Talk:Jiralhanae

near extinction
Considering that many Jiralhanae joined the military during the great schism, and didn't do much of the labor or intelligent work(cubicle work) I believe about half of them died by the end of the Human-Covenant war. With the continued fighting with Sanghelie and the lack of food availability I assume there are less than 1,000 by 2557 when peace talks begin. Should this be added to the page? I can show the math behind it. -Sallan.


 * Why would the Sangheili, a species perfectly comfortable with eradicating humanity as long as it was for the right reasons, make peace with their hated rivals if they were on the verge of extinction? I don't think you're accounting for the Jiralhanae civilian populations - not every Jiralhanae would have joined up. Even if most of the males did, that still leaves the females. I'm also not sure where you're getting the "lack of food availability" from. --  Qura 'Morhek   The Autocrat     of Morheka   22:18, 15 August 2014 (EDT)

At this point Jul'Madma's group has started another Human-Covenant war because the humans believe all Covenant wanted to aid the Ur-Didact. The Military got so caught up in that that they forgot about the Jiralhanae and were willing to accept help. Some served as Body Guards for Sangheili. Thel'Vadam supported the San'Shyuum but realized he was wrong. he helped other species convert, so why not the Jiralhanae? I'll accept that 5,000 survive. The lack of food availability is mentioned in the article. When the Sangheili returned to self sufficiency the Jiralhanae put all there power into the military and stole supplies from other species.-Sallan


 * Well, considering that the Brutes could survive all those civil wars on one planet even before joining the Covenant, I'm sure they could also survive whatever issues/problems thrown at them after the fall of the Covenant throughout the Orion Arm.
 * Oh, sign your comments using the four tildes . — subtank   09:52, 17 August 2014 (EDT)


 * I'm not sure where you are pulling the 1,000 to 5,000 number from. But I can guess. Their homeworld contains billions of them. They have been raiding colonies for supplies... and as of 2559 are still fighting each other and the Sangheili. You have absolutely no evidence to support them being near extinction. There is no debate to be had here. All existing canon suggests that they are still a threat to the galaxy. ProphetofTruth (talk) 10:47, 17 August 2014 (EDT)


 * I understand I was wrong and that they are still strong, but I would not call it a threat. They easily be defeated by Humans and Sangheili and are unlikely to do much damage without the San'ShyuumSallan (talk) 23:21, 30 August 2014 (EDT)Sallan

Skeins, master-packs and alpha tribes
Currently, the article makes rather many assumptions as to the relationship between "Alpha Tribes" and "master-packs". Truth is, we don't know how these two relate to one another or if, as I suspect, they're in fact synonymous. The Waypoint article for Jiralhanae introduces the concept of meta-clans or "skeins", which I believe are just another word for master-packs or alpha tribes (as the Waypoint article describes two skeins going to war with one another whereas previously Contact Harvest described the civil war as having taken place between master-packs). Given that the term "Alpha Tribe" has only appeared once and Jiralhanae society isn't particularly inclined for complex structures (like having many different levels of meta-pack), I believe we could safely regard the three as different names for the same form of social grouping. --Jugus (Talk  | Contribs ) 10:16, 23 November 2014 (EST)
 * I agree with the Alpha Tribe/Master-Pack are probably one and the same, but I'm not so sure on the master-pack/skein idea. Catalog mentioned that Lydus was Chieftain of a master-pack, so that term is still being used at least. The master-packs seem to be clans/familial units, but the skeins appear to be more like philosophies, perhaps formed by developing in different regions of Doisac. -- SFH (talk) 13:13, 23 November 2014 (EST)
 * That is possible and it's probably better for us to play it safe, but it's odd that the new Waypoint entry doesn't bother mentioning the master-packs at all. --Jugus (Talk  | Contribs ) 13:27, 23 November 2014 (EST)
 * Much of Waypoint's universe section still hasn't been finished. A lot of subjects are still missing entries, so it's possible that the current entries are missing some information. -- SFH (talk) 13:37, 23 November 2014 (EST)


 * Agreed with SFH on skeins. The wiki definition makes its possible applicability vague at best, but it's probably more like the East/West divide in human international politics than formal diplomatic alignment. As for Alpha tribes/Master-Packs, I'm inclined to think that they represent the difference between planetary governments and nation-states - Alpha representatives clearly have the authority to negotiate for at least planet-level groups, possibly interstellar groups, while Master-Packs are described in terms more reminiscent of planet-bound nations. Lydus is the chief contradiction, but the Jiralhanae are on the brink of collapse at this point, and I don't find it difficult to believe that the leader of a single Master-Pack is one of the highest-ranking officials left after years of Sangheili retribution. --  Qura 'Morhek   The Autocrat     of Morheka   18:50, 23 November 2014 (EST)


 * I concede my point about the skeins, but the difference between alpha tribes and master packs still seems trivial to me at best, particularly since both terms are so close to one another in definition. I get what you're saying about a (possible) distinction, but we have to keep in mind that our reference pool isn't exactly huge with a total of one mention of the alpha tribes and two of master-packs, one of the latter in a context very similar to the earlier use "alpha tribes". And variable terminology isn't exactly something unheard of either—even the basic Jiralhanae groupings have been called many things (packs, tribes and clans). --Jugus (Talk  | Contribs ) 10:36, 24 November 2014 (EST)

Major edits
I'm currently working on updating this article and generally cleaning it up. I was wondering if anyone would be against me revamping the "Command structure" to make it more in-line with the similar sections on the Kig-Yar and Sangheili articles. There seems to be an adequate amount of information for it, plus I find that it looks more appealing when it is formatted way. Not to mention that some of the ranks listed in the section are either conjecture or don't exist. - NightHammer (talk) 21:01, 18 December 2014 (EST)
 * Absolutely. No reason to have this article diverge from the new format (it's also nice to hear this is getting a long-overdue overhaul).--Jugus (Talk  | Contribs ) 07:22, 19 December 2014 (EST)
 * Okay, cool. I should be finished updating the article sometime tomorrow. - NightHammer (talk) 23:53, 19 December 2014 (EST)