Talk:Sangheili/Archive 1

Cluttered
The article on combatting Elites should be a separate article, not on this page. -- SpecOps306 01:11, 2 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Agree--Gzalzi 22:41, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Innaccurate Pictures
The pictures of the supposed "minor" was made with a multiplayer model and is of the wrong color and carrying uncommon minor elite weapons. The spec ops commander picture also seems wrong. It is a grainy photo, and looks like someone sloppily turned a Halo CE Elite purple and called it a Halo 2 Spec Ops purple Elite.


 * Many of the Elites have been editted out of their original images. The very white Elite is from an old Bungie-released picture, the purplish SpecOps was standing next to pink shields that reflected off his armor, and I'm pretty sure the Minor comes from an old Bungie image as well. --Dragonclaws 04:58, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

I checked on Halo: Combat Evolved that a Spec Ops Elites armour is in fact purple, if you look properly. I was fighting a couple of Spec Ops Elites and when I killed them, I switched on my flashlight and looked at the Elite... purple armour showed. It only looks black if the Elite is in a dark place or a poorly lit room. Don't be mistaken. You have to shine some light on it to show its true colour... the same goes with Stealth Elites, shine your flashlight on a Stealth Elite (has to be in a dark room) and you will see grey armour. Try it and see. User:Joshua 029

-The Spec Op elite armour is black, glossed with a violet overcoating. This is why the the black armour appears "purple" in high intensity lighting.

YEAH

speaking of pictures a picture of a supreme commander elite form the graphic novel would be nice. the wikipedia page has a picture

Elite Jaws
One suggestion for how the Elites speak may be that they use tiny muscles near the top of their throats to contract “lips” of skin inside, thereby enabling them to form words. These muscles would presumably be connected to the mandibles. They would chew their food by moving their lower mandibles underneath whatever they were eating and using their upper mandibles and jaw to chew.

Evidence to support the throat-muscle speaking theory is based on the fact that Spec Ops Commander Rtas 'Vadumee, who is missing his left mandibles, is still able to speak, suggesting that the Elites don’t form words with their mandibles. If you take a close look inside their mouths you can see quite a lot of skin inside, which could be how they form words.

The chewing theory is one idea of how Elites could chew.

Any comments or suggestions? This theory might be completely wrong. If anyone has any other theories, write them down, or edit this one.

Or if they can't chew it might work like how soldier ants are fed. You know like, the elites could be fed by lower races like soldier ants because of the way their mouths teeth are or in this case mandibles.--prophit of war 00:02, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

They use thier teeth on thier mandibles

What I'm saying is Soldier ants have too big of teeth to eat that they're fed and Elites probably can't chew because of how their mandibles are so they might be fed by lower races, Soldeir Ant:lesser ants as Elites:Lesser races. Do you get what I'm saying?

Maybe those teeth aren't even used for chewing. Maybe for something else like if they can eat gripping or something, I don't know.--prophit of war 15:44, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Well I say that they eat their pray whole....is what it is...the gap on the bottem is to assist in consumeing their pray --Gzalzi 19:16, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Names
When is the Elite naming method stated? --Dragonclaws 06:43, 2 September 2006 (UTC)


 * In the article, method is stated in the Culture section. I'm not sure where it is in real life, but I think it could be on one of the Halo websites, or the books -J.f
 * Yeah, I'm asking for a source of the info. --Dragonclaws 10:51, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
 * If you look in the Halo Library site and go down the menu to Covenant>Species>Elites there's a passage there including the Elite naming method. This particular paragraph was apparently copied into Halopedia because the words are exactly the same. This could be a source that you're after. The adress is http://library.psyjnir.net/?id=44 -User:J.f
 * Alternatively, the page could have been copied from Halopedia and then I'm wrong, but I don't think so because most of the rest of the article doesn't match with Halopedia. -J.f
 * The Library was created before Halopedia and the content hasn't really changed since. If there's no offical source, I'm inclined to remove it as non-canon. --Dragonclaws 09:25, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I think you're right about there being no official source for the naming method. On Bungie. net (the official bungie website)I searched the news section (where Bungie occaisionally writes articles about the halo universe) and there was nothing referring to the Elite naming method. -J.f
 * I recall seeing the same info at wikipedia. The source was not quoted there, either. -ED 19:03, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
 * The paragraph claims that the "ee" at the end of a name is an honorific meaning that the person is in the military, but the Elite Kusovai violates that rule. I'll conjecture that it was just speculation made at a time when all known Elite names ended in "ee". --Dragonclaws 22:46, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
 * It was never directly said if that was a nickname or not though. Also, keep in mind that the rile still appears to be true, the only Elite known to be a civilian does not have "ee" at the end of his name. -ED 23:30, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I still cannot find a source for the article, but Covenant Battlenet (another site for Halo info) has the exact same, word for word, article, seen here: http://www.covenant-clan.co.uk/battlenetraces.htm. Perhaps it is in one of the game manuals?--Rotaretilbo 16:36, 06 December 2006

I asked on HBO, and got a response saying: ''It's from a Halo Bible excerpt as printed in the Halo PC Strategies and Secrets guide, so it's official enough. :) The publisher of the book is Sybex. That segment about Elite names comes from page 48.'' --Dragonclaws 00:52, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
 * You can actually read some of Halo: Combat Evolved: Sybex Official Strategies & Secrets at Amazon. Some interesting facts about the armour. -- Esemono 02:14, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

elite colors
"Rank is indicated by uniform color - purple being that of an Elite footsoldier, red that of a veteran and so on up the chain of command. A black, or gold-suited Elite is a very dangerous opponent indeed" that was from bungie.net, so that settles that the first elite color is purple.

Sangheili
Hey Dragonclaws, should we add info from the thread on HBO about the meaning of the name? If so, I can add it between my classes tomorrow, if not... If anyone else wants to chime in... http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=751479 --Vlad3163 04:21, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, it's only speculation so far. The only thing I've seen people agree on (not just in that thread) is that "sang" means "blood." Until there can be some kind of consensous, I would say we hold off on posting it. --Dragonclaws 07:13, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Rank
who is higher? the arbiter or a councillor?
 * The Arbiter is the tool of the High Prophets, so I think he would be higher. --Dragonclaws 20:09, 13 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, since the Arbiter is the "TOOL" of the High Prophets(One can infer that this means that he doesn't actually have much, if any, freedoms), I would think that the Arbiter is below the Councillors.--Dredens 22:30, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, the Councillor would probably have greater political power, but the Arbiter would probably be in control of a combat situation. --Dragonclaws 23:18, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
 * i've just read that imperial admiral is the highest rank you can get in the covenant in the ghost of oynx section. so is this imperial admiral higher than the arbiter in a combat situation?--syc2506
 * In that article, it states that, "As an "imperial admiral," Xytan 'Jar Wattinree holds the highest military rank known possible for an Elite, save Councilor." This being said, "save the Counciler" would mean except for the Counciler. In other words, the Councilers would be higher in ranking status, seeing as how they are the only known official rank of political office, it can be inferred that all of the other ranks hold little or no political power. Seeing as how no matter what society that one lives in, military principals are set into government by public political officials, the polocies that are enacted by the Councilers would affect even the highest ranks of the military, showing that, they still hold some power over every rank.(as seen during the opening scene of Halo 2 with their version of a court martial). -- Dredens 00:41, 26 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Arbiters probably work outside the normal Military, taking orders only from Prophets, and are supposed to be "consumed" during times of need, so I think its safe to say that Arbiters aren't given any real power, due to they usually die during whatever assignment they're given.--MasterThief 13:19, 5 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I would have to agree with MasterThief regarding the Arbiter's place within the Covenant social structure. I doubt he has any real power or political authority. The way the position is described it leaves me with the impression of a champion or a secret agent. The Arbiter would have as much authority as the Prophets allowed him to have, while the position itself gives him no subordinates. He would be seen as the direct agent for the will of the Hierarchs, but have no powers beyond that.--Cu Roi 02:16, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Why arent imperial admirals mentioned in this article?--JohnSpartan117 08:12, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Some one gave them thier own article see Imperial Admiral --Climax Viod 18:08, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

It should also be placed on this page!Or merged--User:JohnSpartan117 23:11, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

In Halo: the Flood, if Isna 'Nosolee was an Ossoona does that mean he had brown armour? User: Joshua 029


 * So it's been decided then, the Councillors are higher then the Arbiter. So can someone tell me why Farazz keeps changing things to say the Arbiter is the highest rank possible? --Shch &#39;Nodotee 14:53, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm Faraz, and I've didn't knew that this article existed until now, and I've also have changed it back. User:Faraz22 23 January, 15:22 (UTC)

Genetic
Elites are not a genetic race. Otherwise there would be lower caste of elites. Also, did the arbiter have the same rank of the imperial admiral. It said in Halo Ghost o Onyx that he was also the former supreme commander of a fleet. It even said in Halo Ghost of Onyx that he was Ex-supreme commander of fleet of Particular justice. I think someone editted my post and whoever did please stop because what I mean is what I mean and with all do respect your making it sound unspecific.sorry--User:Halo3 22:48, 24 December 2006

The arbiter was a supreme commander, he commanded the fleet of particular justice, but imperial admirals command armadas, which are much bigger than fleets. User: Joshua 029

I dont know about the genetics thing, but the abiter did have the same rank, then was stripped of rank.

The Elites are born worrriors it means they have it in their blood--Irving 17:37, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

There is no armada
Actually there are no armadas mentioned in the Halo Universe. Also, like I said before, Halo Ghost of Onyx said the Former Supreme commander and also said Ex-Supreme commander. This means they are most likely the same thing. Oh and in Halo Ghost of Onyx it said he also controlled a fleet combined fleet not an armada. Even if he did combine the fleet that doesn't make him higher ranked.--halo3


 * At the ending of The Maw Cortana states

'We did what we had to do. . . for Earth. An entire Covenant armada obliterated, and the Flood. . . we had no choice. Halo. It's finished. ' -- Forerunner- 16:44 06/01/07 (UTC)

Actually, the Zealot in the opening sequence of Halo 2 is the Arbiter. Also, Supreme Commander is one of several ranks within the rank of Zealot. So that proves he was a Zealot.

Also, if Imperial Admirals are equivalent to an Admiral (what with leading huge fleets and all), Supreme Commanders are Vice Admirals, leading medium-sized fleets. Respect them Grunts, --Mouse among men 03:05, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Alright your right ,but one thing,
Alright so your right with the armada.But, if cortana refered to the ships and soldiers safegaurding Halo as an armada that would mean that the arbiter had indeed commanded an armada as he placed responsible for the ships and soldiers at halo and was supreme commander (Imperial Admiral) of the covenant ships and soldiers therefore making him the equivelent to an Imperial Admiral after you mentioned the Imperial Admiral controlled an armada or simply a combined fleet.Halo3 06:16, 13 January 2007 (UTC)--Halo3

elite with no armor
where did u get the elite with no armor pic?  яÏΜFÏяΣ  the rebelious anarchist  Phencyclodine | undefined Tetryl  21:15, 10 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Dojorkan modded Halo 2 so he could take screenshots of various poses of an Elite with the naked Arbiter skin seen in the cinematics. While the poses themselves are non-canon, the skin was made by Bungie so I think it works in the article. --Dragonclaws 21:21, 10 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Both the elite in THAT picture DO have armor. -confused-
 * The picture to the right is from a previous thread. The picture we are talking about is here. --Dragonclaws 21:34, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

But Dragonclaws is indeed right. I dont know what you mean by poses though, Dragonclaws. I didnt change their animations or reposition their limbs in any way. --Dojorkan 21:29, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I just meant the way you moved the characters around. In the actual storyline, an Elite does not jump around the Council Chambers naked while waving a sword. --Dragonclaws 21:33, 10 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Taken out of context(since we are talking about naked arbiter), waving a sword almost sounds like something else. XD Anyways -ahem-.

I was actually playing as him. =P And I actually didnt notice that picture was used in this article until now. --Dojorkan 01:35, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Age + Lifespan
Has there ever been anything that might hint to how long Sangheili live? I've always wondered this...--Shch &#39;Nodotee 01:43, 11 January 2007 (UTC)


 * You know that right there is a very good question. Since elites are generally repitillians (reptiles), I'd specifically guess that they gnerally live about as long as a human. Reptiles sometimes live longer and live shorter but it's usually a blend. I'm guessing.Halo3 03:00, 13 January 2007 (UTC)--Halo3


 * They're reptilian? Where do we hear that?  guesty - persony - thingy  03:00, 13 January 2007 (UTC)


 * First of all they look like they have scales. Second they are most likely carnivourous as the have the four mandible with the sharp teeth. Third the way the eyes are shaped look like reptile eyes. Fourth, the elites head just has that reptiles look.Halo3 06:20, 13 January 2007 (UTC)--Halo3


 * Okay... I dunno about scales, and I have hi-res pictures of naked Arby. Also, being carnivorous doesn't make you a reptile; for example, I eat meat, but I'm not a reptile. I'm a mammal (or, according to Smith, a virus), so that really doesn't mean anything. Also also, I haven't really looked at the eyes, so there. Also also also, looking at the actual shape, rather than textures, can really tell you a whole lot more, so you might be right. But we don't really know, but since that's the best info we've got, the most we can assume is that it's somewhere near, as you say, a human's life expectancy. Also also also also, please don't make new sections in one continuous discussion. Instead click the edit button all the way to the right of where it says "age + lifespan," go right below the edit you're replying to, and put one more colon at the beginning than the post you're replying to. Thanks! But my point is, we just don't really know, so I don't think it should go into the article just yet, but maybe later, once we've got just a little more concrete evidence. =D  guesty - persony - thingy  06:30, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

The Elites' do look reptilian, theres not really any features on an Elite that look mammal-like. They look more reptilian, their skin is more scaley (not proper scales, but has a blend of scale features in their skin) and rough, their eyes are similar to crocodile eyes. User: Joshua 029

Armada?
Where did it even say that the Imperial Admiral commanded an armada in the first place? All Xytan did was combine 2 fleets of warships. That doesn't make him higher in rank than the former arbiter when he was supreme commander anyways.Halo3 06:25, 13 January 2007 (UTC)--Halo3

Title, not Rank? -Supreme Commander
Is it possible that the Spec Ops Commander was just being respectful to his commanding officer, and not calling him by rank but rather a title, like sir or officer? Now granted i'll admit i've not read the graphic novel, so i can't know for sure, but from what i've seen here it sounds more like a title not rank. Cause what's the real diffence between a Fleet Master and a Supreme Commander?--Shch &#39;Nodotee 17:13, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

The Fleet Master only commands many ships during an special objective that not needs all the ships in the fleet.


 * Ok, but how do we know that the artists weren't just trying to make the Arbiter look different from other elites. Not only that, but the artists weren't entirely correct when they drew the elites. Some had pink skin, i've never even heard of a "pink" elite, also some had different colored armor. --Shch &#39;Nodotee 00:20, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

What are you trying to say? Faraz22 18:04, 24 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure the Supreme Commander is an actual rank. I think it may be a title. I think the Supreme Commander in the comic may actually be something else, like an Imperial Admiral or Fleet Master. Although i may be wrong, but i'm not sure yet. --Shch &#39;Nodotee 17:59, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
 * In the Halo 2 special edition manual, there is a letter to the Prophet of Truth from "Supreme Commander, Fleet of Paticular Justice" so I'd say it's a title. --Dragonclaws(talk) 20:05, 24 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Ok. So Dragonclaws and i both believe it's a title, not rank. Is there anyone else that argees with us? I just don't feel it has enough supportable proof to be allowed to be a rank yet. Most examples point to it being a title, like sir. Also, when you compare Supreme Commander to Imperial Admiral, there's pretty much no difference, only amrour color, which could be different for each Imperial Admiral. --Shch &#39;Nodotee 22:46, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the confusion. I meant it's probably a rank because he signs a letter with it, rather than a name of respect by his underlings. You would call a Duke "Your grace," but he wouldn't sign his name that way. --Dragonclaws(talk) 22:56, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Imperial Admiral and Supreme Commander are different ranks, with Admiral outranking Commander, and there's a significant increase in responsibilty. Think of it this way: Colonels command about 2000 troops, while Brigadier Generals (only one step higher) control about 3000. See, huge difference. Respect them Grunts, --Mouse among men 03:05, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Conversation from.
Can you write down the conversation between the supreme commander and truth please?Halo3 20:59, 24 January 2007 (UTC)--Halo3


 * There already here on Halopedia. --Shch &#39;Nodotee 22:43, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't think so, just the Conversations from the Universe.

To the Prophet of Truth Most high and honored Prophet: It is with greatest shame that I lay myself before the judgement of the Council. I expect and will accept no mercy. My failure in this matter is absolute; I embrace my responsibility and my punishment.

The disgrace and blasphemy at Halo as an abomination caused by my incompetence and failure of judgement. Although the tales and rumors of the Demon have basis in fact, much of this talk is Unggoy superstition and exaggeration. Certainly the Demon, a Human, activated a catastrophic engine- failure sequence on the crashed Human vessel, but it was allowed to do so because of failures in security and tactics for which I bear full responsibility.

I have no good news to relay, but the Human action was suicidal, either by accident or design. I believe none escaped the catastrophe.

As ever, Jiralhanae accounts of the conflict are unreliable and their accounts of this Human's abilities and actions are absurd. No Human is capable of the things they gossip and chatter about. I suspect panic and excuse, as well as confusion caused by the spread of the parasite.

The Human in question is certainly unusual, although not the creature it has been described as. It stands taller than most, is faster and more aggressive, but still irrevocably a Human animal, worthy of neither fear nor respect. It is merely an exception that proves the rule. As always, Humans remain beneath our contempt. Their failure at Reach compounds their defeat. We sense that their defenses are failing rapidly. I have gathered information on the Human's armor, abilities, and weapons, which follows this report.

Perhaps more worrisome is the discovery and subsequent conflict with the parasite on Halo. This monstrosity festered, rotted, and waited on the Holy World, and although we cannot be sure, the Humans may have released it from its shackles. I do not presume to know the unknowable, but I suspect that the Forerunners meant this filth to stay imprisoned forever. The sacred grace of Halo was polluted before it was destroyed.

I await my punishment with faith and honor.

--Supreme Commander, Fleet of Particular Justice


 * Then the rest of the manual is written by him and has a bit of commentary in parts. Perhaps we should make an article about it. --Dragonclaws(talk) 22:51, 24 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, i see that now. So it is probably an actual rank, but i'm still not convinced that he wore purple armour with a cloak. Not even the Imperial Admiral has a cloak. I think Supreme Commanders probably wear the normal golden armour of a Zealot. As seen in the actual game. --Shch &#39;Nodotee 02:46, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, I think the Succor story is to be taken as accurate. Only Second Sunrise has weird shapes and colors, and in that it is glaringly obvious. --Dragonclaws(talk) 07:47, 25 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Ok. I'm convinced. Thanks Dragonclaws. --Shch &#39;Nodotee 16:04, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you Shch Nodotee for passing that idea on as I have also been spreading that idea.This idea is that the illustrators of the graphic novel altered the appearance of the characters in the graphic novel.Including the supreme commander.Like I said before, imperial admiral and supreme commander are particualrely the same thing.The fourth book of halo(Halo Ghost of Onyx),keeps saying things like, "the FORMER supreme commander"or"the EX-SUPREME COMMANDER".Oh and is there any more of the Coversations from the universe booklet that is not on the Halopedia.I'm blood thirsty for more.Halo3 20:04, 25 January 2007 (UTC)--Halo3


 * It wasn't from Conversations, it was from the special edition of Halo 2's manual. I've started a trascription of it here. --Dragonclaws(talk) 22:24, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

I think that the Imperial Admiral commands larger fleets than a Supreme Commander, and it seems to be a much higher honor of being an Imperial Admiral than a Supreme Commander, so I think that it's not EXACTLY the same thing, although it's very similar. Faraz22 21:25, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Many people say that but the only reason why the imperial admiral in Halo Ghost Of Onyx commanded a larger fleet was only because he combined two fleets without an upgrade in rank or permission/approval as a revolt against the brutes therefore he unofficially commands a larger fleet, he also and originally commanded one fleet about the size of a supreme commanders as there were seperate fleets along with other imperial admirals that commanded them.Like I said the Ghost of Onyx said the "Former"or "the Ex supreme commander" refering to the fact that there the same.I'll bet that if the arbiter combines two fleets that people would end up mistaking his rank too.Halo3 20:55, 25 January 2007 (UTC)--Halo3

I'm still quite sure that it is a difference between Imperial Admiral and Supreme Commander. Eric Nylund wouldn't write them as different ranks for nothing, so, it is a difference, we maybe just not know what difference it is yet, but it will be revealed....I hope! User:Faraz22 22:34, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

I have his e-mail and I will ask him.It is most likely that the two are the same.That wordFormer and Ex that the book uses is the proof. Here is the page of ghost of onyx to find the proof.page 239 it says."For the sin he had been exiled to the fringe worlds of the vast covenant empire.This happened before the FORMER supreme commander of the fleet of particular justice had never returned from the glorius mission the prophets had sent him on." Halo3 20:21, 31 January 2007 (UTC)--Halo3

Armor Difference: Arbiter
Hasn't anyone noticed that the Supreme Commander's armor in the halo graphic novel is diffrent from the halo 2 game? I mean, in the game, when he was being trialed in the High council, he was in zealot gold armor. But in the comic, he was in purple armor. What's up with that? jacket023 11:38, 2 Feburary 2007 (UTC)

He could have changed rank between the novel and the game. User:Faraz22 18:40, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

No he didn't change rank, it was the people who made the novel being creative.For example the elites in the mombassa story had pink skind and pink plasma swords opposed to the dark grey purple skin and the blue white plasma swords.Halo3 20:24, 2 February 2007 (UTC)--Halo3


 * I've already stated that i think the Supreme Commander actually wears golden Zealot armour, not purple cloaked armour. However, i'm not 100% sure, so i won't say anymore on the subject. --Shch 'Nodotee [[Image:Donut 7.JPG|35px]] 04:59, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Even if many things says that it wears golden armor, it should only be right if Supreme Commander was an Zealot title, cause if it's an own rank, it would be to easy for it to be taken for a Zealot. --Faraz22-- 11:45, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps it was a gesture of respect like a dress uniform to appear before the Council in the gold suit as opposed to the purple cloaked suit he wears while actually preforming as a Supreme Commander. Similiarly, Johnson wears white at the award ceremony. --Dragonclaws(talk) 11:23, 3 February 2007 (UTC)