Talk:Flood

Source for Origins?
Just read through the article and saw the Origins paragraph, and was completely confused about where that information came from. It depicts humans and Prophets seeming to have come in contact with the Flood 100,000 years ago, which does not make any sense, and depicts a part of the Flood history I have never heard of. Have yet to read the Cryptum novel yet, but if that information is in there, there should be a source link of some kind. While I have yet to read the novel, it seems to suggest that this article is not entirely accurate, as there does not seem to be any way to fit the information into the current Halo canon. --208.123.133.218 15:50, 6 January 2011 (EST)Extron 117

It is indeed from Cryptum. Ironic, to consider that the Forerunners wiped out ancient Humans, and in so doing they rid the galaxy of a cure to the Flood -- Am I a Lion, or a Lamb? Or a Boy?  Saint o r Sinner? The Lost Books 18:37, 6 January 2011 (EST)

Halo Wars
Uh your wrong on Forge detonating a reactor he detonated there Slip-Space Drive and there not lost, there trying to get home without a slip-space drive, and it would seem from what Ive unlocked on the Halo Timeline in Halo Wars that only Anders is put in cryo cause it says that Cutter goes and sees the Sprit of Fires doctor and write condolances to families and all such stuff and finally sleeps for the 1st time in 2 weeks... Master Chief Petty Officer Matthew 124 -AKA- Firehawk77 (I tried to sign but it wouldnt work in preview,sry)

Cryo protocol requires all non-essential personnel to go into cryo, to conserve resources and energy that would otherwise be wasted on life support. By non-essential, that would include Professor Anders. A skeleton crew is retained to keep the ship barely running, including the Captain. As for what Forge detonated, it was actually their FTL drive - the Spirit of Fire can still probably enter and exit slipspace, but without an FTL drive, it would be no faster, and a lot less accurate, than just drifting. -- ' Administrator  Specops306  -  Qur'a 'Morhek ''  Honour Light Your Way! ''' 04:59, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Problem
I just noticed that about 3/4ths for is in bold can someone fix this i really don't know how.Snore 00:41, 10 July 2009 (UTC) Uh never mind i fixed it.Snore 00:47, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Passages with Poorly Supported and Written Statements.
'''The Flood, a virulent species of parasites, is an anomaly in all known biology, and an anomaly to regular life. Due to this, it is thought to be an extragalactic species, originating from different galaxies, and even from different universes.'''

While this sentence begins with accurate information which persists until the middle of the second, it ends with a statement that is not mentioned or corroborated anywhere.

"and even from different universes."

Where did this come from? I had earlier deleted it because it was flat-out wrong and part of this wikia's problem of poor grammar and reasoning being passed off as fact, but it was put back anyway. This is apparently someone's pet theory that they're trying to pass off as fact.

Since when is it said in actual canon that the Flood could have come from different universes? I have reviewed many sources of canon, and nowhere does it say this. All that is said about the Flood in regard to their origins is that they are foreign to all known forms of life in the Milky Way galaxy, and that they are extra-galactic in origin.

Even if they did come from other universes, how could they get here without it being noted somewhere that they came from a device or mechanism that could lead to this kind of event? No such statement or idea has ever been described.

This kind of activity is rampant at this wiki, and really needs to stop. Proper encyclopedia's do not have baseless speculations and unsubstantiated pet theories being paraded around as fact. If people do this, then those who come here to cite this will be being fed false information and outright lies, and will perpetuate the problem even further.

--Exalted Obliteration 15:48, 30 August 2009 (UTC)


 * "part of this wikia's problem"

- Your comment


 * Actually, every Wiki suffers from this problem.-  5 əb'7 aŋk (7alk ) 15:54, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

how come the article looks different, like at the top?

Elephants
Elephants 124.191.85.41 12:46, September 26, 2009 (UTC)

???--Shade  Link  Shadow   13:22, September 26, 2009 (UTC)

RECRUITING

 * Hi, I'm Sciencematt123. I am trying to make a study group for the flood. I need some field people, someone who knows how to mod, and some fom of organization I haven't really thought of yet. I don't think that everything about the flood is known, so we would really be helping out the wiki. Feel free to use my talk page. Sciencematt123 15:03, September 26, 2009 (UTC)

Grey101
See this article: Forerunner-Flood War.

98,379 - 97,448 != 300. In other words, that is not 300 years. That's almost 1000. 931 to be exact, just like the article said. Don't change it.  Smoke Sound off! 02:44, November 28, 2009 (UTC)

Cleanup
This article requires massive cleanup, especially the Halo Wars'!-  5 əb'7 aŋk (7alk ) 00:53, January 10, 2010 (UTC)

I concur completely. I think that the picture should instead be the flood-infested High Charity, and more screenshots from Halo Legends: Origins should be included. They show the massive scale of the Flood's attacks. - Vladith 10:01, June 13th, 2010.

What's Next?
I wonder whether we've seen the last of the Flood. There is so much mystery surrounding them. Where exactly did they come from, and how did they originally come into being? Did they develop naturally, or were they artificially created? Do they have any connection to the Precursors? After all, Mendicant Bias states to the Gravemind that they share the same ultimate goal somehow but that the Flood's way is "faster". What could Mendicant have meant? What do the Forerunners and Flood and perhaps Precursors have in common? In the same conversation, Mendicant says in response to the Gravemind "That would explain why [life] developed independently!" Is it possible that life wasn't supposed to develop in independent forms? Maybe there is much more to the Flood than meets the eye. So far, it seems like the Gravemind has merely been consciously rationalizing his primal instincts rather than trying to develop a world-view truly different from them, but maybe the Flood really does have an ultimate, rational goal for their behavior. Maybe that was the reason they were brought into the world: to end the suffering that comes with being independent beings. The Gravemind has implied this several times in his conversations with the Chief and Mendicant: that the Flood will make the galaxy into a utopia without pain or suffering, only oneness, since all life will be part of Compound Minds, such as the Flood or A.I.. Maybe the reason that the Gravemind is so fascinated by Artificial Intelligences like Cortana and Mendicant Bias is that he wants to find a program that will be able to assimilate all programs in the same way that he can assimilate all biological life, so that he can further the Flood's goal of universal oneness. It is likely that all Flood/Graveminds share this goal. Since the two Graveminds known seem to share the same memories (see the Gravemind's first speech in Halo 2), it seems that the memory of all Flood is retained in even a single Flood spore. Therefore, even if a Gravemind is destroyed, or if a Flood specimen exits its Gravemind's area of mental control (by leaving its galaxy for a new one without a Gravemind, for example), the memories so far from the previous Gravemind are retained in the specimen. This would also explain why all of the Graveminds seem so similar.

Anyway, what about this mysterious "Intergalactic Stage" of the Flood? In Halo: Combat Evolved, the Flood were in the "Feral Stage". In Halo 2, they were in the "Coordinated Stage". In Halo 3, they were in the "Interstellar Stage". Does that mean that we will eventually witness the Flood's "Intergalactic Stage"? If I have any guess as to what this stage may be like, I suspect that it would most resemble a "technologically advanced" Flood; it would resemble life pre-Flood, with all of its civilization and technology, with the exception that all life would be under the control of the collective intelligence of the Gravemind, and life would be self-sustaining. If this is indeed the case, galactic life's state of being would indeed resemble the "utopian socialism" advocated by the Gravemind. (Of course, if you think about the fact that there are no separate consciousnesses in this system and so the only "real" person is the Gravemind, then it seems less like "utopian socialism" and more like complete and total tyranny, where all organisms are merely the extension of one individual's will. But this makes the idea far less appealing.)

I wonder if the planet the Chief is heading toward at the end of Halo 3 is G617 g1. If so, that would explain the eerie, hectic music that plays when it is revealed. If this is the case, a sequel could explain how the Flood were able to get there in the first place.

Also, I wonder if there is a "good" Gravemind somewhere, that started out as a normal Gravemind but eventually learned the value of living in harmony with other forms of life. It is stated in Halo 3's Bestarium that it is "unfortunate" that the Flood's ultimate goal is to "consume all life". But what if its goal changed? If anything could change the Flood, I would guess that it would be contact with the Precursors, the alien beings (most likely from another galaxy) that originally taught and enlightened the Forerunners and handed down their Mantle to them, the religious belief that all forms of life are sacred and that sentient beings must respect biodiversity while allowing evolution to proceed untampered by them (unless of course, biodiversity itself is threatened). Theoretically, the Flood could choose to only assimilate what it needed to survive (like the dead), or use its technology to sustain itself, much in the same way that many humans choose to only eat what they need to survive without harming other intelligent species. In this way the Flood could exist as part of the universe's biodiversity rather than as a threat to it. Of course, such a Gravemind would need a much less sinister name; perhaps the Dreammind?

- User:Webspidrman 18 January 2010 (UTC)

At the end of origins part 2, A gravemind is seen handing Spartan 117 a data core, showing no signs of hostility, could the flood have gained respect for 117 and the humans, seeing what they had done at the Ark, and called a truce, realizing that this is one race they cannot assimilate? -- User:Matt98 17 April 2010 13:29 (UTC)

Forerunner Combat armor
Where is that article I couldn't find it?!?!?!Thank you taking time to listen to my post! 06:15, January 31, 2010 (UTC)!!! article
 * Combat Skin.外国 人 (7alk ) 06:17, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

When will we see the flood again?
I would like to see the flood in a new Halo Game maybe The Flood.Anyone agree with me.

Smallest Flood infection vector......
I was under the impression that the only way one could be possessed by the Flood was via an infection form. Recent Halo sources have muddied the waters a bit, however.

Covenant commander Rtas 'Vadum states that "one single flood spore can destroy a species" and in the Halo: Evolutions short story "The Mona Lisa", the Flood seems to be transmitted through a bite or scratch, almost like a bacterial infection.


 * I just assumed 'Vadum was talking about infection forms. In The Mona Lisa I believe they were all attacked by infection forms. Benti, for example, mentioned "sacs of pus" attachted to them. The marines didn't know how it worked though, so they didn't pay much attention to them I guess.

Obviously, the way the Flood actually works is still "evolving" as more writers explore it, but I'm rather confused as to what the current official line is on this subject.--Mayhemm 23:29, March 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Naturally, the Infection Form is the primary method. When the Flood spread, they change the atmosphere by releasing their Flood spores. If enough are inhaled -I presume- you will succumb to the "Flood Super strain", and be converted into a Flood form.--  Fore  run  ner  00:06, March 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Does anyone remember the greenish mucosa-like substance that was dripping from the ceiling (as I recall, it looked to me like greenish-grey bird droppings) in the level 343 Guilty Spark before Master Chief's first encounter with the Flood? What was it? Was it just biomass shed from Flood combat forms or was it something else? And if so, how does it relate to the way the Flood spreads (if at all)? Secret Service 88 06:07, May 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Does anyone remember the greenish mucosa-like substance that was dripping from the ceiling (as I recall, it looked to me like greenish-grey bird droppings) in the level 343 Guilty Spark before Master Chief's first encounter with the Flood? What was it? Was it just biomass shed from Flood combat forms or was it something else? And if so, how does it relate to the way the Flood spreads (if at all)? Secret Service 88 06:07, May 14, 2010 (UTC)

Isn't "Infection Form"sopposed to be capitalized?If it is,the Flood page has SEVERAL captial errors. Ninja bebe 22:32, May 14, 2010 (UTC)Ninja_Bebe.


 * I believe the capitalization is optional. We tend to do it here because it aids in our ability to link to pages, which are automatically capitalized. --Dragon<font color="#F28500">c laws (<font color="#4D56B1">talk ) 19:00, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

Mythology
FWIW, mythology really just means a collection of stories belonging to a people. To call the Bible a collection of myths is true whether or not the stories themselves are true. In informal usage, myth means a false story (e.g. Mythbusters), but I think in a formal usage such as an encyclopedia article you can call Noah's Ark a myth without starting a religious flame war. --<font color="#4D56B1">Dragon<font color="#F28500">c laws (<font color="#4D56B1">talk ) 18:11, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

Attack on High Charity
I'd just like to say that on the section "Attack on High Charity" is completely unfair on the covenant's part. The populace WAS a match for the flood onslaught, I mean they may have lost the battle but they managed to put up a good fight and kill a great deal of flood during the battle. I mean come on, something got to be done about that statement. High Charity wasn't QUICKLY overrun it was EVENTUALLY overrun. Sorry for over-emphasising but I just don't think that does the covenant justice.


 * No, it was quickly overrun.  Smoke Sound off! 12:56, June 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * I wouldn't say so, personally.


 * High Charity had a population of millions, mostly civilian. We see the process of its infection throughout the High Charity level, and it is rapid. A cut line of Cortana's dialogue mentions the Flood injecting spores into the city's ventillation systems, spreading the infection even faster. By the end of the game, in what we are meant to assume has been mere hours rather than days or weeks, High Charity has been overrun completely by the Flood. --  Specops306   Autocrat     Qur'a 'Morhek   00:46, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

A Long-Obsolete and False Paragraph
'''The mutations can occur randomly, or uniformly: according to the Halo Graphic Novel, they can sometimes develop into engorged combat forms notably larger than the normal combat form, or can alarmingly grow thick shells within minutes, indicating that the Flood can facilitate tremendous and exaggerated metabolic activity during the physiological mutilation. Furthermore, in rare cases, the mutations can constantly shift: when Rtas 'Vadumee battled his comrade-turned-combat form Bero 'Kusovai aboard the Infinite Succor, 'Kusovai continued to mutate throughout the duration of the battle. Though never seen, it can be assumed infection forms were involved in infecting victims in this case. Before being killed to prevent his becoming a Flood, one of the Sangheili accompanying Rtas 'Vadumee appears to have a wound in his chest that may have been the entry point for an infection form. Many of the Flood on the Succor seemed to constantly be mutating the infected biomass and also seemed to merge them together. This suggests the possibility that over time any infected host can mutate further and further, as exemplified by the Brain Form or the Gravemind and different versions of the Combat Form.'''

Whoever wrote this made a very large mistake in their logic; he/she assumed that the visuals in the Halo Graphic Novel story "Last Flight of the Infinite Succor" were fully canon. When comparing the visuals from that story with that in the 4 games the Flood are present in, that turns out to be false. Nowhere is it depicted elsewhere that the Flood constantly mutate and merge the biomass of the hosts in the manner shown in the story, nor does the Flood ever have the features and color palette shown in the comic.

In all other cases, the Flood are shown to have a fairly uniformly yellow, green, and brown visual palette, and structured in a very consistent way, such as the structure of the Infection, Combat, and Carrier Forms along with the Hive structures seen in Halo 3 and Halo Wars. The only real exception that exists to this fairly uniform color assortment are the colors on the Pure Forms and the more reddish tones seen within High Charity in Halo 3. But even then, the Hive environments still possess a considerable amount of sickly yellow, green, and brown, while the Pure Forms are colored and textured more like a reptile with shades of green and grey mixed in.

But none of this is consistent with the rainbow assortment of colors seen on the Flood in that story; the Flood Combat Forms are even shown having mechanical structures fused into them, including weapons, which is something that has never been seen elsewhere. This includes what are clearly meant to be infected animals, but they do not show the traits of infection that is so uniform everywhere else. The comic is also replete with weapons that never made an appearance in any of the games, especially those used by the former UNSC personnel. There are even instances of Grunts using assault rifles, which is something they are not meant to do.

So in all, the writer of that paragraph failed to take into account that practically every visual within the story is artistic licenses and cannot be seen as canonically valid. The same is true for the other stories, though the stories "Armor Testing" and "Breaking from Quarantine" were more consistent with the canon visuals of the time.

The one thing that the Infinite Succor story did get right was this: the Flood can and do infect high-order animals and use them in combat. This adds a further dimension to the Flood's capabilities in the Feral Stage, which is further corroborated and expanded upon in Halo Wars. In that game, the Flood have not only infected UNSC and Covenant forces along with creating a large Proto-Gravemind, they have also infected and indeed interfaced and blended with the biosphere of the Shield World.

This can be seen very clearly with the spore-covered environment, the Hive structures such as the Dens, Nests, Stalks, Launchers, etc., as well as the variety of mobile forms the Flood employed there; The "Thrasher" Forms, the Swarms, and the "Bomber" Forms. Though not prominently stated, these forms are visually and functionally canonical examples of what were inaccurately depicted in the Graphic Novel; repurposed and reshaped animals infected for the Flood's use. It is perhaps even possible that in the course of Halo Wars' development cycle that the concept of interactive ambient wildlife was shifted over and indeed transformed into the origin for the unique forms shown in Halo Wars.

In any case, I recommend and indeed will remove and redo that paragraph for the sake of improving this respectable article.

--Exalted Obliteration 02:05, July 31, 2010 (UTC)

Reference
For reference: "You can see how the body's been transformed by the genetic restructuring of the Flood infection. The small creatures carry spores that cause a host to mutate. The mutated host then produces spores that can pass the Flood to others. It is insidious and elegant. As long as any hosts remain, the Flood is virulent." --343 Guilty Spark

A cure
In halo Cryptum it says tha humans encountered the flood before the forerunners did and actualy manage to stop them with a cure, so how come when the flood later atacked the forerunners, who are more advanced as they just won a wars against us, couldnt make a cure?--Legionwrex 15:45, 15 January 2011 (EST)

The way I see it, it was for one or all of these reasons: A) The Flood were still just getting started and probably hadn't even formed a Gravemind yet, so they were easier to deal with, B) The Forerunners didn't really know how the humans beat the Flood, and even if they did they probably couldn't replicate the strategy given their circumstances, C) The Flood adapted to the cure and became immune to any sort of genetic weapon.


 * The Gravemind was apparently already in existence upon entry into the galaxy according to Iris. The Forerunners couldn't replicate the humans' research because it was thousands of years ago and, due to the destruction of human civilisation, irretrievable. It didn't kill all flood, just the spores that were on their worlds - they were probably unaware of Seaward. Forerunner 17:29, 15 January 2011 (EST)

Thanks for helping.--Legionwrex 13:39, 16 January 2011 (EST)


 * I haven't read the actual book yet, but from how I've seen it described the "cure" was no such thing - the Precursor provided a gene insertion that made the affected humans unable to be infected, causing the Flood that tried to simply die. It didn't affect the Flood's ability to simply kill them or ignore them, and was very localised. It also meant that anyone with this gene would still die, horribly, though it did cause the Flood's advance to falter, until the Forerunners tore down humanity, and let its onslaught continue. If I'm totally off base, please correct me. --  Specops306   Autocrat     Qur'a 'Morhek   18:25, 16 January 2011 (EST)

Flood forms in legends
In Orgins, many of the "Unknown" flood forms are actually from the art of halo, and art of halo 3. Seeing as how these concept forms were discrebed in those books, and now are more or less canon, do they warrent their own pages? http://img810.imageshack.us/img810/9315/signxb.jpg 13:50, 19 January 2011 (EST)