Talk:Fall of Reach

Why didn't the Covenant glass Reach much sooner?
I understand that the Covenant sent a small battlegroup lead by a cloaked Assault Carrier to Reach, in order to do things such as secure the information at the Visegrad Relay and Sword Base, but why wait so long until bringing the rest of the fleet to start glassing? Surely the Covenant could just glass everything in sight other than the 'data-retrieval areas' like Sword Base, instead of using things like Corvettes to attack New Alexandria? Is the idea that the Covenant would be putting themselves in danger to glass straight away because surface-level defenses (of which I can't think of many), orbital defenses and the UNSC fleet could still destroy them? Do the Covenant really have to wipe out every single UNSC defense before glassing? I'm confused... AlexB1001 10:36, 9 December 2010 (EST)


 * I assume that they do so for safety. We see the cruisers over New Alexandria get pretty close, and even in Halo 3 the ships are right above the target, not in orbit - presumably, if there were still an organised UNSC force down there they might be able to organise a MAC strike, rockets, missiles, artillery, etc, and hit the cruiser while it's vulnerable. The Covenant can probably spare the ships, but the future Arbiter is playing it smart, conserving his assets until he can use them.


 * The actual invasion is because, as always, the Covenant have trouble telling humans apart from Forerunner artefacts on their Luminaries, and assume that there must be at least some artefacts in human population centres. They go in to get them, find nothing but terrified humans, assume they've been destroyed and start killing the "heretics". There's also the fact that they might not know just how extensive the Forerunner presence on the planet it - there's the Sword Base ruins, and those under Castle Base, but how much more is there? Naturally the Covenant would want to be dead sure, before risking hitting holy relics. --  Specops306   Autocrat     Qur'a 'Morhek   15:33, 9 December 2010 (EST)
 * I always assumed that they were also trying to find human star charts, or the Elites simply wanted to give the Minors a chance to get some kills and up themselves to Major. -- SFH 17:54, 9 December 2010 (EST)

So essentially the game consists of you fighting an advance Covenant force trying to find Forerunner relics (did the Zealot Elites actually take any valuable information from the Visegrad relay?), then scouting out this advance force, fighting this force alongside a large UNSC force (Battle of Viery), uncovering the cloaked Assault Carrier, which then proceeds to destroy UNSC vessels. Then you blow up the Assault Carrier, but at this point the Covenant send a huge fleet in. It is at this point I am confused - in the level Exodus, why do the Covenant go through such trouble with sending in troops, setting up comm jammers, and sending in Banshees, Phantoms and Corvettes? Why don't they just start glassing straight away? Regardless, then the game consists of the glassing starting for real, doubled with the defense of Halsey in Sword Base in order to secure the 'package' and bringing it to the Pillar of Autumn before the whole damn world is glassed. That mostly makes sense... is the point that in levels like Exodus the Covenant is waiting for 'artifacts' to be found or not found, or that they are fighting in the skies, destroying all orbital defenses and UNSC forces that threaten them so they can start glassing proper without the risk of being shot down (as the level Pillar of Autumn shows, a single MAC round can take down a Covenant ship while glassing). AlexB1001 04:59, 10 December 2010 (EST)


 * I think it may be a mix of both waiting for new artifact discoveries and clearing before glassing. As technologically advanced as the Covenant may seem, they are still vulnerable to counter-ops, especially when there are "demons" nearby. The infantry in Exodus were probably used to clear out UNSC ground forces who are capable of fighting back. Comm jammers, of course, were there to prevent the UNSC ground forces from forming a proper counter-op that included other elements of their forces (i.e. the Air Force). From the Covenants' perspective, who knows what surface-to-air weapons the UNSC has lying in wait hidden in their grand cities? The proper thing would be to have a thorough scavenge with ground forces before leaving your ships open to hiding hostiles. I hope it's clear what I'm trying to say because I'm writing this late at night.--1221751884 I-animated-this-for-you.gifEnder the Xenocide 1221751884 I-animated-this-for-you.gif 05:47, 10 December 2010 (EST)
 * Makes sense. At that point, the Covenant still didn't know much about the humans, and so it would be a bad idea to rush in and start glassing. Another quick question I had - it really never made Cortana's role very clear. It appears only 'part' of her was with Halsey, so she could get the Forerunner information... What was the Forerunner information? Was it information about Installation 04 that caused Cortana's 'random jump' into Slipspace per the Cole Protocol actually be a directed one there? So essentially the Forerunner complex under Sword Base was actually behind the discovery which lead Master Chief to the ring and actually saved humanity? AlexB1001 07:42, 10 December 2010 (EST) EDIT: this can't be the case, since Cortana's page states "However, Cortana secretly inserted coordinates translated from symbols on a rock that Master Chief discovered on Sigma Octanus IV, thinking that they were of some significance to the Covenant." So what was the purpose of this Forerunner information? Was it even helpful? AlexB1001 07:44, 10 December 2010 (EST)


 * Wait, are you talking about the Forerunner information from Sigma Octanus IV or from the artifact under Sword Base?--1221751884 I-animated-this-for-you.gifEnder the Xenocide 1221751884 I-animated-this-for-you.gif 07:51, 10 December 2010 (EST)
 * My question is the purpose of the artifact under Sword Base. Why was it so important Cortana gain its information? It can't be that the information that it gave directed Cortana to jump to the Halo ring, because that was information from Sigma Octanus IV... So what relevance does it have to the game? It seems a bit random that you'd spend so long defending and transporting a discovery that has no real implications for the what is to come (the jump to Installation 04)... AlexB1001 08:15, 10 December 2010 (EST)


 * My interpretation is that the artifact under Sword Base helped Cortana decrypt the navigational information from the previously-indecipherable Sigma Octanus artifact. Or the other way around. --Jugus (Talk  | Contribs ) 08:20, 10 December 2010 (EST)

Halo: Reach - retcon or actually consistent?
As I'm reading Halo: The Fall of Reach right now, it seems near-impossible that the 'pre-battle' (the first encounter with the Elite strike team at the Visegrad Relay all the way to the arrival of the second Covenant fleet, where the 'fall of Reach' in the novel begins) that was shown in Halo: Reach is actually plausible. How would a massive Covenant attack force, leading to huge ground battles (the Battle of Viery and the Siege of New Alexandria) and space battles (Operation: UPPER CUT and all warfare until the second fleet arrived) just be hid from the rest of the galaxy? How would the Remote Scanning Outpost Fermion's crew be so surprised when it was apparent that a Covenant fleet was incoming (in the book, their surprise it clearly from the fact there IS a Covenant fleet, not ANOTHER)? Why would the Pillar of Autumn and other ships near the planet not have instantly been notified?

If this is actually plausible, there must be a huge flaw in the UNSC chain of command. How can the UNSC army, marines, navy, ONI, and even high command (all present and active in the game) all be involved in this huge battle, while the second Covenant fleet arriving is such a huge shock?

Another very inconsistent piece of canon is the Halo: Reach announcement trailer. This Halopedia page shows that the events of the trailer take place AFTER the level 'The Package', but by then Kat is dead - yet she appears in the trailer? In fact, at this point Noble Team isn't ready for combat at all (Carter says in the trailer "This is Sierra Two-Five-Nine. You've got Spartans on the ground, sir. We're not going anywhere."), but instead Emile, Carter and Noble-6 are busy trying to reach the ship-breaking facility where the Pillar of Autumn is docked at, and Jun is escorting Halsey to CASTLE base (where she is operating in the novel, so this is consistent). A more obvious point is that the dialogue within the Fermion states that pings are occurring below the Orbital Defense Grid (Covenant ships deploying dropships to land on Reach), and Reach Station Gamma replies this is impossible, but why would seem to be impossible (be such a big shock), since (1) it has already happened a fair few times since the invasion of Reach has started (e.g. by the Covenant Supercarrier 'Long Night of Solace') and (2) this event takes place in the novel long after the UNSC fleet deploys at Rally Point Zulu and starts fighting the incoming second Covenant fleet (so it's not like the Covenant suddenly arrived from Slipspace to below the Orbital Defense Grid, to the surprise of all UNSC forces - the second fleet firstly arrived outside the Orbital Defense Grid, attacking ships and Orbital Defense Platforms, and then some ships made precise jumps within the grid to deploy dropships).

Moreover, in the novel, when dropships are sent to Reach from the Covenant fleet, Master Chief notes that the 'invasion of Reach has started'. Of course this is untrue. These would by no means be the first dropships to go to Reach. This can be seen as Master Chief being unaware that most of the events of Halo: Reach have occurred, but once again it doesn't feel right. The game Halo: Reach should have stated somehow that the news of the invasion was strangely withheld from huge amounts of UNSC personnel (though I'm sure people on Reach would have been able to contact people on other planets, thus rendering this idea very improbable). AlexB1001 06:34, 26 December 2010 (EST)


 * Sorry for the blunt frankness, but yes, it's a retcon. Bungie thought the actual battle of Reach from the novel wasn't epic enough, so they changed it to a more drawn out invasion instead of a short but massive space and ground battle.

Why would Ct. Keyes doom 20+ Spartans on a ride in a pelican if he had to land anyway? how did they land the POA? why was red team defending generators when the planet had begun being glassed two weeks before that and apperently they weren't useful in this case because Jorge shouldn't of died? Why was Dr. Halsey so sure of Noble Team when she should and could of relied on her Spartans since they should of been on the planet? and lastly does anyone know the new or actual date Master Chief got his Mark V armor since the old date he got it the covenant were glassing the planet and fighting the UNSC ALL over the Planet?06:25, 22 January 2011 (EST)Carter06:25, 22 January 2011 (EST)

Plus since the unsc send around 60% of it fleet in the system and nothing as been said about what happen to them. Im also certain that 152 ships doesnt represent the said 60%. Once again It look like that in the game the fleet of particular justice arrive just after the destruction of the LNoS has implied by Holland "It the whole damm covenant fleet." To me the event of august 30th have been retconned C F 0 0 1 11:10, 2 August 2011 (EDT)


 * Not necessarily. That could just be another fleet of a dozen ships to reinforce whatever is left of the scout after discovering the LNoS's destruction. Reinforcement ships were on their way to stop the Covenant and would arrive shortly after the Covenant fleet's. Furthermore we should take into consideration that the Covenant were attacking other planets, too, making the Reach attack force less than the number of Covenant ships in-system. The UNSC was still holding back well into August- it could be that Particular Justice arrived much later to take advantage of the already-weakened UNSC fleet. Answering other questions, John did not receive MJOLNIR armour in August 2552; he was undergoing improvements to his neural interface to allow Cortana into it. Mark V was already issued. Red team was taken out of RED FLAG to defend the ODGs-even if they were called right before the Autumn went groundside they'd still need a dropship.--  Fore  run  ner '' 12:52, 2 August 2011 (EDT)

I was thinking something else. In Halo: The Fall of Reach, in the very back of the book when Jacob is saying that his men don't know what's going on down there, and if I knew that I was one trip away from seeing Miranda again, etc. I was under the impression that Keyes knew about what was going on at Reach already, and that everybody else didn't know what was happening. So I guess most of the higher-ups knew about the invasion when it began. But they just tried to keep it on the down-low for some reason (maybe morality reasons, HighCom wanted to keep the situation as under-control as possible before blowing the horn. But that's still a really crappy reason). So the whole surprise wasn't that the Covenant were on Reach. The surprise was, "OMG, 700 fucking Covenant ships just jumped from Slipspace." After the Long Night of Solace was destroyed. But then that brings up something annoying. 1st of all. If HighCom didn't keep it on the down-low, it was possible that the UNSC may have had more time to prepare against the main assault. Also, if we say that the 700 ships was the "main attack" at the Fall of Reach, then should we update the article to put everything before that as events leading up to the Fall of Reach? Vegerot ( talk )  15:38, 2 August 2011 (EDT)!

Hurricane??
Where is it said that ther is a hurricane, guys?

Sign your posts!!! Did u not play reach? You see the hurricane during the cutscene when the sabre is launching during the level long night of solace!!!-Forgive My English 11:23, 11 March 2011 (EST)

UNSC victory? Uhh No.
Why the heck does it say the battle was partly a UNSC victory. It wasn't? While the information in the outcomes section should stay, it should not be under the subheaded declaring a partial UNSC victory. SomethingDifferent 02:05, 15 April 2011 (EDT)

Maybe, because they managed to escape with the pillar of autumn intact and score a crushing victory on 04 which would turn the tide in the human-covenant war in the unsc's favour? I dunno :) --CookieMonstersayshello 17:10, 5 August 2011 (EDT)


 * I wouldn't call the Autumn escaping a success, though it's probably as debatable as the Allied 'victory' in the Battle of France. Perhaps we should decide on when and when not to call an outcome a 'victory' .--  Fore  run  ner '' 17:36, 5 August 2011 (EDT)

Id class it as a minor victory myself, it was crucial that they escaped as they as i said before did go on to score a crushing decisive victory on alpha halo which fractured the covie leadership. --CookieMonstersayshello 17:49, 5 August 2011 (EDT)

It's been changed to a Covenant victory. In the outcome section though, it does state state everything that happened. Honestly though, the Pillar of Autumn escaping was way more important than the fleet being lost and Reach being glassed. Why? Well, the Pillar escaping prevented the entire galaxy from being devoid of life. And the Chief's actions there also prevented the flood from escaping and taking over every being in the world. Soooo... yeah. I'd much rather Reach be lost. pestilence  Phil,  pestilence!  19:22, 5 August 2011 (EDT)


 * It's insignificant if looking at the battle, solely - Cortana didn't know where they were going and there was no battle plan beyond just running away. Hitler was an insignificant participant in the Battle of Passchendaele and his injury, although notable, is irrelevant to Germany's defeat. The Autumn leaving is unnecessary as a 'UNSC victory' as it was of little relevance to the battle.--  Fore  run  ner '' 20:56, 5 August 2011 (EDT)


 * I wasn't saying it was significant to the battle. However, it was significant to the war as a whole. So yes, the UNSC lost. I'm not debating that. I'm actually agreeing with what is already written. Without a doubt, it is worth noting in the outcome section. pestilence   Phil,  pestilence!  21:00, 5 August 2011 (EDT)


 * I agree, it's a Passchendaele Hitler. It's worthless if the outcome is summarised (eg. The outcome field of the Infobox) but is notable in a more in-depth analysis.--  Fore  run  ner '' 21:08, 5 August 2011 (EDT)

I see what you mean.. --CookieMonstersayshello 07:38, 6 August 2011 (EDT)

Phil said: "Well, the Pillar escaping prevented the entire galaxy from being devoid of life. And the Chief's actions there also prevented the flood from escaping and taking over every being in the world. Soooo... yeah. I'd much rather Reach be lost." Soooo, no. If the Pillar of Autumn didn't jump to Halo, then the Covenant wouldn't have found it... So no, your point holds no weight. In fact, if the Covenant didn't attack Reach, there is a chance that Cortana and the Office of Naval Intelligence may have discovered the data in the rock at Sigma Octanas and have been able to jump to Installation 04 without the Covenant following them (all they needed to do was take a second look at the rock, as that was all Cortana needed to do). Which would have given them time to digest and take samples of all the data and technology at Installation 04, arguably jumping humanity forward more than finding the Prothean cache on Mars. I don't know man, but it keeps me up at night. Vegerot ( talk )  21:27, 6 August 2011 (EDT)

Dont keep saying that Vegerot. --CookieMonstersayshello 04:59, 7 August 2011 (EDT)


 * Firstly, a little OT, but as per CMSH, if you could make that part of your sig proper it would be helpful. At the moment, it just looks like you're trying to make it a catch phrase like "brooklyn rage". And being much less successful. Perhaps change the font, the size or the colour of it to differentiate it from the rest of your test?


 * Secondly, it's clear that the Covenant were already at Halo when the Pillar of Autumn arrived, and in fact were just as surprised to find the Pillar of Autumn there as the Autumn crew were to find a Covenant armada holding orbital positions around a piece of astroengineering brilliance. Keyes and Cortana conjectured that the Covenant followed them through slipspace from Reach, and overshot because the Covenant have "always been faster". On the other hand, the Covenant Prophet in The Flood assumes that the Autumn itself followed them. Both sides think the other followed them. We still don't know precisely how the Covenant found Halo, though the Sigma Octanus artefact and information gained from the Reach ruins probably had something to do with it, since that was what led Cortana there. If the Autumn hadn't escaped Reach, the Covenant would have been unopposed on Halo as they meddled where they didn't belong, and unleashed things beyond their ability to contain. We know the future Arbiter was no slouch, and put containment and isolation measures in place to try to contain the Flood - and perhaps Guilty Spark would have reached out with an offer of tentative alliance with the meddlers to ensure the enforcement of containment protocol. But I don't think in the long term they would have been very successful, and neither would the Covenant ever think of destroying the Halo ring. If the Autumn hadn't carried the Chief to Halo, the Flood would have escaped eventually, dooming everyone. --  Specops306   Autocrat     Qur'a 'Morhek   07:49, 7 August 2011 (EDT)

Look on the Main Page's talk page. I'm trying to figure out how to do that, I really am. I don't know man, but it keeps me up at night. Vegerot ( talk )  13:11, 7 August 2011 (EDT)

July 25th
According to H3:R, the Fall of Reach took place on the 25th, not the 24th of July, 2552.H3:R This suggests that the battle officially began on the 25th, and that events that transpired on the 24th were those that lead to the battle. As such, I'm planning to update this article using content from H3:R and introduce a newer layout. Any comments before I do so? — subtank  09:49, 5 June 2011 (EDT)


 * I agree, with one exception: the invasion actually began on the 23rd. The Covenant made landfall on the night of July 23rd and shut down the Visegrád communications relay. However, the sabotage of the relay and Noble Team's investigation the following day were classified. The UNSC officially declared the invasion on July 25th. They claimed that it ended on August 30th, when the planet ultimately fell. In reality, pockets of resistance lasted until September 7th. So, the Fall of Reach actually lasted from July 23rd to September 7th. However, like you said, the dates given on the memorial plaque are the official dates given by the UNSC. --Courage never dies. 17:11, 5 June 2011 (EDT)


 * We'll treat those as events leading up to the Fall. — subtank  17:30, 5 June 2011 (EDT)