Talk:Forge World

Page naming
We don't know if it's actually named "Blood Gulch" in the game. The page title should be "Unnamed Blood Gulch Remake".-- Fluffy Emo Penguin 18:25, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree with this. As far as I know, there is no definitive source stating it is Blood Gulch. Bungie also renames remakes and "spiritual successors", so there is next to no chance it will retain this name upon final release. XRoadToDawnX 18:32, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree too. In fact, it looks lot more like coagulation than Blood Gulch, so the Unnamed Blood Gulch remake is better. -- Tiku-Orava 20:26, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Any ideas on what it will be called?

as in : blood gulch>coagulation>valhalla>?????

I dunno, just some stupid ideas. you people got ideas?81.141.161.71 11:11, July 9, 2010 (UTC) (I know these talk pages aren't meant for speculation but they are more organised than the forums XD)
 * Blood mountain
 * Blood valley
 * Asgard
 * I'm guessing it would have to be a word that describes the next step in blood transformation after coagulation: "Fibrinolysis". I'm sure everyone will know how to pronounce this word the instant they look at it ;) It might be an ineffective name because it's uncommonly heard of. Maybe "Rigor Mortis" would work, which would be the next step in the post-death process.
 * A new idea comes to mind. Since this new Blood Gulch has a more revitalized feel with more foliage and less of a dry desert setting, it could be called "Revitalization". Also, since it is obviously a classic, maybe they will go with something more blunt like "Classic", lol.-- Fluffy Emo Penguin 00:35, July 10, 2010
 * (UTC)
 * My vote for Blood Gulch 3.0's name is Waystation/ Way Station, like Grif said in the RvB vid on Bungie day. EDIT: Diggin' around, I found a sci-fi novel by the name of "Way Station" exists. Food for thought... 80.222.44.24 12:29, July 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * THIS IS CALLED WAYSTATION! SOMEONE CHANGE IT!- aewsome bungieguy
 * No. A Weigh Station is a place where they weigh trucks on highways to make sure that they're not so heavy that they screw up the roads. 24.15.196.201 19:21, July 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * perhaps if someone just looked closely through the film, they could see where the map name might have shown up? King birdy  06:19, July 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Let's all remember that Halo:Reach takes place before Halo:CE, so this map may not be named as the next step from coagulation, but the step before blood gulch-maybe something on how the blood startd to flow?Navypilot1046 02:39, July 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * perhaps if someone just looked closely through the film, they could see where the map name might have shown up? King birdy  06:19, July 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Let's all remember that Halo:Reach takes place before Halo:CE, so this map may not be named as the next step from coagulation, but the step before blood gulch-maybe something on how the blood startd to flow?Navypilot1046 02:39, July 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Let's all remember that Halo:Reach takes place before Halo:CE, so this map may not be named as the next step from coagulation, but the step before blood gulch-maybe something on how the blood startd to flow?Navypilot1046 02:39, July 16, 2010 (UTC)

Why are you guys talking about Blood Gulch in Forge World??
 * The article was originally "Unnamed Blood Gulch Remake", where there was speculation about its name. With the announcement of Forge World, it was decided to simply merge the articles under the title of "Forge World". The talk page is a hold over from that. XRoadToDawnX 20:54, July 24, 2010 (UTC)

A final explanation for the bases!
Ever since Halo: CE, the Forerunner objects at each end of the map seem to have served no purpose other than being bases in a gameplay sense. Now I may have the solution to this puzzle. I'd like to note some things first. This remake contains Blood Gulch bases, not Coagulation bases, leading me to believe that it is the same canyon as the original Blood Gulch on Installation 04. Halo: Reach takes place before Halo: CE, so the almost dried river in Halo: Reach could have dried fully in Halo: CE, along with the rest of the canyon. What dried it? I propose that the Forerunner bases are actually some sort of drainage device or some sort of device that could dry the river. Further evidence? Look at the pics of the Halo: Reach Blood Gulch, the bases are placed in the river.-- Fluffy Emo Penguin 05:41, July 10, 2010 (UTC)

Erm... your thought processes up to "The base is a drain" seem pretty good... if they wanted to drain the river, they could've dug a hole. There are MUCH simpler ways to remove a body of water than constructing highly-advanced bases designed to do so. Echo-77 06:21, July 10, 2010 (UTC)

What about if the bases create energy while drying the river? -- Tiku-Orava 09:34, July 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * I was thinking that the bases weren't merely put there for the single purpose of draining, because it's true that draining wouldn't require highly-advanced drainage devices (although they aren't as highly-advanced when compared to other Forerunner structures). These bases could be a sort of water-regulation device, draining as well as refilling and regulating the flow of water through the canyon. This would give them a long-term purpose for existing.-- Fluffy Emo Penguin 15:18, July 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, but it cant be in the same location because there's a freakin' giant lake behind blue base. Also, has anyone noticed that the Halo ring is bent?
 * I know that there are a lot of differences between the two, but it could be a case of simply better graphics. Remember, every location in a Halo game is an artist's representation, so somewhere between Halo: CE's graphical capacity and Halo: Reach's graphical capacity, there were changes that are simply "implied" to have been there in the previous game. It's a hard concept to grasp. As for the Halo ring being bent, it could just be the wide angle effect in the Banshee picture. Actually, never mind, it is slanted. Maybe they had that in mind if people were to recreate the screenshot from Halo: CE's box cover...wait a sec, maybe this area is the same place where the boxart is set!-- Fluffy Emo Penguin 21:27, July 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Or, its not on the ring at all... 98.213.50.140 01:22, July 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * I always assumed the original bases were but the tip of a huge iceberg. Remember, Coagulation was supposed to be a later Blood Gulch, with the bases excavated a little, with an underground section. If someone dug further, I daresay a much larger (Valhalla?) structure would be found. The two bases may even be the tips of the same structure. --  Specops306   Autocrat     Qur'a 'Morhek   05:24, July 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * gets spade* lets see how big the baces are then-nuke-765

Location
The page says that this could possibly be on instalation 4. But it should say Reach. Because every multiplayer map from Halo:Reach is going to be in the campaign. And I don't think the campaign will feature Halo.Toen6 07:40, July 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * What, didn't you see the Halo ring on the background? Last time I checked, Reach didn't have a huge ring in the horizon. As for the story, we'll just have to wait and see. Bungie has stated that the thing about MP maps being pulled from the campaign wasn't "the full story" or something like that. But the map is definitely set on a Halo installation, there's no question of that. --Jugus (Talk  | Contribs ) 12:26, July 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * That doesn't necessarily mean that all of them will be pulled from campaign. Or who knows? Maybe not all of the story takes place on Reach. Maybe it takes place on an installation too.

Why the Halo is Slanted
I can only think of one reason for the ring being slanted. Its that the map is not located on the Installation at all. I know its not very likely, but that is the only thing that seems possible. Please post your ideas below. --Joem25 23:51, July 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * It could be that the terrain you're on (possibly a whole "continent" on the Halo) is slanted. And it couldn't be on a planet or moon (Basis) if that's what you were thinking. Remember, Burial Mounds was on Basis. This new Blood Gulch looks pretty lively for Basis.-- Fluffy Emo Penguin 17:10, July 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * Good thinking, but I don't think that that is the case. The lower portion of the ring that connects to the terrain that your on is normal, but the upper parts start to bend. That scraps both of our theories. I guess it'll remain a mystery. --Joem25 20:28, July 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * My guess is due to your location on the ring along with perspective, it causes a visual bend in the ring. It actually makes more sense than how it was shown in the past, which makes it seem like you are always walking in the very-most center of the ring itself. Though I could be wrong. XRoadToDawnX 21:39, July 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * With that being the case, it wouldn't seem bent or slanted, just off-center. I think the most plausible explanation is that the atmosphere is distorting your view.-- Fluffy Emo Penguin 01:20, July 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Or Theater mode in Reach lets you tilt the camera. --31stCenturyMatt 03:33, July 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, because in every picture, and even the ViDoc, the Halo is always slanted. I guess it's just for looks with no canon explanation.-- Fluffy Emo Penguin 02:59, July 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Another reason might be that the area is close to the edge of the halo - the distortion due to scale would make it appear to be slanted.
 * Another reason might be that the area is close to the edge of the halo - the distortion due to scale would make it appear to be slanted.

Hemorrhage
Actually "Unnamed Blood Gulch Remake" is called "Hemorrhage", which is then one part of "Forge World". --31stCenturyMatt 03:33, July 23, 2010 (UTC)

Source? NarutoROCKS189 05:16, July 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Kotaku, paragraph 6; IGN, paragraph 3 I only wanted to mention it rather than edit the article myself since I haven't seen Bungie state it themselves anywhere. Thanks. --31stCenturyMatt 05:45, July 23, 2010 (UTC)

It was stated above somewhere that it was on a web-page but the screenshots on B.Net say that they were taken on "Hemorrhage" which is a variant of Forge World just like "The Cage," the Lockout remake, and the Ascension remake (Pinnacle). Bungie has stated that they would ship the game with these variants of the same map aka "Forge World." MoB 5150 05:51, July 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * I think I see. So, Hemorrhage is a shipped variant of Forge World, with all the spawns in the canyon and the "you have 10 seconds to turn back" message if you try to fly to any of the other areas. Maybe that and the others you mention should have sections here, with articles named Pinnacle, et al., that redirect to the appropriate section in this article. (???) --31stCenturyMatt 06:05, July 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Possibly, but it also could be just a blank slate or yet another variant of the map. Gotta wait 'til it ships, bud. I'm debating on weather or not we can make new pages. Pros: It was shipped with the game so it's official. Cons: Should we also make a wiki page for every other map variant out there? I think not. This could go either way but as of right now I think it's too early since all we have is the information stated above, a ViDoc, and a few screenshots.--MoB 5150 06:24, July 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Okie doke. Thanks. Though, once the game ships, if it does include include Bungie-made variants for each area named Hemorrhage and so on, I'd argue for at least sections in this article / redirect articles back to the appropriate section. --31stCenturyMatt 06:40, July 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Quite redundant to create a page for every variant. Most, if not all, will have "copy-paste" info... which is why I think Sandtarp should be merged into Sandtrap article.- Sketch ist 06:29, July 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree, it would be a waste of time and effort. Just merge and make a new section with all the info. --MoB 5150 06:32, July 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Perhaps it would be a waste for now, but once the game ships I think that articles for the bungie varients should exist. Especially for Hemorrhage, being that it will be a popular matchmaking map (judging from how popular the previous iterations of Blood Gulch were). I know that as a long time lurker, I would be confused if I had gone to look up a map varient and had it not appear. With something like Sandtarp, its essentially the same map. Its a similar thing with the maps varients with no sheild doors. These could be in a section in the map. With Hemmorage, Pinacle and The Cage there is a lot more potential in an article - information on the boundarys, tactics, changes bungie makes to the default maps later due to the way people play it that they dont expect etc. -- The Storm 59 07:04, July 29, 2010 (UTC).
 * Anybody realized that the base placement is has been reversed in the RvB PSA?? -69.196.132.132 22:55, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * LOL...really? Death will follow you... but you can survive 20:48, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * I've thought about this, and thanks to gameplay footage off of bungie.net, I've come to realize that the bases are not reversed. I was just looking at it the wrong way. The caves are off to the left of blue base, and the cliff is to the right of blue base, which would be the cliff overlooking the red base from the left. not that any of this matters of course. PsychoSunEnder 02:54, September 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * I've thought about this, and thanks to gameplay footage off of bungie.net, I've come to realize that the bases are not reversed. I was just looking at it the wrong way. The caves are off to the left of blue base, and the cliff is to the right of blue base, which would be the cliff overlooking the red base from the left. not that any of this matters of course. PsychoSunEnder 02:54, September 11, 2010 (UTC)

Broken Link
The page that is supposed to link to the 'Ghost' (in the list of vehicles on the map) is bringing me to the Chopper. Hopefully someone can fix this, cause I sure can't. UEG Dero AD 10:56, July 24, 2010 (UTC)

Fixed DarkbelowHGR   CommbandD  11:02, July 24, 2010 (UTC)

New articles for official map variants
With all the different variants Bungie is releasing with the map, I think they deserve their own articles as we did so ffor the slight changes for some of the Halo 3 maps (sandtrap/sandtarp). But mostly for the new blood gulch remake Hemmorage. Really needs its own article. --HaloFighter92 03:52, July 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * Learn to read the above discussions. We already said "no articles for variants since they would be copy-pasted info".- Sketch ist 04:09, July 25, 2010 (UTC)

Gravity
Did anyone else notice that in the ViDoc that the gravity was changing at one point, so that the camera had to actually flip to correct itself. If anybody else noticed maybe it should be added to the article.Fatgunn 03:03, July 26, 2010 (UTC)

I checked the video it happens right at 5:00. Is it possibly an option or a specific item.Fatgunn 03:08, July 26, 2010 (UTC)

--I noticed this too, but my guess is its just an optical illusion. There is a map like it on Foundry thats tilted sideways so you can walk on almost every wall\surface. UEG Dero AD 21:17, July 27, 2010 (UTC)

I've played on that map but this is different. When it first shows the clip the you can see corner of what appears to be the default wall. After the spartan jumps the camera shows another corner caused by the default walls. I may be wrong but it appears the spartan was adhering to a wall at a 90 degree angle off the floor. And when he jumps the "adherence" is lost and he falls straight down. I was curious about this because if this is a gameplay option, imagine an infection game where zombies can climb the walls.Fatgunn 00:38, July 28, 2010 (UTC)

-- That would be interesting. But for right now i'm going to vote optical illusion. Although it could be possible. UEG Dero AD 21:24, July 28, 2010 (UTC)

I'm going to say no. It is just another illusion map. Ever played Distortion on Foundry? Same principle. To create a gravity-changing function in the game's engine would take phenominal amounts of data.-- Fluffy Emo Penguin 23:18, July 29, 2010 (UTC)

Built in map variants
Added a section detailing map variants which will be shipping with Halo: Reach. This way information in the description can be moved into sections regarding the maps themselves.

This section DEFINATELY needs some work/more information to be added, but I'm out of time right now. Information needs to be moved from the description to the map sections as mentioned above. Also, information gained visually from videos could e added - eg which vehicles appear in hemorrhage, locations of bases, etc. -- The Storm 59 09:51, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

Installation?
Has there been any indication as to which installation this takes place on? I'm pretty sure this isnt Installation 4(a or b) or installation 5. FATGUNN 16:22, July 31, 2010 (UTC)


 * How could you possibly be sure it isn't either of those? It could well be any halo instillation. -- The Storm 59 03:27, August 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * I dont think its 5 because theres no sign of flood. 4b wasnt built yet. it could be 4a considering the timeframe. FATGUNN 22:09, August 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * Instillation 5 had containment set up. Think about the first levels on 5. No flood there either. -- The Storm 59 07:44, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

There is no timeframe for Multiplayer maps. Cold Storage is set tens of thousands of years ago.-- Forerunner 23:30, August 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * He has a point. -- FATGUNN 00:31, August 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * Based on what we've seen from the other installations' surfaces, it makes sense for it to be either 04 or 05. Since 04 can be considered the "classic" or "original" halo, my vote goes for it. BTW, Cold Storage is in the game's timeframe, not tens of thousands of years ago. Read the Smuggler transmissions more carefully.-- Fluffy Emo Penguin 20:55, August 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * I say 05, because in the vidoc, they say "layout is that of coagulation, but the bases are like bloodgulch", so it is coagulation, just still buried. Although, it might be a completely different ring. -- DarkbelowHGR  CommbandD  23:32, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * If it were the same canyon as Coagulation, then why isn't it a red rock savanna? It's too different. And I just realized that there is no gas giant near this halo. This might mean that its either something other than 04 or 05, or it's just a completely non-canon place.-- Fluffy Emo Penguin 23:45, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * How about this: Bungie didn't even care which instalation it is because this multiplayer map is meant just for Forge and is not cannon. Que   Sera,  Sera  00:05, August 12, 2010 (UTC)


 * 'course it isn't red, SImmons left the water on remember? :P, but it probably is a different installation... -- DarkbelowHGR  CommbandD  00:04, August 12, 2010 (UTC)


 * Not to mention the huge holes and geographical changes to the canyon. Not to mention that the map is closer to the edge of the Halo than any other map has been judging from the tilt of the Halo ring. Not to mention that leaving the water on would not change the climate that drastically (I recognise you were joking, but I'm sure someone might take it seriously). Not to mention that there were 5 other Halo rings it could be set on. Not to mention that Alpha Halo and Delta Halo were still quite similar in appearance anyway, and different climates on different parts of the ring could explain why this section is different. Not to mention a million different things which discount any guess as to which ring it might take place on.


 * "How about this: Bungie didn't even care which instalation it is because this multiplayer map is meant just for Forge and is not cannon. Que   Sera,  Sera " <-- This. QFT -- The Storm 59 04:09, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

Map Variant Images
I feel that the map variants which are not built in maps should be removed from the article as although they are pretty cool and represent what you can do in Forge World, they do not represent maps which will be shipped with the game which is what the corresponding section of the article is refering to. -- The Storm 59 13:27, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

Objects in Montana
I noticed that under the description of Montana it says that the objects shown in the Vidoc will likely be removable. If you pay attention to the video, they say that a "completely" empty version of the map will come on the disc. They also say on the Bungie update that they included no "tree" scenery piece, so I doubt this will be the case. FemixZn 02:43, August 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * Sounds like plants are non-forgeable.-- Forerunner 03:13, August 10, 2010 (UTC)

They meant "empty" as in there will be no forge items. FATGUNN 03:33, August 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * Bungie confirmed that trees will not be forge items in a recent update. Commander Silver Leaf.PNG Kougermasters   ( Talk )   ( Contribs )   ( Edits )  04:08, August 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, no forge items, that's what I meant. As this is the case, I don't think you can remove those trees/rocks/etc. I would've changed that myself, but figured it'd just be changed back. FemixZn 21:43, August 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * Uhh dude, Rocks ARE forgable... Trees aren't though. 195.240.108.224 15:24, August 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * I doubt most of those rocks are forgable. Lots of them look like bits of cliff face geometry. -- The Storm 59 15:53, August 11, 2010 (UTC)

Grifball Court
Do not remove. Confirmed as a built in map in the ViDoc. Everyone just missed it. Reference added shows a screen of the frame in the Forge World ViDoc. Enjoy. -- The Storm 59 15:52, August 11, 2010 (UTC)

Map
Has bungie released a heatmap for Forge World yet so we can get an exact relation between the different areas instead of just our inferences from the videos? FATGUNN 22:00, August 22, 2010 (UTC)

No, but I made a map which should give you a general idea about the layout of Forge World. Click -- The Storm 59 05:59, August 28, 2010 (UTC)

Here is one. http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/Heatmaps.aspx?player=II%20The%20Se7en

--Kluutak 23:58, September 10, 2010 (UTC)

Avalanche
Does anybody else think the island looks like avalanche more than sidewinder? -- Fatgunn

I think the parts in the centre towards the alaska area make it appear much more like sidewinder, however it has some avalance elements for sure - like the tunnel to the end of the horseshoe. -- The Storm 59 06:01, August 28, 2010 (UTC)

Stop creating separate pages
Separate pages are reserved for FULL MAPS, not variants. We've been over this several times before, people.-- Fluffy Emo Penguin ( ice quack! ) 23:45, September 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * Than fix it. 1-10 17:31, September 5, 2010 (UTC)


 * The problem is that these variants are also considered as quasi-multiplayer maps. Each is built uniquely and distinctly from one another by Bungie.-  5 əb'7 aŋk (7alk ) 17:39, September 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, they are built in and will be seen in matchmaking. Each map will have its own tactics just like if it were a different map, so I think the pages should stay, but only because they're built-in. After all, this isn't Forge hub. Que   Sera,  Sera  18:07, September 5, 2010 (UTC)


 * I think that these variants should stay as separate, smaller articles as long as they are being shipped with the disc. Variants like Riptide (Jurkout) on the other hand should just redirect to the section of this article that mentions them. Besides, there are separate articles for Boundless and Epilogue, aren't there? FemixZn 13:50, September 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Boundless and Epilogue are scheduled to be merged with the original maps.-  5 əb'7 aŋk (7alk ) 13:53, September 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Fine, built-in Forge World maps should stay, but Atom and Cliffhanger should NOT have their own article just because they're in matchmaking. Following that logic, we would have 30 more pages dedicated to the maps that get into matchmaking via Forgetacular Contest, and 30 more dedicated to the maps in Halo 3's Maption Sack.--[[Image:PENGUIN4.gif|15px]] Fluffy Emo Penguin ( ice quack! ) 13:14, 31 October 2010 (EDT)

All in one possible?
Is it possible to make all the maps on forge world into one? I am trying to do that right now, and was wondering if I was wasting my time.--Blahmarrow 18:50, 22 April 2011 (EDT)


 * I don't see how you wouldn't; you should certainly have enough pieces to recreate the whole thing.-  Fore  run  ner '' 20:06, 22 April 2011 (EDT)


 * Actually I just found out that I don't have enough pieces. Which is unfortunate because I had made Hemo and was working on Asylum. --Blahmarrow 20:48, 22 April 2011 (EDT)


 * Couldn't you substitute some pieces? It doesn't have to be a carbon copy.--  Fore  run  ner '' 21:45, 22 April 2011 (EDT)

It does to me (very sad crying face) If only there was more building pieces.--Blahmarrow 09:27, 23 April 2011 (EDT)

List of Special Variants?
I was wondering if we might should make a list of the special variants of Forge World that appear in Team Classic and Action Sack (I'm fairly certain Action Sack is the playlist I'm thinking of). After all, that's quite a few variants that are good maps going unlisted. -- Am I a Lion, or a Lamb? Or a Boy?  Saint o r Sinner? The Lost Books 18:36, 19 June 2011 (EDT)


 * Unfortunately, we are only mentioning/making articles for the forge world maps that shipped with the game in order to avoid an extreme amount of fan created maps. pestilence   Phil,  pestilence!  18:57, 19 June 2011 (EDT)
 * Actually, there have been two exceptions, but they were both Bungie-made maps and appear in almost all playlists. I suppose it would depend on how much the map is used and whether or not it was created by Bungie. pestilence   Phil,  pestilence!  19:03, 19 June 2011 (EDT)