Talk:AIE-486H machine gun

Untitled
Why was the main image cut down to only show the turret and not the entire Spartan? The Missile Pod article shows the whole character, this one does not. Vethryn 05:46, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

E3 1999
Anyone else think this might be the reincarnation of the WPAS Minigun from the E3 1999 Halo build? (See lower half of this.) Andrew Nagy 04:13, 22 May 2007 (UTC) File:HalfJaw03.jpg|30px]] Kora ‘Morhekee The Battle-Net My Conquests. 04:09, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Definitely. Bungie have been itching to put it in a game, and thank god they did! I have got killing sprees with this thing, and i'm not that good aplayer, but it feels like so much fun shredding enemies! Cheers Bungie! I salute you!

I had to remove the bit in the article about the AIE-486H replacing the Warthog's LAAG. Despite the similarity of both weapons, Frankie's article on the Warthog states that it still uses the M41 LAAG. Rtas VadumeeFile:UNSCoH_Dingo_without_letters.PNG|30px]] TALK/CONTRIBS 07:44, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

can this or the plasma cannon bring down a phantom?

Ya man the turrets can take down a phantom, every weapons can the only thing that you need is ammo and time. Clavix2 File:Halo2emblemClavix.jpg|30px]] I WILL PAY FOR  ALL MY SINS 01:11, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Believability as a Squad Automatic Weapon
While watching Shootout! on the History Channel this morning, during an Iwo Jima special, I saw a modified Browning M1919 machine gun - used as a tailgun on American divebombers - modified into a squad automatic weapon (SAW). Called the "Stinger", it featured the trigger system from an M1 Garand and the bipod of a Browning Automatic Rifle. It could be lugged around and fired from the hip with a rate of fire of ~1,300 rounds per minute! One Marine killed around twenty Japanese soldiers with the weapon (unaided) in one day. Of course, Iwo Jima was also the most notable WWII battle in which flamethrowers were used in combat (take that Hellbringer detractors!) --Braidenvl 17:44, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

SAW's are light weapons that can project tremendous amounts of accurate suppressing fire, not a weapon that requires a team of two men to succesfully operate and must be 'deployed' before operation. Thats a Heavy Machine Gun. HMG does not equal SAW. At all. Ajax 013 12:11, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

I see your point, but I was referring to the way some tough guys can rip the weapon off its hinges and lug it around for fairly accurate suppressing fire, often for a whole squad of marines. To them, it could be considered a somewhat light (in terms of weight, not caliber) weapon. Thus, I meant one may informally treat an unhinged AIE-486 as an SAW in a Spartan's hands. But, this is fairly pointless - I've made my case. --Braidenvl 13:11, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Actualy the "Heavy" bit is inacurrate. it uses 7.62x51mm NATO rounds which would actualy be a medium machine gun (like the old GPMG from Halo 2) though it could refering to its wieght. Is it man portable? as in, can a lone amarine carry it?(carry and deploy not carry and fire) if so then it is definitly a medium.(a point i added to the artice but seams to have been removed)

9.5
When was it decided that this thing uses the 9.5mm ammo of the BR? The container in game meant for storing the weapon even says 7.62mm on it. If someone has a good reason please tell me, as I am going to remove this for now. Diaboy 00:47, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

The container in the game also labels the weapon as an M247 machine gun and gives it a packing weight of 983 pounds, which is heavier than a 20mm Vulcan cannon.

Redirect
"Chaingun" redirects to this page. this just encourages the misconception that chingun=gatling gun. they are two compleately different guns! Gunnery sergeant Maiar 04:07, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

The reason that it redirects here is because there is no Chaingun in Halo, so people searching for that are more then likely looking for this. DarkbelowHGR  CommbandD  04:56, May 17, 2010 (UTC)

Conflicting Info
This article states that the AIE-486H machine gun is more powerful than the M247 GP machine gun, which is found in Halo 2. However, the M247 GP article says, under the Trivia section, that the M247 GP is more powerful than the AIE-486H.

I vote that the two statements are removed.Guardians-117 15:46, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Strange advantage
--1st lieutenant Geeslin 23:24, 5 August 2009 (UTC)Okay, you're trying to fend of the Phantoms from breaching the Crow's Nest (Base), while mounted, you have a limitless supply of ammunition. HOWEVER, when you detatch it to take down some camping jackals, you only get 200 rounds. Does this make any sense to anyone?!? The same thing with the plasma turret. If you guys think this was pointless posting this, let me know and I'll delete it, but in the mean time, gimme some feedback.
 * With the machine gun, the ammo feed is severed so it is limited in what it can fire. For the plasma turret I presume it is similar (but you disconnect its main battery or something)OMEGATRON 17:02, June 18, 2010 (UTC)

ODST
In the pictures section, it shows an ODST using one like you can in halo 3, but should that even be possible? Detaching one and walking around with it slows a spartan down considerably, so could an ODST even detach one, let alone use it like that?Papayaking 23:12, 6 August 2009 (UTC)


 * That pic is from Firefight.It is possible that Bungie modeled Firefight after Halo 3 multiplayer.SPARTAN-177 01:21, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * OkPapayaking 01:42, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

There has been multiple footages showing ODSTs wielding the turret in the campaign. This ofcourse is conflicting stuff as ODSTs are not as strong as Spartans. Beats me why Bungie decided to ignore such a part of the Halo Universe canon.


 * Who says the ODSTs ripped the turrets off? Carrying a turret may require less strength than violently and rapidly tearing it off of its base. Furthermore, the ODSTs are in a city that was blown apart by a massive shock wave during a big Covie-Human battle, so I'm willing to bet that a few turrets got ripped off the base by the shock wave. The ODSTs could also use explosives or something to break the turrets -- works in Halo 3. File:DavidJCobb_Emblem.svg|16px]] DavidJCobb  04:08, September 12, 2009 (UTC)

Huh, Didn't think of that.Papayaking 17:36, September 12, 2009 (UTC)

ODSTs DO rip off the turret, and they can move faster carrying it than Spartans and Elites.

Ok, I don't have ODST yet so I can't say for sure, but this seems like one of those unsigned posts that dosen't do anything but point out they DO rip them off (which we know by now), but faster? I doubt it.Papayaking 21:51, October 11, 2009 (UTC)

They look like they run faster, but it might just be the animation, since it looks like they have a harder time carrying a turret.112 22:39, October 11, 2009 (UTC)

Reach?
Could someone please give me a reference to where this shows up in Reach? There's only one ref tag on the entire page (for the H3 guide), and all our information on the page talks about the H3 and ODST weapon, a gatling-style machine gun with three barrels. The Reach weapon is not that gun. It is not a Gatling-style machine gun and does not have three barrels. In fact, it literally shares nothing in common with the turret from H3.

If the only source is the beta post-carnage report (which I hope, like with the MA37/MA5C conflict, is not), I say we hold off on the merge until post-beta. I mean, I can't say I'm surprised that Bungie would do something like this, but I can still be disappointed... --Nerfherder1428 01:16, May 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * I assume everyone who played Generator Defense had access to the Machine Gun. So, check your aggregates in Bungie.net and place your mouse cursor over the Machine Gun. If not, click here and place the mouse over the Machine Gun.- Sketch ist 01:21, May 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * Nerfherder: Looks like I didn't read the second paragraph. >.> Sorry.
 * Anyway, looks like Bungie is retconning the physical appearance of the AIE-486H. And the link in the article doesn't exist anymore (Microsoft pulled the plug)... so, this article is really source-less.- Sketch ist 02:15, May 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * The MG in Reach is totally different from the AIE-486H, both visually and structurally. I think the stats page may be a case of some content from Halo 3 being carried over to Reach; I find it hard to believe they'd change the appearance that much when they could simply give it a different designation. Plus, I think the people who work on the game stats content aren't the same people who manage canon; errors like this can happen, especially considering how this is still the beta and not everything is polished. We'll just have to wait and see how it is in the final game. --Jugus (Talk  | Contribs ) 05:49, May 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * Or simply showing what the earlier model looks like. Also, have we noted that this is the same weapon Jorge uses, just without the front armor plate? Spartan 501 05:05, May 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * Agreed Jugus. It's interesting to note that almost every weapon (even the returning ones from H3) has a new description from H3 except for the nades, the AR, and the HMG. And you already have people over at the MA37 talk page trying to merge it with MA5C solely because of a similar descrepancy. Honestly, an extremely likely explanation is that a couple of tags in the template weren't changed. I'm not saying that Bungie wouldn't redo an entire weapon. It's disappointing but no surprise. I'm just saying that it is extremely important that those borrowed H3 info tags in the beta carnage reports be regarded with skepticism.--Nerfherder1428 03:03, May 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * Considering the amount of updates and fixes Bungie added throughout the Beta phase, one could question why they didn't bother changing the so-called typos we see in the game or in the post-carnage reports. This is true to previous Halo titles where Bungie could easily corrected the so-called typos in the weapon through title-updates but chose not to do so. Perhaps Bungie intended to name them the way they want it to be? Bungie is always known for concealing information and confusing its fans.- Sketch ist 04:33, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

Anyone with half a brain can tell that the turret in Reach is not an AIE-486H. They are two completely different weapons. They are structurally different, and the AIE is a rotary-barreled machine gun, I only see 1 barrel on this thing.--FluffyEmoPenguin 23:16, May 20, 2010 (UTC)

SLAP?
Where does it say, anywhere, in the canon that the HMG fires SLAP rounds? Was this just made up by someone then established as 'fact'? I have never seen any sourcing from it and have removed it in the past but it keeps coming back. Any pointers would be great. Diaboy 14:46, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * At first glance, I thought it was vandalism... but looks like it's a real round. :P
 * Why not just slap in the Template:Fact template in? -  5 əb'7 aŋk (7alk ) 14:52, June 9, 2010 (UTC)

Separate page proposal
The turret in Halo: Reach is obviously not an AIE-486H or even a variant of it. We can all tell. The only thing the two turrets share in common is their in-game functions. Aside from that, the Reach turret looks completely different, it is a completely different type of machine gun (a single-barreled instead of a triple rotary-barreled), and the ammunition box on the side says "12mm HVE" which is a completely different round. The only info to confirm its designation as an AIE-486H is the Bungie.net carnage reports. The description is the exact same as the turret in Halo 3, leading me to believe it was just copied and pasted or a section that was untouched when they used the Halo 3 template. So, I propose that we give this new turret a separate page titled "Unidentified UNSC Heavy Machine Gun" or something of the sort.--FluffyEmoPenguin 15:40, June 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * Bungie says otherwise. If the final game proves that the turret is in fact a different weapon, we will then make the appropriate changes. As of now, it stays.-  5 əb'7 aŋk (7alk ) 15:45, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure if we should take the carnage report as official info. At this stage in development, only a statement by Bungie or a trusted game article should be taken as official info. Another thing, this section from the carnage report on the turret "...and slow to spin up to full firing rate." proves the description was a mistake because the Reach turret reaches full firing rate instantly whereas the Halo 3 turret does not.--FluffyEmoPenguin 15:52, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Like I said in the M6G talk page, either ask a Bungie employee to confirm or wait for the released game. If not, it stays using the available evidence. Bungie canon trumps over Halopedia canon. -  <font color="#FF4F00">5 əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7 aŋk (<font color="#FF4F00">7alk ) 15:54, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * A slightly different note, don't you think it would be more appropriate to use the Halo 3 turret's image?-- Fluffy Emo Penguin 02:25, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * ^actually, that might make sense for now, but I would add another section with a picture and description of the HR machinegun.71.132.130.189 06:30, June 18, 2010 (UTC)

This had better be a retcon of some sort...  Smoke Sound off! 17:09, June 18, 2010 (UTC)

Ok, I think we have sufficient evidence to tell that this is not an AIE-486H. The career stats seem to be shaky info as a few weapons have been misnamed (the assault rifle and plasma cannon) and most weapons seem to have been named in a very informal way. I think that even though it is technically Bungie canon, it is kind of unreliable. We should go ahead and make the new page in my opinion.

Evidence Disproving the AIE-486H Name:

1) The Halo: Reach Beta's career stats description is the exact same as Halo 3's career stats description. This describes the turret as "...slow to spin up to full firing rate.", which is a characteristic only found in the Halo 3 turret.

2) The ammunition box on the Reach turret says "12mm HVE", a very different round than the 7.62mm used by the AIE.

3) The most obvious evidence, they are two completely different types of machine guns. There is no way they could have the exact same name.

-- Fluffy Emo Penguin 03:21, July 2, 2010 (UTC)

Something I just noticed. The turret mounted on the Scorpion in the Beta is called an M247, the same as the Halo 3 Scorpion's turret and Halo 2 stand-alone turret. This can't be right as the turret on the Reach Scorpion is the same weapon as the Reach turret in its stand-alone form. I think this is further evidence that Bungie's career stats should no longer be taken seriously.-- Fluffy Emo Penguin 20:30, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

Oh! New loophole discovered! Since the Reach Beta stats page no longer exists, there is no source stating that it is an AIE. Is this enough to create a separate page titled "Unknown Turret blah blah blah"?-- Fluffy Emo Penguin 21:55, July 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Would it kill to wait until the release? Just leave the info here until further updates arrive. If its the same, then we'll be fine. If not, then just create a separate page.
 * What kind of info would the release have? Seriously?-- Fluffy Emo Penguin 22:33, July 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * That's the thing: we don't know yet. So just be quiet and wait.
 * The release wouldn't have jack. It most definately won't tell you in-game and I'm pretty pessimistic that the game manual will tell you anything either.-- Fluffy Emo Penguin 03:23, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

Brutes using turrets
I saw a brute using the turret in the past. I have a picture also. Is this noteworthy?Brute using turretAnoson 10:11, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

Ammunition theories
To make this clear, I'm not suggesting that we change anything on the page yet, I'm just throwing out some theories. This weapon is classified as a heavy machine gun, yet it is stated to use a 7.62x51mm round, too small to make this weapon classified as "heavy". I would like to know where the info on which round this turret uses came from. I know it says "7.62mm" on the turret boxes in forge, but those same boxes say "M247" on them, (the turret from Halo 2 which uses the 7.62mm), so it could be a mistake. The turret in Halo: Reach says "12mm HVE" on its ammunition box; this would classify it as a heavy machine gun for sure. Although I think we're on the general consensus that this turret was misnamed in the carnage reports as the AIE-486H. Even so, these two turrets share the same firing sound and power, meaning that they would most likely use the same round. Another point to bring up, the NMPD officers in Halo 3: ODST call it a ".50", so this could be even further evidence.-- Fluffy Emo Penguin 16:34, June 26, 2010 (UTC)

And a few more points (that I forgot to add), the real-life M134 minigun has 6 rotating barrels and uses the 7.62x51mm. It can achieve a rate of fire of 3000 RPM, whereas the AIE-486H can only achieve 600 RPM. Since it has 3 barrels instead of 6, I would guess it would have around half the rate of fire (1500 RPM) but it is still nowhere near that. A good assumption would be that the AIE uses a higher caliber round and is indeed a true HMG. In my final point, look at the ammunition belt feeding into the AIE. It looks much more like .50 caliber ammunition to me. It is almost identical to the belt feeding into the Warthog's .50 caliber M41 LAAG turret.-- Fluffy Emo Penguin 19:59, June 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * The 7.62mm designation on the AIE-486H was probably just something Bungie carried over from Halo 2, to save time, similiar to what you stated. 343 then proceeded to use the information on the box for their mention of the gun. When Bungie updated the turret in Halo: Reach (which I believe is an Army variant of the gun) they updated the designation as well. In the end, I think it's a minor mistake on Bungie, that when more information is released, will be fixed. --Blah 20:10, June 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * Completely agree with you Fluffy Emo Penguin, but you should correct something, the real life M134 Minigun can achieve a maximum ROF of 4000 to 6000 RPM, and not the 3000 RPM that you said ;) - also, the GAU-19 which is a modern day 3-barreled gatling gun, also fires .5 cal, and has much lower ROF than the M134, being of only about 1000 to 2000 RPM--Fipas 21:56, June 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * To contribute somewhat belatedly, a Wikipedia search the other night told me that a 7.62mm SLAP round consists of your average 7.62mm bullet held inside a sabot, allowing it to fit in a .50 calibre barrel. This would suggest to me that the AIE-486H is a .50 cal HMG that in addition to saboted 7.62mm rounds for armour penetration, it can also fire full-sized .50 cal ammo.--The All-knowing Sith&#39;ari 17:51, August 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'd also like to point out that we've never really had an 'official' say at what round it fires. The 7.62mm came from the boxes, which were incorrectly labelled (as mentioned above!) but in the in-game dialogue, it is always referred to as a 'fifty-cal' or 'fifty' in both the Halo 3 campaign and in Halo 3: ODST. It would make sense for it to be .50 in terms of its heavy machine-gun status and the amount of damage it does, but apparently in-game dialogue isn't good enough for this wiki. For some reason. Because lets be honest, there is more evidence saying it fires .50 rounds rather than 7.62mm SLAP rounds. (grump over) Diaboy 01:16, August 28, 2010 (UTC)

Range
Is there any other information on this weapons effective range (Bungie updates, ect.)? The Halo Encyclopedia: The Definitive Guide to the Halo Universe lists it's effective range at 100 meters yet the far less effective M247 General Purpose Machine Gun from Halo 2 is stated in the Encyclopedia to have a range of 1,100 meters. I don't want to add the range of 100 meters, because it seems to be a mistake. --Blah 19:03, June 27, 2010 (UTC)

separate
i purpose that the halo reach version should be moved to it's own article, although they have the same name (which i'm sure it's only a typo by Bungie)since you can clearly see from the images provided that the Halo 3 version and the Reach version are completely diferent weapons, they're very style design is completely diferent, the H3 is of a gatling-style, while the reach is of normal single barrel design--Fipas 19:17, June 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * I REALLY wish we could, but we cannot call it anything else because the only name that has been given to it is the AIE-486H, no matter how bogus it is. I think that eventually we will get a new name for it, possibly when Bungie updates their Ordnance page.-- Fluffy Emo Penguin 05:05, June 28, 2010 (UTC)