Talk:Energy projector

Size?
I would like to ask about something and please forgive me if the facts i am disputing ARE correct or substantiated: I would like to point out that there are references to freds comment in halo first strike (According to Fred, only the "big ships have them'') but surely this couldnt be the energy projector talked about on the page as when i re-read the book (my freinds copy) it made a hole wide enough for a covie grav lift to fit into whereas the energy projector on the page is said to be a needle thin beam...??? Aswell as the above i would like to add my opinion-I beleive that the energy projector is completely different to the mystery sniper ships weapon in halo the fall of reach (as it is needle thin) also i would like to say that i do not think that there has been any refference to is effectivness as to taking down the sheilds of a Covenant frigate or a Covenant destroyer with a single hit which is also stated on the page...hope this helps and if it dosent...well ill just assume it helps a little until im told otherwise. thanks for reading.
 * I strongly fail to concur. I will reread the "needle-thin" part, so let's reserve judgement. The part of taking down the shields of a Covie frig or destroyer comes from Halo: Ghosts of Onyx. I'm putting that part back up.

Don't the covenant flagships have them too? Also, perhaps in space view cortana saw them in needle thin. If they were shot on groundwise it would appear much larger. Keep in mind that the book did say that the energy projector that was fired blasted the roof of the structure and that it melted the roof around the whole from sheer heat making it appear much larger than it actually wasHalo3 00:18, 13 June 2007 (UTC)--Halo3

Its pretty simple: the beam itselfe is thin but has a wide effect area because the energy spreads out after impact with the target.Maiar 11:39, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

It is probably like lightning. When an electon "jumps" between a cloud and the ground it supperheats the air, making a white flash. AJ Werefang  18:10, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Picture!
Picture in the article doesn't show energy projector. Why? Because ships using beam weapon in pic are CCS cruisers... which don't have energy projectors. And glassing is done by plasma bombardment. Maybe the beam in the pic is plasma, 'coz it's possible that the Covenant has invented same kinda (but not as efficient?) plasma manipulation like Cortana in Halo:FS -Guest

All Covenant weapons are plasma based ProphetofTruth 14:35, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

CCS Battle-cruisers(note the BATTLE bit, its actualy a diferent class of ship than just cruiser) do have at least one energy projector. and energy projectors are the most efficient glassing weapon the covenant have because its effenct area is massive and it can do a sweeping shot due to its beam nature.

Assault Carrier Weapon?
Hello, I think that the weapon the assault carrier in Halo 2 is using against the Marathon-Cruiser is an Energy projector, because it's destroying the ship with just a single hit. Also its in the middle section of the ship, directly over the reactors. I think this would be the best place for such a powerful weapon. It can't be a plasma torpedo because this wouldn't look like a beam. And pulse laser aren't so big. (Sorry for my english) Sgt Perez 14:57, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Until a Bungie guy in recon armour and with a flaming head comes up to me and says it, it isn't true. This isn't the place for speculation, unless you want to put that in its own special "Theories" column or something. --TerminalFailure 03:35, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
 * When you think about it, what else could it be? considering the effect and appearence.Maiar 11:43, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I think this theory is plausible. The description of the weapon from Fall of Reach fits the one in that scene perfectly. It's a fast, blue beam that penetrates a UNSC ship with a single hit. Plus, it's on the top side of the Assault Carrier.--Jugus 20:17, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

The Projector
I think that all these weapons are probably energy projectors although in different forms, as it makes sense the Covenant could have more then one type. Not only that, but it is possible they can widen or thin the beam down for various purposes. As for the smaller ships using an energy projector, like I said before, it could simply be of a different type then the one used by the sniping ship. It would certainly be smaller though. As for firing in different directions, rerouting the beam I would assume couldnt be that difficult for the Covenant. Does this seem like the most plausible explanation? Tarius

Well the UNSC has different sizes of MAC for different ships so i suppose this is possible.

Covenant Plasma Weaponry
Good Day, upon this issue I place this, my own opinion. Aside from the Brutes, the Covenant weapon systems rely mostly upon the use of plasma, that is; super heated, ionized gas (Traditionally that of hydrogen particles). The nature of plasma is that as its particles are super charged and literarily spewing energy, most of which is extremely high levels of heat, the particles vibrate violently, giving it its liquid-like appearance. As it is a substance between solid and liquid, this makes it a significantly difficult substance to manipulate, even with technology accorded to the Covenant. The so called "Energy Projector" therefore is a misplaced name, as plasma is in fact matter, not energy. Therefore, the only weapons that fall under the label of energy projector, must be any form of Covenant Weapon that emits a beam, or bolt of energy, such as the Beam seen in the level "Cairo" of the Halo 2 Campaign when a Maranthon-Class Cruiser get hit by it and disrupted. The Energy Projector shown and commonly known is more accurately described as a Plasma Projector, and instead of being a focused beam of energy, is in fact more of a forced spray of plasma. Most likely using the same magnets utilized in a Plasma Rifle, the seen Plasma Projector, such as with the CCS-Battlecruiser, builds up ionized gas at the point of the weapon, where it will rapidly heat. Using the magnets provided with the weapon, the plasma is shot forward with tremendous velocity, sending it at first in a concentrated beam, though afterwards it tends to cone outwards, as seen at the end of the level "Floodgate" in the Halo 3 campaign, when the Fleet of Retribution's CCS-Battlecruisers are seen Glassing the City of Voi. (This method of the weapon being used is merely speculation based on observation, and is described to press the point of my argument that the so called "Energy Projector", is either affiliated with the wrong category of Covenant vessel weapon, or is in fact a misplaced name) Unfortunately, because the weapon is only named in the novels, it is difficult which weapon is specifically designated by this name, so I leave it to the mind of Bungie and the authors of the novels to decide what exactly is an Energy Projector of the mighty Covenant Warships. Anglomachian


 * Regarding the definition of plasma, you are talking complete boulderdash. A plasma is a substance with all the gas properties in addition to new ones. Additional properties include, any degree of ionisation present (from very little to total); a thermal range extending below 0 degress celcius. It is a phase beyond gas, not between liquid and solid. It gives off electromagnetic radiation similiar to a finger print of its chemical composition due to recomibination of charges within the plasma. Because plasma is electromagnetic, it can be controled be electric and magnetic interaction. The larger the potential difference within the plasma the more responsive it will be to external electric or magnetic fields. Note, although plasma has a voltage within it, no current flows, it is merely a excellent electrical conductor. Examples of plasma include: candle flame, turbine jet, solar corona, fire, tokomak fusion, Aruora.Plasmic Physics 11:27, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

How interesting   -    -            -         -        -             -             -                 /\/\/\/\/\

Energy Projector in the Human Starships
The UNSC to owe to have this type of weapon included in your heavy arsenal. I say, estan in the XXVIth century. The technology of it this must at the time have developed this type of weapon as the " Hammer of Dawn " in Gears of War.--H A L O Legend 20:26, 15 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Doesn't make any sense... could you rephrase that?-  5 əb'7 aŋk (7alk ) 20:42, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

I think he's trying to say the Gears of War Hammer of Dawn is an Energy Projector, and proves its part of Halo canon(?) -- ' Administrator  Specops306  -  Qur'a 'Morhek ''  Honour Light Your Way! ''' 21:13, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Energy projector vs. super MAC platform
I would just like to toss an idea out, and I figured this would be the most relevant page to post it on. Specifically, in the Battle of Reach (this argument also applies to the First Battle of Earth), the massive Covenant supercruiser used its projectors to obliterate human vessels at extreme range. Why, then, did it not use this tactic against the MAC platforms? Range in space combat will ultimately be determined by two things, because there is no drag in space. The first key is the firing ship's muzzle velocity, the second being the maneuverability of the target. Now, even if you believe the completely impossible (see MAC talk page) 50% speed of light muzzle speed for the super MAC, the supercruiser (or any energy projector equipped ship) still has twice that muzzle velocity. So the covenant ship wins that half of the range argument. Secondly, MAC platforms are STATIONARY (or at least move in a completely predictable orbit), whereas the supercruiser can maneuver as needed. Together, these two things should make it blindingly obvious that any covenant fleet with even one ship equipped with an energy projector should be able to effortlessly obliterate MAC platforms. On top of this, ship mounted MACs are even more limited in muzzle velocity, and human ships have their usual inferior systems, which would imply drive systems as well. Thus, a covenant fleet should be able to outrange any human vessel so horribly that the battle would be over before the human vessels even got within range. If anyone has any commentary on my arguments here, please post it. If anyone wonders, this response comes from a piece of trivia that used to be on this page stating it was unknown why the assault carriers did not destroy the MAC platforms in this manner in the First Battle of Earth. Quakeomaniac 23:21, January 25, 2010 (UTC)

I believe that the reason is that the ship has to reroute all power to the Energy Projector which would leave it a siting duck for a minute or two if I recall correctly, which would give the MAC stations the chance to destroy it (In GoO, a large Covenant cruiser of the AJ type had to reroute all of its power to the Energy Projector which left it powerless). Also, this is Sci-fi, if you want to go against the MSAC canon speed then here is an example from ST that makes no sense: In a TOS ep. has Spock state that HALF AN OUNCE of anti-matter would blow half the atmosphere off an Earth-like planet...and it did. So if you are going to try and counter how silly things are in Halo saying "but its impossible!" Will no cut it.

Ok to begin with, why in the world would a ship be designed such that it has to use ALL of its power just to fire one weapon? Also, go re-read the encounter between the Incorruptible and the brute frigates. You clearly missed something. Namely, it is stated that a normal energy projector shot is not sufficient to destroy a covenant ship. The Incorruptible diverted all of its power to the weapon, yes, but it was an enormously overpowered shot so that it could destroy the frigate in one hit. This is not a normal circumstance, but an act of desperation. Also, the Reverence-class ships appear to be somewhat underpowered for their size. The ship depicted in Genesis and Legends (which has been classified as a battleship based on its abilities and size) was capable of firing several projectors at once, as was the FoR supercruiser. As for Star Trek getting a number incorrect, two things to say. First, it was probably an exaggeration about the dangers of antimatter. Second, the show was made in the 60's! Come on now, give them a break. Antimatter was not as well understood at that time. I, personally, will go with the exaggeration concept. P.S sign your posts. Quakeomaniac 17:57, January 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * The ship in Legends to which you are referring was a CCS-class Battlecruiser, firing pulse laser turrets, not energy projectors. - Black Mesa.jpg Halo-343   ( Talk )   ( Contribs )   ( Edits )  19:06, January 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * Oops that's my mistake you're right. What I meant to refer to was Evolutions. I was just trying to figure out what it was that retconned the ship size for the Battle of Harvest from what Genesis had shown. Quakeomaniac 19:19, January 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * Anyway, regardless of my error there, the point I was trying to make is that Covenant ships logically should overwhelm human ships even worse than they are acknowledged to in the Halo canon already. Their weapons aren't just powerful, but have drastically higher effective ranges. I wanted to know if anyone else agreed with this conclusion. Quakeomaniac 20:51, January 27, 2010 (UTC)

Halo Reach info
I'm wondering when will any information from Halo Reach be aplied to This page for example the article mentions the possibility of a Super Carrier haveing a Energy Projector when it is shown using it in a campain cutscene(end of Tip of the Spear).Dragrath1 20:31, September 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nothing new is revealed in Reach. We already know that supercarriers have access to energy projectors.-  5 əb'7 aŋk (7alk ) 20:34, September 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * I am aware I was simply stating that the article says that wether or not they have them is speculation so I was giving proof so it could be changed, also you have to admit Reach has a far higher luse of the eneregy projector than previous games ant those instances should be at least updatedDragrath1 22:15, September 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * It was quite colourful to see them in action. :P -  5 əb'7 aŋk (7alk ) 22:25, September 24, 2010 (UTC)

Color
So I was thinking, could the color of the beam be related to the class of ship? The more powerful the beam is, the higher on the visible spectrum it could be (ie, Assault Carrier Beams are blue or purple, the highest on the visible light spectrum). It mentions that the beams in Reach are red, when actually the beam that destroys the Frigate at the end of Tip of the Spear (fired by a Supercarrier!) is a sort of bright blue. Although the beam in Halo 2 fired by the Assault Carrier is pink, it could be purple, highest on the visible spectrum. And plus, CCS Battlecruisers besides some in Halo 3 (which we don't get such a good look at anyways) fire red beams. Red is lowest on the visible spectrum. This is just conjecture and has not been confirmed in any way, but I think it's a reasonable theory. -Joseph-G111 03:29, September 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * Perhaps. However, I don't think an energy projector beam's color is related to the vessel's size. I think it's more likely that the color changes with the intensity of the beam. As you mentioned, a red beam is the least intense, whereas a bluish purple one is more powerful, and a white hot one is the most powerful. Thus, the battlecruisers that glass New Alexandria were probably firing low-intensity beams, perhaps to keep from damaging themselves due to their proximity to the ground, while energy projectors are seen fired at or near full power in most other situations. For example, the destroyers in the Halo Wars intro fire high-intensity (whitish blue) beams from Harvest's low orbit; as they aren't close to the ground, they can unleash more energy safely. I guess the same theory could be applied to the plasma torpedo, as it has been alternately portrayed as red and blue. --&quot;Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have.&quot; -Thomas Jefferson 03:41, September 27, 2010 (UTC)

Piece of Trivia
Perhaps it should be added under the trivia tab that this weapon has the distinction of being the deadliest weapon in human history. After all, if this is the Covenant's weapon of choice for glassing a planet, then it follows that more humans have been killed by this particular weapon than any other. Ever.


 * The Halo Array is deadlier. And Cortana just unveiled a new power setting for the Covenant's plasma weapons that even their energy projectors were not capable of. Who knows what they could do with that. Tuckerscreator (stalk ) 12:15, 16 December 2010 (EST)

Weapon Discrepancy
After looking at the article in its current form, I have noticed a possible contradiction in the way it is written, both in content and to a degree, in citations. The description of the operation of the weapon, from its range to its appearance, and the coloration of tthe beam itself, is not consistent with the weapons mounted on the ventral surfaces of the destroyers, cruisers, and carriers that have been seen using them in the existing games.

For starters, the article's description, particularly in the operation section, describes the unique weapon that had been employed by that large ship that the Pillar Autumn destroyed during the final space engagement of the Fall of Reach. That weapon is completely different in operation, size, function, and form to the ventral beams mounted on most large Covenant warships. That weapon was not a built-in, ventrally-mounted weapon, but was a separate device externally mounted on the ship's hull, and was in the form of a massive, spherical device on a turret emplacement, enabling it to track opposing ships.

For the ventral cleansing beams to do that, by contrast, they would have to position and move themselves at upwards angles, or roll onto their sides, in order for their beams to be able to strike at opposing ships. The targets would have to be below or to the side of them, and the ship would have to positioned accordingly in order strike its target. Even in the case of beam fired from the top of the Solemn Penance's partner Assault Carrier at that Marathon-Class Cruiser, that weapon was still fired only when the total position and size of the firing ship was placed so that it could fire at an appropriate angle.

As for the ventral beams themselves, those weapons have been shown to have more stringent limitations then the long-range sniping weapon used at Reach. For the ventral beams, in terms of their range, have only been shown to have either a maximum range of low orbit, for the anterior-mounted ventral beam, to a very low altitude, perhaps a mile or so above a planet's surface, in the case of the beam mounted on the gravity lift base. It seems that for the anterior ventral beam, it can strike from any altitude in atmosphere to a maximum of that in low orbit, to only a mile or so for the lift-mounted beam.

Also, the beams shown, even with the different power settings, have only really been red, blue, partially violet, and very wide as well, not to mention being composed of plasma on top of that. Aside from the Inccoruptable's energy projector beam and those which penetrated the rock ceiling above the relic at CASTLE Base, none of the ventral beams have ever been cited or shown as being purely white or blue-white in coloration.

From all of these facts, it seems apparent that the ventral beams and the sniping weapon are entirely separate weapons, even if they are related to each other or in the same classification ranges of Covenant weapons, just as the M247 and AIE-468H are somewhat similar if distinct from one another. However, for the ventral beams and the sniping beams, the differences are too extreme for them to be exact same weapon.

Perhaps the most prudent form of action would be to split this into two separate articles, or at least rewrite the existing one in order to account for the clear differences between these two different weapons. --Exalted Obliteration 15:19, 26 September 2011 (EDT)


 * I completely agree. It is apparent that the "sniping weapon" is a different weapon altogether, or at least a very specialized variation of the technology. I always thought the description of the sniping weapon was closer to a particle beam than the magnetically guided plasma fired by an energy projector. Given the fact it's essentially a more direct application of the same tech as plasma torpedoes, I can't really see a normal energy projector beam traversing hundreds of thousand kilometers in an instant. If anything, the sniping weapon seems similar in function to the weapons used by the Forerunner warships in Origins. --Jugus (Talk  | <font color="Gray">Contribs ) 15:43, 26 September 2011 (EDT)


 * There does seem to be some distinction, but some of these are less segregated from each other than they seem.


 * For the ventral cleansing beams to do that, by contrast, they would have to position and move themselves at upwards angles, or roll onto their sides, in order for their beams to be able to strike at opposing ships. I had simply taken that as yet another sign of poor Covenant design, limiting the range of their most powerful weapon by placing it in their vulnerable location. Still, rolling to face the opposing ship shouldn't be a problem, since there's no up-and-down in space, so all they have to do is have the top of their ship face the vessel attacking them, so their shield takes the brunt of their attack, then quickly roll upside to slice their opponent once their weapon has finished charging. The Supercruiser variant means some Prophet might have got a new idea, and so changed the location and design of the weapon to be more "turret-like", but still "firing" the same material.


 * The ventral beams... have only been shown to have either a maximum range of low orbit... to a very low altitude. Not always. At the Battle of Kholo, Covenant ship are shown glassing with those beams from much higher altitudes. Here's two examples. They're high enough that the planet's curvature can be seen, and Kholo appears to have Earth-like gravity, meaning it's similar in size.


 * Also, the beams shown, even with the different power settings, have only really been red, blue, partially violet, and very wide as well, not to mention being composed of plasma on top of that. The color can change with retcons, and the plasma composition may just mean a slightly different firing. When it wants to cut ships, it uses the particle beams. When it wants to glass, it uses plasma. Veronica Dare mentions an Excavation Beam, suggested to work differently than ordinary glassing, and energy projectors are also known to be located right where the gravity lift is(another example of poor Covenant design!) They may simply be altering what the firing is made of depending on what's needed, but fire it out of the same weapon.


 * The two do appear to be slightly distinct weapons based on the design, but more in the sense of the difference between an orbital elevator and the Onager. Both of them are mass drivers, but one's been repurposed into a direct weapon. It's likely the same with these two Covenant weapons, the ventral projector is designed mostly for glassing, while the Supercruiser variant is more direct ship-to-ship combat. However, they would still operate on the same principle, and thus be energy projectors. Tuckerscreator (<font color="#008000">stalk ) 15:54, 26 September 2011 (EDT)

Good points, both of you.

Especially for you, Tuckerscreator. In the case of Kholo being glassed, and those CPV-Class Destroyers glassing Harvest from orbit in the introductory cinematic of Halo Wars, are the only instances in the visual and game canon in which we not only see those ventral beams being used in orbital bombardment, but the only cases in which we see the Covenant doing any orbital bombardment at all. And those were cases that were not done by Bungie; the only glassing shown there was always low-altitude glassing, and no other type, ever. In any event, what both you and Jugus are saying essentially boils down to the same thing, which I have suggested from the start; both are weapons are related and function on the same fundamental technologies, but are still distinct weapons in one way or another.

As for the distinction between plasma bolts/torpedo/etc. and particle beams is actually more subtle than it may seem. For starters, though the plasma bolts and 'torpedos'/guided plasma charges are elongated, contained, and "stabilized", they are still nevertheless discrete packages of relatively chaotic charged particles, more particularly composed of super-energetic, free-floating atomic nuclei and electrons. A particle beam, in contrast, despite being composed of the same thing, is a fully linear and often continuous formation of charged particles, and often far more focused and coherent, i.e. the vast majority of the particles are moving in the same direction: forward. Such a stream, or beam, is usually much smaller in diameter, and the damage effects of its impact are far more penetrating and localized than the comparatively spread-out damage of a plasma bolt.

In the context of the two weapons in question, the energy projectors/cleansing beams and the "sniper" weapon, they are both more in line with a particle beam, though the latter is far closer in mode and operation to such a device. In terms of similarities, the cleansing beams and other similar weapons are particle beams, because in their cases, they are coherent, linear masses/streams of charged particles almost entirely moving in the same direction and at the same speed. In these key characteristics, the energy projectors/cleansing beams are indeed particle beam weapons, albeit one that has a wide and visible diameter.

The sniping weapon, as it has been shown, is a particle beam weapon in the strictest sense of the term. Its speed, coherence, energy content, and its tiny diameter render it a much "purer" form of a particle beam weapon than the standard cleansing beam is. In fact, in the context of the weapon first being seen, Cpt. Keyes refers to it as a "new weapon", which is stated in the context of him being familiar with the other weapons employed by Covenant warships, from their pulse lasers, to their various plasma turrets, and of course, the ventral cleansing beams. Given how late in the war this sniping weapon appears, i.e. August 30, 2552, it is likely a new and distinct variation upon the Covenant's existing particle beam technology.

That said, I still suggest that the article be amended to make a distinction between these two similar but different weapons. --Exalted Obliteration 23:53, 26 September 2011 (EDT)


 * Thanks for the compliment! There's actually been twice that Bungie has shown high-orbit glassing, in the E3 trailer for Halo: Reach and during a cutscene for Long Night of Solace. During those two cases, the ship(s) performing the attack could not be seen, but the attack seemed to be done in a different manner, that is, charging the plasma to an enormous package then dropping it down as a bomb, which covers a range hundreds of times larger than the ship's size. The partial glassing on Harvest was instead the "low-altitude beam method", which is probably why it only seems to consist on lines on various areas, which could by why the Assembly initially underestimated glassing. So two different methods, one example of how the Covenant vary the weapons use.


 * Anyway, mainly what I was trying to determine from your main argument was whether you were arguing that the "sniping" supercruiser weapon was the "true" energy projector, or a entirely different weapon, akin to the difference between a pulse laser and a plasma torpedo. What I was arguing was they're two variants of the same weapon, repurposed for different uses. So I would agree to a "partial" split, but more to describe the distinct uses of each weapon, on the same page, much like what has done with the Magnetic Accelerator Cannon page. Tuckerscreator (<font color="#008000">stalk ) 01:31, 27 September 2011 (EDT)