Talk:Sh'wada-pattern supercarrier

This article was proposed to be merged with another Covenant Ship Classification


 * According to Rot at 23:15 6.12.06:


 * One page 236 of Halo: Ghosts of Onyx, you will note "The Unggoy Kwassass knew his pace aboard the Covenant supercarrier Sublime Transcendence." Above this, in the chapter data log, it says "ABOARD FLEET CARRIER SUBLIME TRANSCENDENCE, IN ORBIT ABOVE JOYOUS EXULTATION, SYSTEM SALIA". Thus, it can be concluded that not only is the supercarrier a Covenant warship, but it is also called the fleet carrier.
 * The Covenant Flagship may very well not be a Covenant ship classification, but rather an ambiguous term refering to a ship that commands a fleet.--Rotaretilbo 03:24, 12 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Also, I would like to question the length of the Supercarrier. Do we know if a Supercarrier is longer than an Assault Carrier (which is where I presume they get "longer than 5346 meters" as the length)? The Supercarrier may very well be shorter than the Assault Carrier.--Rotaretilbo 03:24, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Super carrier
It's possible that the ships with five bulbous sections that was 2 kilometers stem to stern was a super carrier. I'm not sure to whether write the article or not. I thought super carriers were the largest in the covenant fleet. It is still unconfirmed...

But it isn't confirmed, which is what matters.--Rot 22:40, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

As per Rot. Unconfirmed. Cheers, -49 Proximal Secant  17:13, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Already seen
Even though it is highly unlikely, I think it is possible we may have already seen the super carrier in halo 2. If you look carefully in the first cutscene of halo 2 a ship will pass under another ship. This ship appears to be much larger than the others. I'm not sure though.-- halo3
 * what? hmm...you mean the Assault Carrier passing underneath another ship? I'll see it again. Very possible, as High Charity was mentioned to be defendedby supercarriers. Cheers, 49 Proximal Secant[ oracle ][[Image:H3 Monitor.PNG|25px]] 02:18, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Not the assault carrier
I know it's hard to believe but look extremely carfully at the fleet surrounding high charity. If you look carefully enough you will notice a larger ship passing underneath a way smaller ship. This is very hard to believe but I think thats the super carrier. If you don't notice it and don't believe me thats fine ,but, if possible try and record the whole cutscene and please study it.--halo 3

As of Halo Reach, I'm pretty sure we can say the super carrier and the assault carrier are the same.--For the Swarm! 23:41, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

Although if you look at them the section between the front and rear of the supercarrier is a different size to the assault carrier.

Better Pic
I think i've found an image that's better than the old one, but i didn't have the time to make it better fitting the area. --Shch &#39;Nodotee 00:15, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Name Change..
From Supercarrier to Fleet Carrier, who is with me? --Gzalzi 22:57, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Supercarrier is the ship's classification, Fleet Carrier is its designation. Example: Master Sergeant might be a person's rank while Platoon Sergeant is his designation. Master Sergeant says that the person is of the pay roll E-8 and that he has command over any under that, and Platoon Sergeant means that he is the highest ranking Sergeant in his platoon and thus has special duties. The ship is a Supercarrier, and it also preforms the duties of a Fleet Carrier for the fleet. Think of Fleet Carrier as a disambiguous term like Flagship.
 * --Master Gunnery Sergeant Hank J Wimbleton IVCOM 16:37, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Flagship can go to any ship but it may be different for covenant though I doght it.Fleet carrier and super carrier is practically the same.Halo3 04:29, 4 March 2007 (UTC)--Halo3

I think the title "super carrier" is fine just the way it is.After all "super carrier" is it's more common name.It may be possible that fleet carrier can refer to any covenant carrier leading a fleet but like I said "super carrier" should be the title as it is the ships more common name.Even the books Halo First Strike and Halo Ghost Of Onyx use the name "super carrier" more than "fleet carrier"Halo3 20:31, 7 March 2007 (UTC)--Halo3

One question, what if assault carriers and super carriers are the same thing.I mean,we only see humans call a specific ship assault carrier.What if thats the human name and perspective of the ship.It could be possible that in the covenant perspective they call there own assault carriers super carriers.Halo3 03:36, 27 March 2007 (UTC)--Halo3

Being dat a UNSC battle Cruiser is 8-19km this is prob the UNSC's answer 2 the Supercarrier which is most likely Over 10km and if the Battle cruiser is 19km then the Supercarrier is most likely closer 2 20 km but prob mor or less 12-15 km

The UNSC destroyed 1 and thats questionable at best.. The largest ship encountered by the covenant were Assault Characters. Reach was the first time they saw a ship over 3000m. The first they saw were prob at Unyielding Hierophant. I believe Supercarriers were likely used in the Covenants Defensive fleets. Like patrolling the outer sectors and defending High Charity.

Picture
It would be nice if someone could "dig up" a picture for this starship. I personally haven't found any so far. Is Fleet Carrier canon? It should remain supercarrier unless it is specifically called fleet carrier by someone in the books or games.

Super Carrier = Assault Carrier
The Assault Carriers are massive, and they seem to be the Prophet's ship of choice, could it be that they got the names mixed up, which is common between the novels and the games. I believe it was mentioned somewhere that the Assault Carriers were called Super Carriers in some of the game commentary. They are also often used as flagships and in Halo 3 we see the addition of another hangar bay in the back. So just a theory, but I think they could be the same thing since Bungie has not produced a full ship list themselves, and the only time the Super Carries have been mentioned in GoO, and Assault Carriers have never been mentioned in the novels. ProphetofTruth 18:37, 18 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Please refer Here.- K A C 18:46, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

supercarrier in halo 2
could somone get me a pic of this alleged carrier I have a program that will let me zoom in on it


 * It was mentioned in the novels, not in the trilogy.-  5 əb'7 aŋk (7alk ) 07:39, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

FINALLY a PICTURE
After receiving Halo Wars, I was amazed to see pictures of a few new warship classifications in the included graphic novel Genesis. Something that had been bothering me was the classification of the behemoth ship that attacked the Vostok, Arabia, and Hercules at the Third(?) Battle of Harvest. I hoped to be able to classify it and put the scan up as soon as possible but there was no name given to it. I figured that due to its immense size it would have to be one of the bigger ships, possibly a Reverence-class cruiser or supercarrier. FORTUNATELY, though the name is missing from the small story, what IS present is the ship's size. On a few frames were tactical screens of the battle taking place and on those screens were the absolute sizes of ships involved, one of which, was the ship in question. Using some nifty Loftus-esque calculations and with the size of nearby Marathon cruisers well known, I was able to determine that the ship's length was around 5703.4 meters. A length that could only classify it as one ship. A ship that matches the description anyways. Of course I'm talking about a Supercarrier. As such, I believe it is justifiable to add a picture and information to the article. Please contact me before deleting however, as I'd like to defend it if given the chance. Nerfherder1428 19:03, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

PICTURE: .

I think it should be mentioned in the trivia section that there may be a supercarrier in Halo Wars: Genesis. I, for one, agree that it probably is such a vessel. Nonetheless, don't do this without getting a few more opinions and consulting an admin. --&quot;A government strong enough to give you everything you want...is strong enough to take everything you have.&quot; -Thomas Jefferson 23:39, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I wasn't sure exactly how to approach it. As much as I hate to admit it, I'm still new to the process. Thanks for the advice at any rate. The other vessels on the tac screen that I used to make my calculations were all in scale with each other and I believe it was right to assume the Covenant vessel in question would be to scale as well. Therefore, the question probably isn't whether or not the length is correct, but more like whether there is any yet-to-be-mentioned Covenant ship bigger than the Assault Carrier. As only the Supercarrier is currently known to be longer than that size, I thought it was fitting to add the pics and info. Obviously, I understand that this is a gray area that needs to be visited by some admins before a decision is made, and by no means am I going to fight this thing to the ends of the earth. I just hoped to give life to a stub of an article. I'm wondering if maybe an article should be created for the unnamed ship instead? Likewise, what should be done with the 8 unknown ships (4 Covenant, 4 UNSC) also seen in the graphic novel? I have them on my computer and had hoped to use the same method to discover their sizes as well. I'd like to see how this article works out first though before I start getting a reputation for rampant speculation. :D --Nerfherder1428 22:50, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

I think that's an actual pic of a SuperCarrier, but in the article it claims the Supercarrier is 5,354 m, and who would put such an exact number without a sufficient source? However, seeing as Supercarrier is the largest Covenant ship classification, I don't see what else the above picture could be. -Joseph-G111 01:41, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

different size
Halo Evolutions stated a different size. 3 km if I rember correct. (mentioned in Coles story) Check it and if it is true change it please.

Yep. Halo Evolutions: The Impossible Life and Possible Death of Preston J. Cole, page 463:

"Two kilometers long, one wide," Cole said. "Energy readings off scale."

http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Covenant_Battleship Sounds more like its a Covenant Battleship (2 km), and the artist decided to take a little freedom with scale. Someone care to sort this out?

fits the battleship description, a dozen energy projectors means it could cut through 13 ships without having to fire plasma torpedos, also it has the 5 bulb sections, front, sides, behind the prow, then middle and then the back. ProphetofTruth 22:42, January 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * This is true; I believe we'll soon have to shift the pictures somewhere else. Can we agree on the Covenant Battleship designation then?--Nerfherder1428 13:09, January 5, 2010 (UTC)


 * Just read the page and I agree.-  5 əb'7 aŋk (7alk ) 13:21, January 5, 2010 (UTC)

Merge to Assault Carrier
In Halo: Reach, a ship that's clearly a Covenant Assault Carrier is consistenly called a Supercarrier.Mutoid Chief 21:20, September 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * I second that, even if that ship was beastly huge compared to past incarnations.--For the Swarm! 23:46, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

It may look the same, but the size difference means it isn't an assault carrier. Some patrol boats look like destroyers these days, that doesn't make them the same. DarkbelowHGR  CommbandD  03:47, September 15, 2010 (UTC)'


 * Is there that big of a size difference? Looks the same size as the old Assault Carrier to me. Beyond that, the only difference between the Supercarrier and the Assault Carrier in the Halo Encyclopedia is about 6 meters. That seems insignificant enough for them be both classified as the same ship, with Assault Carrier or Super Carrier being used to describe their role. Ex: Shadow of Intent and Regret's ships were leading full assaults, and the Super Carrier in Reach was a preliminary attack ship that was carrying a large number of forces under the radar (or as under the radar as you can get using a Super-carrier)to attack Reach's surface to soften it up for the main force, but it wasn't leading an assault fleet.

If the only notable differences are that minor, then really, these should both fall under Assault Carrier. The Supercarrier apparently is merely built on a slightly larger chassis, but otherwise is visually the same and functionally the same. Really not enough to justify a separate article if this is in fact the case.Fire Eater 03:25, September 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * I suggest we put this to a vote. VARGR 21:06, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

I would oppose such merge. Multiple sources agreed that supercarrier and the assault carrier are two different ships. Although they may look similar in appearances, their role is different.-  5 əb<font color="#FF4F00">'7 aŋk (<font color="#FF4F00">7alk ) 21:16, September 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * There's also the possibility that "supercarrier" is also used to refer to any large carrier, like how "carrier" is used to refer to any class in general.--  Fore  run  ner  21:22, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

One thing I should mention was while, I was playing was that the super carrier seems to have more of a reddish tint to it than the assault carriers. May have just been lighting, but I felt I should mention it.--For the Swarm! 21:30, September 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * I disagree this thing looks massive in size when the corvette passed under it
 * much bigger than the Forward unto Dawn looked when it passed by the shadow of intent.
 * Forgot to sign the above comment but i also should mention that we don't even know if a assault carrier can cloak like this supercarrier can
 * until we find out if they can i think this should be a separate page.Admiralmorris 21:30, September 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm opposing as well, mostly for the reasons Subtank and Forerunner brought up, while appearing similar, essentially they are different. Colonel Grade One.png Col.  Snipes  4  50 Colonel Grade One.png 22:31, September 18, 2010 (UTC)

I'll leave it to this assessment.

Arguments for:
 * It looks just like an Assault Carrier.
 * Much of the literature made it sound like an Assault Carrier.
 * It serves much of the same kind of purpose in battle.

Arguments against:
 * The name's different.
 * It's 6 meters bigger.
 * Assault Carriers may or may not have cloaking.

This is sounding a whole lot like the previous argument about whether the Halo Wars Mark IV was really the canonical default armor, or just artistic license. Something like cloaking is easy to reconcile, we simply never saw them use it. The name is not a hard leap, that is after all a UNSC designation, which could have changed easily later, after they got more familiar with that particular ship's usage. One half of a compound word is hardly a barrier, and seeing as the two look exactly the same, the burden of proof rests on the extraodinary claim in these cases, which is proving that it's different when it looks, acts, and does exactly the same as the two. If there's sources arguing against this, then yes, they are different. Otherwise, the unfounded claim is in their differences, not their similarity. Tuckerscreator (<font color="#008000">stalk ) 23:49, September 18, 2010 (UTC)

I think they might do two different things like an assault carrier as it would sound gets right into the action leading the charge in battle

while a supercarrier could drop of hundreds of seraphs and dropships to the surface and might be less of a non-combat ship save for a couple turrets and their escorts01:41, September 19, 2010 (UTC)Admiralmorris

I agree. They are technically the same.

Calipari 17:17, September 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * I oppose the suggestion; if it were an assault carrier, they would refer to it as such. For instance, Buck referred to an assault carrier as an "assault carrier" in ODST, so it is clear that the UNSC understand that there is a difference. Therefore, although of similar appearance, the two are not the same. - Black Mesa.jpg Halo-343   ( Talk )   ( Contribs )   ( Edits )  17:22, September 19, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose. Assault carriers are called assault carriers. Supercarriers are called supercarriers. If these merge we might as well merge Halcyon and Marathon class cruisers. Definite oppose. Z 17:24, September 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * With Buck it was a later time period, and like I said, the designation may have changed after humanity got more familiar with its use. And as for the Halcyon and Marathons, we KNOW those are two different ships, having different classfications, and one being an upgrade and all. The burden of proving that they are different and the name is almost a nickname anyway! Names are never definate, unless they are a classification, and here "Supercarrier" is consistently used in the manner of a nickname, as the official designation (e.i. Type-?? or whatever they use for it) had never been stated instead. What's needed is a passage, perhaps from one of the books or something, where the two are seen simultaneously, or at least both mentioned and referred to by different names. If that's so then they are seperate. If not, it could easily be a name change. Tuckerscreator (<font color="#008000">stalk ) 17:36, September 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * Emphasis on "could be a name change". I definitely oppose the proposal; It looks like an Assault carrier, sure, but its weapon systems, shielding, complement, etc. could be considerably different. Until we have direct proof saying they're the same, they should stay separate. --<font color="MidnightBlue">Jugus (<font color="Gray">Talk  | <font color="Gray">Contribs ) 17:45, September 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well since we have a ship that looks the exact same as an already known type of vessel, you need to do the proving. So far we know, the Assault Carrier and the "super carrier" are similar in size, at least one of their weapon systems shares a similar mounting. That's visual proof right there. If you want us to believe they are different and the merge should not be done you need to prove it.--For the Swarm! 23:12, September 19, 2010 (UTC)

Well, if you put that way... Sure then, let's keep it, though I doubt people are going to stop asking for it in the coming future. Tuckerscreator (<font color="#008000">stalk ) 17:50, September 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * A "later time period"? The supercarrier is seen and identified as such in Tip of the Spear and Long Night of Solace, which take place on August 12th and August 13th, respectively. Assault carriers are identified as assault carriers in the levels Cairo Station and Coastal Highway, which take place on October 20th and October 21st, respectively. I sincerely doubt that the UNSC would reclassify the supercarrier as the assault carrier over the course of three months. --&quot;Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have.&quot; -Thomas Jefferson 17:51, September 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * Um, yeah, because the UNSC reorganizing the names of the ship types of the enemy fleet so they aren't stuck with simple nicknames when naval officers look for information of a certain ship is so unreasonable. Seriously? It can easily be a retcon. Hell, Halsey knew of the Forerunner long before anyone else. the UNSC renaming a ship to a moniker that describes it's role in the enemy fleet better than simply slapping Super in front of carrier to describe an entire class of ships.--For the Swarm! 23:12, September 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, since this apparently won't die. How about this, we know that in most cases the UNSC follows conventions set by the US military in the present day. And in current Naval terminology, Assault Carriers and Supercarriers are vastly different ships, one referring to a Marine carrier used to get right up to the front lines and the other referring to massive Navy carriers with a shitload of planes. Z 00:49, September 20, 2010 (UTC)

Maybe, with the US Navy, but here the two don't seem to be "vastly different." They're practically the same size, the same shape, the same weapons, the same crew, the same role, etc. Like I said, the burden of proof lies in the extraordinary claim, and here it is the claim that they are different, when they act virtually exactly the same. Tuckerscreator (<font color="#008000">stalk ) 02:25, September 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * Exactly. All we have is a term that in today's naval terminology is an unofficial descriptor for those ships.--For the Swarm! 02:31, September 20, 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the term "Assault Carrier" (seeing as it's more descriptive than "supercarrier") was only used later in the war, when the UNSC had more familiarity with the ship class and knew what the Covenant referred to it as. NOBLE team may have just called it a supercarrier because they just knew it was a carrier, and it was... well, super-sized. SPARTAN-347 00:24, September 24, 2010 (UTC)


 * Uhh you do realize the difference between Reach and Halo 3 is a few months right? Very little time has passed between Noble saying Supercarrier and Assault Carriers appearing in Halo 2/3. Besides, look in the Halo Encyclopedia. Both are listed. Separately. Win. Z 01:17, September 24, 2010 (UTC)

Halo Encyclopedia is questionable. It lists there to be 2 Battles of Earth, but ODST has since revealed to be one long battle, despite ODST being released earlier. Also, observe that 3 months was enough time for the Covenant to make a phase station for themselves to make the switch from Spirit dropships to Phantoms. Likewise, it's also plenty of time for the UNSC to change the nickname. The exxtra-ordinary claim without proof is proving that they are different, we have concrete proof of its appearance, prove how despite it they could be different. Tuckerscreator (<font color="#008000">stalk ) 01:24, September 24, 2010 (UTC)


 * The name "Supercarrier" is used in the books as well, and in a context where it's clearly not a human nickname. That, and I think the supercarrier seems to be a lot larger than an assault carrier; just look at how small the corvette looks next to it. And the corvette itself is nearly twice the length of a UNSC frigate. To me, the Forward Unto Dawn in the opening cinematic of The Ark looks bigger than the Ardent Prayer when next to the carrier, which would mean the supercarrier is a lot larger. --<font color="MidnightBlue">Jugus  (<font color="Gray">Talk  | <font color="Gray">Contribs ) 07:12, September 24, 2010 (UTC)

differences between supercarrier us and assault carrier use
Id suggest that differences in usages between this and the assault carrier be added. ie assault carriers being used in frontlines and getting very close to ground combat whilst still being a carrier, whereas the super carrier appears to stay away from direct combat and is used as a tanker for refueling smaller ships. Basing all my evidence on the games just here mind. VARGR 18:13, September 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * Wait, it was being used as an invasion platform, how is that not frontline work? Also blasting the Grafton wasn't direct combat? You're gonna need more solid evidence than that to justify them being separate machines.--For the Swarm! 22:57, September 19, 2010 (UTC)

it only attacked the grafton when it was decovered and later withdrew from the surface. I'm not trying to write 100%here. Thats why this is on the talk page. Just saying that if it going to be considered a separate ship to the assault carrier any spotted differences between them should be pointed out. VARGR 23:06, September 19, 2010 (UTC)

about cloak...
wasn't it cloaked by the spire? the article says othwerwise


 * Pretty sure it was according to the dialogue in the game. --For the Swarm! 19:09, September 20, 2010 (UTC)

That's wasn't only 5 Kilometers...
Is it just me, or does it appear far larger than a normal Assault Carrier in Reach? I mean, seriously, it's frontal area went as far as the eye could see, and we were only underneath the middle area! Missing Mandible 02:46, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

I agree, Corvettes are like 800m long and it looked less than 1/6 of the Carrier.--Councilor &#39;Rumilee 01:46, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

Comparison
Yes I know my "copy and paste" jobs are really bad but here is a side by side comparison. To me it looks like the front of the "Super carrier" is more bulbous and the open gap of space twoards the front is wider. Also the body of the Assualt carrier is longer compared to the stub of a body that the super carier seems to have. Remember the Grafton!!! 03:53, September 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * That's hardly a difference. Assault Carriers in Halo 2 have a smaller hangar than Assault Carriers from Halo 3, as well as more uncovered sections, and yet they're both considered to be Assault Carriers. Tuckerscreator (<font color="#008000">stalk ) 06:02, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

Appearance
According to the image to the above (In another section), the Supercarrier in Halo: Reach looks nothing like the Supercarrier in this image and Halo Wars: Genesis. In fact, the one in Halo: Reach is an almost striking resemblence to the Assault Carrier. I do find it likely it may be an oversight by Bungie but its possibly that there are types. Have a good day.

<span style="background-color:White; color:Blue; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px"> SPARTAN-A110  <span style="background-color:silver; color:white; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px">  talk    contribs  <span style="background-color:silver; color:white; -moz-border-radius-bottomright:10px; -moz-border-radius-topright:10px">  guestbook   05:57, September 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't recall there being a Supercarrier in Halo Wars Genesis. I remember there being a Battleship.--For the Swarm! 13:44, September 22, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, and I do think even if it were a supercarrier in genesis, Bungie Supercarrier trumps genesis supercarrier... DarkbelowHGR  CommbandD  14:17, September 23, 2010 (UTC)