Talk:Ket-pattern battlecruiser

Disputed Content
What content is disputed? --Dragonclaws 01:55, 10 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Hello. Ok. Well, first - who knows the number of ships in a CCS battlegroup? Second,who knows what CCS stands for? And third, the Ascendant Justice was not necessarily a CCS-class. Nvm my third comment. Ok. THe weapons of a CCS-class are unknown, because the Ascendant Justice was not confirmed as a CCS-class. And more that I can't think of right now. Sorry if I'm annoying you peoples. =)


 * Cheers,


 * RelentlessRogue 19:45, 10 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I think Ascendant Justice was probably an Assault Carrier, I can see your points but its ok to speculate some times.         - Climax Viod 20:00, 10 August 2006 (UTC)


 * "Our fighters are mopping up the last of their recon picket now, nothing serious. But, I've isolated approach signatures from multiple CCS battle groups; make it three capitol ships per group. And in about 90 seconds they'll be all over us" -Cortana, Pillar of Autumn level -ED 02:35, 11 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Perhaps we should start using a list of references like Wikipedia does? --Dragonclaws 06:24, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
 * We did not have much problem with disputed content before we transferred. -ED
 * True, but sometimes it takes a while to find junk info. I remember a few non-existant Prophet characters that lasted for over a year before I realized I had not heard of them, and looked for a source. Also, there was a bit of confusion with someone mistaking modded vehicles with fanfic descriptions for a legitimate part of the universe. I can see how citing sources could help improve the site. --Dragonclaws 08:52, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

I think the CCS-class cruiser seen in the opening cutscene of Halo 2, during the flashback of the Covenant arriving at Halo is probably the Ascendant Justice.--Spartan 118 22:19, 16 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Ascendant Justice was a flagship. It was much larger than the CCS class ships. This was made note of in the book, the Ascendant Justice was not a CCS class ship. Furthermore, since the dispute is over, I'm removing the template. -ED 01:34, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

What I think about the letters CCS probably stands for Covenant Carrier Support or something like that.--prophit of war 15:17, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

CCS
CCS stands for Covenant Captal Ship--Darth nexes 19:19, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Do you know that for sure? It carries troops like a carrier, you know it has so many? It's not an actual capital ship, Cap. Ships look different from CCS's.--prophit of war 22:30, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
 * The idea for the CCS meaning behind the letters is a smart one, but is still fiction. Sorry! And anyways, capital ship generally refers to any large ship larger than a starfighter...yeah...cheers,  Relentless  Recusant [[Image:Jedi_Order.jpg|20px]] 23:22, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

picture
i dont think the picture shown on the page at the top in the info table is that of a CCS class battle cruiser it should be a ship like the truth and recanciliation am i right?
 * that is like the Truth and Reconciliation 49 Proximal Secant[ oracle ][[Image:H3 Monitor.PNG|30px]] 18:15, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

The bottom picture is fanfic --Will 20:33, 05 January 2007 (UTC)

i think that the bottom pic should be used. or that some one should get a pic of the truth and reconciliation, because that is a CCS-class,--J!MMY8806 13:13, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Interior Photos
I've uploaded all kinds of inside shots of the CCS-class, if aynone has any issues with these contact me. I've got many more, i'll upload new ones. --Shch &#39;Nodotee 02:54, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Weapons
In Halo First Strike it mentions that a cruiser could launch 5 plasma torpedos at once..Halo3 22:33, 13 January 2007 (UTC)--Halo3

Point of view?
This article seems to have been written from a real world point of view despite the fact it should be written from within the Halo universe, for example:

"However, unwanted perpetrators can also be taken up in this beam, as did SPARTAN-117 and various Orbital Drop Shock Troopers during a daring raid in the events of Halo: Combat Evolved, the level of "Truth and Reconcilitation". "

Halo: Combat Evolved is a real world reference, if this is to be included in the article it should really be referred to as the battle of installation 04 or Alpha Halo - whichever is more consistent with the rest of the wikipedia.

In general it seems to be written too much from a game point of view, with a cruiser like this details such as the doors and number of brigs are less significant - its combat capability would seem more important, what weapons it had, armour, shielding etc. Admittedly this does present the problem that detail is quite vague, although we know it must have had plasma turret(s), a point defence laser system and shielding there's not much more detail than that. In First Strike the Ascendent Justice is listed as having seven plasma turrets, therefore the CCS-cruiser must have less but I can't think of an instance where this is detailed?

Also, this is meant to be about the general class of ship not the Truth and Reconciliation - it seems to go into too much detail about that particular ship. Again for the section above I'd reword that as the Gravity left being susceptible to UNSC intrusion but not go into specifics.

Does anyone else think that CCS stands for Covenant Capital Ship?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Yes--The Chazz025 and Clan 17:59, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes. Cortana said so in the openin cutsene of halo:CE. plus wateva the Covenant say in halo is roughly translated!!! so it very well cud be...

Wait a second I don't recall cortana sayin CCS class.I don't recall anything mentioning a the term CCS.Is CCS specualtion because generally I just hear battle cruiser or just simply cruiser.Halo3 01:41, 3 May 2007 (UTC)--Halo3

Dont believe me?just pop Halo on and replay first level its in the very first cutscene man--CHr0n0sPh3r3 12:03, 15 July 2007 (UTC)cHr0n0sPh3r3

I'd be 98% sure that CCS stands for Covenant Capital Ship. Just look at modern military acronyms for vehicle classification. My only other guesses were Cruiser Class Ship or Cruiser Covenant Ship, but if we look at the CAR (maybe assault/recon?) and CPV (P-something Vessel?) acronyms, these last two just don't fit. The first letter must stand for Covenant.

Furthermore, it is common in science fiction to make a distinction between space ships of "capital grade" and others, whether they are specialized or sub-capital grade. Capital ships are generally long-range, well armed for their size, and able to fulfill several roles within a fleet. The Longsword and Pelican are space-faring vessels, but not capital ships. I'd even dare to say that the line would be drawn at cutter and scout or frigate, a cutter not being a capital grade vessel.

I believe the ships themselves don't belong to the CCS acronym, but that the battle group is classified as such because it is composed entirely of capital grade vessels. This is further verified through what Cortana states about CCS battle group that contains three capital ships. The wording is very specific:

"But, I've isolated approach signatures from multiple CCS battle groups, make it 3 capital ships per group."

The battle group is classified as CCS, not the ships directly, though they do satisfy the requirements for the groups classification. 69.59.74.182 05:39, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

No CCS does not stand for covenant capital ship as a covenant capital ship is actually an assault carrier,on the contrary I was beginning to think that CCS is a ship formation or navigation tecnique,anyhow,an assault carrier is a capital ship.69.223.168.106 19:02, 31 July 2007 (UTC)--Halo3

No, as the fact, i think that CCS actually stands for Covenant Combat Ship. Think about it. If this was a true captiol ship, and one of any importance, then they wouldnt be deployed and destroyed so lightly. It only makes sence that this would be a mere Combat Ship instead of a ship of any importance.

As for acronyms CPV could stand for Covenant Patrol Vessel CAR is prolly Covenant Ariel Recon As for Capital ship classes i found this from Wikipedia "In the 20th century, especially in World Wars I and II, typical capital ships would be battleships, battlecruisers, and in WWII, aircraft carriers (though it took until late 1942 for carriers to be universally considered capital ships). All of the above ships were close to 20,000 tons displacement or heavier. Heavy cruisers, despite being important ships, were not considered capital ships." And dont tell me that "this is in the 26th century" cause we all know that Bungie made the Halo universe ships according to contemporary ship classes, since A "CCS class" battle cruiser would be deemed important enough for keeping Keyes in, i wouldnt go too far in saying that CCS does in fact stand for Covenant Capital Ship? Further reinforcement being, if u watch the "heretic" cutscene in Halo 2 IT only shows CCS's in orbit above 04, nothing says it cant be, but, there is evidence suggesting the acronym is accurate--CHr0n0sPh3r3 12:18, 1 August 2007 (UTC)cHr0n0sPh3r3

Also, in the US Navy, USS stands for United States Ship and in the Royal Navy, HMS stands for His/Her Majesty Ship so I'm guessing CCS stands for Covenant Cruiser Ship. CAR could stand for Covenant Ariel Reconnaissance and CPV could stand for Covenant Patrol Vessel. I'm not sure though.

Person above I agree with you I think that CCS does stand for Covenent capital ship - Natcom

I think CAR may be Covenant Aggressive Reconesaince. Gunnery sergeant Maiar 09:57, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Screenshot for the outside of the cruiser.
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l148/megatron6543/8502880-Full.jpg

why are loyalist Cruisers blue and Separatist cruisers are white in the same light

Yeah its prob just the way to distinguish the two the Brutes recolored their cruisers whilst the Sangheli stuck with their traditional colorsCouncilor &#39;Rumilee 04:03, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

mass effect similarity
is it just me or do these ships sort of look like the geth ship from mass effect? Sgt. Fenix


 * It's just you. These cruisers were designed long before Bioware started Mass Effect. --  Councillor  Specops306  -  Kora   'Morhek  02:38, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Battlecruiser?
In the first sentence, is it really necessary to have a link to an actual Navy Battlecruiser in Wikipedia?  Lovemuffin Wiki UserpageTalk PageEdit CountContributions 19:25, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
 * No, with that logic, we should link to a wikipedia article on rifles for the plasma rifle. Removed the link. I also removed the believed 7 reference in the trivia section as it was just grasping at straws. XRoadToDawnX 13:33, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Halo Wars?
When does a Battlecruiser appear in "Arcadia City?" Metalingus627 01:36, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

Sadly, it doesn't. Two are only mentioned in the preceding cutscene when Serina updates Cutter on the invasion.71.192.134.75 01:45, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

Armament problems
It is said that the CCS-class has 'Plasma torpedo launchers'. However, plasma torpedoes are fired by plasma turrets (which incidentally are capable of other modes of firing). I believe there should be an increase in consistency between the specs of all the Covenant ships.

Edit: I am changing Plasma torpedo launcher to Plasma turrets whenever I come across it. AlexB1001 11:50, 7 December 2010 (EST)

Different ships?
The Halo Encyclopedia uses the cruiser type featured in Halo 3 to represent a Covenant light cruiser, and a Halo 2 cruiser to represent the CCS-class battlecruiser. Could this be a legitimate reason for the different colour scheme and design between the Halo 2 and 3 cruisers? Or could this just be dismissed as a placeholder? Further - do the two cruisers that fly over you in Halo 3 look a kilometer and a half long? --  Fore  run  ner '' 11:22, 18 April 2011 (EDT)


 * According to Loftus' scale comparison chart, the Halo 3-style cruiser (labeled Triumphant Declaration) is the exact same size as the Combat Evolved one. On another note, was there ever a 3D model of a cruiser in Halo 2? All I can remember are some background sprites but no actual up-to-scale model. And I'd take everything from the Encyclopedia with a grain of salt, considering the overall amount of errors and mislabeled images. --Jugus (Talk  | Contribs ) 11:56, 18 April 2011 (EDT)


 * No 3D model - just a paper cutout flying around in cutscenes, though as a properly-scaled piece (same shape as the Truth and Reconciliation).--  Fore  run  ner '' 12:08, 18 April 2011 (EDT)

Scarabs?
In ODST on the highway level, buck says that the scarabs probably dropped off of one of the cruisers, should we add the scarab to the complement section in the template? --Maccabeuse 11:23, 30 July 2012 (EDT)


 * "probably". What he thinks might not be true.— subtank   13:58, 30 July 2012 (EDT)

Halo 4 and the CCS-class Battlecruiser
Thought I should call a little attention to this, because we have a rather solid indicator that the ships we see throughout Halo 4 are not CCS-class Battlecruisers. This may be worth consideration for the sake of the article. The key evidence for this can be viewed here, a set of images I captured from the opening cinematic of Spartan-Ops: Episode 1 which very clearly shows two ships of the same shape, but of vastly different sizes. http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1165079 As things currently stand, the ships that were thought to be CCS-Class Battlecruisers throughout Halo 4 are far more likely to be Covenant Light Cruisers. BrySkye (talk) 19:41, 31 December 2012 (EST)
 * That makes sense. If the ships' in-game size is of any indication, the CRS-class is the most likely candidate. They do look exactly like the CCS-class, but it's no different from the supercarrier being identical to the assault carrier. --Jugus (Talk  | Contribs ) 00:30, 18 December 2012 (EST)
 * Actually on the supercarrier issue if you watch the scale of it next to the Corvette (when it is between the two hulls of the supercarrier) you can see the supercarrier is much smaller than the offical size. On this ship issue however, the ship seen in Spartan Ops is VERY similar to the CCS but not identical whereas all the other Covenant cruisers are identical to the CCS in all other games bar having green colour to it (which is seen with all Remnant/Sangheilii technology). Also on the issue of scale it clearly dwarfs the cruisers seen around it in a way that is similar in scale to how the Assault Carriers dwarfed the CCS (and this is proven as the smaller ships pass between the large ship and the camera). When the Infinity drops out of slipspace it can be seen directly next to this large ship before it smashes into it. Now remember the Infinity is a HUGE ship (largest the UNSC had built) yet when it is next to this ship it can be seen to be very similar in size meaning that this ship would be close in scale to the Assault Carrier meaning it is far to large to be the CCS. Now the CCS is known to be similar in size to the Hylcon class cruisers and in Halo 4:Forward Unto Dawn this cruisers are seen to be very small in comparison to the Infinity whereas this ship is not meaning that the ship seen in Spartan Ops is definately far to large to be a CCS.


 * Another reasoning that many believe that the Cruisers seen throughout Halo 4 aren't CCS is due to falling through the hull of one in the first mission it appears to be much smaller in scale to a CCS, however MC is supposed to be falling through it at great speed so that the scale isn't obvious. The reason the ship appears to small is because the CCS models used in Every Halo game are much smaller than the canonical scale of the vessel. In C.E. it is possible to shot at the Truth and Reconsiliation and see that it is actually very close to the ground and therefore only a fraction of the size it is made to look like. Also in Halo: Reach it is possible to fly around the CCS in Alexandria using the Pelican easteregg and by doing this you can see that they are not anywhere near the canonical size of the ship. In many instances in the campaign of Halo 4 the cruisers are made to look very large, and in the mission Infinity the cruisers in the final stage of the level look very large like the CCS in previous games.


 * On the issue of the ships being apparently weaker its more something done for story by 343, but in the first mission Cortana notes that the ship closest to them has its shields down suggesting that normally these ships would have shields up protecting them from missles and MACs. In this game 343 have tried to deliberately make the Covenant Remnant appear much weaker than the Main Covenant during the war.


 * Also even if you guys disagree with me on this as a whole, there is no evidence CONFIRMING that it is a CRS cruiser. Yes it is stated that the CRS looks like the CCS, but that is far from proving it and as such the page for the CRS should should mention that it might be these ships in H4 in the notes instead of outright stating that it is when never confirmed by 343 in any way (really its just speculation). VARGR (talk) 16:46, 9 January 2013 (EST)


 * As I said under this discussion, there is no way that can be anything other than a CCS-class cruiser. You're misunderstanding scale properties. If you put the CAS-class in the same position, it would literally be the same size as the Infinity, so in retrospect the CCS is proportionate with the Infinity - the CCS is 1 mile+ long while the Infinity is 3.5 mile+ long. It just looks big because of the smaller cruisers buzzing by in the foreground and because the ship is facing perpendicular to the Infinity (the CCS's length is longer than the Infinity's width).-- Killamint  [Comm |Files ] 17:55, 9 January 2013 (EST)

Has someone like Loftus done a size comparison yet between that rammed cruiser and the Infinity? I thought earlier we were speculating it was an ORS-class cruiser. Tuckerscreator (stalk ) 19:55, 9 January 2013 (EST)

38 lightyears per day
Previously, it was listed that on the flood infested CCS crusier's page that it was capable of traveling 38 light years per day via slipspace. Is there a source for that statement? Jabberwock xeno (talk) 16:50, 3 June 2013 (EDT)


 * I believe the lack of a source was why that was removed.--Emblem 1.jpg  Rusty - 112  Admin  comm 17:27, 3 June 2013 (EDT)