Talk:Elites (Sangheili)/Archive2

elite with no armor
where did u get the elite with no armor pic?  яÏΜFÏяΣ  the rebelious anarchist  Phencyclodine | undefined Tetryl  21:15, 10 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Dojorkan modded Halo 2 so he could take screenshots of various poses of an Elite with the naked Arbiter skin seen in the cinematics. While the poses themselves are non-canon, the skin was made by Bungie so I think it works in the article. --Dragonclaws 21:21, 10 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Both the elite in THAT picture DO have armor. -confused-
 * The picture to the right is from a previous thread. The picture we are talking about is here. --Dragonclaws 21:34, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

But Dragonclaws is indeed right. I dont know what you mean by poses though, Dragonclaws. I didnt change their animations or reposition their limbs in any way. --Dojorkan 21:29, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I just meant the way you moved the characters around. In the actual storyline, an Elite does not jump around the Council Chambers naked while waving a sword. --Dragonclaws 21:33, 10 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Taken out of context(since we are talking about naked arbiter), waving a sword almost sounds like something else. XD Anyways -ahem-.

I was actually playing as him. =P And I actually didnt notice that picture was used in this article until now. --Dojorkan 01:35, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps we should put it in the trivia section of this article since it is a "easter egg" sort of thing, it was not put into the game by bungie, and obviously it is not canon material. If, however, you chose to write a section about elite's physiology that picture perhaps could go in there, if you can get more professional pictures, that would be awesome. Black Mercy 22:39, 26 February 2007 (UTC)


 * What's an easter egg? Easter eggs are things creators (Bungie) put their their products for consumers to find. The nude Arbiter pics are for the Elite anatomy section, and have never had descriptions claiming they were from canon scenes. -- Dragonc laws ( talk ) 20:37, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Age + Lifespan
Has there ever been anything that might hint to how long Sangheili live? I've always wondered this...--Shch &#39;Nodotee 01:43, 11 January 2007 (UTC)


 * You know that right there is a very good question. Since elites are generally repitillians (reptiles), I'd specifically guess that they gnerally live about as long as a human. Reptiles sometimes live longer and live shorter but it's usually a blend. I'm guessing.Halo3 03:00, 13 January 2007 (UTC)--Halo3


 * They're reptilian? Where do we hear that?  guesty - persony - thingy  03:00, 13 January 2007 (UTC)


 * First of all they look like they have scales. Second they are most likely carnivourous as the have the four mandible with the sharp teeth. Third the way the eyes are shaped look like reptile eyes. Fourth, the elites head just has that reptiles look.Halo3 06:20, 13 January 2007 (UTC)--Halo3


 * Okay... I dunno about scales, and I have hi-res pictures of naked Arby. Also, being carnivorous doesn't make you a reptile; for example, I eat meat, but I'm not a reptile. I'm a mammal (or, according to Smith, a virus), so that really doesn't mean anything. Also also, I haven't really looked at the eyes, so there. Also also also, looking at the actual shape, rather than textures, can really tell you a whole lot more, so you might be right. But we don't really know, but since that's the best info we've got, the most we can assume is that it's somewhere near, as you say, a human's life expectancy. Also also also also, please don't make new sections in one continuous discussion. Instead click the edit button all the way to the right of where it says "age + lifespan," go right below the edit you're replying to, and put one more colon at the beginning than the post you're replying to. Thanks! But my point is, we just don't really know, so I don't think it should go into the article just yet, but maybe later, once we've got just a little more concrete evidence. =D  guesty - persony - thingy  06:30, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

The Elites' do look reptilian, theres not really any features on an Elite that look mammal-like. They look more reptilian, their skin is more scaley (not proper scales, but has a blend of scale features in their skin) and rough, their eyes are similar to crocodile eyes. User: Joshua 029

Elites do not have scales, included in their combat armor is a skin-tight suit that has a scaly pattern which covers there body and stops at mid-neck. User:Wulfeh

Armada?
Where did it even say that the Imperial Admiral commanded an armada in the first place? All Xytan did was combine 2 fleets of warships. That doesn't make him higher in rank than the former arbiter when he was supreme commander anyways.Halo3 06:25, 13 January 2007 (UTC)--Halo3

Elite Image Storage
 Image:Elites talking.JPG|Elite using a jet pack Image:MinorElite9.jpg|Dancing Elite Image:Zealot.jpg|Another Zealot picture Image:B 19.png|Another Zealot picture  Perhaps we could consider throwing it away since there are better examples of rangers and honor guards as well as elites in general, we have enough pictures (we don't need any more fluff pics), so I think we should just throw it away, it is useless. Black Mercy 22:36, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
 * If space becomes an issure in the future then we can erase it but for now we'll just keep it in storage. -- Esemono 01:09, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Uhm, Do you mean trowing away all of these? Or just one of them? Since you said "It" but there are several Elite pictures. Myself i think that the second from the Left could be trown away but not the rest.[[Image:MinorElite5.jpg|14px]] Cowardly EliteVtar 'Kakumee[[Image:Wiki CoH.PNG |14px]]--

Title, not Rank? -Supreme Commander
Is it possible that the Spec Ops Commander was just being respectful to his commanding officer, and not calling him by rank but rather a title, like sir or officer? Now granted i'll admit i've not read the graphic novel, so i can't know for sure, but from what i've seen here it sounds more like a title not rank. Cause what's the real diffence between a Fleet Master and a Supreme Commander?--Shch &#39;Nodotee 17:13, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

The Fleet Master only commands many ships during an special objective that not needs all the ships in the fleet.


 * Ok, but how do we know that the artists weren't just trying to make the Arbiter look different from other elites. Not only that, but the artists weren't entirely correct when they drew the elites. Some had pink skin, i've never even heard of a "pink" elite, also some had different colored armor. --Shch &#39;Nodotee 00:20, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

What are you trying to say? Faraz22 18:04, 24 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure the Supreme Commander is an actual rank. I think it may be a title. I think the Supreme Commander in the comic may actually be something else, like an Imperial Admiral or Fleet Master. Although i may be wrong, but i'm not sure yet. --Shch &#39;Nodotee 17:59, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
 * In the Halo 2 special edition manual, there is a letter to the Prophet of Truth from "Supreme Commander, Fleet of Paticular Justice" so I'd say it's a title. --Dragonclaws(talk) 20:05, 24 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Ok. So Dragonclaws and i both believe it's a title, not rank. Is there anyone else that argees with us? I just don't feel it has enough supportable proof to be allowed to be a rank yet. Most examples point to it being a title, like sir. Also, when you compare Supreme Commander to Imperial Admiral, there's pretty much no difference, only amrour color, which could be different for each Imperial Admiral. --Shch &#39;Nodotee 22:46, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the confusion. I meant it's probably a rank because he signs a letter with it, rather than a name of respect by his underlings. You would call a Duke "Your grace," but he wouldn't sign his name that way. --Dragonclaws(talk) 22:56, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Imperial Admiral and Supreme Commander are different ranks, with Admiral outranking Commander, and there's a significant increase in responsibilty. Think of it this way: Colonels command about 2000 troops, while Brigadier Generals (only one step higher) control about 3000. See, huge difference. Respect them Grunts, --Mouse among men 03:05, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

So i'm guessing that an imperial admiral controls one really big fleet or more than one fleet while a supreme commander only controls one fleet thats not as big as the imperial admiral's fleet. --User:Jacket023 20:37, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Conversation from.
Can you write down the conversation between the supreme commander and truth please?Halo3 20:59, 24 January 2007 (UTC)--Halo3


 * There already here on Halopedia. --Shch &#39;Nodotee 22:43, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't think so, just the Conversations from the Universe.

To the Prophet of Truth Most high and honored Prophet: It is with greatest shame that I lay myself before the judgement of the Council. I expect and will accept no mercy. My failure in this matter is absolute; I embrace my responsibility and my punishment.

The disgrace and blasphemy at Halo as an abomination caused by my incompetence and failure of judgement. Although the tales and rumors of the Demon have basis in fact, much of this talk is Unggoy superstition and exaggeration. Certainly the Demon, a Human, activated a catastrophic engine- failure sequence on the crashed Human vessel, but it was allowed to do so because of failures in security and tactics for which I bear full responsibility.

I have no good news to relay, but the Human action was suicidal, either by accident or design. I believe none escaped the catastrophe.

As ever, Jiralhanae accounts of the conflict are unreliable and their accounts of this Human's abilities and actions are absurd. No Human is capable of the things they gossip and chatter about. I suspect panic and excuse, as well as confusion caused by the spread of the parasite.

The Human in question is certainly unusual, although not the creature it has been described as. It stands taller than most, is faster and more aggressive, but still irrevocably a Human animal, worthy of neither fear nor respect. It is merely an exception that proves the rule. As always, Humans remain beneath our contempt. Their failure at Reach compounds their defeat. We sense that their defenses are failing rapidly. I have gathered information on the Human's armor, abilities, and weapons, which follows this report.

Perhaps more worrisome is the discovery and subsequent conflict with the parasite on Halo. This monstrosity festered, rotted, and waited on the Holy World, and although we cannot be sure, the Humans may have released it from its shackles. I do not presume to know the unknowable, but I suspect that the Forerunners meant this filth to stay imprisoned forever. The sacred grace of Halo was polluted before it was destroyed.

I await my punishment with faith and honor.

--Supreme Commander, Fleet of Particular Justice


 * Then the rest of the manual is written by him and has a bit of commentary in parts. Perhaps we should make an article about it. --Dragonclaws(talk) 22:51, 24 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, i see that now. So it is probably an actual rank, but i'm still not convinced that he wore purple armour with a cloak. Not even the Imperial Admiral has a cloak. I think Supreme Commanders probably wear the normal golden armour of a Zealot. As seen in the actual game. --Shch &#39;Nodotee 02:46, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, I think the Succor story is to be taken as accurate. Only Second Sunrise has weird shapes and colors, and in that it is glaringly obvious. --Dragonclaws(talk) 07:47, 25 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Ok. I'm convinced. Thanks Dragonclaws. --Shch &#39;Nodotee 16:04, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you Shch Nodotee for passing that idea on as I have also been spreading that idea.This idea is that the illustrators of the graphic novel altered the appearance of the characters in the graphic novel.Including the supreme commander.Like I said before, imperial admiral and supreme commander are particualrely the same thing.The fourth book of halo(Halo Ghost of Onyx),keeps saying things like, "the FORMER supreme commander"or"the EX-SUPREME COMMANDER".Oh and is there any more of the Coversations from the universe booklet that is not on the Halopedia.I'm blood thirsty for more.Halo3 20:04, 25 January 2007 (UTC)--Halo3


 * It wasn't from Conversations, it was from the special edition of Halo 2's manual. I've started a trascription of it here. --Dragonclaws(talk) 22:24, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

I think that the Imperial Admiral commands larger fleets than a Supreme Commander, and it seems to be a much higher honor of being an Imperial Admiral than a Supreme Commander, so I think that it's not EXACTLY the same thing, although it's very similar. Faraz22 21:25, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Many people say that but the only reason why the imperial admiral in Halo Ghost Of Onyx commanded a larger fleet was only because he combined two fleets without an upgrade in rank or permission/approval as a revolt against the brutes therefore he unofficially commands a larger fleet, he also and originally commanded one fleet about the size of a supreme commanders as there were seperate fleets along with other imperial admirals that commanded them.Like I said the Ghost of Onyx said the "Former"or "the Ex supreme commander" refering to the fact that there the same.I'll bet that if the arbiter combines two fleets that people would end up mistaking his rank too.Halo3 20:55, 25 January 2007 (UTC)--Halo3

I'm still quite sure that it is a difference between Imperial Admiral and Supreme Commander. Eric Nylund wouldn't write them as different ranks for nothing, so, it is a difference, we maybe just not know what difference it is yet, but it will be revealed....I hope! User:Faraz22 22:34, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

I have his e-mail and I will ask him.It is most likely that the two are the same.That wordFormer and Ex that the book uses is the proof. Here is the page of ghost of onyx to find the proof.page 239 it says."For the sin he had been exiled to the fringe worlds of the vast covenant empire.This happened before the FORMER supreme commander of the fleet of particular justice had never returned from the glorius mission the prophets had sent him on." Halo3 20:21, 31 January 2007 (UTC)--Halo3

Armor Difference: Arbiter
Hasn't anyone noticed that the Supreme Commander's armor in the halo graphic novel is diffrent from the halo 2 game? I mean, in the game, when he was being trialed in the High council, he was in zealot gold armor. But in the comic, he was in purple armor. What's up with that? jacket023 11:38, 2 Feburary 2007 (UTC)

He could have changed rank between the novel and the game. User:Faraz22 18:40, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

No he didn't change rank, it was the people who made the novel being creative.For example the elites in the mombassa story had pink skind and pink plasma swords opposed to the dark grey purple skin and the blue white plasma swords.Halo3 20:24, 2 February 2007 (UTC)--Halo3


 * I've already stated that i think the Supreme Commander actually wears golden Zealot armour, not purple cloaked armour. However, i'm not 100% sure, so i won't say anymore on the subject. --User:Donut THX 1138 [[Image:Donut 7.JPG|35px]] 04:59, 3 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Read the Graphic Novel. The Supreme Commander (Arbiter-to-be) is wearing purple armor, complete with robe.

Even if many things says that it wears golden armor, it should only be right if Supreme Commander was an Zealot title, cause if it's an own rank, it would be to easy for it to be taken for a Zealot. --Faraz22-- 11:45, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps it was a gesture of respect like a dress uniform to appear before the Council in the gold suit as opposed to the purple cloaked suit he wears while actually preforming as a Supreme Commander. Similiarly, Johnson wears white at the award ceremony. --Dragonclaws(talk) 11:23, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

No, zealots are completely different and plus bungie never did have the time to actually create halo as it was suppose to be.therefore it's also possible that the arbiter was never really finished off.That is a good guess about how the arbiter was in guess uniform at the time.Oh and by the way, zealot is practically the covenant name for ship master as humans use the name ship master for zealot.Halo3 02:50, 5 February 2007 (UTC)--Halo3

Well it is cannon...and I prefer the Purple armour and cloaks to Zealot Armour....--Gzalzi 06:45, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

If your refering to the graphic novel than no it is not cannon as like I said the elites in new mombassa story had pink skin and pink plasma swords.You can see a difference in the way the flood looks too.It' possible that bungie was in such a hurry to finish that they never had time to finish the armour.Halo3 20:12, 11 March 2007 (UTC)--Halo3

Elite Eggs?
I think that Elites come from eggs, cause they're reptiles, does anyone agree? --Bergenond Amrothee-- 13:15, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Who says they are reptiles?--The Chazz 14:14, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Don't get your hopes up.I myself speculated there reptilian but I'm not sure.Mammals usually have hooves as they do.They are most likely natural hybrids between reptiles and mammals.As for howthey produce they could at least produce asexually or maybe just have one female as a queen.Halo3 16:49, 10 February 2007 (UTC)--Halo3

So just because it has hooves, it's a mammal? I don't think so. The feets don't show if it's a mammal or reptile, the Elites have been evolving having hooves. Just look at the Elites's skin, it's actually reptilian skin. What I mean't with this section was to say that female Elites probably lay eggs, like earth snakes or lizards, and after a while, the small baby Elites hatches from their eggs. Does anyone agree at that point? --Bergenond Amrothee-- 21:21, 10 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Agreed--Gzalzi 06:03, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Unagreed,1st of all I didn't actually state they were mammal as I said they look like they are a hybrid between a mammal and a reptile.2nd we surely do not know how they evolved.3rd is that there has been no case of a reptile having hooves in the first place.4th, elites are not reptilian because of there skin but because of there split pupil eyes and there carniverouse sharp teeth.5th if there skin looked reptilian they would be more scaley but there hase been cases of reptiles with smooth skin.It's the digitgrade legs that also are usually found on mammals.It's fustrating as they look both mammal and reptilian.They have the same amount between and it's almost like trying to decide a bird between a reptile or other class.Halo3 03:13, 12 February 2007 (UTC)--Halo3

As for the hooves, we don't know how exactly they look.Perhaps there hooves are soft and fleshy .That would explain why they wear soled boots in battle.I don't understand as to how they would fit hard hooves into the boots.Like I said,we don't know how they evolved anyways. Halo3 20:13, 12 February 2007 (UTC)--Halo3

I saw a show on the Discovery channel about some ancient reptile with mammilian features like fur. I can't remember much about it now, but I thought it was worth mentioning. --Dragonclaws(talk) 21:08, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Very good point right there.Thanks and cheers.Halo3 22:39, 12 February 2007 (UTC)--Halo3

I don't think they are mammals or reptiles, they probably come from an alien catagory. user:the evil O,malley


 * http://img368.imageshack.us/img368/451/arbiterkneelio7.png


 * Here's a pic of their skin. Show me scales. g u e s t y -p e r s o n y -<font color="#000000">t <font color="#007700">h <font color="#00cc00">i <font color="#00ff00">n <font color="#44ff44">g <font color="#99ff99">y  [[Image:GPersonyThingy.jpeg|19px]] 20:52, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Sgt Marshall: If their females lay eggs, my fan-fic's ruined.

They look very...Uhm...Reptileish, so I think they lay Eggs like reptiles. But maybe they have some strange, distuishting other way to repoduce. Cowardly EliteVtar 'Kakumee--

Gender
can there be some female elites in the military? with high rankings?Sangheili2506 17:27, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

It's possible we may have already seen some females.Some elites have a deep grumbling voice while some have a smoother human voice.For exampl, when that one zealot elite lands after the that one stealth elite in uprising said "The brutes have spilled our brothers blood and for that they must die". a zealot lands.The zealot appears to have a deep grumbling voice.Halo3 23:04, 15 February 2007 (UTC)--Halo3

I have heard an elite say to me when I was playing the level the arbiter "well arbiter I....I...I think you cute too"--The Chazz025 and Clan 23:12, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Wasn't that spec ops commander rtas vadumee?Halo3 02:46, 17 February 2007 (UTC)--Halo3

what? this question-"well arbiter I....I...I think you cute too" if it was Rtas' vandumee dat kinda freaks me out! Sangheili2506 20:03, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

It was just some random elite, not Rtas'--The Chazz025 and Clan 20:25, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

I personally believe that the Covenant is set up so that only the males may fight or acheive political power while the females are put to work raising the next generation, not unlike ancient Rome or Japan. These countries seem to have inspired much of the Covenant, in my opinion. As for the quote, I don't think we can trust any of the combat dialogue, as most of it was intended to be humorous. BTW, note the homosexuality in ancient Rome and Japan. --Dragonclaws(talk) 22:38, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
 * They may not even have genders. Not every race necessarily exists in the same way as humans. They may even procreate asexually. -ED 00:42, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

It's also possible that they don't have male and female, or more than just those two. In star Trek Voyager one of the species as like six diferent genders Kre &#39;Nunumee 20:59, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Generic

 * "Of, applicable to, or referring to all the members of a genus, class, group, or kind; general." I fail to see how this describes Elites. Elites are not applicable to, or referring to all the "warriors and commanders in the unified conglomerate races of the Covenant."
 * "Of, pertaining to, or noting a genus, esp. in biology." We don't know anything about how Elites are classified, so we don't know anything about their species, genus, or any other group therein.

However, I could see how they are generically warriors, because that would mean that, for the most part, that they are warriors. Although even this probably isn't quite true, it's better than saying they are a generic race of warriors.  guesty - persony - thingy  I too am an AI... my owner's name is Supreme Honcho. 22:47, 17 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Perhaps it means the are the most common warriors. Of course, this excepts the Grunts, but they aren't very capable. --Dragonclaws(talk) 23:05, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

opining pic
Just wan a say loving the new picture User:Kami-Sama

Heretic Ranks?
Should we really have Heretic ranks in this article? And, regardless of your answer to that, we should definitely not have Sesa 'Refumee as a rank... it's a guys name, for smeg's sake! So someone needs to find another way to do that.  guesty - persony - thingy  I too am an AI... my owner's name is Supreme Honcho. 22:02, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Agree as per G-P-T --Councilor 'Nodotee [ BattleNet ] 00:16, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I keep removing heretic ranks from Covenant rank templates, but they keep getting re-added. Soneone is not getting the message. -ED 20:32, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Sorry if this may deviate from the above topic a bit, but the placement and format of the heretic rank section in this article looks just plain messy. If we, as the halo-loving community we are, decide to keep that, it needs to be moved upwards with the other ranks, because the template seperating the two really bothers me, makes it look extremely messy and unprofessional-- Black Mercy 22:51, 26 February 2007 (UTC)