Talk:Covenant destroyer

38 Light Years an Hour?
The fastest human ship at the time went 2.62 light years a day, in Slipstream Space! You can't go over light speed in normal space, so the maximum speed in space for the destroyer cannot be accurate. Where did that information come from?--Fluffball Gato 23:38, November 30, 2009 (UTC)
 * An obvious error. We don't know how fast individual ships are.--Jugus 23:43, November 30, 2009 (UTC)
 * Alright... That seemed odd.--Fluffball Gato 23:49, November 30, 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I just checked the references. There is no mention of speed.--Fluffball Gato 00:00, December 1, 2009 (UTC)
 * In fact, all we know is the speed of the Bloodied Spirit, and that may or may not represent the speed of all Covenant Destroyers. It was really fast, 912ly/day, even for a Covenant ship, but it may be an exception. So it shouldn't be assumed that all Covenant ships are that fast.--Jugus 00:04, December 1, 2009 (UTC)
 * Agreed. I glad it will be gone, now. --Fluffball Gato 00:18, December 1, 2009 (UTC)

Unnamed Subject
How can a Covenant Destroyer be 1500 meters long if it says in Halo fall of reach on page 146 chapter 17 a covenant destroyer is a third as massive as a UNSC destroyer.

Perhaps the destroyer from Fall or Reach and the Destroyers from Ghost of Onyx are different classes of destroyer, like CAR or CPV. It mentions in Ghost of Onyx that the destroyer have shuttle bays and Spirit Dropships.

I deleted the picture of the so-called Covenant destroyer - as far as i can recall, it was from someone's CGI video clip with completely original equipment. So its not canon, and never was. Honour Light Your Way -   Kora ‘Morhek   The Battle-Net  My Conquests.  00:06, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

The aforementioned image is clearly not canon, but despite multiple deletions, it is always re-posted. Some action against this would be welcome. Spartan 144 "Nicholas" 22:19, 14 June 2008 (UTC-8)

I think you are right about being 2 different destroyers because on page 290 in halo ghosts of onyx it talks about 2 covenant heavy destroyers so I think the 1500 meter destroyer is really a heavy destroyer. So this page about the covenant destroyer should be change to heavy covenant destroyer and not covenant destroyer.

If we changed this page to Heavy Covenant Destroyer, someone would have to do a whole new page on the regular destroyer and there really isn't much difference between the two anyway. Besides, alot of the books don't remain in canon with the games anyway.

correction
FoR actually says that the covenant destroyer was a third Italic textagainItalic text as large as the Iroquois. so if the Iroquois was 1000m long, the destroyer would have been 333m long.

No, no, no. A UNSC destroyer is only seven meters longer then a UNSC frigate, which at 483 meters, this means that the Iroquois comes in at only 492 meters, and this would put a destroyer at about 175 meters. And in the trivia how is it known that that ship was a Destroyer? All Serina says is Covenant ship straight ahead or something like that All Under Heaven

Curious
Despite all the previous measurements mentioned above, that still doesn't explain why this destroyer in the Halo Wars game cut-scene is slightly bigger than the 2500+ Spirit of Fire. That's things almost twice as big as a Cruiser yet classified a Destroyer. I thought it might even be a Reverence Class Ship cause it looks to be over 2500 meters and the Reverence is about 3000. But to call it a destroyer, Im sorry Ensemble, you guys dropped the ball, probably as you ran out the closing doors and tried to finish the game before you got nothing at all.

It really is sad too that all this because someone didn't get facts straight when trying to wrap the game up. If they had typed Cruiser instead we wouldn't be having this conversation cause the game video clips never call it a Destroyer, only some guy who typed it in on the menus and timeline stuff.

The terms for military ships are not lost on Bungie, your ships usually range smallest to biggest with these names, Corvette, Frigate, Destroyer, Battle-cruiser, Battleship, Carrier, Supercarrier. If the Assault Carrier is the biggest and is larger than the Spirit of Fire, and the Covenant Cruiser (their battles-cruiser) is smaller than Spirit of FIre, that means the one in the Cut-Scene is in between there, too big for the other smaller classes. The measurements just don't match what I saw in the game. Maybe its a Super Duper Destroyer? Or a SuperCruiser.I still think a Reverence Class matches that in game ship.


 * Either Ensemble have given it the wrong classification, or we've got the size of the Spirit of Fire wrong. Since the SoF's length comes from an interview with Graeme Devine, and accuracy can be difficult under fire from reporters, my guess would be the latter. Or it may be a Covenant Heavy Destroyer, briefly mentioned in First Strike I believe. I do note, however, that the books claim that Destroyers bear more than a passing resemblence to Carriers, the only noticable difference being size - so if it does eventuate to be a Carrier instead of a Destroyer, we may end up retaining the picture.


 * And as far as I know, the actual meanings of Hull Classification Symbol refer to roles rather than sizes. A Destroyer is meant as an escort. A frigate is a light picket, cruiser is a fast warship, etc. I'm not sure, but I'm pretty sure some modern Cruisers are as large as Frigates. Its the use to which they are put that defines their class.--  Administrator  Specops306  -  Qur'a 'Morhek   Honour Light Your Way!  09:09, 25 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, that would be right. It doesn't matter how large a ship is; it only matters what they're built for and what they're used for. Of course frigates can be bigger than carriers - it's just not usually done because with our current technology, it would be impractical. The 888th Avatar  (Talk) 09:14, 25 March 2009 (UTC)


 * This still doesn't explain why the Spirit of Fire is 2500 meters and the Destroyer is 1500 yet look very close in size in the cutscene. Or why it is only One and a half times the mass of a frigate but still so big in those scenes.

Ensemble
I would imagine its the description that's wrong. While they clearly had the Spirit Size and designation down for the story, and all the cut-scenes, it was probably a typo in the description of the vessel that caused all this. If only they visited here and reviewed the classes of Covenant ships they could of found a dozen with not pics to work on if they really wanted on original looking ship.

Multi-Role, Specialized, or Obsolete Ship Model?
I have seen the cutscenes a number of times, and the ship in question is actually a third-length shorter than the SoF. There seems to be an inconsistency in its size, for when it scrapes the SoF, it clearly shown to be shorter, but the bridge display makes it look just as big. In overall dimensions, I'd imagine that the vessel is roughly 1,500 meters or more in length, but still below the 2,500 meter length of the SoF.

As for the ship itself, we see a total of 5 ships like this; 4 in the opening cinematics, and the one that fights the SoF. In fact, it is the only Covenant warship that we see in-game, despite the presence of CCS-Class Battlecruisers at Arcadia, and in the Halo Wars: Genesis comic, Assault Carriers and other miscellaneous ships as well.

Judging from the ship's performance characteristics, it seems to be a multi-purpose design; it is capable of glassing planetary surfaces with a large, primary plasma weapon, it can deploy troops, equipment, vehicles, and field facilities, and has uncertain ship-to-ship prowess, given that it is only seen fighting a ship at point-blank range with its lesser plasma batteries.

If anything, it seems to be a type of destroyer or planetary operations vessels; perhaps it could be called a "planetary operations destroyer" or something like that. Another possibility is that it is a design that will eventually be rendered obsolete by the more familiar 1.5 km destroyer that we know of later on, for that model is well-suited to fleet and planetary engagements, given that it can fight superbly against ships, has troops and material, and even Seraph fighters. The Halo Wars ships seem to be primarily planetary warfare-oriented, as it functions in a similar manner to the SoF.

Given that this is early in the war, and Regret notes that it will take time to muster the ships, equipment, and troops to wipe out the Humans, it is a definite possibility that these ships are a soon to be obsolete design or a more specialized vessel.

Another clue to perhaps not being a dedicated destroyer is that it doesn't have the 3-lobed design that the later destroyers are meant to have. Rather, this model has a bulbous bow on a long extension, which is similar to the Assault Carrier. That, combined with its observed capabilities, suggests that it is primarily a planetary assault vessel rather than a more generalized ship than the later destroyers are.

After all, with the Covenant being denied those Forerunner vessels, they could very well have designed better ships and phased out older designs as the war dragged on. With the inconsistent naming of this vessel, perhaps it should have its own article rather to distinguish it from the destroyers seen in the books.

--Exalted Obliteration 21:40, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

The only real problem I have is how the Destroyer glasses a planet; the opening cut scene is way off on that point. From a design standpoint I don't really have a problem with it, it seems to fit within the general realm of Covenant ship design.

The size, seems to match what the novels have stated about destroyers:

Fall of Reach Chapter 16 Page 145 "He had been wrong. There weren’t four Covenant frigates. A pair of enemy frigates emerged from Slipspace . . . escorting a destroyer and a carrier. His blood ran cold. He had seen battles in which a Covenant destroyer had made Swiss cheese of UNSC ships. Its plasma torpedoes could boil through the Iroquois’ two meters of titanium-A battleplate in seconds. Their weapons were light-years ahead of the UNSC’s."

Page 146 "The alien destroyer was a third again as massive as the Iroquois. She bristled with pulse laser turrets, insect like antennae, and chitinous pods. The carrier and destroyer moved together . . . but not toward Iroquois."

If my math isn't off that would put a destroyer around 1,455 meters long.

Which would match the following:

Page 151 "The view screen turned and centered on the enormous Covenant destroyer."

However does that mean the destroyer in Halo Wars is the only class of Covenant destroyer, probably not. This new piece of concept art describes the Destroyer as a "Capital Class Ship"

Sybex Halo PC Strategy Guide Page 73 "Covenant Battleships are long vaguely manta-shape spacecraft capable of launching dozens of fighters. They are typically armed with several dozen energy weapons. Covenant capital ships come in varying classes and sizes, though military observers note that there is a great deal of variance-weaponry, length, estimated tonnage, fighter complements, speed, and so on-within a particular class."

My conclusion, based on all this information, is that the Halo Wars version is a variation of typically seen Destroyers, and is counted as being part of their Capital Class Ships. Durandal-217 23:07, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

How exactly does "a third again as massive" mean that it's 3 times the size of the Iroqois? Wouldn't that mean that you just add a third onto the Iroqois' size? That would make it about 647 meters long. And if it was bigger than a Marathon class cruiser, then why would the humans designate it as a destroyer in the first place? Because I remember quite distincly that the covenant frigates that Keyes saw were only called that because they were about equivalent in size to a human frigate. It would not make any kind of sense to call it that when it's that big. And is there any other source for the size of a covenant destroyer? Because I am very curious as to where this number of 1500 meters came from.

Slipspace speed
There's no way that 24 Light years per hour is realistic. 01:06, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * True, but the main goal of this site is to document the Haloverse as it's shown in canon, regardless of how removed from reality it is. At the moment I can't verify that GoO actually gives that figure, though. --Andrew Nagy 04:48, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Picture
The current picture in the infobox clearly shows a few Assault Carriers below, and they look like Seraphs to a CCS-class. Who to believe??? The novels, or a game....
 * I think those are meant to be in the distance, but the lack of depth makes it hard to tell. Person1 20:50, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

More pictures
Is it possible to get more pictures of the destroyer class(es) of ship up on the site? I've only ever seen the two that are on this page and while the give a nice idea of what the ship looks like they don't reveal much more. -Version2-

More pictures
Is it possible to get more pictures of the destroyer class(es) of ship up on the site? I've only ever seen the two that are on this page and while the give a nice idea of what the ship looks like they don't reveal much more. -Version2-

Halo Wars depiction
I'm just curious, does anyone else seem to think that the destroyers as shown in Halo Wars do not fit in AT ALL with the general style of Covenant ships seen in the trilogy, i.e the assault carrier, CCS-class battlecruiser, and the several cruisers seen at the beginning of halo 2? Not to mention, a destroyer having an energy projector?? It's even stated in the novels, First Strike I think, that only "big ships have them." This ship seems to me to be a different class, as it doesn't match the novels at all. Now, perhaps someone will come along and say Halo Wars overrules the novels, but please consider this. Halo Wars seems to contradict the novels and other material in a number of ways actually. Quakeomaniac 04:38, January 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * the Halo Encyclopedia can't even get it's facts straight and it IS canon. As for the ship differences, it was made by a completely different company that was trying to stay true to the Covenant style, but as as every game has it's own unique style, so does the people that makes it. As for the contradiction with FS, there have been several retcons as to ship abilities. You think the Assault Carrier has always had the ability to separate entire sections of it's hull as seen in The Package? And, unfortunately, Bungie has said the abomination that is Halo Legends is canon.--Zervziel 03:11, January 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not familiar with Halo Legends, but I'll take your word for it as an abomination. As for separating entire sections of a ship's hull.... no, I won't regard that as canon in my book... haha. I really wish Bungie could just do us all a favor and make a listing of all ships of human and covenant design with their official specifications and if possible, images. Quakeomaniac 11:53, January 11, 2010 (UTC)

paragraph in the middle
''This dangerous warship classification has the distinctive three huge sections of heavier Covenant warships, mirroring the lethality of its larger cousins. They are used as escorts for battlegroups using larger ship classes, able to hold their own in combat protecting their battlegroup from threats.''

no, i do not like this Asdf1239 23:10, February 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) where is it stated that all heavier covenant warships have three sections? the Covenant Battleship apparently has five sections, and many covenant ships don't even have images or visual descriptions so there is no way of knowing.
 * 2) the second sentence is redundant - "they are used as escorts for battlegroups containing larger ship classes" would be self-explanatory...


 * No idea about the first point but it might be from the novels. The second point should remain as you cannot expect the general readers to know that.外国 人 (7alk ) 23:14, February 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * and what's wrong with noting that it has a central section and two wing-like structures? surely its better than just saying it has "three sections" Asdf1239 23:18, February 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Because saying so might differ from what the novels had described. Halo Wars is not perfectly canon in terms of visuals.外国 人 (7alk ) 23:22, February 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * either way, the three sections thing is incorrect because of the battleship, which is mentioned in first strike as having five sections. Asdf1239 23:34, February 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Saying it would not confirm it. Provide the page reference.外国 人 (7alk ) 23:37, February 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * its in the sources section on the Covenant Battleship page if you bothered to look, okay?

↑ Halo: First Strike, pg. 301: "...there were even bigger vessels with five bulbous sections that were two kilometers stem to stern and had a dozen deadly energy projectors" Asdf1239 23:43, February 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * You know, a simple addition of "most" would solve that little error. >.>外国 人 (7alk ) 23:52, February 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * and where is the proof that most heavier ships had three sections? apparently we dont know how many sections the Covenant CPV-class Destroyer has, or the Reverence-class Cruiser, or the Covenant Supercruiser, or the Covenant Supercarrier, et cetera..

Asdf1239 00:02, February 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * By applying to the warships we know of. In this case, most does not refer to the Battleship.外国 人 (7alk ) 00:06, February 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * except the warships that we know of are not all the warships - in fact, so far the ONLY ships we KNOW to have three sections are the CCS and the Assault Carrier(which is debatable). that does not include "most" ships. Asdf1239 00:11, February 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * It is sufficient to establish a common pattern in the Covenant design. A ratio of 2:1 that is.外<font color="#9BDDFF">国 人 (<font color="#5D8AA8">7alk ) 00:14, February 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * its still excessively generalised for two ship models. it would be better to say something along the lines of "like the CCS-class Battlecruiser and the Assault Carrier, it has three sections." Asdf1239 00:35, February 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * wait - does the destroyer even have three sections? theres the fuselage, two wings slanting down, and two wings pointing sideways. those arent clearly defined bulbous "sections" like in the ccs, the only way that it can have three sections is if you regard each pair of wings as a section, which is awkward compared to how the other ships are described. Asdf1239 00:40, February 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * "No idea about the first point but it might be from the novels."

- What I asked earlier which you ignored. As per quote.<font color="#5D8AA8">外<font color="#9BDDFF">国 人 (<font color="#5D8AA8">7alk ) 00:58, February 14, 2010 (UTC)

Where did 1500 meters come from?
Nowhere in all of the halo canon have I seen even a single shred of evidence that says covenant destroyers are 1500 meters long. TFOR says quite clearly "a third again as massive" as a human destroyer, which is 485 meters long. That would make it 647 meters long, as a rough estimate, since mass and length are hardly the same thing. Wannabecriminalman 01:16, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Dunno. The problem with Halopedia: information not properly sourced. *sigh* Sketch ist 01:18, April 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * I believe that by massive it means size, i.e. Jupiter is about 1000 times as massive as the Earth (I believe). SO in this case, I suspect that it means that the cruiser is 1.33 times the length of a destroyer, which equates to about 647 as you said. Does the book say one-third or three times as massive? It looks like the article assumes three times, and 3x485 is approximately 1500. Lieutenant Grade One.png <span style="background-color:#787878; color:white; -moz-border-radius-topleft:24px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:24px"> ΘяɪɸɴF22  <span style="background-color:#787878; color:firebrick; -moz-border-radius-bottomright:24px; -moz-border-radius-topright:24px">  Me<span style="background-color:#787878; color:firebrick; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:24px; -moz-border-radius-topleft:24px">  Talk    Contributions  <span style="background-color:#787878; color:gold; -moz-border-radius-bottomright:24px; -moz-border-radius-topright:24px">  CAG 01:21, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * The Fall of Reach, page 146, "The alien destroyer was a third again as massive as the Iroqois" I think this one needs to be changed.Wannabecriminalman 22:45, April 29, 2010 (UTC)

Hmm...now that I think about it and look closely at FoR, the references to the size of a Covenant Destroyer is contradictory. While the famous line on page 146 saying that these vessels are "a third again as massive as the Iriqoise", all other references to the size of a destroyer spoke of it as being a "large" vessel, such as a cruiser.

On page 8, for instance, there is a moderately accurate description of the size of the vessels, both destroyers and cruisers;

"Three dozen Covenant ships-big ones, destroyers and cruisers-winked into view in the system."

On page 151, another sentence referring to the size of a Covenant Destroyer;

"The view screen turned and centered on the massive Covenant Destroyer."

What these 3 sentences show is that there is an inconsistency regarding a Covenant Destroyer's size, for all but one statement about its size, mass, etct. put it firmly in the size category that is shared with a vessel such as a cruiser or carrier, but not an Assault Carrier or larger. On page 151, the Destroyer being described, the one that is the first victim of the infamous "Keyes Loop", is described as not only having turrets, launch bays as well. In Ghosts of Onyx, a Destroyer is described as having launch bays for even Seraph fighters and even having a Gravity Lift to deploy troops, which one does in the battle at the end of the book.

If the vessels were a mere 687 meters or so, how could it be in the same size range as a cruiser or standard carrier, be described as masssive, and not only possess launch bays big enough for Seraph fighters and dropships, and even possess a Gravity Lift capable of sending troops and supplies to a planetary surface, both demonstrating that the vessel in question is large enough to be able to deploy a respectable number of troops and material on its own, which is an ability shared with the more dedicated capital ships?

Just going by the books, all indications save for the one on page 146 regarding a Covenant Destroyer's size, when it is rarely mentioned, place the vessels in a size, mass, and capability range that are more in line with dedicated capital ships, rather than the comparatively puny size of a UNSC Destroyer. If anything, judging by the number of inconsistencies in FoR, it is more than likely a typo or simply a mistake made by the author.

Unfortunately, this simple typo/error has been magnified far beyond its appropriate significance to create the inconsistency we have before us today, which is in itself only a singular example of the problem that is endemic to the entire Halo franchise; the canon itself is, and always has been, in a rapid and uneven state of evolution, contradiction, changes, and being made up as things go along. The makers of the fiction, be it Bungie, 343 Industries, or otherwise, are simply not capable of making the canon perfect and ironclad in its consistency, which is more than understandable, given the Halo universe's sheer size and scope. This is further exacerbated by the rapid introduction of new characters, themes, objects, etc. which will create inconsistencies and contradictions no matter what they do. It is simply an inevitable outcome and reality of a large and comprehensive piece of fiction that is developed and changed as it goes along.

So in that light, the size and depiction of a Covenant Destroyer as shown in Halo Wars and Legends is actually quite accurate, and well in line with categorization of these ships as being fairly large in size and mass, as described consistently in the books. (Exalted Obliteration 02:58, May 19, 2010 (UTC))


 * And you never consider that the Covenant had more than just one class/type of destroyer? - Sketch ist 03:04, May 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * This. It is entirely possible, in fact probable, that a massive interstellar empire such as the Covenant would have at least two or more different classes of Destroyer. Because of this, I think we should mention this, and the size given in FoR on the page.--<font color="MidnightBlue">Jugus (<font color="Gray">Talk  | <font color="Gray">Contribs ) 06:19, May 19, 2010 (UTC)