Talk:Human

Picture?
I suggest using a different pictures as Avery J. Johnson is overly used. How about a crew member of The Pillar of Autumn--Gzalzi 07:13, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Expansion?
I think this article would do well if we integrated some of the things on the UNSC page, weapons, worlds, and vehicles.
 * Not necessarily. Humans are a species, not a faction. -- ED ( talk )(shockfront) 22:15, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

thought
i had a thought about another reason why the covenant haven't asked humans to join them,maby they don't ask races that are already an empire to join them(i.e. if they would meet us today in real life, they might ask us to join,but if we where to colonized other planets some time in the future,they would attack us like in halo)Johnny 00:45, 7 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Here's something to think about: the Covenant doesn't ask if you want to join, they conquer you so that you don't have a choice. And yes since the UNSC is a force to be reckoned they won't try to take us over like the others. They probably would do it if they met us today. But there might be another reason behind the annihilation initiative. --[[Image:Final Goji.jpg|30px]] Lordofmonsterisland  "Roar to me"  00:33, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

ya but it is a good idea for another reason why they havn't tryed to make or ask humans to join themJohnny 00:45, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Um... you guys, the reason the Prophets waged war on humanity in the first place is because they resemble the Foreunner.

Humanity in the covenant? i think not
sorry i'm not quite sure how to reply but, i think Humanity would choose a decent place within the Covenant if asked rather than total genocide, Human tech and world would have been gladly incorporated into the covenant i think, then we would have discovered the true purpose of halo by screwing with it (as we always do with things) and then we'd rebel, therefore putting us back at square one, genocide :P

ya we always screw with things don't we,and some times it's screws up everything when we do Johnny 01:05, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

human - covenant
if the covenant know the forerunners treat humans as 'reclaimers', then why fight the humans? After all the covenant worship the forerunners, it's like going against the forerunners choices.  What  did HaloDude  Do!?!  11:09, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Maybe the UNSC was in the way of what the Covenant was searching for and instead of asking if they could look, they decided to kill everyone. Alexspartan117 12:04, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

ya that could be why Alexspartan117 Johnny 00:05, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

It is more then likely that Truth was in charge of the Covenant at the start of the war. As we know truth thought of himself as a god, so any other race favored by the god that might lessen his power would obviously have to be eliminate. For example, the Elites. ProphetofTruth 05:44, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Humans and Forerunner
I noticed that the section about the forerunner and humans was very biased against the theory the humans are decendants of the forerunner, despite the huge amount of [obvious] evidence supporting it, and that all that evidence was left out, so I put in the evidence that supports humans are forerunner incarnate and that the issue of whether that is true is still up to debate because of bungies cryptic way of getting the forerunners story across. I did not remove any information.

Sign your posts. And it is known they are related in some way, its just not known how. So you have it backwords, we DO know humans are related, just HOW is up for debate (until the trilogy comes out hopefully) well, not backwords, but messed up.Papayaking 07:11, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

rename.
Here is something to consider, in all other articles concerning a particular race they've had their general name, then their official name, like: Grunts(Ungguy). So, I think we should rename this article "Humans(Homo-Sapien)". What do you think?

ya but we're only called humans,unlike the coives who call them selfs by their names not by the human names for them Johnny 14:47, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

pic
can we use it ÇЋЇŒʢ ʕЛΆΝќAegis Company  βĻά βĻά βĻάɰЊάł Ḷ ḍõИШ  01:16, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Maybe...

The Sarge  Comm CSV 03:15, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Well, it doesn't go very far into the future... and, it seems to imply a very low birth rate, which isn't consistent with the Halo canon description of "massive population surges"

http://www.halowars.com/GameInfo/Timeline.aspx

Also, your 99 million births per year estimate is flawed and makes no sense. Population growth is a differential equation of the current population, so dP/dt = kP

If we use separation of variables, we get:

dt = dP/kP

int(kdt) = int(dp/P)

kT = ln(kP) + C

P = e^(kT - C)

P(T) = Ce^(kT)

So, if k is the rate of change of population, C is the initial population, and T is the time, P(T) is our population. If we accept C as 6 billion, and k as 2%, by 2553 we get a world population of 314 trillion.

I personally believe that population growth will remain exponential for a while, but in developed countries today population is starting to level out due to birth control.

--CaptainZoidberg 02:13, 8 March 2008 (UTC) in reallity the population grow up about 1,67% each year but all calculator system i try wassnt able to give me the resultC F 0 0 1 01:56, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Merged
Should this page be merged with Marines?--Karzhani 04:48, 7 December 2007 (UTC)


 * No. Marines is the military force, while Human is the race. Is Sangheili merged with Sanheili Minor? -- Sgt. <font color="Black">johnson [[Image:General-gr1.gif|30px]] 02:14, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Weight
I tried to add the Weight category into the template, but it won't show up. If there's anyone who can make it show up, that would be appreciated, thanks. Pyro Python 17:00, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Future Population
The population predicted in this article is grossly inaccurate. Having studied demographics, I can tell you that growth would only remain contant if birth control practices, healthcare, standard of living, and a myriad of other factor remained unchanged. As the figure stated in the article is, unfortunately, conjecture, I would recommend its reassessment or removal. Blackhawk003 04:34, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

I concur. It should be removed or revised.LemonDragon 15:13, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Eridanus II
Could it be only the people from Eridanus II are related to the Forerunners? <font color="00008B">Matoro3311 <font color="C0C0C0">"Shout At Me""My Contribs" 16:59, 14 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I doubt it. Unless Miranda Keyes, John, the Spartan-II's, Johnson, and the other humans that were given Reclaimer status all came from Eridanus II. Johnson is from Earth, an established fact, and while Miranda Keyes may have been raised on Reach, her father was from Earth too. And the Spartans were selected from across the entire UNSC, some 800 planets. --  Administrator  Specops306  -  Qur'a 'Morhek   Honour Light Your Way!  11:11, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Holy Crap I just finished a crapload of edits on this page. Well, I may as well explain myself.
Wow. This page was missing a lot I must say. Ended up tweaking and flat out adding a lot of details concerning humanity's advancement as a species. For one thing, the scientific method alone cannot account for modern humanity's unprecedented growth rates. The 18th thru 20th Century, *not* just the 20th century alone, as initiated by the Industrial Revolution are benchmark eras behind our recent turning point as a species: with the advent of Constitution style democratic/republic societies securing the human rights necessary for us to utilize our fullest potentials.

Its the fact that nowadays we can produce veritable legions of talented minds AND efficiently back them up with the resources they need to do their job (thanks to Capitalism becoming the ever preferred economic system of the world, resulting in big-ass think tanks known as "Corporations"), as opposed to the old days when we might have had only one genius per century (whom we promptly executed for threating our paranoid ideals). And originally all this article had to cite was the scientific method? I mean I know it helped but wait...That's it? That's when we became omgfast at improving our tech? Huh?

Also, I have to say, I was really unimpressed by the population estimate. In the form I found it in it demonstrated a gross lack of understanding concerning population growth and generational demographics within developing nations. First of all, the historically record high population counts have less to do with perceived increases in "birth rates" and way way WAY(!) more to do with *drastically* reduced death rates. You know, what with us not engaging in bloody combat that lasts for decades cause my monarch has some kind of emo love affair with your monarch and all. You know, what with us no longer getting pwn'd by no0b diseases, etc, etc. Additionally, many people have unheard of the typical demographic shifting of generations as a nation goes from "2nd World" to "1st World". While a societal demographic is still developing, its common from them to exhibit an explosion (note that explosions are known for being brief) of birth rates for the first generation or so of growth (a baby-boomer generation as its were), followed by abruptly reduced birth rates for the next generation after that demographic has brought itself up to full speed; birth rates that are generally even lower than what was happening before the baby boom hit. In other words, birth rates tend to be LOGARITHMIC across generations and are far from linear. Again, not that it matters because the real reason more people are on Earth today is because no one is dying the way they used to, giving old people more time to plot neo-communist takeovers of the entire solar system. Ahem, had no choice but to make the population section reflect that. Hope no one minds.

One last thing: Space is not finite. Us crafty humans can reorganize our architecture to make it do more with less if and when the time comes. Market forces will, as always, dictate how we develop our land, but its not like "OMG eVarY squar kILO Of daE EARTH pLuS ItS ATMOSPHERE aND ev3n The Same witH thE soL ColoniES iS occupIed sO itS NOT Even l1KE WE CAN EV3N jUS7 simply mAke a sLIGHTly talleR aPARTmENT buILding OH NOES!!!" Nah, if we develop FTL, that's not how our migration is going to be. The real reason we'll colonize isn't because we "need" to as though our very survival depends upon it, but simply because the real estate over there is cheaper and more convenient what with less bureaucrats getting in your way. And cheap convenient real estate that also happens to sit on a mountain of titanium (or what have you) = $$$ = migration efforts reminiscent of the Gold Rush. Some vague prospect of "develop FTL and colonize or face extinction" would've had nothing to do with it; more like humanity had to move lest it pay higher stupid mortgages. Planets, by definition, are pretty whopping places that are hard to literally fill up especially given creative enough architecture, hence, if in the future suddenly "we" (as in, humans) decided that "we" (as in, not the planet itself), had run out of "space" it probably has more to do with something lame like bureaucratic zoning restrictions or some other kind of idiotic red tape born of moron policy that was inhibiting our ability to reshuffle our currently utilized space in anticipation of new real estate demands. Therefore an understandable amount of unrest if suddenly the "Earth (Sol colonies included)" is perceived as "overpopulated" for precisely these shadowy reasons.

Thus, for that above plethora of mega complicated reasons, I simply added little one word adjectives as "deemed" or "considered" in front of words like "overpopulated", and words like "comfortably" or "reasonably" in front of parts concerning the Earth being unable to "sustain" humanity. Sheesh, Earth will sustain humanity for as long as market forces give us incentives not to abuse resources without considering our wallets. I'm appalled by how much the article seemingly underestimated our ability to adapt when I first found it.

Anywho, I think that about sums up everything I tinkered around with. Well ok, maybe "sums up" isn't the word for it. More like: I think that excessively rants about everything I tinkered around with.

~TheHolyDarkness Out~ --TheHolyDarkness 06:41, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Info Box Pic
Can someone change the pic in the info box.It is so dark you can hardly see the guy.What happen to the other pic?I would do it my self but I don't know how to change it.SPARTAN-177 05:10, 1 July 2008 (UTC)


 * And the current image includes an Elite, the Arbiter. --<tt><font color="#7BA05B">Odysseas-Spartan<font color="#4B5320"> 53 </tt>|[[Image:O-S-53.jpg|40px]] 17:03, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Trivia?
There is no Trivia section.

FIx it.LemonDragon 15:14, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Umm...how are we supposed to make trivia about our own race?

Population
I'm really glad the population part of the article was reposted. Apparently someone didn't like it and deleted it, but i think it's a good estimate and should be kept. Kudos to whoever did the math on that one.

Rampant Speculation
Seriously, this is getting beyond ridiculous. If I am not mistaken, isn't one of the policies on this page to post information that is fully canonical and not just air-headed speculation?

I was just going through this page out of curiousity, and I found these in the trivia section:

'''*Another less common but more likely theory is that the Forerunners were actually humans (today's humans, not in-game humans). This theory is supported by the fact that the Halos were fired approx. 100,000 years before the events of Halo: Combat Evolved (2552). Assuming that Earth is within the range of at least one Halo Installation, all sentient life on Earth would have been wiped out at about 97,448 B.C., and about 102,552 years after humanity started looking like they do today. Therefore, humanity would have died in the first firing of the Halo rings, and a new race of very similar sentient beings evolved on Earth again.

*In Halo: Combat Evolved, 343 Guilty Spark refers to human history as "a record of all our lost time", giving further evidence that humans are possible descendants of the Forerunners.'''

The first quote is both strange and nonsensical. Whoever posted this claims that with the Halo Array firing 100,000 years before the events of the series, any sentient life on Earth would have been eliminated. While that is correct, the poster asserts that Humans were destroyed, and then magically reappeared in the ensuing time period. The poster has missed some very important details; Humans had already existed on Earth for over 100,000 years prior to Array firing, and they were also a part of the several million year-old Hominid lineage of Earth.

Another detail is that that the Humans had been Indexed and sent to the Ark. While their math is correct, the interpretation is not; the Human inhabitants of Earth were already safe when the Array fired, so after that event, they were returned to Earth and became as they are in the Halo trilogy. There wasn't a new "sentient species" evolving out nowhere; the original sentient inhabitants were taken away, and put back afterwards. This place has far too much loopy logic.

The second quote, however, is far more difficult to address. While it is true that this is the first revealing of Humanity's relation to the Forerunner, it is not free of contradictions. As is characteristic of Bungie, cryptic storytelling makes quotes like these having a very ambiguous context. Many factors have to be considered, which includes changing ideas within the story canon which makes earlier material dubious or irrelevant, and this one is hard to assess.

As revealed by IRIS and the Terminals, Humans were already found on Earth when the Forerunner found them, they were "chosen" above the other races for the "Mantle", and then indexed and sent to Ark, upon which they were later returned. If they were descendants of the Forerunner, then Humanity would not have existed on Earth at all until the Forerunner came, which if you look at the relevant information, did not happen. Humans were merely taken elsewhere and then returned to their homeworld.

Finally, the connection between the Forerunner and Humanity is not a simple one, as theories like these would attest. Here you have two separate species who "appear" to be identical and even related, but the exact nature of that is left ambiguous. IRIS and the "Castaway" false book seem to point us in the right direction, by saying that the Humans of Earth were altered in some subtle way, distinguising them from the rest of Earth's life.

The Forerunner saw something in Humanity that was unique, as IRIS mentioned in Server 5 that Humans provided "answers" to their own mysteries. This could mean that Humans had the same genetic markers as they did, or they found that they both came from a common ancestor or contributor, such as the Precursors mentioned so often. But all of this is a far cry from saying that the Forerunner "settled on Earth, gave up all their technology and their cilivization, and degenerated into modern Humans" fan theory.

I wish people would stop throwing in their pet theories and passing them off as factual information just because it suits them. There is a difference between inferrences and off-the-limb speculation. I hope that people here will know the difference.

--Exalted Obliteration 22:46, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

And how exactly would humans that long ago make halo? I cant imagine cavemen making a giant space ring out of unknown materials, in outer space...an unkown distance away from earth, plus, other than the portal, there was no forerunner "relics" on earth. All of that plus, it contradicts already known information. So yes, that theory was, putting it softly, stupid.Papayaking 07:07, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Weight and Population
First of all, are the articles supposed to be written from a point after the Human-Covenant war, or when? According to the Bestiarum (the Human section, because there aren't page numbers...) There are only 200 Million humans left.

Also, their height is correct, according to the Bestiarum canon. Though their weight is not on there!?! Also according to canon, the average appears to be 90 kilograms, or roughly 198 pounds. Steve2frag 16:03, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Typo
"Alternatively, if the population of "200 million" quoted by the Halo 3 Bestiarum was actually intended to be "200 billion", a simple one letter typo, and the numbers presented in the preceding paragraph are correct, this would imply that the "sudden change" was the loss of 72.5 billion lives. A remaining population of 200 billion would be staggeringly large from our present day perspective, but for those enduring the war, the loss of over a fifth of the population would likely be horrifying. The possibility of a typo also seems to be supported by the Bestiarum's quote for the Unggoy population, which seems very low relative to the rest of the Covenant races."

- Someone

Why is it so hard for people to accept this figure? Humanity is on the brink of extinction - Bungie have always maintained that. The UNSC is about to collapse. Earth has been devastated by the Covenant. 200 million is a perfectly reasonable number. -- ' Administrator  Specops306  -  Qur'a 'Morhek ''  Honour Light Your Way! ''' 22:48, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Religous advancement!?
I find this phase to be a complete oxymoron. Religion has been a detriment to humanity not benificial so i removed this small portion leaving it to say "Economic, political and scientific..."

Guilty Spark Quote
Guilty Spark says in Halo Combat Evolved "I am so glad to see that some of you got away to reproduce." That right there should say that humanity is related to the Forerunner somehow right?


 * 1.)Please sign your posts with 4~. 2.)I check that lightbulb's quote page and I can't find a quote that is even close to what you said so I really don't know if your qoute is 100% accurate and from what I have heard about something similair to what you gave he is talking about the Flood.SPARTAN-177 03:23, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

He WAS talking about the flood, and he said: I am so happy some of THEM escaped to reproduce. I think he was "happy" because the mantle and the all sentient life thing about it. So no, no one knows (exept bungie) how they are related, all of you people who just think they are genetically related can wait and see when the trilogy comes out (if it says).Papayaking 07:19, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Human-Forerunner theory
maybe you heard it plenty of times but imagine that humans were forerunners but after a while of evolving (or devolving) we became a subspecies and retained the look but not the physical strength or scientific know how of the original forerunners.the guy 343 chose to get the index is thought to be a SPARTAN-1 so that way the forerunner might have been stronger still physical identical without a combat skin, that's why 343 chose Mater Chief next!!!--Sangheili wunna be 05:38, 11 August 2009 (UTC)