Talk:Flood

Flood Brutes
Does anyone remember seeing flood brutes?--JohnSpartan117 04:44, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
 * No. I don't think Bungie put them in. --Dragonclaws 05:17, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
 * maybe juggernuts were flood brutes--Sangheili 00:42, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
 * The Middle section of a Juggernaught is too thin to be a brute--Will 16:16, 04 January 2007 (UTC)
 * As for Juggernauts, I don't really think there is an explanation for them, which is why you don't fight them in the game. Bungie just couldn't think of something for them on time.  guesty - persony - thingy  00:52, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah I agree with the Jug thing, (I think it should be noted as a discontinued Idea by bungie, not as an actual form) On Brute forms, i think bungie just didnt have time so we may see them in H3 (seeing as how the majority is Brutes), and the Jug could be a brute, the flood change the host to meet its needs so the thin middle could be just the way they needed it. BTW you can see that the thigh area looks like a spine and thighs, covered in loose flesh.

Lt.O&#39;Brien 15:27, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I know that you sometimes see dead bodies turn into flood. Are Brutes just ignored?--JohnSpartan117 06:06, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Maybe we will see Flood Brutes in Halo 3, we just have to wait and see. User:Joshua 029


 * Wow, this is the only topic you guys could think of right now? Come on!--prophit of war 21:47, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

--Spade6179 19:40, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

--Maybe to hairy? To complex perhaps? Or maybe they were never thought of as a combat or juggernaut flood form...

Flood in Marathon?
I was looking at bungies marathon page and it mentioned and showed a picture of something called a fungal zombie which looked and seemed really close to the flood.
 * The flood is a parasite, not a fungus. -- ED ( talk )(shockfront) 17:48, 3 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I know, but this was Marathon not Halo, so maybe the flood started as just a concept from Marathon that was carried over to Halo. Perhaps like the Phor Hunters?


 * The closest thing in Marathon to the Flood is the Simulacrums, which are robots identical to humans that run at you and explode. From a story-telling pov, the Wrkncacnter is close to the Flood, but they bear no real resemblance besdes their role. -69.129.211.26 12:27, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Flood = Flood
Hey, has anyone noticed there's a thing about the flood. They come in waves, waves of flood(parasite), floods can have waves in them(water). Anyone notice how they're similer?--prophit of war 23:56, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

hence the name. FallenMind 23:02, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that is probably how they got their name. -- ED ( talk )(shockfront) 17:49, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Spore Thing ... huh What?

 * Hey, does anyone know what that spore thing was for in High Charity at the end of Halo 2.--prophit of war 15:14, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
 * what spore thing in High Charity? The Brain forms?--Will 16:16, 04 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I think the spores are the basis for the infection forms. The spores get into a host, turn him into a carrier full of infection forms. I think the Juggernaut a conglomeration of bodies like the brain forms.
 * Yeah... we don't really know how it got started, but there must have been a first infection form, and it inserted its spores into someone, climbed in there to control it, and eventually more infection forms came out and did what the first one did.  guesty - persony - thingy  00:52, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I think that the spore viewed in the begining of the post-game cinematic, is just a close-up shot of the stuff making the air look green. I think the reason that you don't see brute combat forms, is that they are used for a different purpose, or they might be too clumsy to be controled effectively by the flood.

eh, just like the above stated. just a close up of the spores the flood release into the air to change the enviornment to their liking. also i think brutes don't have as much mental function or perhaps the flood simply don't find them 'tasty'. they could have likes and dislikes too you know. also the thing about the spores and the first infection form, i'm gonna have to say it's wrong. i personally think flood are highly evolved viruses, in a way. though that's just me.The Black Phoenix

Change NOW!
the section with ideas on what the flood were, it seems to say "Many think" (or something to that nature) way to much, and needs to be changed. Lt.O&#39;Brien 15:27, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Feel free to change it. -- ED ( talk )(shockfront) 17:48, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

EDITS
"The Flood demonstrated the ability to assimilate and infect non-sentient life forms such as those in the Hunting Preserve on the Infinite Succor."

The Animals were sentient-life, the were conscious. This only shows that the do not only assimilate Bi-peds (living things that walk on two legs).

"This is similar to the events in Halo 1 where the Master Chief boards a Covenant ship to find Captain Keyes. Cortana notes the Flood are gathering bodies and it is most likely for the Brain Form that was found on the bridge."

Also not true, moments later she says that they are gathering them 'most likely for food'

And the section titled "Rules for Fighting the flood" is completely out of context, written in a real-world prospective, and is not written professionally.

-Lt.O&#39;Brien 15:10, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Feel free to correct any discrepencies. -- ED ( talk )(shockfront) 17:49, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Um.. last time I checked, sentient life meant capable of concious problem solving? Maybe not, just throwin' it out there.
 * According to Wikipedia: Sentience refers to possession of sensory organs, the ability to feel or perceive, not necessarily including the faculty of self-awareness. The possession of sapience is not a necessity. The word sentient is often confused with the word sapient, which can connote knowledge, consciousness, or apperception. The root of the confusion is that the word conscious has a number of different usages in English. The two words can be distinguished by looking at their Latin roots: sentire, "to feel"; and sapere, "to know". -- Dragonc laws ( talk ) 00:23, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Umm, wow, did you copy all that from Wikipedia? Capt Bartlett 15:51, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Shotgun error
In halo 2 the flood shoot shot guns with one hand. Yet they constintly shoot it with out having to cock it back. --Spartan 1 1 7 23:37, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I added that to the trivia. I noticed it too...-ED 20:33, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

They always makes mistakes like that! It fine by meMaster Chief Petty Officer 08:52, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Is english your second language Chief?--User:JohnSpartan117 04:46, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

You could say so, but I am half Australian, half ChineseMaster Chief Petty Officer 05:13, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Hah hah, looks like that went over your head. -- ED ( talk )(shockfront) 17:47, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Re: two-handed weapons. It could be the Flood infection forms have the cancerous-fiber-morbidly-referred-to-as-"muscle-strength necessary to wield big weapons one-handed. Mind, that doesn't explain how they can pump shotguns... Kriegsaffe No. 9 22:43, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

The forerunner and flood relationship
I think that just like humans, the forerunner were on a fool's errand to gain all the knowledge and secrets this universe has to offer. They abducted species from all over the milky-way, maybe further, and released them in facilities similar but not halo's to research them. After the halo's were built, they stored all they learnt on the solid/liquid state quantum-computers in the halo libraries (the glowing blue installations seen on Halo 04 on the level 'The Library'), as well as all the information neccesary to run the halo rings themselves. The index holds the research on the forerunners themselves. Each library and index is the same. The last species they discovered were the flood.

The flood also discovered them. The forerunner, with much effort, managed to collect some flood and set them relocated them to the halo's. Then, not long after things go wrong and the flood escape from containment. And the flood spread away from the halo's and contaminated the forerunner, and thus the great war began...

A face in the Novel


i think thats Keyes - SPARTAN-410
 * It is likely just a generic human Combat Form. The cover features the Chief fighting a group of Infection forms, it would make sense. -ED 02:40, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 * That's obviously Keyes as he is slowly being destroyed by the Flood that infects him and turns him into a Brain Form. It even looks like an artists' rendition on Keyes, a little. Also, since a good chunk of the book is written from the point of view of Keyes as he is being assimilated, it is likely Keyes on the cover. - Halo Man.
 * Did it occur to you that's its an illusion? Well, I agree with ED!--Master Chief Petty Officer 09:32, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I think it could either be Keyes, Jenkins, or anyone who was assimilated by the Flood 'cause it just looks like a regular face in extreme pain. Respect them Grunts, --Mouse among men 04:08, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

I think is more likely to be a comba form of a humanMaster Chief Petty Officer 06:59, 25 February 2007 (UTC) It's Keyes alright, cause his head shape and the fact that he became a flood.user:the evil O,malley

Pouch Form is Fanfiction!

 * Following removed from article on User:Cumberdale 03:49, 10 March 2007

The Pouch form is a Flood type very much like the Brain Form. It is a non mobile form, Seen in the corridors of High Charity. It is usually attached found to a wall or corner. This might be an asexual adaptation to the lack of sentient life over the centuries. If so, the forerunner’s plan to kill them using halo failed because of this. They have never been seen “hatching” though but they have been known to produce Infection Forms.

Flood Warcry
Hey, you guys know how right before the Flood attack in a level they make that screech?
 * Are you sure? I never heard it? -- ED ( talk )(shockfront) 17:45, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I've heard it. It's like a yowling cat. -- Dragonc laws ( talk ) 19:48, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I know the sound you're talking about, but that doesn't sound like a screech to me...-- ED ( talk )(shockfront) 21:00, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, it's a loud, high-pitched (sort-of) sound. I can imagine the original poster was refering to the same thing. -- Dragonc laws ( talk ) 10:27, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Is not a cat! -.- y cat just meows, mews, yowls, screech, and... purrs! anywho it is a... no it is a roar. the host is the maybe the Floodling makes the sound...

Duskstorm 15:31, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Flood Reproduction
Do the Flood trade genetic material when they reproduce? If not, I would think that they could all be wiped out by one virus and the Forerunners wouldn't need the Halos. In Halo 1 you can see several Infection Forms gathered on an Elite corpse. -- Dragonc laws ( talk ) 20:16, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Their only form of reproduction is infection. -- ED ( talk )(shockfront) 17:46, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I was never questioning that. I was wondering if there was any genetic material being transfered, any room for mutation and evolution. I think it's likely that to make a Carrier Form, the Infections deposit eggs into the host. I was wondering if there could be some kind of fertilization on the part of the other Infections, or whether that is unnecessary? If not, perhaps all Flood should be refered to as female? -- Dragonc laws ( talk ) 20:12, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, that. Yeah, I have a feeling that genetic material is transferred to the carrier form. It would take very specific DNA patterns to create new infection forms, a lot of other parasites of the same type use some kind of exchange of DNA or RNA to reproduce, such as the Bacteriophage. Obviously they haven't out and said it yet. -- ED ( talk )(shockfront) 21:03, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Flood on Earth?
Maybe in Halo 3 the flood will get to Earth. The flood had appeared in both Halo: CE and Halo 2 and I still think it will appear in Halo 3. In the final cutscene of the level High Charity you can see covenant ships attacking each other, so its obvious the flood has taken some of the ships and maybe they will follow the forerunner ship to Earth. I want some ideas.

Mabye.But they weren't on earth in Halo 2. But like I said, mabye, because the Ark will destroy them, I dunno, I'm trhowing out random ideas. Spartan 012 10:08, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

If you are looking in a biblical way, you will see that Noah have been saved from the flood because he built an ark, well, maybe the ark is representing a place for hiding!ΜΆŜΤΈŖČΗέÏΣΡΈΤΤΥОΓΓïČëŗ 13:07, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Umm... I'm pretty sure they were attacking each other because of the Covenant Civil War. But I guess the flood could of comandeered a space worthy ship. Teflon4 05:34, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

There is a possibility in destroying the Floods, but small. It very small there might require the combination force of both Covie and human race to destroy them. But they may be some out there, the other Halos, who knows!ΜΆŜΤΈŖČΗέÏΣΡΈΤΤΥОΓΓïČëŗ 11:22, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Flood are probably gunna come to earth in high charity... Campaign Obsessive 06:55, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

If the Covie Loyalists are the only guy who you're facing, you'd probably be more interested in Multiplayer. ΜΆŜΤΈŖČΗέÏΣΡΈΤΤΥОΓΓïČëŗ 12:05, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Flood Influence
It seems that like the Elites and Protoss, there may have been some influence drawn from the zerg when creating the Flood. For example, they are both led by a super-mind. The Flood have the Gravemind and the zerg have the Overmind. Also, each species practices some form of assimilation. The zerg assimilate new species to create new zerg units and they can also assimilate Terrans to create Infested Terrans. Obviously, the Flood extensively practice assimilation to produce combat and carrier forms. Both species also has a larva stage. The zerg larva are those things you click on and then decide what it will mutate into and the Flood have the oh so annoying infection form. However, they do assimilate in different ways; the zerg passively and the Flood aggressivley.
 * They follow the conventional "swarm race" theme seen in many sci-fi universes, where a race of mindless beings serve a single leader and reproduce by assimilation. Other examples include the Borg in Star Trek, the Necromongers in the Chronicles of Riddick, the Undead Scourge in Warcraft and, yes, the Zerg in Starcraft. -- ED ( talk )(shockfront) 19:47, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Don't forget about the Killiks and Bartokk from the Star Wars universe. -- Lordofmonsterisland "Roar to me"  00:05, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Flood Juggernaught
Flood Juggernaughts are really nothing! Thay are spawned, like Floodlings, from the Gravemind. They are true flood or they could be soem type of animal... THEY are not Hunters. Hunters don't have bones they are worms... and tehy are cerntainly not brutes, those monkeys are tooooooooooo fat. Got this info from Bunjie.Net...

Duskstorm 19:26, 16 April 2007 (UTC)


 * What are Floodlings? I know they don't match up to Brutes or Drinol, and the Hunter thing I had never considered as an option given their anantomy. They seem to resemble Engineers but with legs, making me think it's perhaps a hybrid of Elites and Engineers. -- Dragonc laws ( talk ) 19:37, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Floodlings, we all know, come from the Gravemind AND Carrier forms. I guess Juggernaughts are just spawned from the Gravemind or they just form when a combat form gets to old and tehy turn into it, none the less that have bones (the rib cage).

Duskstorm 15:28, 17 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Seriously, what are Floodlings? Do you mean Infection Forms? What is the evidence for either of them being spawned from the Gravemind? -- Dragonc laws ( talk ) 19:30, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Cite a source for your theory if you can, Duskstorm. -- ED ( talk )(shockfront) 19:48, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Floodlings ,dubed by people on another fansite, believe the nfecton forms to come from teh gravemind. It does make sence becua they just don't pop out of every corner and the must come from somewhere. Also they are created in carrier forms and... i just ran out of ideas... so... meow.

Duskstorm 15:18, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Infection forms ONLY come from carrier forms, I'm pretty sure, and they have yet to actually be called "floodlings" in canon, so I have no idea where you get that idea. -- ED ( talk )(shockfront) 21:26, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Hunter Combat Form
Clarified fictional by www.covenant-clan.co.uk/, this combat form seems to be extremely inevitable when infected by the Flood species; they are also similar to the Juggernaut form: Not by character, but by total strength and possibly size. May this be the Juggernaut form discussed earlier? Will Bungie classify this as a new Flood species? If so, will they also include the mysterious Covenant Engineer? --Spade6179 01:35, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I removed it from the main page and put this here and let you all decide how to handle this info--[[Image:GRAW.png|25px]] MCPO Spartan  1138  01:41, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Hunters can't be Juggernauts. They are worms and have big big plasma cannons on their arms and Flood can't infect all the worms or get near plasma becaus they hate it.

Duskstorm 15:31, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I know that, there was the site there an I didn't feel like taking the time to look at it.--[[Image:GRAW.png|25px]] MCPO Spartan  1138  15:47, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, it's the cancer induced by plasma that's the problem, and that might even be an ONI coverup anyway. -- Dragonc laws ( talk ) 11:42, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

If you read the Hunter article carefully, you will see that they are difficult or impossible to infectΜΆŜΤΈŖČΗέÏΣΡΈΤΤΥОΓΓïČëŗ 11:34, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

It's weird, it says "this is fictional" and then goes on to talk about it as if it weren't. -- Dragonc laws ( talk ) 11:42, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Hunters can't be combat forms period. They are just a bunch of eels that thnk the same. You can't infect them all and as stated before by that one guy they have ALOT of plasma.

Duskstorm 15:06, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Not only are the Hunters immune to infection decause of their makeup, but the eels themselves are immune, as they are invertibrates and likely have little if any calcium to feed off of. -- ED ( talk )(shockfront) 20:27, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Spade6179 18:21, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

--Spade here: It's just a thought; maybe it's not a Combat form but a new form, something extraordinary & complex. But that was weeks ago: now with these "leaks" and "betas", chances are slim. I am 13 years old and thinking like a programmer.

Animal combat form
So the flood can infect animals with senses right? Good thing that didn't happen in the games yet....  S pa rt  an  B I H    COMM     Contribs  23:28, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't see what you mean by animal!ΜΆŜΤΈŖČΗέÏΣΡΈΤΤΥОΓΓïČëŗ 11:41, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I said myself wrong, I mean I don't see much animals in the game. ΜΆŜΤΈŖČΗέÏΣΡΈΤΤΥОΓΓïČëŗ 08:15, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Dogs, elephants, ANIMALS! don't you know what an animal is? S pa rt  an  B I H    <font color=Red>COMM     Contribs  18:05, 27 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Technically, humans and Covies are animals too. So, they already have. And yes, lower species can be infested as well assuming they meet the requirements. -- Dragon<font color="FF0000">c laws ( talk ) 19:00, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

ahh yes humans and  covies are animals i meant like non intelligent animals. but yea thanks for conforming it. cuz i saw it in the graphic novel thingy.. S pa <font color=darkred>rt  an  B <font color=red>I <font color=orangered>H    <font color=Red>COMM     Contribs  04:27, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

You should see the Halo Graphic Novel. The ship that the Flood land on has tons and tons and tons of animals on it. -- Lordofmonsterisland  "Roar to me"  01:25, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Study Form
the flood sample form is a sample of flood cells not a form of flood if anyone was looking, take a drop of blood and a microscope and you get the same result


 * That's what I thought... I removed it until someone else can figure out a better way to write aboot it. <font color="#000000">g <font color="#770000">ü <font color="#cc0000">é <font color="#ff0000">ß <font color="#ff3333">Ł <font color="#ff6666">¥ -<font color="#9999ff">π <font color="#6666ff">é <font color="#3333ff">Ґ <font color="#0000ff">∫ <font color="#0000cc">ø <font color="#000066">ñ <font color="#000000">¥ -<font color="#000000">† <font color="#007700">ħ <font color="#00cc00">î <font color="#00ff00">И <font color="#44ff44">g <font color="#99ff99">¥  08:59, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Halo Graphic Novel - The Last Voyage of the Infinite Succor
I recently read this and I noticed some strange things about the Flood. One is that there were a whole lot of new forms made from the animals that were onboard the ship at the time of the infection. But something else I noticed was some of the other Combat forms. They extremely grotesque. One I saw (I couldn't see below the bottom of it's chest) had a huge Flood mass on its' back, a human head bent forward (so that it was upside-down), and two Grunt heads over its' right shoulder. What was up with that? -- Lordofmonsterisland  "Roar to me"  15:45, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

After reading that, I have just one thing to say: Holy Sh!t!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -- user:Darktrooper117

Extragalactic?
After seeing the server 04 video, I guess we can now assume the Flood are an extragalactic species... I edited the 'Flood' page accordingly. :) Blue Ninja 21:07, 9 August 2007 (UTC)


 * That hasn't been proven -- Lordofmonsterisland "Roar to me"  23:57, 9 August 2007 (UTC)


 * It atchually says so in episode 4 transmission in big letters, go check it. --Ajax 013 00:26, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Maybe the flood juggernauts are a sort of gaurd for gravemind
maybe the flood juggernauts are a sort of gaurd for gravemind if the juggernauts were supposed to spawn on High Charity when the gravemind was invading maybe bungie's original idea was for them to be gaurd forms or bodygaurds at least.121.79.30.107 09:34, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Uh no the juggernauts were supposed to apper on the level Oracle, not on high charity. the Gas mine had no Gravemind so sorry but this is impossible. --Pileyourbodies 01:21, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

then why is youtube video on high charity? and as for the oracle the gas mine was a flood RESEARCH facility maybe the forerunners created the juggernaut or maybe it mutated or evolved? just thinging outside the boxAlphacheiftain101 06:55, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Flood Juggernaut arent't suppose to appear...ΜΆŜΤΈŖČΗέÏΣΡΈΤΤΥОΓΓïČëŗ 02:04, 18 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually yes they are. Flood Juggernauts were originally meant to spawn on Oracle, QZ and High Charity. Bungie removed them...because...theyre Bungie. Inscrutable like that. -69.129.211.26 12:33, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Experiments?
Yes! FINALLY proof that the Flood weren't created by the Forerunners as an experiment! Though it raises more questions...even if the Halo's are activated, will the Flood live on in another galaxy, remaining a threat?  Kora ‘Morhekee   The Battle-Net  My Conquests.  08:53, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Proof, what proof? ChurchReborn 18:07, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Iris Episode 4. The Flood are from another complete galaxy, and the Forerunners encountered them.  Kora ‘Morhekee   The Battle-Net  My Conquests.  01:33, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't makes any different, after all, Iris is probably a big mystery to us, I always think the Forerunners might be sending a hidden message...ΜΆŜΤΈŖČΗέÏΣΡΈΤΤΥОΓΓïČëŗ 12:06, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Wheres the Cmonkeys?
I was looking over the forms and saw nothing about the little creatures floating around in the glass and metal box at the beginning of gas mine level. Some modder found out their name while hacking characters. See youtube vid. I think they should atleast be noted. =P 20:48, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

lol thats crazy how they can use vehicles and carry guns. Awesome vid. P.S. dont know if they're cannon but then again niether is the juggernaut. Possibly an immature infection form like the one that infected Jenkins.--EliteSpartan 4:16 PM August 28, 2007

First, that was a like a bump possesion or whatever it is when you only look like the character but act the same. Second, you can see them in the level, the arbiter. Third, the flood that infected Jenkins wasn't immature,it was ancient. I think that they look different enough to be in at least trivia. (looks like a flood/facehugger/glowworm mix to me) =P 15:45, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Good points you seem to know a lot about these things. Feel free to add a Cmonkeys section to the flood forms section. --EliteSpartan 3:50PM August 29 2007

Unnecessarily long?
I know RR has been doing a massive rewriting of this article but I think some sections are way too long. The Battle on Installation 04, and the battle of installation 05, are kind of unnecessarily long especially when theres a link to the main article. I'd hate for all of RR's work to go to waste so maybe we should merge the excess information to the main articles and just have a short summary on this article. --EliteSpartan 4:20PM August 29 2007