARTAN-II's lack, though made up for in pure experience to the point of being inconsequential). The both received similar augmentations, though SPARTAN-III's are arguably superior, with safer application as well as some augments having been improved since the first time around. On top of that, Project CHRYSANTHEMUM augmented them further more to be capable of surviving situations that should send a typical soldier into shock. Selection process would be a more substantial difference, with the SPARTAN-II program requiring specific candidates (resulting in soldiers with favorable genetic traits), in contrast to the SPARTAN-III program which conscripted orphans (mental states can be called into question, as it is conceivable they could let anger get in the way of things or something similar without proper assessment and treatment. They could also contain less-than-favorable genetic traits and anomalies.) Though, even those differences aren't too significant to suggest superiority.

As Forerunner stated, most of the money involved in the SPARTAN-II program was used on Project MJOLNIR, which is what made the SPARTAN-II program unfavorable through the UNSC. The training and such for the SPARTAN-III program did not have the same issues. And this is where one of two major differences arise. The SPARTAN-II's received the MJOLNIR battle armor for use in combat, where as the SPARTAN-III's were given SPI armor. While still a decent set of armor, it is nothing compared to the MJOLNIR armor which further improves the user's capabilities. However, Halo: Reach demonstrates that certain SPARTAN-III's can be given similar armor for their usage, essentially negating the difference if the UNSC is generous.

The other difference is their overall application. SPARTAN-II's were deployed in small teams for high profile targets, and had a fairly successful track record for that. The SPARTAN-III's did not have this same luxury, being given suicidal missions.

Technically speaking, if given MJOLNIR armor and sent on less than suicidal missions, the SPARTAN-III's are marginally superior, due to more effective Covenant training and augmentations. Though, in the end, they are essentially on the same level, just for different usage.XRoadToDawnX 20:44, September 6, 2010 (UTC)

Cat-II numbers
With the confirmation that there were not one but at least four (and likely more) "cat-2" SPARTAN-III teams pulled from their original companies, in addition to the Headhunters, there's a years-old question that needs to be addressed. With Alpha and Beta companies graduating 300 Spartans and then having all those 300 partake in PROMETHEUS and TORPEDO, where do the cat-2 Spartans fit in? The most obvious conclusion is that they were excluded from their companies' personnel counts before augmentation and officially listed among the "washouts". We know they had plenty of extras; 197 with Alpha and 118 with Beta. While Alpha and Beta "officially" augmented only 300, the cat-2s could've received their augmentations separate from the mainline company. Could there be some truth to Birth of a Spartan's depiction of Carter's augmentations being performed in a more isolated theater after all?

However, at least some of them were appearently culled post-augmentation; Kurt notes that they got B312 out "directly after training" (whether this is before or after the augmentations is up for question; at least Gamma was still training a year after their augmentations), while Kat was removed after CARTWHEEL when Beta Company was already in the field. The onset of TORPEDO may also give us some wiggle room. Tom notes that nine of the Spartans had died on impact or on the way down, and while this is perfectly plausible in the situation, it could also be used to an advantage in a retcon; maybe at least some of those nine pods were never deployed at all and their deaths were a cover for some of the extracted Spartans?

In the absence of an official explanation, I'm thinking we should at least put up notes explaining this curiosity in the "size" fields of Alpha and Beta companies' infoboxes. --<font color="MidnightBlue">Jugus (<font color="Gray">Talk  | <font color="Gray">Contribs ) 01:32, 23 February 2015 (EST)


 * I asked Grim about this but I haven't gotten an answer. I'll bring it up again if there's another Community Q&A. I've always held the same theory about Birth of a Spartan so I'll address it as well. -- Our vengeance is at hand. ( Talk to me. ) 07:10, 23 February 2015 (EST)

Fleet Battles
Concerning the Fleet Battles stats table on the page: does Fleet Battles specifically mention that the Spartans in the game are Spartan-IIIs? Superficially it just looks as though they're "Spartans" in a general sense, which could mean either IIs or IIIs especially given the canonically malleable setting of Fleet Battles (as an in-universe simulation). In case there's no specific mention of them being IIIs, the SPARTAN programs page would probably be a more suitable place for the section. On that matter: I've been wondering if it would be better if the "SPARTAN programs" page were renamed just "Spartan" and slightly re-focused on the soldiers themselves. We could keep the page's existing content virtually unchanged but I believe the title would simply be more encompassing for topics that concern Spartans in a general sense but are not tied to the Spartan branch either. --<font color="MidnightBlue">Jugus (<font color="Gray">Talk  | <font color="Gray">Contribs ) 00:06, 24 February 2016 (EST)
 * On the subject of Fleet Battles, I put S-IIIs because the little tokens all use S-IIIs wearing Mark V Operator and using a M6G from Halo: Reach. Sith Venator ( Dank Memes ) 00:19, 24 February 2016 (EST)
 * Then again, Jorge did use a similar model in Reach. If there's no explicit statement that they're meant to be IIIs (as opposed to just "Spartans"), the model doesn't necessarily tell that much in and of itself, being only a representative token. --<font color="MidnightBlue">Jugus (<font color="Gray">Talk  | <font color="Gray">Contribs ) 01:13, 24 February 2016 (EST)
 * On the subject of the name, I agree. Especially since the ORION Project only later became considered a SPARTAN program. -- NightHammer (talk)(contribs) 01:10, 24 February 2016 (EST)