Talk:John-117

390
390 POUNDS!? Bullshit. Somebody edit this. I would edit it myself, but I fear the edit would be unmade. -Kluutak 19:20, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

PS: CHanged it to 250, seems like a regular weight. If some spammer reverts it to 390 I will rever it back and contact the admins. You have been warned.


 * 250 pounds? Seems like a regular weight? By god, if you don't know the weight, don't put it in! UNSC Las Vegas [[Image:Mac.jpg|50px]] Orders/Parking tickets/The letters from the Admiral, regarding regarding the Admiral's DaughterMaintenance Records/Insurance details
 * I think he is talking about average SPARTAN weight for SPARTAN Super Soldiers. Due to their ceramic ossification implants, it is likely they are about 70 pounds heavier than an average Human. Three-hundred-ninety is a little much though, that is more than a Sangheili, which have overall more strength and body mass than a SPARTAN.
 * SPARTAN-IIs weigh quite heavy because of their augmentations, as stated above. 250 lbs is actually quite a regular weight for a Spartan.Rollersox 02:44, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * In The Fall of Reach, John's canonical unarmored weight is stated.
 * "It was hard to mistake the Master Chief for anything other than a Spartan. He stood just over two meters tall and weighed in at 130 kilos of rock-hard muscle and iron-dense bone." - Halo: The Fall of Reach, page 217 (in my edition, anyway)
 * This translates to roughly 286 lbs. Spartans are big, yo. I'll cite it and put it on the page. Zita 21:53, August 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * He doesn't...look...285 pounds. Hell, Carter is bigger than him and he's only 250. It is possible this was a typo -- however I guess it stays until the author says otherwise. He has a really thin waist though, he looks really skinny, like 240. --Kluutak 19:44, 24 November 2010 (EST)
 * The halo 3 limited edition bestiarium notes that a Spartan is 179 kilos. iamapersonguy 25/7/2011
 * 179 kilos is an absurd weight assertion, he doesn't have nearly enough body mass to support all of that weight and walk normally. The ground would probably creak every time he walked, remember that MJOLNIR armor, once activated, is nearly weightless. --Kluutak 17:34, 16 February 2012 (EST)
 * The halo 3 limited edition bestiarium notes that a Spartan is 179 kilos. iamapersonguy 25/7/2011
 * 179 kilos is an absurd weight assertion, he doesn't have nearly enough body mass to support all of that weight and walk normally. The ground would probably creak every time he walked, remember that MJOLNIR armor, once activated, is nearly weightless. --Kluutak 17:34, 16 February 2012 (EST)

179 kg is his weight in underamor, I think we should replace the "without augmentations" with the underamor weight.87.97.96.134 07:19, 3 August 2012 (EDT)subjani


 * From an earlier quote of mine on this talk page pertaining to his unaugmented weight:
 * I personally think 286 is a good weight, when including his augmentations - although his biological weight, if his bones were of normal composition and not alloy, would probably be closer to 230-240 pounds, I think the weights of Noble Team given are excluding these proportions as well. When including the ceramic ossification procedures I am sure Carter would probably weigh close to Chief's weight of 280 pounds if we were including the ceramic augmentations. The data I got this number from is Fall of Reach, it is stated the carbide-ceramic ossification procedure is not to exceed 3% of total bone mass. The skeleton weighs roughly 40% of your total body weight, seeing as John-117 is 286 pounds, his skeletal weight would be 114.4 pounds. 286 x .40 x .03 you get 3.43 pounds. There are 206 bones in the adult human body so 3.43 x 206 = 706.99. The procedure is not to exceed 3 percent of the total final skeletal mass so 706.99 x .03 = 21.21. Subtract that from 286 to get 265 pounds, his biological weight, which is what I assume has been brought forth for Noble Team, their biological weight, Jorge's being 320, fully augmented his weight is probably closer to 350. --Kluutak 12:34, 29 September 2012 (EDT)

Upgrade
When did he get Mk VI armor. In the books I own, it never states when. It seems like he should've just had Mk V armor through all the games. - Echoes High Resolution Poor Quality 20:40, July 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * He got it in Halo 2, which is after his appearances in the books. You should play the games as well to get an accurate view on the storyline.--  Fore  run  ner  20:43, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * He can't have Mk V, it's an old version and things change so it would be dangerous to where a helmet that they no longer support. It doesn't function as well as the latest version.RvBrocks1 18:26, July 19, 2010 (UTC)

I know he got it in Halo 2, but it never states when. It makes a spiratic change from Mk V to VI. - Cprl. Echo 1 High Resolution Poor Quality 18:03, July 20, 2010 (UTC) PS: how do you get the Mk V helmet in Halo 3?


 * 20 October 2552. It outright tells you on the FIRST LEVEL what day it is.-- Forerunner 18:29, July 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * "Came from Songnam this morning." - TheLostJedi  15:04, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

Promotion?
Is there any information on when he was promoted the Master Chief? VadersFist666 04:24, August 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * All we know is that he was definitely an MCPO by 2544, during the events of The Package. Nothing has ever stated exactly when his promotion to Master Chief occured, however. --&quot;Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have.&quot; -Thomas Jefferson 04:30, August 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * thanks VadersFist666 04:34, August 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * He was also referred to as "Master Chief" on page 8 of The Fall of Reach (at least the original version), during the Battle of Jericho VII, which means he held the rank of Master Chief in 2535. --Jugus (Talk  | Contribs ) 05:49, August 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * We may find out in the online series halo 4: forward unto dawn cause in the Official Full-length Trailer the young thomas lasky calls out "chief". not sure if this meant his rank was chief petty officer, senior chief petty officer or as we all know him master chief petty officer, also the time frame in which the online series is based in is 2526 so probably he gained it some time in between the book the fall of reach and forward unto dawn SPARTAN-225 03:27, 10 October 2012 (EDT)

Okay so he must of got the promotion to master chief in between the 27th of november 2525 and the mini series based in 2526, thats pretty fast for a promotion considering he was promoted to petty officer third class on september 12th 2525 before the assault on Eridanus Secundu SPARTAN-225 06:43, 27 October 2012 (EDT)

I'm fairly sure that John was still a Chief Petty Officer in 2535 (Jericho-VII event). He is repeatedly referred as "the Chief" in that chapter alone (except in one sentence) and the "Master Chief" in all other subsequent chapters. The only mention of the word "Master Chief" in that one sentence at the end of introductory chapter is most likely an error by the author (not sure if this has been changed in the definitive edition). — subtank   04:14, 28 October 2012 (EDT)

True true, during the prologue chapter he was referred to as "the chief" apart from once on page 9, you've got a point there. Grr 343 making this confusing, reminds me of bungie rewriting canon with the game halo reach SPARTAN-225 06:30, 28 October 2012 (EDT)


 * @Subtank - Contrary to what I said earlier, John is consistently addressed as "Chief" is the Definitive Edition during the Battle of Jericho VII, hence implying that he was a CPO. I imagine that the extended cut of Forward Unto Dawn will be geared more toward hardcore fans rather than newcomers. That being the case, hopefully "Call me Master Chief," will become "Call me Chief," or something of the like. For that matter, maybe "Chief out," will be redubbed as "John out." --Courage never dies. 09:47, 28 October 2012 (EDT)


 * Thanks for checking that bit. :) — subtank   10:18, 28 October 2012 (EDT)

New Screenshot and Headquote
Yes? No? I think its been getting kind of old, and is relatively out of place as opposed to the rest of the pages. I personally think the page needs a quote by the Master Chief himself. Discuss. --Kluutak 13:39, September 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * I think both the headquote and the infobox image (is this what you mean?) are the ideal ones for this article. --Odysseas-Spartan 53  13:47, September 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * No apparent reason to change either, actually. The Master Chief doesn't speak any quotes of significance anyway. - JEA13  [ iTalk  ] 13:55, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

Personality Changes from Game to Game
I think there needs to be some description of how his personality is by game, for example, in Halo: Combat Evolved he's kind of a joker, but still serious about getting the job done, in Halo 2, he is even more serious and has even less of a sense of humor, whereas in Halo 3 he is completely serious and somewhat distraught, has a very "we've got a job to do here, quit screwing around" non-nonsense kind of attitude, sort of like Carter only less talkative. --Kluutak 09:44, 19 November 2010 (EST)


 * It's the atmosphere of the games itself that makes him behave that way. Also, that's what you think of his personality and might not reflect what others think. Throughout the Trilogy, his personality has remained somewhat consistent, and changes based on the gravity of the situation.-  5 əb'7 aŋk (7alk ) 10:45, 19 November 2010 (EST)


 * Well realistically after all he's gone through surely he would've undergone some sort of psychological change after being separated from Cortana, watching his friends (family really) die before his own eyes, I'm sure he is somewhat damaged from it, I mean he doesn't show it but I'm sure the psychological damage is there. I'm not to sure he particularly likes his job either, or what he is. Not that I'd put this in the article or anything, but I'm just being realistic here --Kluutak 17:46, 20 November 2010 (EST)


 * Not really. He would be able to cope with the losses after 27 years of actively serving as a SPARTAN soldier. He seems to be able to easily suppress those sadness/anger whenever he gets up close and personal with the Covenant, and it doesn't seem that he has stopped joking around and making friendly remarks (i.e. after the massive loss of Reach, John can still joke around with Cortana on Alpha Halo about her driving). It's consistent behaviour that he is able to cope with the loss... he's cool. ;) -  5 əb'7 aŋk (<font color="#FF4F00">7alk ) 18:48, 20 November 2010 (EST)


 * Yeah I guess you're right, I guess thats why I like him so much, he's probably the friendliest character (to humans), I'd rather hang with him than a bunch of a**hole rowdy ODST that's for sure, lol. --Kluutak 09:08, 22 November 2010 (EST)


 * However I would like to note that in The Flood after he finds Captain Keyes he sorta enters an 'autopilot' state of mind, now do you think it would be worth putting in there somewhere, that he has been trained to cope with the death of a friend or close ally by 'shutting down' his emotional side? -- Kluutak

Birth date
Where did the July 7th date come from? To my knowledge, his date of birth has never been revealed anywhere. --<font color="MidnightBlue">Jugus (<font color="Gray">Talk  | <font color="Gray">Contribs ) 13:43, 22 November 2010 (EST)


 * That was my bad, there was some misinformation on b.net, somebody mistook bungie day as John's birthday, a friend of mine. Won't happen again. --Kluutak 15:14, 23 November 2010 (EST)

Transcript
Many levels in the Halo trilogy had John-117 named "Master Chief". Shouldn't we change it to John-117, as we didnt use "Chief Warrant Officer" with Jorge? — S331 Talk • Contributions 01:55, 14 April 2011 (EDT)
 * Go right ahead. --<font color="MidnightBlue">Jugus (<font color="Gray">Talk  | <font color="Gray">Contribs ) 06:46, 14 April 2011 (EDT)

Degree of humanity left...
What would you say the degree of humanity in his personality is? Would you say he has more of his humanity left than most of the other SPARTANS, or less...? Also, would you say the war might have changed him psychologically? It seems he is nearing the end of his sanity (just like Cortana) by the last two levels of Halo 3, but this is just a personal observation. --Kluutak 20:44, 11 May 2011 (EDT)
 * Personally i think hes become more war hardened and has lost his humanity --<font face="century gothic"><font color="Purple"><font color="#666666">Lol @<font color="#666666">Phailure  21:07, 11 May 2011 (EDT)


 * Trust me he hasn't lost any of his humanity Forgive My English TALK TO ME BABY 23:21, 11 May 2011 (EDT)

Read Halo Effect, and you'll see that he never had much humanity in him in the first place. Vegerot ( talk )  07:40, 12 May 2011 (EDT)!!


 * What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets!


 * What is human nature? Define it. Is it the ability to live a normal life? To live, and learn free of constraints? Most people don't have that luxury. Is it being purely, 100% biological Homo sapiens? Amputees would disagree. To me, humanity is a mental process and philosophy - our tenacity, our creativity, our urge to go out there and and do the impossible. Does this remind you of anyone?


 * Halsey could have ground out any sense of individuality, any sense of self, to produce unquestioning killing machines. But she didn't. Persuasion really is the most powerful weapon, and she wields it well. Train a child from the age of six, subject him to brutal combat against rebels and Covenant, let him see comrades and fellow Spartans die beside him. And yet he still chooses to fight on. Sanity can be lost. Humanity cannot. --  Specops306   Autocrat     Qur'a 'Morhek   01:29, 13 May 2011 (EDT)


 * Considering he felt something from the most vulnerable civilian to the simple soldier and Marine to his beloved SPARTAN comrades, John was a calm and consistent person throughout the war who didn't loose his cool or his humanity. High Command wouldn't allow a ruthless ass to operate as a senior non-commissioned officer.


 * There is a point made in Palace Hotel when John sees the photo of himself, that despite all his Spartan upbringing and loss of his childhood memories he still considers himself to be human. True, Palace Hotel gave him a different personality than usual, but it's still a perfectly valid point, since there's no reason to view himself as different, just stronger. Especially during the war, when pride of "being human" was one of the strongest ideals enforced, he'd be just as sure to consider himself one of them so that he'd be right about defending them. Tuckerscreator (<font color="#008000">stalk ) 09:45, 13 May 2011 (EDT)

Page Picture
The Picture for the page should be changed to his new appearance in Halo 4.

Has his new appearance in Halo 4 even been released yet?? J1MMYP4Z 07 04:00, 7 June 2011 (EDT)

We do have an appearance of him in Halo 4, but to me it seems there isn't a good frame in the trailer we can use as an article image. So, I think, not yet. — S331  (Talk • Contributions) 07:43, 7 June 2011 (EDT)


 * Indeed. Not to mention that the "Halo 4 appearance" we've seen so far is only based on a pre-rendered trailer. It shouldn't be changed until we get a proper picture of his final look. --<font color="MidnightBlue">Jugus (<font color="Gray">Talk  | <font color="Gray">Contribs ) 07:42, 7 June 2011 (EDT)

And even then, good ol' John looks pretty bad-ass in his current picture. Vegerot ( talk )  14:34, 7 June 2011 (EDT)!


 * I agree with Jugus. The appearance of the Mark IV was completely changed between the Halo Wars announcement trailer and the final game. The same might happen with John's armor, which, ironically, looks rather similar to the Halo Wars announcement trailer armor. Anyway, the game is a year and a half from release. It will be a while before we have a definitive image of John's new look. --Courage never dies. 14:54, 7 June 2011 (EDT)

We actually have a highres render of him, if we get a new picture of him later with an updated look we can just change it again.

Yea, sorry, im a little behind on halo news these days. J1MMYP4Z 07 00:03, 10 June 2011 (EDT)

I think we should change the image to one from Halo 3 instead of a trailer. The coloring in the image does not match the final game.--Soul reaper 07:51, 6 September 2011 (EDT)


 * John117MC.png I would like to nominate this image for the main image--Soul reaper 12:02, 6 September 2011 (EDT)


 * I don't see why not. The model from the E3 trailer, while more high-detail, doesn't properly reflect his appearance in the final game. --<font color="MidnightBlue">Jugus (<font color="Gray">Talk  | <font color="Gray">Contribs ) 12:32, 6 September 2011 (EDT)


 * My point exactly. Shall I make the change or is there a more appropriate image?--Soul reaper 12:34, 6 September 2011 (EDT)

Weight
There is an obvious error with the Chief's weight.The first instance states that he is 130 kilograms (286 lbs) in the novel, which is simply too light.

Allow me to explain, as this error is directed at not just spartan II's but III's as well. I am 6'1'', slightly muscled with little fat; i do push ups and sit ups but not excessively, and yet i weigh 237 lbs. Which is more than emile - whom without his armor is approx 6'7-6'8 tall (as mjolnir armor gives around a 2-3 inch boost in height). Emile has dense muscles(muscle weighs much more than fat) and has extremely dense bones with the extra ceramic coating on top and yet he only weighs 235 lbs?! Given height also plays a huge role in weight, in fact for every inch gained in height, a male can expect to gain anywhere from 7-12 lbs of weight because of the increase in muscle size and bone size. Given these parameters, I estimated emile and other Spartan III weights at well over 330 lbs.

This brings me over to Master chief, he stands approximately 6'11'' inches in height, given that a skinny NBA center standing at the same height weighs on average around 260 lbs. And that Master chief has super dense muscle fibers, from the pictures given in Halsey's journal. The total amount of weight from his mega-muscles alone should add on anywhere from 50-65 lbs of weight onto that, as my own light muscles add on about 30 lbs of weight onto my frame. In addition, the ceramic carbide coating on his bones is a very dense and heavy compound, just a thin coating on his leg bones and arm bones would have a profound impact on his overall weight. My generous estimate is at least another 80 lbs of weight. This puts his total weight around 390-430 lbs according to my estimates. which believe me, if you know a little about human anatomy and physiology, and you happen to have quite a few friends that work out and are all a little shorter than you yet weigh more; this will not seem so crazy.

It seems that Eric Nylund, author of fall of reach, grossly underestimated the chief's weight, as well as bungie themselves with the spartan III's on noble team and Jorge's (320 lbs). After snooping around I found later on the beastarium on halo.waypoint ( http://halo.xbox.com/en-us/intel/related/text/uncategorized/cb76d627-7a97-45c0-afd5-612e0d9d6302 ) that master chief, and perhaps the entire spartan II race ( as they are classified as a different form of homo sapiens by guilty spark) weigh on average 179 KG. That is 393 Lbs!, barely within my estimates. In addition, under the spartan II augmentation page on this site, CPO mendez states that the average spartan can lift 600 KG withoug their armor, which is approx 3 times their own body weight. This means that they weigh 200 KG, or 440 lbs!!

These last 2 instances both seem much more likely, i honestly can't decide which sounds more reasonable, 393, or 440 lbs. But MC sure as hell weighs much more than 286 lbs. Permission to change the weight?

Aidep 13:32, 29 June 2011 (EDT)Aidep


 * John's mass (not weight, we can't do weight when we're talking about a series with multiple planets of varying gravities) has changed on the article many times- we may need page numbers for a confirmation. From what we know of John, he is a very skinny, pale-slimed man. The augments may cause disproportionate readings (eg. An ability to survive on even less body fat), though certainly not into rediculous proportions.--  Fore  run  ner '' 14:32, 29 June 2011 (EDT)


 * I'm with Forerunner on this, from pictures in Bootcamp we can tell he was skinny, and the excuse that 'oh well he is fourteen' doesn't work because in the book Halsey states that they had the physical and mental maturity levels of an eighteen year old adult human. And isn't it stated that between him and Fred, John was of a taller and slighter build while Fred was of a shorter, stockier, more compact build? I personally think 286 is a good weight, when including his augmentations - although his biological weight, if his bones were of normal composition and not alloy, would probably be closer to 230-240 pounds, I think the weights of Noble Team given are excluding these proportions as well. When including the ceramic ossification procedures I am sure Carter would probably weigh close to Chief's weight of 280 pounds if we were including the ceramic augmentations. The data I got this number from is Fall of Reach, it is stated the carbide-ceramic ossification procedure is not to exceed 3% of total bone mass. The skeleton weighs roughly 40% of your total body weight, seeing as John-117 is 286 pounds, his skeletal weight would be 114.4 pounds. 286 x .40 x .03 you get 3.43 pounds. There are 206 bones in the adult human body so 3.43 x 206 = 706.99. The procedure is not to exceed 3 percent of the total final skeletal mass so 706.99 x .03 = 21.21. Subtract that from 286 to get 265 pounds, his biological weight, which is what I assume has been brought forth for Noble Team, their biological weight, Jorge's being 320, fully augmented his weight is probably closer to 350. In short, I agree with Forerunner on this, 286 is a good weight with what's been brought forth in the canon pool. --Kluutak 02:55, 28 January 2012 (EST)


 * I know that he is vary pale, but i don't remember anywhere it being stated that he was skinny, the quote above from fall of reach states anything but. But anyways, the planets that the UNSC colonized will most likely vary in gravity, but not by a large margin. I myself always assume that they range anywhere from .95 G to 1.05 G, anymore or less will mean catastrophic results for human society. I'm not taking about Spartans, but regular civilians, elderly civilians to be exact. Think about it, a really old dude lets say. . . 105 years old, who can barely stand and move around will probably be completely immobilized by the extra weight of his from the additional gravity and will probably die very soon (sooner than can be expected :]). There is no way that the UNSC would go through the trouble of colonizing a world with drastically different gravity, it would be too much for average joe's like you and me. 5% gravity change is probably the limit for humans, this would mean about a 5% change in weight. However, 286 lbs to 393 lbs, to 440 lbs is way too much of a difference to be attributed to gravity, i think it's fair to assume that the authors of the novels, and those who keep track of these facts at bungie (or should i day 343i) have all just made glaring errors and have not established MC's true weight. I'm also sure that when given the weight of any species in the halo universe, we have to assume that we are given their weight at 1 G, the Earth standard, to make it easy for us Halo fans to comprehend the size of, say a brute or a hunter if they came to earth. It would be a constant pain to have to convert a brute's 1100 lbs mass on their planet Doisac to what they would weigh here on earth.


 * By the way, gravity on a planet will also affect height, as the downward pressure on human vertebrae from gravity squeezes on the soft water-filled discs and compresses them; this is why we are taller in space and when we first get up out of bed in the morning. With this, it would be also be a pain to have to refer to John's height with gravity in mind, him being 6'11 on earth, yet 6'10.5 on another planet, or 7'0'' on another. We should assume that all physical data given from a species is rated at 1 G.

Aidep 21:46, 30 June 2011 (EDT)Aidep

Anyone notice John looks fatter in Halo 1?--Marine 777 16:15, 23 August 2011 (EDT)


 * That's because the Mark V is bulkier than the Mark VI. --Courage never dies. 23:09, 23 August 2011 (EDT)

Relationship with Cortana
Has anyone noticed that Chief and Cortana may be more than friends? And what about the AR Machine incident...--Ched2 15:30, 13 September 2011 (EDT)
 * This just became really dumb. Bush Wookie Camper 16:42, 13 September 2011 (EDT)

Top image
Shouldn't we change his (and Johnson's) top image to CEA. It's the most recent appearance. Same would go for cortana, 343, keyes and all that when the game comes out.--Shadow Sword 02:26, 18 October 2011 (EDT)


 * Canonically, it's not his most recent image. The timeline has gives him a newer look (Mark VI), and we assume the furthest canon here to be the present day when writing from an in-universe viewpoint. Tuckerscreator (<font color="#008000">stalk ) 02:31, 18 October 2011 (EDT)

Derp-to all the Halo: Reach articles. :/ Vegerot goes RAWR! Vegerot ( talk )  19:31, 18 October 2011 (EDT)


 * I've argued for this in the Reach pictures, that they should be the Halo 3 ones as per above. However, the policy can't seem to make up its mind about this and switches between the two quite often. Tuckerscreator (<font color="#008000">stalk ) 19:55, 18 October 2011 (EDT)

Wouldn't that make the most recent picture from the Halo 4 Trailer? Bush Wookie Camper 19:49, 18 October 2011 (EDT)


 * Yes, but the Halo 4 look is not set yet and keeps changing. Once 4 is released, it will be changed to that. Tuckerscreator (<font color="#008000">stalk ) 19:55, 18 October 2011 (EDT)

I think the best option for all articles is to make the BEST image the picture. So whichever one is the best and has the better graphics would make it the profile picture. So is it just me, or does Halo 3's graphics and Halo: Combat Evolved Anniversary look pretty close? When we get the game we can see more closely which has better graphics. But don't forget that we won't have theater to help get a good quality image, so yeah... Vegerot goes RAWR! Vegerot ( talk )  00:05, 19 October 2011 (EDT)!!!
 * As per Tuckerscreator, the policy is to follow canon, that is which one would be the most recent depiction within the Halo universe. Of course, if they all look similar, then we should pick the prettiest.— subtank  10:24, 19 October 2011 (EDT)

I thought cea didn't have theatre--Raiden&#39;s stylist 10:28, 19 October 2011 (EDT)


 * CEA doesn't have theater. Gonna quote Luke Timmins here:


 * These "lies" in H:CE includes:


 * Headless Master Chief
 * Floating assault rifles
 * Unarmed Marines
 * So yeah. By the way, I agree on keeping the canon picture, and not just changing article main images because they look prettier or in HD whatsoever. Let's do that for all character pages. <:)— S331 Bubbleshieldhud.svg(Tank beats Everything!) 10:48, 19 October 2011 (EDT)

Halo 3 images for characters, Reach images for random AI such as the Covies. user:ArchedThunder
 * Check your talk page.— subtank  19:58, 22 October 2011 (EDT)

Including a Reception section
I believe we should include a Reception section to this article. My reasoning behind this is based off of the fact that John-117 is a highly notable character within the gaming industry. If Thel 'Vadam can warrant one, I don't see why John-117 cannot. Of course, we would include both praise and criticism of his character. I just wanted to hear you're views on the matter.-- Brute Honour Guard  ( "Talk" ) 14:36, 3 November 2011 (EDT)


 * It isn't necessary, as we try to avoid breaking the fourth wall as much as possible. The Thel 'Vadam article really shouldn't have a "Reception" section either, but that entire article is in need of an overhaul; I intend to rewrite it soon, work schedule permitting. --Courage never dies. 15:04, 3 November 2011 (EDT)
 * Is it okay if I remove the reception section from the Thel 'Vadam article then?-- Lt. Commander  光环的家伙1234   Talk  ( Contribs ) ( Edits ) 21:21, 3 November 2011 (EDT)

Not quite yet, let him take some of the stuff from that section and incorporate it into the other sections during the rewrite. Vegerot goes RAWR! Vegerot ( talk )  23:43, 3 November 2011 (EDT)

Decorations
Shouldn't it be "has earned every known medal the UNSC Navy bestows except for the Prisoner of War Medallion." instead of "has earned every known medal the UNSC bestows except for the Prisoner of War Medallion." because I am sure, like the US Military, there are certain decorations reserved for personnel within a certain branch of the military? I mean, realistically and logically speaking here, he wouldn't be able to earn, say, the Distinguished Service Cross, which is only awarded to the Army branch, he would instead be awarded the Navy Cross in its place. To avoid confusion, as the average person would most likely come here assuming he has won every decoration in the entire UNSC, which is impossible, I suggest it be changed. --Kluutak 02:28, 28 January 2012 (EST)
 * Wow, nobody has even taken this error into account. I am astounded by the abundance of misinformation on this wiki, it is truly appalling and disgusting. Someone should really look into this. --Kluutak 21:28, 12 February 2012 (EST)
 * See this page Mr. Kluutak.--
 * Yes, but you see there is one major flaw in your argument. The medals within branches 'fact' not only applies to the US Military, but every military on the face of the planet. Give me one example of a military force that allows its employees to accumulate every single medal, and an example of someone who has. When you do, I will abandon my campaign without question. --Kluutak 22:07, 12 February 2012 (EST)
 * Sigh. If you've ever had a history class you would understand how little sense that makes.  The U.S Military Decorations were made over SIX-HUNDRED years beforehand.  Now, think about the state of the world six-hundred years ago.  So saying that no military forces allow someone to accumulate all the medals doesn't make much sense.  Think about the ways military was organized and made six-hundred years ago.  So much has changed since then you cannot base anything off of now to the future.  So, to answer your question: The UNSC is a military force that allows its employees to accumulate every single medal, like John-117.  Okay, see you later!  (or so it says in the sacred caves) Vegerot!'' 15:40, 13 February 2012 (EST)!
 * The original source for that information says the UNSC, not UNSC Navy.--
 * By the way, this article proves the UNSC medallion system is based off of that of the US Military. And this one. As well as this one. I am sure there are others as well. By the way the first article I linked to has some issues with it as I have addressed in the talk page. --Kluutak 22:23, 12 February 2012 (EST)
 * Three medals that are used by the Navy does not prove anything. How do you know that another branch doesn't use these medals either? By the way you removed the info about the Navy from the first article linked, even though you were using it as proof. Finally I will leave you with this:

"What if, the UNSC didn't based all of their decorations off the US Military?, Kluutak, you are automatically assuming that the UNSC is using all of the decorations from the US military. Just because a few of them are the same, doesn't mean all of them are the same. It's like thinking that 343i will remake every Halo: CE multiplayer map just because they remade Hang 'Em High, Damnation, and Prisoner. Unless you have an official source saying that all UNSC decorations are from the current US military, keep the page as it is."

- Spartan331


 * Stop edit warring without a source.--
 * It's funny because that page is all conjecture and has no citations at all whatsoever. (or so it says in the sacred caves) Vegerot!'' 15:44, 13 February 2012 (EST)


 * Then where is the source that he has attained every medal in the UNSC coming from then? Surely you're not going to expect me to comply to that when you're doing the same thing. Unless you provide a source I am going to have to revert it for the sheer weight of its ridiculousness. --Kluutak 22:27, 12 February 2012 (EST)
 * Halo: The Fall of Reach. It says that he's earned every single UNSC decoration.  (or so it says in the sacred caves) Vegerot!'' 15:44, 13 February 2012 (EST)!
 * There, I left that little tidbit in with the tag, ya happy? --Kluutak 22:30, 12 February 2012 (EST)
 * Yeah that's much better. Why didn't you do that in the first place instead of getting into a ridiculous edit war?--


 * Spartans are exceptions to a huge number of traditional conventions. Can you tell me that ONI wouldn't stage as many medal ceremonies as possible, awarding every complimentary medal in the UNSC Army, Navy and Air Force to John purely for propaganda purposes? Halsey has collected a lot of newspaper clippings, and the existence of the SPARTAN-II Program was top secret until 2549, and while their existence was revealed their actual missions would have stayed classified. Obviously newspapers would have had to be writing about something, and eventually the Navy would have run out. And who's to say the other branches didn't agree, to cash in on the Spartans' popularity? When seen from a propaganda morale boost, the "discrepancy" makes complete sense. --  Specops306   Autocrat     Qur'a 'Morhek   05:17, 13 February 2012 (EST)
 * I agree, I smell a lot of bullsh*t behind the proclamation he'd earned every single medal. That's like 300 decorations. Considering the fact he's been fighting for about 27 years he would have to earn 11 medals a year. Which is a medal every month damn near. And the description of how John "earned" the Legion of Honor, diving into a bunker full of Covenant soldiers, single-handedly defeating them, and ultimately saving a platoon of Marines from a Shade, reeks of "Official story" syndrome. Spartans were pretty amazing and all but they weren't invincible. That would've probably been suicide, realistically. If its true than they were probably an assortment of Grunts and Jackal. Highly unlikely it was a room full of Elites or Brutes, otherwise he would've been torn limb from limb. --Kluutak 12:12, 15 February 2012 (EST)


 * We do that in the games all the time. John's fought in over 207 public ground engagements, and perhaps dozens more off the record ones. He's also JOHN-117. He could earn those. Tuckerscreator (<font color="#008000">stalk ) 13:51, 15 February 2012 (EST)

Yeah, I agree with what Tucker said. And we, the players, don't have off-the-chart reflexes, can't sprint at 70 miles an hour, and can't do all the fancy hand-to-hand combat things that he does.  (or so it says in the sacred caves) Vegerot!'' 14:39, 15 February 2012 (EST)
 * You make him out to be this end-all be-all superhero, which he wasn't. I think you're also underestimating the close combat abilities of Brutes and Elites, both of which have vast advantages over him in not only brute strength, but sheer body mass as well. In the games, John-117 can barely hold his own against a Brute in close combat, let alone in a cramped, confined space such as a bunker. Not only that, but since when is gameplay canon? Spartans can't flip Scorpion tanks with one arm in the books as I recall, 60 tons... thats like lifting 40 Hunters at a time. Which is nuts. I don't think your credibility is lacking, and I don't think you're a naive or unintelligent individual, I just think you're looking at the wrong areas. John-117 wasn't immortal, he wasn't even that great compared to the other SPARTANS. (Take Frederic-104 for example, who placed second in almost every contest.) He just had a bit of luck helping him out, and in all actuality that luck was in fact Cortana, if you listen to the way she says, "Was I wrong?", it is clear here that she was referring to herself, something no other SPARTAN, other than Noble Six - briefly, had the advantage of. And this is getting a bit more into speculation but I believe Cortana has a sort of 'luck' about her, giving her courier a unique 'gift', that is being able to survive in the most unlikely and miraculous situations. Look at the way Noble Six successfully evaded an entire Covenant armada bearing down on him, and destroying a firing-ready battle-cruiser. Of course, once they parted ways, his luck ran out pretty quickly. I think it was Bungie's way of telling us, we (being you, as Noble Six) are just as good as the good 'ol Chief, and that without her, being quite possibly the single greatest technological achievement of mankind, neither of us is really that great, just soldiers with enhanced technology and performance-accelerating drugs and implants, that enable us to fight the battles regular soldiers cannot, but we're not invincible. --Kluutak 03:03, 16 February 2012 (EST)


 * I can agree with the ONI Propaganda thing. Though this edit war needs to stop now. In fact, I request that this page be protected, as is cutomary with an edit war.--


 * For the record, I'm not saying the Chief hasn't earned his medals, just that ONI would ignore the normal barriers (eg; not actually being in the Army) for morale reasons. He's still an advanced supersoldier with decades of experience, who has personally bested the strongest soldiers of the Covenant, Elites and Brutes, in hand-to-hand combat, and whose actions have probably directly saved hundreds of thousands and indirectly saved billions. Also (not being a military man, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) a soldier can earn multiple medals from an engagement, depending on their actions. It's not just limited to one per battle.
 * I also have to disagree with Bungie's intentions with Reach. The Spartans have thoroughly earned their reputation. Reach is supposed to be the conflict that even they could not ever win. The accomplishments of Noble team rival those of the Chief, made all the more impressive by the fact that most of them aren't even SPARTAN-IIs. If anything, it enhances the myth of the Spartan - that it took nearly thirty years for this massive alien war machine to finally take down the best soldiers humanity has ever fielded.
 * As far as I'm concerned, and as far as past games have portrayed him, the Chief is an end-all be-all superhero. Halo 1, 2 and 3 were space opera, which by definition makes the protagonist a "hero". He has the attitude, he has the skill, and he has the powers - and, unlike Superman who gets it from sunlight, he earned his powers through hard work and suffering. That fact alone gives him more character than just the bland player avatar he was designed as. And that's why the fans have demanded his return since 2007. --  Specops306   Autocrat     Qur'a 'Morhek   03:51, 16 February 2012 (EST)

Kind of, er, back on topic, Halo: First Strike, pg. 104 of my 2005 Orbit publication has, in these exact words, ""Those 'freaks'", Hood said over his protests, "have more confirmed kills than any three divisions of ODSTs and have garnered every major citation the UNSC awards."" Perhaps The Fall of Reach clarifies, but the sentence is talking about all the Spartans, not just the Chief, and admittedly it does say the "major" citations. Nevertheless, it emphasises UNSC over any one branch. --  Specops306   Autocrat     Qur'a 'Morhek   04:10, 16 February 2012 (EST)


 * Well disagree or not, and I for one agree, it is established with Reach that the Spartans, underneath that armor, are just human. And with the way Cortana called Chief by his name I think he's going to be a lot more human in the next Halo games, which seem to revolve more around exploration and mystery, than open outright war. --Kluutak 04:18, 16 February 2012 (EST)
 * PS-I still think most of his accomplishments are ONI propaganda. =P Noble Team's as well. Most of the SPARTANS really. --Kluutak 04:20, 16 February 2012 (EST)
 * You can't argue with what official sources say. If they say John earned all those medals, then he earned all those medals, even through ONI Propaganda. Regardless, John-117 is still a hero. He saved humanity from many threats. Oh and by the way this is for everyone reading this, please post after each comment, not in-between them, it's less confusing.--
 * Okay, guys, let's look at the text of The Fall of Reach: It says "every major service decoration", which implies he didn't get all of them (he's unlikely to take time out for a competition in the hopes of getting the Navy marksmanship medal for example). Also, it's Cortana who makes that statement. If there had been any foul play involved in awarding those medals, she'd have either brought it up in her conversation with Halsey or would have considered it in her POV chapter we get a bit later. Next, it says "service decoration", which I believe refers to a decoration given by one of the Armed Services, in John's case the Navy and Marine Corps, and not the entire UNSC Defense Force.--The All-knowing Sith&#39;ari 17:51, 16 February 2012 (EST)
 * This is what I've been saying. After reading Fall of Reach I made this section, because I honestly can't find anywhere. TAKS has it right, thats what it says. But the current edit seems fine... if not necessarily crystal clear. --Kluutak 14:22, 27 February 2012 (EST)
 * So remind me again why we had a pointless debate here when you could have simply referred to canon?--

Aeneas
Should this comparison be brought up in John-117's trivia section?
 * Roger Travis, editor of The Escapist, draws similarities between the character of Master Chief and Aeneas, and the story of the main Halo trilogy being similar to the Roman Poet Virgil's epic poem the Aeneid, with the Flood and Covenant taking on the role performed by the Carthaginians.

I found it on the Wikipedia page for John-117, and I just thought it was strange this wasn't mentioned here. --Kluutak 15:07, 27 February 2012 (EST)


 * Since someone already removed it, then no. Also don't make multiple edits.--

About the main image


In the past we have always gone for images that used neutral lighting, rather than ones where the colour was altered due to the lighting. The current main image is influenced by lighting. I understand that at the time the only in-game images of the Chief were influenced by lighting but now we not only have more footage/images but also renders, such as the one located in the gallery. These would be more appropriate in my opinion.--Soul reaper 08:11, 7 June 2012 (EDT)

Might I suggest this one?--Soul reaper 00:50, 8 June 2012 (EDT)


 * I agree. The current one is too bright. I like the one you suggested. — S331 Bubbleshieldhud.svg(COM • Mission Log • Profile) 01:02, 8 June 2012 (EDT)

Agreed. I prefer this suggested one. Tuckerscreator (<font color="#008000">stalk ) 09:09, 8 June 2012 (EDT)


 * I changed it since there's no opposition to this proposal. :) — subtank   10:20, 8 June 2012 (EDT)

Height?
So the official halo 4 character page lists John's unarmored height as 7'2". Should we change it here in the wiki?
 * He's already listed as 7'2" on the page. Also, please sign your comments with four tildes ( ~ ) and post new discussion at the bottom of the page.-- Spartacus  ('''<font color="Grey">Talk 19:18, 26 July 2012 (EDT)

But the wiki page lists his armored height as 7'2", not his actual height. 79.120.177.35 03:47, 29 July 2012 (EDT)subjani


 * That info on the official character page would be (and should be) considered as an error. It has been repeatedly shown by various mediums (EVG, Data Drop Five) that the figure (7'2") is his armored height.— subtank   09:30, 29 July 2012 (EDT)

I think its a retcon, considering 343 is now changing everything to make Halo theirs. I dont think they would make a mistake on the official page and leave it there.79.120.177.35 14:31, 31 July 2012 (EDT)subjani
 * It is unlikely, considering that the two mediums I linked above are recent documents of canon. — subtank   14:33, 31 July 2012 (EDT)

k, but I will ask someone from 343 to be sure.79.120.177.35 02:50, 1 August 2012 (EDT)subjani

Braille
There appears to be the braille for 117 or 711 on John's right breast plate, it is opposite the 117 on his left breast plate. Also on his waist armour there is either a 71 or a 17. Anyone wanna look this over and put it in the trivia with the comment about the left breast plate having 117 in braille also. http://www.halopedia.org/File:H4_John-117_cover_cropped.jpg I have alot of trouble linking so there is the image I am referencing. TLLorax 05:12, 5 September 2012 (EDT)
 * They actually confirmed that the braille reads 117. It was in the new BTS video.--210.56.86.172 05:49, 5 September 2012 (EDT)

Yea I saw the video, the mentioned the left plate but noone seems to have mentioned anything about the right or what might be on the waist. Trying to see if anyone else can validate it. TLLorax 05:59, 5 September 2012 (EDT)