Talk:Covenant/Archive 1

Making an individual article for covenant religion?
I think that making an artice that chiefly explains the religion of the covenant would be a better idea, cause in a way this article that its currently on should only describe its political nature and history.....and NOT its religious one, and should be seperated, similar to that of the covenant language.

Factual Content Disupted + More...

 * I'm disputing who knows the location of the Covenant? Also I propose removal of the first picture in the article. I strongly suspect it's a fan creation. Sorry if I'm pissing off a lot of you. =) Cheers, RelentlessRogue 19:53, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The top picture looks like it came from the website http://www.covenant-clan.co.uk/ i think. There's a lot of good pictures and infomation on it. --Climax Viod 20:54, 11 August 2006 (UTC)


 * The picture needs to go but with what should it be replaced?  Is there some kind of Covenant logo or banner we could use?   Cause Covenant is a bunch of Aliens putting up  a cool picture of a bunch of Elites doesn't really cover it cause that's just one race. --210.174.41.209 13:48, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
 * High Charity? --Dragonclaws 04:32, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm not really sure about the main picture but, I think in some place, the Elite skull from the Legiondary insignia should be somewhere.--prophit of war 21:35, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Who cares if the pic is fan-made or not? If it's an accurate, and more importantly, cool looking pic then who cares? And another thing, In Halo 2, the cut scene at the beginning, when it shows High Charity, I believe it says that High Charity is in the Orion Arm. -- Carbine

Move Weapons out
The weapons section should be moved to Covenant Weapons with a main article here type link. That way this page won't be so crazy. --210.174.41.209 13:38, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

History

 * Should the 'age of expansion' be deleted from the history section? It doesn't appear in the table found in the articles about the ages -J.f
 * Also the tables in the other articles about covenant history place the age of reconciliation after the age of doubt. Shouldn't it come after the age of discovery? J.f
 * I think we should create a whole new article for the Age of Expainsion. It is part of the Covenant's history, because I think just removing it from the main Covenant article is just lazy --Black Mercy 21:45, 30 September 2006
 * 'age of expansion' is another name for "Age of Conversion".  That is why it isn't on the Template:Ages table. -- John117 06:01, 1 October 2006 (UTC


 * If we do that, could we put "Age of Conversion/Age of Expansion" or could we just metion it in the article? -- Black Mercy 13:01, 1 October 2006

Naming Convention

 * Note: Now that the pages have been moved, the conversation below has been moved to this thread from the Talk: Main Page --Esemono 01:38, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Should the articles for the Covenant species be moved to their real names (Grunt to Unggoy)? My fear is that people would have trouble understanding, but Bungie is increasing their usage of the names. Thoughts? --Dragonclaws 06:42, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Leave it the way it is, a great man once said the Japanese call themselves the Nihongin yet we still call them the Japanese.--220.99.144.216 06:36, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I propose a compromise. I would think it to be most "correct" to put information about Grunts on the "Unggoy" page because that is their official name, but anyone who doesnt get that deep into Halo wouldnt understand it. Maybe we should consider naming their pages with both- such as Grunts (The Unggoy) or Unggoy "Grunts" or something like that. -ED 01:57, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I like the one with brackets, Grunts (The Unggoy)--Esemono 02:41, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Quote marks don't seem appropriate, and I see no reason to use "the" in one race name and not the other. "Unggoy (Grunts)" or "Grunts (Unggoy)" sounds good to me. --Dragonclaws 06:35, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I vote for Grunts (Unggoy)! --Esemono 13:12, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Heres an idea, just put the name we the humans call them next to a slash bith their real name. Like this Grunt/Unggoy.--prophit of war 21:42, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm rethinking the issue. My rejection of my earlier Nihonjin argument is detailed here. --Dragonc laws (talk ) 20:50, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

PIcture under Society...
Shouldnt be there....--JohnSpartan117 14:26, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Nevermind, someone changed it.--JohnSpartan117 02:14, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Nice Ship Template
We need to get one for the UNSC--JohnSpartan117 23:49, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Lack of Covenant Battlenet Article
It's missing... -- Black Mercy 00:10, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Battlenet -ED 00:12, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Unit
Remove the part of the article about Covenant having currency. -- Yamanba 14:31, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Nothing has been said wither way on this subject. -ED 00:33, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Elites
Since the Elites arent in the Covenant anymore, should they be on this page still? The popular speculation is that not all the Elites left the Covenant because would you realy want to such an excelent foeMister chief 22:23, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

The Elites are in the Covenant throughout most of our glimpses of the Halo Universe. Even if they've all left the Covenant by Halo 3, they still count as one of the original races. --Dragonc laws (talk ) 23:33, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Covenant Prophecy
Read and compare the Book of Daniel, chapter 11 (NIV Bible) - very interisting.

My Site
My site might help clear up some things on the Covenant but its mostly about hunters Huntermikexx 10:36, 12 April 2007 (UTC) halo hunter

CIC
Shouldn't Truth be C.I.C. because he can ultimately overide any event or decision of the covenant, say like the Arbiter's death perhaps. Fork 01:30, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Vehicle names
Why does the covenant name most of their vehicles after a spiritual being?--0nyx Sp1k3r 21:38, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

It's a theme. Think about this: Pelican, Warthog, Scorpion, Mongoose, Albatross. What do they all have in common? --Fir st S erg eant Dig ipa td ''(My Talk ) (My Adventures ) (Happy Birthday )

Im sorry I know it's like a theme but why those names and what does the covenant have anything to do with them.I thought there might be a story behind it. After all aliens and ghosts don't have much in common.--0nyx Sp1k3r 19:59, 27 April 2007 (UTC)BLARG!

Well, the Covenant are very religious and believe in a Great Journey, sort of like a Heaven, and ghosts or spirits tend to be associated with Heaven or the "Other World", if you think it about it, it all links together. just because they are aliens doesn't mean they don't believe in ghosts also...-- Joshua 029 16:25, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

What kind of speratual being is a wraith,porwler or chopper.Mister chief 22:27, 27 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, a wraith is sort of a ghost (e.g. the Ringwraiths of Lord of the Rings). The Brute vehicles don't fit the pattern, so maybe it's an Elite thing. --<font color="#000000">Dragon<font color="#FF0000">c laws (<font color="#000000">talk ) 23:37, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

immunity to halo
Halo kills all lifeforms capable of being infected by the flood. And most of the covenent loyalists cannot be affected by flood. The drones do not have enough calceim to be infected. jackles cant because their bones are hollow. Brutes probly can but the brutes are willing to die to rid their jealusy of elites.

what about the prophets. without them, psh theres no covenent65.24.73.189 01:29, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Without the Prophets there is no covenant, but I doubt Truth would have killed himself, how he would have avoided alpha halo or delta halo's firing I have no clue, but I'm sure he had a plan of some sort. Either that, or he is as crazy as he seems.--Kre &#39;Nunumee 17:24, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Technology/Society
The covenant appears slightly like the Goa'uld in Stargate SG-1 in that they are technologically a scavenger group. Not inventing their own technology, but rather finding/taking and modifying existing tech to suit their purposes. No that this is particularly notable, there are many groups like this (especially among antagonists) in Sci-fi. 68.199.6.138 05:52, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Ha Ha. Yeah, the flood are the Replicators, the Covenant are the goa'uld, the forerunners are the Ancients, and the UNSC is Stargate Command. Odd ain't

That's weird(I'm a Stargate fan). But the Flood, I'd say, is more powerful.

Its just a coincidence if you ask me, its just a convenient plot style, good guys attacked by bad guys, something thats worse than either one combined joins in, and the main hero saves the planet/galaxy/universe--Kre &#39;Nunumee 17:28, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

edits
I edited the article to reflect the fact that the Elties are no longer part of the Covenant, and cleared up a few minor things. Did anyone else notice that there were two paragraphs on the Scarab? I deleted one, and added its information to the other  Kora ‘Morhekee   The Battle-Net   My Conquests.  22:13, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Wait
Where do we get that it's an empire? Until next time, respect them Grunts. This is M  ø  u  s  e, squeaking out! 21:42, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Introduction quote
I suggest that we change the introductory quote, i don't know about you guys but "no enemy has ever whistood our might" sounds cliché to me.. so i propose that we change it to the first communication ever recieved by the covenant : "Your destruction is the will of the gods, and we are their instruments" --Ravenshaw123 03:22, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

SecondedInnerRayg 03:37, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Agreed--Kre &#39;Nunumee 17:29, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Ships
It could probably be removed to another page, and replaced by a more general overview of the Covenant Military. Does anyone disagree?  Specops306 ,  Kora 'Morhek  23:46, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

End of covenant
Can I write about the covenant's end??

la pikachu Clap 3 times, spin around and say the person you want to be with forever, post this on 7 pages. On this Saturday that person will realize how much you mean to them... you don't do this... that person will think the opposite and never want to see your face again! just try!!!


 * Please, keep the chain phrases out of here. If its an attempt at a sig, make it shorter and include a link to your userpage, after you sign in. If you don't want to, then just write what you want to ask or say, and leave out the clapping part.
 * And as to the Covenant, there's no proof that its utterly destroyed. After Halo 3, the Arbiter and Ship Master sounded pretty concerned about their homeworld, and I really doubt everyone just went home and made nice.  Specops306 ,  Kora 'Morhek  02:09, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

I've been thinking about that myself, there were only a hand full of Sangheili ships, and the Brutes outnumbered them 3-1, so its probably just the fleet of High Charity, not every Covenant ship across the galaxy. The ones at the Covenant's homeworlds probably dont even know about the Great Schism.--Kre &#39;Nunumee 18:00, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Female Covenant?
Are their any female Covenant? Or what? Ciphe 13:12, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Most,if not all, live on each species homeworlds, however some more than likely live on High Charity.Spartan 112 00:53, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, female Jackals fight in the Covenant military. I don't think any female Elites or Brute are allowed, or that female Hunters even exist. Female Grunts and Drone Queens serve as leaders, so they don't have to fight. Female Prophets have even been hierarchs. So, yes, there are female Covenant. Plenty.  Specops306 ,  Kora 'Morhek  00:51, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

I dont exactly think that there are female or male hunters as you know that they're made up of a colony of eels, and so I think that they might have both female and male characteristics--XXRaiderXx 05:05, 7 June 2008 (UTC)xXRaiderXxXXRaiderXx 05:05, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

"Hard to tell, but me female"

Grunt's line from Halo 2

Capt. Daget J. Sparrow 05:05, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

WTF is this ship?
does anyone know what this is? a frigate? a distroyer? looks too small to be a capital ship (compaired to those things I think are boarding crafts boarding crafts).

What ship? You haven't provided a picture, or a link. -- Specops306 ,  Kora 'Morhek  03:03, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

lol, sry. http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn145/blackout131/wtf.jpg

nvm, i found out. it is just a fan creation.

Yep, that's apparently a fanon Covenant dreadnaught. A good design, but not canon. --  Councillor  Specops306  -  Kora   'Morhek  23:57, 2 June 2008 (UTC)


 * No it's a Covenant Destroyer. I saw the artwork a while back on some website. --<font color="MidnightBlue">Councilor Εw C 'Dnaudee <font color="Purple">Battle Net<font color="Green"> My Editcount 07:24, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

I was wondering what happened to that picture. I had assumed it was removed for it not being canon. Also where was it found? Because along time ago I saw it on this exact wiki. Even if it's not canon, it still looks cool(that doesn't mean non-canon pics, articles, etc. should be on this wiki).Greatleader 15:31, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

question
Why Don't the Covies Just let the Humans join the Covenant? We would make good allies. User:Wizzerd With an Energy Sword 8 June 2009

Humans are an affront to Covenant religion, read 'conversations from across the galaxy' in the Halo 2 game.--Kre &#39;Nunumee 18:03, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

-Thank you for answering, that helps a lot. User:Wizzerd With an Energy Sword 5:55 A.M. (EST), 5 November 2009

Remembering from Halo: Contact Harvest, the Prophets discovered that humans were descended from the Forerunner, and this meant that their religeon was effectively wrong. So, in order to safeguard The Covenant social order and maintain their power over it, the Prophets ordered the complete extermination of Humanity.

Capt. Daget J. Sparrow 05:03, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

And besides, the UNSC would probably try to negotiate with the Covenant to get some kind of Emissions Trading Scheme deal with them, which would piss them off. Or, they would invite the Prophet of Truth to Copenhagen to discuss the environment, only to have Truth say that Earth is one of the millions of Covenant planets, and that they can't be bothered to treat them specially, which would annoy some random dolphin, and the humans and the random dolphin would start fighting the Covenant. As expected.

Unitedblah16:19, 19 December 2009 (AEST)

Trivia Overhaul
I think the Trivia section needs an overhaul. Much of the trivia is not really relevant, for example the Elites armour details and Grunts joining out of fear of invasion. These would be more applicable in their relevant sections Herrresjonny 16:52, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Symbol?
Shouldn't this page have the covenant symbol like the UNSC page has their's? It's seen in Halo Wars when there's an open base slot and by the covenant commanders in pre-game commander selection. If it's found, I suggest it be put above the stats summary and the high charity pic be moved below the stats summary. --Jaguartalon 03:44, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Well I uploaded a covenant symbol screencap I made. Put it above the info box, it's not perfect size though. I put the high charity pic below the info box. --Jaguartalon 01:21, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

nevermind, people are revert-happy. --Jaguartalon 01:29, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Fascism?
"It can be thought that they are Fascists because one party controls every part of the goverment, and use militarilism. This could be another way the Human-Covenant War was like World War II."

- Unknown user

I removed this section from the article, since it seemed too speculative to keep. But now that I think about it, and do a little research, the governmental system used by the Covenant does seem extremely fascist in nature. From wikipedia:

"Fascism is a radical and authoritarian nationalist political ideology.[1][2][3][4] Fascism is also a corporatist economic ideology.[5] Fascists advocate the creation of a single-party state.[6] Fascists believe that nations and races are in perpetual conflict whereby only the strong can survive by being healthy, vital, and by asserting themselves in combat against the weak.[7] Fascist governments forbid and suppress criticism and opposition to the government and the fascist movement.[8] Fascism opposes class conflict and blames capitalist liberal democracies for creating class conflict and in turn blames communists for exploiting class conflict.[9] No common and concise definition exists for fascism and historians and political scientists often disagree on what a concise definition would consist of.[10]"

The point about "class conflict" in particular seems relevant, given the multi-species nature of the Covenant. -- ' Administrator  Specops306  -  Qur'a 'Morhek ''  Honour Light Your Way! ''' 04:35, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Covenant Military
Sorry people, but I had to change a couple on lines on a “Covenant Military” paragraph. Those lines said, with no room for questioning, that the Covenant Ground Forges OFTEN retreated to their ships to glaze the planet. It also said the UNSC Marines were more skilled, and that victories on the ground were normal.

To me this is completely insane. I know for sure that everyone of you has read the books, and they clearly let the reader know how ridiculously ineffective the marines are against Covenant ground forces. The Spartans made the difference in every scenario, and in every scenario that they were absent, the Marines loosed (with a couple of exceptions).

For example:

-At Halo Uprising the Covenant RAPED the Marines (who where the majority in this case). -In Reach when Fred and Blue Team go to the Ground the first wave of the Covenant had completely obliterated the UNSC ground forces in that area. -In Signa Octanus the city was just lost to the Marines; the Spartans had to freaking blow it up. -Sam was killed with relative ease. -Grace and other surviving Spartans were abused in First Strike

And I could just go on… So lets stay clear people, the Covenant are better than the UNSC in EVERY respect. Yes, the difference in general ability is larger when we talk about Covenant Navy, but in Ground Operations they are still better. Heck, the Elites are barely weaker then the SPARTANS.


 * It's the Elites, Hunters, and Brutes that provide the strength - all others are cannon fodder, at least in the games. I've only read one of the books (Fall of Reach), so I'm not really up to speed on the battles that take place there, or their depictions of the lesser species.  Smoke Sound off! 05:30, 6 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Just to add up; Jackals are often seen as Support class due to their ability to hold ground with their Personal Shields and also their superior marksmanship. Grunts, like Smoke said, are the cannon fodders of the Covenant.-- 4 scen  05:51, 6 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, fine, Grunts are cannon fodder that i will accept as true, but from that to " It may be noted that even though their technology is far more superior than the Human's and their numbers are much larger as well, as ground warriors the Covenant are much less capable and are often defeated, at which point they usually retreat to space and glass the planet." is insane! You telling me that an Elite cannot finish 4 marines by itself? This HAS to be changed, because that statemante does not do justice to the Covenant at all. I just want one example where the UNSC marines won without the aid of the SPARTANS.  Darkrathamantis 


 * Hell no, Elites generally wipe the floor with Marines. Even the least experienced of their warriors are trouble for Marines. Thing is, there aren't very many of them, Hunters, or Brutes. Grunts make up the bulk of the Covenant military. That is probably why the author put that in the article.  Smoke Sound off! 04:13, 8 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Thank you for that fast reply, but don't you think then that it has to be straighten up? That sole line makes the Covenant look terribly bad. Also, it's not like the Marines have fun with the Grunts either, for as stupid as they are, the Grunts have proven to be mighty enemies to the Marines (though I'll admit they are weaker and less skilled).  Darkrathamantis 


 * Grunts usually get slaughtered by Marines unless they are accompanied by Elites or Brutes. An Elite or Brute isn't always available, and Jackals don't fare much better (it's usually only one or two of them in a lance, if they happen to be leading the Grunts, and if there are several Marines around flanking the Jackals, they don't stand too much of a chance either). Their lack of energy shielding makes them vulnerable to UNSC weapons. The UNSC does fare better in ground combat. Space is a totally different story, however, and most articles make note of that.


 * Personally, I'd remove it completely, as it is an opinion.  Smoke Sound off! 04:34, 8 June 2009 (UTC)


 * To be honest I cannot say anything about the grunts anymore, I guess I will have to go read the books again. But I am not convinced by your last argument. I have never felt like the Grunts are much weaker than the marines, never in the game or the books. That is of course my opinion.
 * Still I too would delete that specific commentary, or really say things how they are (at least more accurately), like:
 * “The Covenant ground forces are mainly composed by Grunts, whom are used as cannon fodder and usually weaker than the UNSC ground forces. However the other species, though less in number, fare much better than the UNSC in combat situations. Still, if a SPARTAN is around during battle, the Covenant generally loose.”
 * Or something like that.  Darkrathamantis 
 * Sorry peoples, but when i play Halo and Halo 2 on easy (because i suck >_<), i almost ALWAYS encounter elites leading grunts. Even when there is only grunts, the grunts have enough of themselves to actually through themselves into the line of fire as stated in the book The Fall of Reach (when it says that the grunts charged there way through the mines to allow the other Covenant forces to advance). Even if a marine kills 6 Grunts, who cares? The enemy would have 12 more Grunts ready to use against that single marine. Oh, and Jackals do not normally get slaughtered by marines. And Jackals being flanked? I haven't seen that in the books or the games, but i guess it could happen sometimes.  Unitedblah 

Population
Not sure where to ask this, but can someone help me figure out and do the math for Covenant population pre and post war, casualties, number of suspected planets, etc. Also, something that might fit in the article is that humanity hass discovered terraforming, yet it seems the Covenant have not.


 * To do that, we'd need to know each species' birth and death rates, the number of colonies they have, and so on. We know next to nothing about Covenant infrastructure, other than its larger than the UNSC - exactly how much so is just guesswork. And with the terraforming piece, absence of proof is not proof of absence - just because we haven't seen a terraformed Covenant world doesn't mean they don't exist. And how would we know, without it being stated? Presumably, Reach was terraformed, and that looked very Earth-like. --  Administrator  Specops306  -  Qur'a 'Morhek   Honour Light Your Way!  04:34, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Technically the Covenant was capable of terraforming, in the way of glassing, which was altering the planets surface and atmosphere. But we can assume that the Forerunners had terraforming and thus the Covenant would have had at least limited capabilities.--Kre &#39;Nunumee 17:17, 28 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Turning a planet into glass is the opposite of terraforming. Terra means "Earth", so "terraforming" means "[to make something] Earth-like".--  Fore  run  ner  18:16, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

True, it was probably more of a joke, but the bulkyish part of the point remains, theoretically.--Kre &#39;Nunumee 12:02, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Trivia.
Okay, in the trivia section, there is a note about the brutes pummeling themselves back to preindustrial, but I don't think that shoul dbe mentioned in here, as it is mentioned in the brute specific page. We are dropping into Hell troopers, cause you forgot to pray to God! 23:40, September 20, 2009 (UTC)

Heights and Weights
I went through and corrected their inaccurate heights and weights to their correct ones stated in the Encyclopedia. You're welcome. --Kluutak 15:52, December 2, 2009 (UTC)


 * The former heights are based on previous sources. Remember that the Encyclopedia has made numerous errors with details such as height and what planet they come from. --  Fore  run  ner  16:02, December 2, 2009 (UTC)

End of the Covenant?
This article states that the Covenant dissolved in 2553. However, there is no canonical reference to this. It seems likely to me that the Covenant did NOT dissolve. Rather, in a more likely scenario, the Brutes would seize power from the last of the Prophets and the Elites at home (Probably glassing Sanghelios with whatever remains of the Home Fleet) and continue the subjugation of the non-Elite races of the Covenant. The Separatist fleet, after the battle with the Brute fleet over the ark, if it still existed, would then have to head back to the Covenant homeworlds and try to convince the other races that 3000 years of established religion is entirely lies.

Anyway, my situation AND the assumption that the Great Schism meant the dissolution of the Covenant are both SPECULATION. I would rewrite the article, but I have a final in 8 hours and I need some frakkin sleep. -Nutarama 05:05, December 11, 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, the Covenant IS a Non-Aggression Pact between all the species, so because of the all out civil war, it may have been considered the end of the Covenant, as the Pact was broken. -Unitedblah-15:29, December 19, 2009 (AEST)

Character Homeworlds
I've been wondering why is the species' homeworld always marked as every character's homeworld? Ie. for all Sangheili it's Sanghelios, for Grunts it's Balaho, etc. However, we know that the Covenant have colonies. Probably a lot more than the humans. And then of course, there's High Charity. So why mark the species' homeworld for every character when we don't know it? It's like saying every human character is from Earth. Which no one does, so I wonder why is it done with Covenant characters. Basically the same problem as with Slipspace velocities of different types of ships. When we have insufficient knowledge, we shouldn't claim anything to be factual.--<font color="MidnightBlue">Jugus (<font color="Gray">Talk  | <font color="Gray">Contribs ) 07:25, December 17, 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmm... remove them? I would say go!<font color="#5D8AA8">外<font color="#9BDDFF">国 人 (<font color="#5D8AA8">7alk ) 00:42, December 23, 2009 (UTC)

Hey?!
The Halo Legends era icon is missing up there, why?