Forum:Subtracting Canon - Brian Reed, Catalog, etc.

Despite my absence I've been keeping track of things from behind the scenes and lately I've been noticing some outrageous-ness, inconsistencies, and just blatant insults. We've already had problems with past media that screwed up canon in their own special ways (Kilo-five series, Initiation, etc.). Now we have new editions that are helping to get things back on track from that era but are doing a bit too much. Now this isn't to say the Escalation series is bad, let-alone catalog should be silenced. Not at all. I like the Escalation comic series and have been purchasing every issue that has been released thus far. As for catalog, I haven't been paying to much attention to "him" nor do I even care to. But here's the problem. It seems as though recently the things 343I added to the Halo universe are a bit of a subtraction to the universe despite their intent.

"I wish people would stop asking for status updates! :("

- Nighthammer

...before anymore damage is done. This "Catalog" guy...I can understand that there are some mysterious that people would like to see get solved. I understand that people have so many questions. Hell, even I like to find out what happened to so and so. Great! But here's the problem, and it goes back to the old saying - Leave well enough alone. Why? Well with some of the things that Catalog has been revealing, it has been a major subtraction. For example - apparently someone asked about the whereabouts of team saber. Out of nowhere, catalog reveals that they were "killed in action" in Sept 2553. What?! Just kill them off?? Just another example of 343I doing whatever/however they like to previously established canon. Instead of just saying they were reassigned so that maybe they have a potential future story ark that may lead to their deaths, they are just killed off w/o an explanation for the sack of it. 343I needs to take better care of the Haloverse than what they are doing now. They have improved with this at first but now they seem to be going backwards. Which brings me to my next point.

"The f*@k is this?"

- Halo Canon 

Let's start with the recently released issue 8 of Escalation. Don't get me wrong. The comic is alright. We finally get to see John-117 reunited with blue team. We get to explore Installation 03 a lil. We get to see that the Didact did indeed survive. However, the comic was a bit of a subtraction. First off, Brian Reed started off okay with issue 7 and demonstrated that he has some writing potential. But then he (or 343I for that matter) took a step backwards. The reuniting of blue team was hardly moving - and no explanation for why their armor is just as modified as John's. And then he kills off team black. First off, Team black's names, call-signs, and whereabouts were revealed by catalog a lil while back. That was great to hear. But now we jump into their off screen, unnecessary deaths. Why bring them back only to kill them off?? How was it so easy for blue team to dispatch the prometheans yet black team couldn't? It would've been better for them to have met up with blue team. Than maybe we could have gotten an explanation as to how they got off line installation 1-4! Oh, I guess 343I can careless about that! Makes no sense to me. And then blue team walks into the composer's abyss. Some of you already know how I feel about these science-fantasy elements that I cannot stand in the halo series (because they feel out of place). Overall I wasn't entirely satisfied w/ this issue. In fact this is a sign that things are about to get worst the next go around.

Overall 343I needs to step their game up. They need to place more emphasis on canon and show that they know what they are doing rather than coming across as amateurish. Come up with explanations for things, stop killing off characters for the heck of it, stop with the inconsistencies, and start proofreading everything before its shipped out the door. Granted, I like the progress they are making with some of the new media they're getting ready to release. I like the remastered cut-scenes for Halo 2, Nightfall is looking good, and I'm considering purchasing the MC collection (if I decide to purchase the Xbox One). Still, 343I needs to pay attention to the small things in Halo and manage them better. That's all I ask.

Be minded this is just my opinion and a bit of a rant so don't take it personal if you disagree with anything I have to say.-- Killamin7  [Comm |Files ] 06:21, 26 July 2014 (EDT)

Comments
Any comments, rebuttals? Feel free to post them here.-- Killamin7  [Comm |Files ] 06:21, 26 July 2014 (EDT)


 * I'm inclined to agree, for the most part. For years now fans have been asking for an update on Saber and Gamma Company in general and this is what we get? It feels like an insult. Same with Black, though I'd reckon they were never anyone's favorite - the dysfunctional Spartan team whose mission gets compromised over a teenage romance. However, they were still somewhat fleshed out characters with their own short story and comic series, and killing them off in such a offhanded manner was uncalled for. Just a while ago Bonnie Ross said this:


 * "We ... had a tendency to kill all of our characters besides Master Chief. We are not Game of Thrones, and we actually want to make sure going forward we have a larger cast of characters with which to tell stories."


 * Now, though? 343's gaining up on GRRM in just a few days. Looks like their "larger cast of characters" is just those they've come up with over the past couple of years.--Jugus (Talk  | Contribs ) 07:24, 26 July 2014 (EDT)


 * I have to agree as well. The Catalog can give out some great information, like Rentus or where "average" Kig-Yar are from. However, just mentioning that major novel characters were killed off-screen, like Saber and Byrne, is getting to be a bit much. The Catalog shouldn't answer questions relating to character statuses if you ask me. And Team Black getting suddenly killed off really annoyed me. At least use nameless Spartan-IVs, rather than established Spartan-IIs which are rare as it is. At least Game of Thrones generally kills off its major-recurring characters "on-screen". - NightHammer (talk) 09:10, 26 July 2014 (EDT)


 * Exactly. That's the least they can do, just showing them fighting whoever/whatever and getting killed on-screen. Just explain their deaths. It's silly how they killed off black team so quickly after revealing more about them. They even went as far as decapitating one of the members! When I saw that, I'm was just like, really? They must not like black team. They could have did different, use some Spartan-IV's (since 343I likes to kill them off too) and leave it at that. As for Bonnie Ross, Frank O Connor, etc., they always seem to contradict themselves in some way. Usually what they say goes in one ear and out the other with me. Basically I put it like this - they just telling us what we want to hear but their actions speak differently. Bonnie can say she/they want a larger cast of characters but surely that's not the case if you swatting them like flies. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if they kill off Red Team from the SoF. But they won't kill off Sarah Palmer though... -- Killamin7  [Comm |Files ] 11:11, 26 July 2014 (EDT)
 * I'm just now finding out some of this stuff. I was gone for a bit and I had no idea until your post that some of these characters had been killed. But what really irked me was killing Black Team. They basically re-introduced them to be killed, turning them into nothing more than redshirt characters. So pointless...-- 11:18, 26 July 2014 (EDT)


 * It surprisingly doesn't bother me. Maybe I'm being a little biased since I never really grew attached to Team Black or any SPARTAN-IIIs for that matter. Sith-venator Wavingstrider Fett helmet.jpg ( Commlink ) 12:34, 26 July 2014 (EDT)


 * I'm tired of them killing off Spartans, full-stop. I understand the rationale - build up how great X is, introduce Y who is able to kill X to increase their threat. But what it actually does is reduce the profile of X instead, and that is something I don't like for the S-IIs. I feel like 343i realised they had an unruly amount of living Spartan-IIs for the Master Chief to be "one of the last", and by killing them or sending them into space that increases the profile for the Chief, which was the same rationale for originally making him the last. I could tolerate them being S-IIIs - heck, even Saber, who I actually grew attached to. I was hoping Tom and Lucy could lead their little trio to be capable Spartans in the post-war era. So much for that. And especially the S-IVs, who have shown potential but little proficiency. But the IIs...every one of them is supposed to be the stuff of myth and legend. When one goes down, it has to be like Sam or Will - taking a disproportionate number with them. Or James and Beta Red - leaving ambiguity. You know they're dead, but the potential for hope remains.
 * I don't mind Catalog confirming things like concepts or places, but some of the things that it is confirming really should be told as stories. If you're going to kill of Byrne, make it a story - show, don't tell. If you're killing Saber, show us how it happened, don't just say it did. They feel like wasted opportunities to me.--  Qura 'Morhek   The Autocrat     of Morheka   21:02, 26 July 2014 (EDT)


 * And that's what I mean by subtrating canon - wasting opporturnites thus reducing the expansion of canon. I was hoping to see what some of these SIII's look like such as Olivia, but nooooo. Instead they are knocked off the list and never heard from ever again. Not a good look for 343I. Perhaps they may explain their deaths later on down the line but I highly doubt it considering how "simple" it was for 343I to write them off. Let's just hope we don't get anymore upsetting news that may further screw up canon.-- Killamin7  [Comm |Files ] 09:01, 28 July 2014 (EDT)

I agree with some of what's said, but consider that it may be that for reasons unknown to us, they may not want to revisit certain characters or events. We ask what the circumstances are, they tell us, and we get mixed feelings over it. But to say something is 'subtracting from canon'? Canon, as far as I use the term, is what is official according to the property owner. Not what's comfortable or expected by me. Do I like Spartan team Black gone? Those other S-IIIs? Not really, but they are gone. That's canon now. In real life, we'd often like to visit a place or see people but sudden circumstances can render a place or a person gone without warning and in violation of our wishes. Just because something has a 'potential' future use, doesn't mean it needs to see use. -ScaleMaster117 (talk) 10:24, 28 July 2014 (EDT)


 * Those are my thoughts exactly. I try not to look at fiction from an objective, deconstructive standpoint, (ironic because my career is in editing and technical writing) but I occasionally put on my Doylist hat. While I certainly believe it tends to be more effective to kill important characters "on-screen", sometimes doing so just won't work within the context of a given story. Fans wanted to know what happened to Byrne and Team Saber; 343i obviously had no plans for the characters going forward so they had them all die in combat. That may not be as compelling as depicting their deaths in a narrative work but it's better than Catalog saying, "Information regarding [subject] is stored stored in inaccessible [frumentarii] cores," providing us with no closure whatsoever.


 * A lot of people have asked, "Why couldn't 343i/Brian Reed have killed some nameless SPARTAN-IVs?" Frankly, that question answers itself. The deaths of some S-IV redshirts would have no real emotional impact for the fans or for the Chief. Spartan Black was the most reasonable choice for two reasons: A) they're SPARTAN-IIs so their deaths truly matter in- and out-of-universe; and B) while they're pretty well-liked they're nobody's favorite S-IIs. Going back to my first point, I would certainly like to see Team Black's end fleshed out, whether through helmet-cam footage in Issue #9 or even a new short story. Nonetheless, I'm willing to accept their demise because it works from an in-universe perspective. What 343 Industries decide to do with the story is what counts, regardless of what direction I would prefer them to take with it. -- Our vengeance is at hand. Gravemind.svg ( Talk to me. ) 11:55, 28 July 2014 (EDT)