Talk:M90 shotgun

Rename/split (different from the old one below)
Hello, I bet you guessed who was responsible for the tag this time. Yup, you guessed it, me Justin Time.

Now this article is named "M90A Shotgun" but seems to be about the whole M90 Shotgun Series. Now I think you should either rename the article "M90 CAWS Shotgun Series" or something similar to that (this is what I suggest), or else do what you have done for the SRS99C and SRS99D sniper rifles and split them into seperate articles despite their near identical function and how they belong to the same series.

But its got to change some how, it cant be named "M90A" and be about the M90A and the regular M90s, so either make it about the whole series of M90 shotguns, or split them into respective articles. Thanks for hearing me out yet again.

--Justin Time 03:37, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't mean to like, disappoint anyone, but I could be wrong, and you could be wrong... but listen to this for a sec: This article is about a Shotgun, not the Shotgun Series. --B le mo http://www.wikia.com/skins/common/progress-wheel.gif TALK • CONTRIBUTIONS 04:05, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Uh... screw that last part... --B le mo http://www.wikia.com/skins/common/progress-wheel.gif TALK • CONTRIBUTIONS 04:06, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Um yea, have you read the article, it covers the whole series, including the Halo 1&2 M90s. --Justin Time 04:09, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, for once Justin is in the right, lol! Truthfully there should be three articles but the weapon titles are all fuzzy. From what i can tell there is the M90 Mk I, II and M90A CAWS. Theres three possible ways to sort this. Either we split them into the Mk. I, II and the A, which is a little wierd, leave it as it is or and i am in favour of this, somebody go ask Bungie, which will sort the matter out. --Ajax 013 12:03, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

I feel that this article be renamed M90 Close Assault Weapon System and include the Halo 3 variant(in the article) as the M90A.--Sp art an- 781  CommCSV 08:31, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, someone should go ask Bungie on the EXACT names of the Halo 1 & 2 models. What if they indeed bear the same "a" variant?--Sp art <font color="Gray">an- <font color="Black">781  [[Image:Seaman.png|25px]] CommCSV 08:33, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Votes to move to M90 Shotgun
Support -- ED ( talk )(gaming) 01:46, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Support Should it really be a voting matter? No matter which name sounds cooler, one is fact and one is fanon. Oh well, I support! --Justin Time 04:59, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Support. <font color="DARKRED">Emo <font color="DARKRED">s  10:28, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Weak Support. The Shotgun is properly referred to as the M-90 Mk. I/II/III Close Assault Weapon System. However, we don't refer to the assault rifles, AFAIK, as the MA5B/C Individual Combat Weapons System, which is their proper name. And the proper names of the pistols are the M6C/D/G Personal Defense Weapons Systems, but we don't say that either. And the proper names of the sniper rifles are the 99C/D-S2 Anti-Materiel Sniper Rifle Systems, but we don't use that. The full name of a weapon is not necessarily the name it should be referred by. Wikipedia tends to just use the designation and weapon type. M90 Shotgun is a fine title, but if you want to be maximum specific, say "M90 Mks. I-III CAWS." -The Dark Lord Azathoth 19:54, 4 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Where have you seen it referred to as the M90 Close Assault Weapons System? --Justin Time 19:56, 4 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Art of Halo, pg. 106. -The Dark Lord Azathoth 13:16, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Assault Shotgun??/Full Auto
I do not remember reading it being called this in any Halo game manual or in any official game script. Please change it to what it really is. Change the article name to M90 Shotgun. There is an Assault Rifle, but no Assault Shotgun in Halo.

Also the M90 mk.1 was full auto, so please stop editing that out. Test it yourself if you still own a copy of Halo CE. Just because no one used it full auto because it was slow and imprecise does not mean that it wasnt. Justin Time

Full automatic would mean that you don't have to pump the forearm between shots.--Caboose&#39;s Brother 17:27, 19 February 2011 (EST)

Difference between Mk.I and Mk.II
Why the Mk.I btween the M90 and Shotgun?--Ryanngreenday 08:45, 30 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I dunno, though I have always reffered to the Halo:CE M90 as the Mk. I and the Halo 2 M90 as the Mk. II.CommanderTony

I like the new weapon Layout guys, a lot easier to read and more colorful.--Ryanman 5:45, 13 December 2006

I THINK the Mk means Mark, and uh... I've lost where I was going with this... --<font color="#D3D3D3">B <font color="#A9A9A9">le <font color="#808080">mo http://www.wikia.com/skins/common/progress-wheel.gif <font color="#A9A9A9">TALK • <font color="A9A9A9">CONTRIBUTIONS 04:08, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Pellets in Halo 2
What's with the 3-10, usually 6 or 7? I've never seen it shoot 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, or 10; always 8.  Guesty - Persony - Thingy  23:18, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Have you ever actually tested this out? If you take the shotgun and fire it a surface where bullet holes show up well (e.g. the bases on Beaver Creek), you can see that the shotgun actually does fire a random number of pellets per shot. I have seen it fire as few as 3 and as many as 10, though the average is about 6 or 7. As with anything involving statistics, you need a decent sample size, so don't just fire once at a wall. In any case, the fact of the matter is that the Halo 2 shotgun fires a random number of pellets per shot, and I'm not the only one that has made this observation. If you or anyone wishes to discuss this further, I post at HBO under the moniker "Gravemind." 68.47.1.10 22:55, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

I have a question...
How many pellets are shot from the shotgun in Halo 1?--SWME 15:51, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

I think it always fires a random number of pellets which is over 8.If you mean how much ammo it has in halo 1, it is written in the article page. Spartan-G007 XBL gamertag:SpartanG007

In Halo 1, it fires fifteen pellets every shot. I've tested this repeatedly and have found no variation in the number of pellets. However, in Halo 2, it fires a random number of pellets: 3 to 10, averaging 6 or 7. I never got to fully test the Halo 3 shotgun though, but I'll get around to it ASAP once the game comes out. Rtas Vadumee 10:32, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

I think it's just that the halo 2 shotgun doesn't fire "spread out" sometimes. What I mean is that maybe two or more bullets fire at the same place sometimes.--<font color="LightGrey">Sp <font color="DarkGray">art <font color="Gray">an- <font color="Black">781  CommCSV 10:40, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Silent Rounds on Halo: PC
I've read that the rounds are silent when continuously fired on Halo:PC. However, I have tested this out on multiplayer and each round has a firing sound.

I've tested this as well, and each round has a firing sound for me as well. Baryon15 16:11, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Why shotgun blasts don't kill Brutes easily
This is to FUGLY. Brutes are far more resistant to projectile weapons than either a Spartan or an Elite. To prove this, amplify the effect by activating the Tilt skull. It is not because the shotgun has less power in Campaign mode. Smoke My pageMy talkMy Editcount 18:55, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Range
I corrected the range of the Shotgun models

Hmmm considering its a long bareled shotgun you'd think the pattern would be alot tighter than it is and making it effective a a bit longer ranges maybe 5yards or so; I guess its just got a wierd brass. also its strange that it uses 15 pellets rather than 9 buckshot, but I'm used to 12 gauge not 8 gauge. also alot of combat shotguns today use detachable box magizines rather than a tube, for ease of reloading. this shotgun seams so strange compaired to our current shotgun technology.Laghing rabt

Why is there a Known User
I wounder why someone put down a Known User Section? The M90 is One of the Four Standed Weapons used by the Marines.(Assault Rifle, Battle Rifle, SMG, M90 Shotgun) If there should be a known user page of who uses a weapon, it should be the Sniper.

What happened?
there was a bit in the trivia section about the fact a tube-fed pump-action shotgun in 2550. were did it go? this was valid information considering that semi-autos are all the rage in todays militaries and some are detatchable mag or even full auto. im putting it back. if you disagree, say so.

Gunnery-sergeant Maiar 13:19, 15 May 2009 (UTC)


 * What militaries? <font color="#666666">Smoke  13:27, 15 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Only a few of today's militaries employ Semi-Automatic Shotguns in their arsenal, such as the America and Britain with the M1014.

...I hate it when i realise i may have been missinformed. iether way semi's would easily be superior to pumps but (surprise surprise) bungie screwed realism for gameplay purpouses. Maiar 13:51, 16 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Or(this is thinking in-universe), the UNSC favors reliability over other things, since they deploy troops worlds away, and can't worry about stuff like that. Its similar to the MA5, on its page, it says that its a reliable gun, but is inaccurate.  Many armies still use pump action shotguns because of their reliability, durability, their simplicity, and their size.  Arcdash 21:32, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

Range
Someone needs to change the range in the info box from 40 meters to 10 meters since that is the shotguns true range.

Omgsauce 01:40, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

False. The shotgun in Halo:CE could land a pellet at well over 100m. StalkerGrunt117 20:52, April 9, 2010 (UTC)

Yes, but thats ONLY Halo CE, Halo 2 and 3 have a range of 10 meters or less.Omgsauce 22:39, April 11, 2010 (UTC)

Recoil
The article states that the UNSC would need advancement to lessen the shotguns recoil because it was reported fairly light. This is wrong on multiple counts.

1. 8-guage shotguns only have 15% more muzzle energy than 12-guage shotguns. That's right, 15%. It fires heavier shells, but still, only 15%. The fact that is a magnum shell merely means you have to compare it to a 12-guage magnum. With the known muzzle energy of a 12-guage magnum and the known muzzle velocity of the soellcraft 8-guage (~400m/s) I can tell you this: The shotgun fires 15 shots, each of which has an estimated mass of 4.8g, and with a muzzle velocity of ~400m/s this means a momentum of ~2n*s, and all together that makes for a total recoil impulse of ~30n*s. My 12-guage has an impulse of 25n*s, the increase is only 20%.

2. The shotgun is HEAVY. It wieghs in at 5.4kg (M90A) while my shotgun, a Benelli M3, wieghs in at 3.55. Do the math, that means it weighs 52% more. The mass of the weapon greatly lessens the recoil, and that's a big difference.

3. Put these together. The shotgun has only 20% greater impulse, but 52% greater mass. The M90A has a recoil energy of 83j, the benelli M3, my shotgun, has a recoil energy of 87j. Translation: The M90A has less recoil than a modern shotgun, from its weight alone . '''No dampener and no advancement required. '''On top of that, the recoil of my shotgun isn't that bad, so the M90A can't be either. Avianmosquito 19:35, April 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * Also depends on the person, someone with a slighty build might find the recoil harder to deal with than someone with a husky build. It is the future, there might be differances in production and pellet shape. Material as well, such as steel versus depleted uranium. Also, the shotguns barrel lenghts. Amount of powder in the shells and the type of powder. All these varibles makes comprisoon of the M3 and the M90 difficult. (P.S. I've fired the M3 as well, great gun). 80.png  El Ammo Bandito, "¡Para todas sus necesidades destructivas!"  19:50, April 9, 2010 (UTC)

1. Yes, but there are marines, they have standards. You can't really compare random people off the streets to marines. Somewhone of lesser build probably won't make it into the marines, and if they do, they at least won't be using a shotgun.

2. Shape doesn't matter, mass does. We already know the mass of the pellets from the known muzzle energy and velocity.

3. The barrel length does not affect recoil.

There are no factors that I have not taken into account. We know the energy and the velocity, therefore we know the mass. We know the mass and the velocity, therefore we know the momentum. We know the momentum and the mass of the weapon, therefore we know the recoil. It's basic physics, and it's quite simple. Avianmosquito 20:33, April 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes the Marines have standerds, but even within then their are different builds, unless everyone was a clone. Second shape of the pellet does matter, due to the way in bounces withen the barrel and how it reacts with air withen the barrel. As more the barrel, a longer barrel retains the gasses longer, causeing more recoild, versis a shorter barrel, which will allow the gasses to vent faster. Also, ehat about the amount of powder and type in the shells? If the M90 shells have more powder, that will cause more recoil. 80.png  El Ammo Bandito, "¡Para todas sus necesidades destructivas!"  20:45, April 9, 2010 (UTC)

Time for another correction list, I guess.

1. True, but this doesn't matter, because of what I have already said.

2. This still does not affect recoil directly. It can affect the velocity of the pellets, but that's already covered.

3. This does not affect recoil. Same reason as #2.

4. This does not affect recoil significantly. The powder's contribution is more momentum to the bullet. Only about half of the powder is actually propelled down the barrel, it doesn't mave but a few grams of mass, and it moves by far slower. It's a small percentage, don't sweat it.

5. Regarding #2, #3 and #4, these only affect recoil due to how they affect the velocity of the bullet, NOTHING ELSE, and we already know the end result here, so who really cares? Don't worry about the mechanism here, the result is all that matters in recoil, and the result speaks quite clearly so long as you forget this vain attempt to complicate the issue. It's basic, highschool physics, Newton's 3rd law to be specific, you can handle it within a second without so much as a pencil for aid, why ruin that? Avianmosquito 23:56, April 12, 2010 (UTC)

M90A slam-fire capable?
When I shoot the M90A, I've noticed that right after you pull RT on the controller after you've shot a shell, as soon as your character racks the pump all the way back s/he shoots another round. Could the M90A be capable of slam-firing? Bottletopman 07:56, April 21, 2010 (UTC)

I don't know, but I've noticed to. Blahmarrow 03:14, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

Incorrect Image
Hey the current image used for the M90 series of shotguns is the M45 TS. Can someone replace it with the M90 shotgun? Bottletopman 06:50, April 29, 2010 (UTC)

Mk I and Mk I are fanon names?
Wow, I really had no idea. I thought they were called like that in a book or something like that.Ketsumaye 15:05, September 18, 2010 (UTC)

Real-World Modern Weapon Similarities
It just occurred to me that the M90 CAWS Shotgun (and also the M45 Tactical Shotgun) have one or more real-world counterparts. I think both shotguns from H3 and HR look very similar to the Benelli M3 Benelli M3 Super 90 or the Benelli M4 Super 90 shotguns. The only difference is, I believe, that both Benelli shotguns load shotguns underneath, whereas the M90 CAWS and, if I'm not mistaken, the M45 Tactical Shotgun have their shells loaded into a breech above on the top. Does anyone agree see this resemblance? --Xamikaze330 18:46, 18 November 2011 (EST)Xamikaze330


 * Naw, they look way too long and thin. Tuckerscreator (<font color="#008000">stalk ) 18:52, 18 November 2011 (EST)


 * Maybe so, but you have to admit they do look very similar, especially if one were to put the two together. Imagine it, visualize it, and then think about it. I would say they are both similar regardless. And I forgot in my preliminary analysis that I think this little bit of information should be added to the Trivia section in the article. Why should it not? --Xamikaze330 20:52, 18 November 2011 (EST)Xamikaze330