Halopedia:Requests for adminship/RelentlessRecusant

Resolution: RelentlessRecusant and other users have been granted rollback status by the Admins.

Hello! Okay...Wikia staff is considering granting me administrative access to Halopedia...they've advised me to start this forum and take a vote...should RelentlessRecusant be an administrator? =D


 * Over 10,000 edits (most edits on site, Esemono has 9,000+)
 * Co-founder of the Covenant of Halopedia
 * Created many templates, most notably - organizational templates and infoboxes
 * Created/edited my fair share of articles, especially starships
 * Editor since August 2006 (8 months, w00t! =D)
 * Created Halopedia Forums
 * Created Project Userbox, which is the source for the userboxes that users use now. =D
 * Repeated vandal fighting
 * Halopedian of the Month for January 2007

What caused this? Okay. I've been fighting vandals for a long time now, and am extremely frustrated by their tauntings and my inability to do anything rather than revert their edits manually and say "bug off". However, with administrative access, I will be able to automatically revert their edits and ban them permanently. Seeing that I'm on Halopedia probably about as much or even more as all three of the administrators combined, I could greatly aid vandal fighting efforts. I could imagine Ryanngreenday, another of our vandal fighters, similarly frustrated.

This was precipitated by a vandal attack in the morning of March 25, 2007 (Saturday). I was incredibly fed up, and asked Wikia administration for this promotion. This is solely so I can greatly aid vandal fighting efforts and keep Halopedia the clean place it is today, not for any other reason. I promise you that if you vote for me, and I am promoted, that I will work my hardest to improve Halopedia as I already am.

Cheers,

Rainbow Six Vegas  - Frag 'n Clear ]]-  - Smoke 'n Clear ]]-  -  Suppressors On  - 18:09, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
 * If all you want is the ability to do [rollback] and "automatically revert their edits" then why don't you get the Wikia Admin staff to grant you [rollback] status or fix the Special:Giverollback page? -- Esemono 01:33, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Update: Special:Giverollback should be fixed now. G .He (Talk!) 01:14, 29 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Update: RR has been granted rollback status by Esemono. --  Manticore  [[Image:Fleet Admiral.jpg|25px]] TalkundefinedCSV 06:26, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

For

 * 1) --Jack Phoenix (Contact) 18:17, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 2) --Kwarsh [[image:Gruntiness.jpeg|35px]][ Talk to me! ] - [ Stuff I've done! ] 18:47, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 3)  G .He (Talk!) 19:07, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 4) Spartan G-23 15:12 March 25 2007
 * 5) [[Image:UoH.gif|15px]] [[Image:Navy Vice Admiral.PNG|20px]] The  Lieutenant   General  19:15, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 6) Gerzam [[Image:Gerzam.jpg |20px]] [Communications] [Past Battles] 19:20, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 7) Silenced Nighthawk ( Comlink )( Past Missions ) 20:01, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 8) Bloody Hell (I'm allowed to say that, right?) RR an admin? May the Vandals be prepared. Just don't let this go to your head. For RR -- TheObviousOne 20:31, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 9) Yeah, you can say that. I, at least, have no objection. -- Dragonc laws ( talk ) 21:22, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 10) Donut THX 1138 [[Image:Capt Donut.PNG|32px]] [ Comm ] - [ CoH ] - [ 'Nodotee ] 20:48, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 11) Why not, Peace.--The Chazz025 and Clan 20:51, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 12) Master Gunnery Sergeant Hank J Wimbleton IV COM 20:52, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 13) Mr. WOZ $  20:52, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 14) He is a good admin on Gearspedia, I know he will be good here. Darth tader,Talk to the Tader,My work 20:55, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 15) Shoe shot 21:20, 25 March 2007 (UTC) Of course, RR pwns
 * 16) --John010117 23:42, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 17) Excuse me, did you think i wouldn't? Respect them Grunts, --Mouse [[Image:Heroic.jpg|30px]] Squeak to meh. See where I've eaten cheese.
 * 18) He saved me when I was new...OH, Wait, I still am! UP WITH RR!!! SPARTAN-118
 * 19) SPARTAN-001  [AI•CSV] [[Image:Spikers.jpg|40px]] 14:15, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 20) I am definitely for RR becoming an admin.  I won't list all of my reasons, but here are a few,
 * In my opinion RR is the most community minded user, personally welcoming as many people as he can, and making a new person feel welcome, and that he is an important part of the group.
 * His templates have become invaluable to the entire wiki, without them many of our articles would be messy, hard to read, and much longer than they need to.
 * Etc.
 * Etc.

Now, many of those against RR have brought up some things,
 * First off, Dragonclaws has stated that RR is biased, because he might dislike Esemono. If this is so, this is not biase, this is an honest case of one user disliking another.  There is nothing wrong with this.  If one user has offended another, or even just annoyed for a really long time, it is perfectly clear that this user would not like the other.  I know there are users on halopedia I do not really like (won't name any names) but only because, in my opinion, they earned it.
 * Ed had a good point, Edit counts don't mean anything. Um, exactly, I know I am not voting for RR for his edit count, I am voting for him for his contributions and community mindedness.  Ed says he only has about 5000 edits.  But in my opnion, they are good ones.  Ed also said that if we were giving adminship to any user with that many edits we'd be overrun.  But we are not just nominating RR for his edits, but for other things he has done (too much to name).

Thanks for your time, Dockman
 * Esemono brought up the point of the 5000 edits. To the point of adminship, Yes RelentlessRecusant has done many, many things for Halopedia, but, in my opinion, Donut THX 1138, Caboose, Manticore, Rot, Ryanngreenday and GPT have too. If this goes through, the same reasoning could be applied to admiship for them, and it could be easily said that they deserve it for the exact same reasons. We do not need a new admin, the way things are currently working, we have 3 admins who work closely together and get everything that needs doing done. -ED 21:09, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * And I would like to point out that none of those people save Ryanngreenday have applied for adminship. I for one am not interested in becoming an admin here. Sure, I did some nice things (though I can't remember them...perhaps my name's on there by mistake...), but I'm not applying for adminship. And if everything was working the way it needed to, there certainly wouldn't be so much strife and arguing going on.
 * --Master Gunnery Sergeant Hank J Wimbleton IV COM 03:52, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The reason for all the strife is that things were fine before. Vandalism is just as common and severe as before, and it is still dealt with quickly and efficently. So why are we pretending it has suddenly become an unmanageable crisis? -ED 19:50, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

21:36, 26 March 2007 (UTC) 21:45, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) What? You deserve it. Envy  Skull  Effects 
 * 1) Shadow o f The Broken (D isencha nted Sou l)( The Plague Begins)
 * 1) Him helping out here and helping nubs and all that doesn't really mean anything; it's just that he's here a lot, so he'd be able to ban vandals nearly right away, respond to delete tags sooner, just little things like that, and our admins aren't here enough... no offense, it's just, yeah. As much as I would love to pwn RR by being an admin before him, he gets mah vote. <font color="#000000">G <font color="#770000">ü <font color="#cc0000">é <font color="#ff0000">ß <font color="#ff3333">Ł <font color="#ff6666">¥ -<font color="#9999ff">∏ <font color="#6666ff">é <font color="#3333ff">Ґ <font color="#0000ff">∫ <font color="#0000cc">ø <font color="#000066">ñ <font color="#000000">¥ -<font color="#000000">† <font color="#007700">ħ <font color="#00cc00">î <font color="#00ff00">И <font color="#44ff44">g <font color="#99ff99">¥  22:34, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Right. I am constantly here and constantly block vandals and undo their work almost inststantly, not that I am ever recognized for it in any way. Check the block log against vandalism and tell me we aren't here enough. -ED 22:37, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I said no offense. I'm not saying you don't do your job as an admin; I'm saying that sometimes none of the admins are on during a vandal crisis, and it would just help to have another. Anyway, as for recognition, check your talk page. <font color="#000000">G <font color="#770000">ü <font color="#cc0000">é <font color="#ff0000">ß <font color="#ff3333">Ł <font color="#ff6666">¥ -<font color="#9999ff">∏ <font color="#6666ff">é <font color="#3333ff">Ґ <font color="#0000ff">∫ <font color="#0000cc">ø <font color="#000066">ñ <font color="#000000">¥ -<font color="#000000">† <font color="#007700">ħ <font color="#00cc00">î <font color="#00ff00">И <font color="#44ff44">g <font color="#99ff99">¥  03:09, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

MIL AI-24AX89Z''']]   (SPARTAN-001) (Contact) <ENDTRANSMISSION> 17:26, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) [[User:MIL AI-24AX89Z|''' DARKEST  NIGHT

Comments
Good lord, RR, a Wikia admin thinks you should be an Admin.
 * See ya,
 * --Kwarsh [[image:Gruntiness.jpeg|35px]][ Talk to me! ] - [ Stuff I've done! ] 19:09, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Good luck! The  Lieutenant   General  19:15, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Good luck getting to be an admin. Silenced Nighthawk ( Comlink )( Past Missions ) 20:01, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

RR helped me a lot and helps the Noobs. He ought to be an Admin and he WILL help a lot with the vandal problem. UP WITH RR!!! -- SPARTAN-118 02:15, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

My two cents is as follows: I can understand both sides of the vote here. I can understand RR and his supporters. I also understand how the naysayers feel. "That with great power comes great responsibility." I understand the concerns that any individual, even if he shows the most self control on the face of the planet, can abuse the power that is handed to them.

That being said, I am leaning a smidgen to the For side of the argument. RR don't make me decide to change my vote. "With great power comes great responsibility" Remember Uncle Ben -- TheObviousOne 20:45, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

He deserves it. Good luck, RR. Mr. WOZ $  20:51, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

You deserve it, RR. Although I agree to somewhat what Dragonclaws said, I trust that you would do well, as long as it doesen't go to your head. Social Power can be good, if held by the right person who knows what they're doing with it. He would do well against vandals, which is why he is running. He seems to have what it must take to be an Admin. But, once again, I understand what Dragonclaws means. Many, icluding myself, have seen RR as an excelent candidate for adminship. Hopefully, if there still is a problem between Esemono and him, they will come closer by working together. I don't look at Edit count, I look at how helpful they are, which he has prooven to be quite helpful to pretty much everyone, except vandals. :P Good luck RR!--Gerzam  [Communications] [Past Battles] 21:06, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

RR, You deserve to be an admin here. I know you'll do a great job of fighting against vandals. RR ftw! --John010117 23:42, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Being one of the longest-lasting active Halopedian(contributing anonymously in the fall of '05 and finally setting up an account in february '06)s, preceded only by ED and Dragonclaws (I forget when Esemono joined), I have seen many changes to this wikia. Back then, before the move, Dragonclaws and ED were the only active admins and vandalism was rampant (Past Halopedia vandalism >>>>>March 25 vandal attack). RR has caused many changes to this Halo Wiki, becoming immensely popular among many of the users. To me, he is one of the key users in helping to reorganize this wikia and make it more user-friendly. I think, though, that the fanfiction articles are starting to get too popular, with most of the recent changes being these articles. I agree that RR has done many good things for Halopedia, but I also agree that he might be getting too much power. Users such as ED and Dragonclaws are no doubt deserving of their admins, with Dragonclaws probably being the only reason Halopedia is here today and ED, who tirelessly worked his *** off to fix all the little spelling errors and stubs that have been the bane to Halopedia without asking for any recognition or glory. Because of RR's contributions to Halopedia in the past, he should be given a shot at Admin. On one condition though, he must always try to be as neutral and friendly as possible to all users, friend and foe alike. If there is evidence to support any abuse of his administrative power, he must step down as an admin and create a new account on Halopedia.Haloman333 23:21, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Something everyone should put into their mind, if the Halo Wiki Bureaucrats don't think that RR should be made a sysop. Then he probably won't be. Remember, wikis aren't democratic. Just some info.--H*bad 03:24, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Neutral

 * 1) I choose to remain neutral in order to avoid developing conflicts-- Caboose  [[Image:Caboose.jpg|35 px]]  Orange Juice  and  Cookies  19:34, 25 March 2007 (UTC)


 * 1) I don't want to get in trouble with the users that are Against and the users that are With RR. I'd rather stay friends to all of you! =D

Terror (Talkie Talkie)(Workie Workie)|undefined


 * I'm too new to Halopedia politics to make an intelligent decision. -Chickenman 22:57, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Against
1.) NO, I have almost 3000 edits and as Esemono onece said to me, Rlentess Does NOT ues the preview button and that i probly had more edits then him. I Created/edited my fair share of articles to, mostly all the ranks and also made afew templates. I mad tons of userboxes and fought of many many vandels, I stay up very late on haloepdia so i to am on more then all the admits too, and on more then one time stayed up all night with out sleep on halopedia fighting vandels and making userboxes. I was the second halopedian of the month, so if he can be an admit i think i could be to.-- M  E   The  <font color="Maroon">Gre <font color="Maroon'">a <font color="Maroon">t  18:41, 25 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Oh and we started at almost the same time on halopedia.-- M  E   The  <font color="Maroon">Gre <font color="Maroon'">a <font color="Maroon">t 18:42, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

2.) I have my concerns about RR becoming an admin do to his apparent biases. While he claims not to have anything against Esemono, I still have my doubts based on the kinds of things he posts. When I specifically brought it up not to long ago, he was quick to deny it and not long after posted on Esemono's talk page a long list of people he thought were posting false votes against Esemono's competitor Forerunner in HotM. I have to wonder if he knew about them beforehand but didn't say anything until he had an interest in looking friendly toward Esemono. RR carries a lot of social power on Halopedia, and were he to be put in a position of authority this would greatly increase. Fine if he were wholy rational and good-natured, but I have reason to be afraid that Halopedia may become a place where minority viewpoints (ie. people who don't agree with RR) are suppressed in favor of RR-led majority.


 * I'm sorry if I've offended you, RR. That is not my wish at all. I just feel that if we are to discuss whether or not RR should be made an admin that I cannot remain silent on my opinions regarding this matter. -- Dragon<font color="FF0000">c laws ( talk ) 20:24, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

3.) It's true what Ryan has said about RR's edit count he has been told by the admin staff to stop inflating his edit count by refusing to use show preview button, but he has refused. Also a break down of his count shows that most of his edits are on User pages which means RR edits are mostly from adding FanFiction, now banned, on Halopedia via his FanFiction, RPGs and talking to other users.


 * If we are to subtract RRs FanFiction edits and his refusal to use the SHOW PREVIEW button I'd say his edits are around 5000. If we're to give everyone who has 5000 edits then we'll have over a hundred admins.  Then Halopedia will become the classic example of to many cooks in the kitchen.


 * I'll be the first to say RR is a nice guy, while I understand that most users like him because he is the first person they talk to I also ask them to look to the past. RR has a history of unstable behavior that I fear he would use to attack other users that disagree with him.  One only has to look at when angry about an issue RR erased his account and in a over dramitic scene told everyone he was never coming back.  We don't admins who will strike in anger or run away in protest.  We need calm rational admins to do things for the good of Halopedia not someone who wants more power.  Do you want an Admin who forced their way into power? -- Esemono 01:09, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

4.) I'm going to have to agree with Ryanngreenday. Edit counts do not mean anything, and there are many easy ways to inflate one's edit count, intentionally or unintentionally. I also disagree with this idea for the following reasons: Obviously, I think RelentlessRecusant is a good person and an exceptional user, but I will give the most honest critique of all users who apply for adminship that I can. I'm not dead set on my ways, so if I can be convinced that it is a good idea, I won't have a problem with it. -ED 02:22, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) Contrary to what you all think, the 3 current admins are on Halopedia a lot, almost every day and frankly, Vandalism is nothing that is out of control. I think things are fine as they are, vandals never get too far without being blocked. We don't need a topheavy organization with too many admins and power games.
 * 2) I have considered suggesting we grant rollback privledges to users with a certain number of main page edits for this reason. Frankly, it is a stupid idea to antagonize vandals, because it gives them attention. Case study: User IPs that are sent a bunch of messages are much more likely to come back the day their ban expires, as opposed to the vandals who get bored because no one gives them any attention.
 * 3) The current reasoning of the "for" votes above is "sure, why not?" while the "against" votes raise some very strong points. I am of the opinion that in AgentSeethroo's absence/possible death, Dragonclaws is the head Admin here, and the issue of more admins should be his decision alone. That RelentlessRecusant chose to not even ask Dragonclaws for sysop rights and drag the Wikia admins into this issue is, frankly, a waste of their time. If I were in Dragonclaws' position, I would be insulted.
 * 4) RelentlessRecusant/RelentlessRogue has made several controversial actions in the past, some of which former users considered vandalism and had to be cleaned up during his absence from Halopedia last year. His record also includes a handful of questionable contributions both to old.halopeduia and this one.
 * 5) The current reasoning will create a gateway for a dozen other users to be admins.
 * Frankly, I don't mind #3. It never occured to me that it could be offensive. I just think it might be a bad idea. I don't think I should be considered the final word because that sounds like I'm infallible, which no human is. I'm offering my advice, but I make no claim to being above fallibility. I think the community aspect of wikis is important, and maybe Halopedia's lost its focus... I don't know, whatever. Sedatives are making it too hard to think clearly. I'll pick this up later. -- Dragon<font color="FF0000">c laws ( talk ) 10:23, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
 * You don't have to be the final word. You do, however, deserve the respect to be confronted about these things first, before a higher authority is appealed. You have been an admin here since before any user here even joined. I don't really know what you mean about the focus though. -ED 19:12, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
 * RR has asked us before, though, and hinted strongly after that. I meant that Halopedia has joined Wikia, yet it still acts like a seperate community. AgentSeethroo had the power to decide what direction to take Halopedia when he owned it, but as Wikia owns it now we shouldn't be stuck following his example. Sorry, I suppose my ramblings don't make much sense. I'm not sure I understand myself. "Meditate on this, I will." -- Dragon<font color="FF0000">c laws ( talk ) 19:28, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

5.) Just because someone has a lot of contribs doesn't mean anything, no offense RR, but your contribs are: Forum, Talk page, Fanfic, Reverts, and little bit of main space edits. Sorry, but I can't say For. Besides this wiki has a ton of users already that can block users and what not.--H*bad 12:55, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Would just like to point out that while RR does contribute quite a bit to Forum, Talk page, and Fanfic, his main edit count is still more than most people's edit count including Forum, Talk page, and Fanfic. I believe...Esemono or ED (bad memory + laziness) estimated his main edit count to be 3000. Just thought you ought know.
 * --Master Gunnery Sergeant Hank J Wimbleton IV COM 20:56, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

6.) Nope. Sorry, RR. I just don't think you are ready for this job yet. The fact that you can't get along with Esemono isn't good, seeing as (if you are appointed) he will be one of your co-admins. One of the people you have to work with VERY well. And, speaking as the person who talked you back from the brink, I think you might need to prove to the community that you can hold your cool in the face of insults and personal vendettas. I mean, you kinda went offa the deep end, mi compadre... Don't take this too personally, man. Maybe in a while you should be ready. For example, you are great at vandal fighting. And you don't need to be an admin to do that... Just go thru the proper channels. It's like being in the military. You can't really just ask for a promotion because you do something good. Again, do not take this personally.  SPARTAN-091   HelmetComm undefined Juliet  22:17, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

7.) relentless in my oppinion should not be an admin. if he is to come to power he will use it against me and ryanngreenday, i can garantee that. we also have hade our fude in the past and it was over nothing. in closing, RR is evil bent on halopedia domination.- this message brought to you by Gravemind
 * So basically what you're saying is that because you and RR had an argument and one point over something petty, he shouldn't be admin? Bullocks if you ask me. But then, we are each entitled to our opinion...I suppose
 * --Master Gunnery Sergeant Hank J Wimbleton IV COM 07:11, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Comments

 * Comment: Everyone makes a small spelling error every once now and then. But I think that perhaps that's not so bad thing. And rarely a wiki is democratic. It's majority what counts. If a majority of users wants RR to be admin - fair. If the majority of users doesn't want Ryanngreenday to become an admin - fair. And there's a reason why Wikia has an IRC channel and an IRC client aswell. It's so that you can alert staff about vandalism, as there's no point of losing your sleep over Wikia. Yes, Wikia can be addictive, but you need to learn when things are going too far. --Jack Phoenix (Contact) 19:15, 25 March 2007 (UTC)


 * No NO, he never used it, he saves the pages checks it over then edits it agian and keeps doing that several times, the admits told him to stop but he wouldnt.-- M  E   The  <font color="Maroon">Gre <font color="Maroon'">a <font color="Maroon">t 19:24, 25 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, can you say that you do that better? I don't think so, as your messages are full of spelling errors. A wiki is not an IRC channel. --Jack Phoenix (Contact) 19:41, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Like Ryan said its not about spelling. You can alway check your spelling with the SHOW PREVIEW button but RR has refused to use this even though he has been warned by the Halopedia Admin staff.  Plus there is the issue of how most of his edits almost a third are due to, RR writing of FanFiction on Halopedia something that is now banned.  RR is a great guy and a nice greeter to all new users.  By going everyones head he is able to force his way into Admin status then I can't do anything but work with him -- Esemono 01:19, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * It should be known here: Halopedia, like all wikis, is not a democracy. Things are determined by discussion, not "voting" because of the anonymous nature of the internet. We vote for some issues, but the bigger decisions are not up to vote. -ED 01:48, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

2. Yeah if Relentless becomes an admin, then so should Ryan. That would be fair.-- Joshua 029 19:00, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

It seems that the reason for the current oppositions is that Ryanngreenday should also become an admin. In that case, instead of opposing RR's nomination, you should probably start another nomination for Ryanngreenday, and see what others think of it. G .<font color="#666666">He <font color="midnightblue">(Talk!) 19:29, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
 * This is what I'm afraid of. If RR is able to force his way in then everyone who added a lot of FanFiction onto halopedia will be able to get an Admin spot. -- Esemono 01:14, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


 * So if I understand Ryanngreenday's argument correctly, he is saying that he is against RR being an admin because he isn't being considered for the position? Don't you have to apply for the position, because if so, it just means RR took the initiative where Ryan didn't. Ryan, if you want to be an admin, apply.
 * Thats not true. He isn't jelius. Its just with all of RR's crazy ideas about perm bans for minor offences. So thats why they're (RG and Josh) don't want RR to be an admin because they believe it would probably be chaotic.
 * --Master Gunnery Sergeant Hank J Wimbleton IV COM 20:54, 25 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Well i cant sat my real argumnet because i promised i wouldnt, but I am applying as of now, i'd be just as good as relentless but im not able to do any of the fancy forum page thingys or something because im indisposed at this curnet time.-- M  E   The  <font color="Maroon">Gre <font color="Maroon'">a <font color="Maroon">t 21:01, 25 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Dear Dragonclaws - actually, I haven't tried to deny tensions with Esemono in the past, even messaging him asking if there was anything I could change to solve it - "...is there any way I could change my personality...?" However, I believe that after this whole thing with the CoH triumvirate voting thing settled, that our relation has calmed a lot, and anyways, if I get administrative access, the current three have bureaucratic access, if you're concerned about power struggles.


 * Also, Dragonclaws, no offense taken. =D


 * Cheers,


 * Rainbow Six Vegas</tt> [[Image:R6V_1.jpg|20px]] - Frag 'n Clear ]]- [[Image:R6V_2.jpg|20px]] - Smoke 'n Clear ]]- [[Image:R6V_3.jpg|20px]] -  Suppressors On  - 21:11, 25 March 2007 (UTC)


 * As an outsider, I'm good at commenting these things. So, I think that admins/bureaucrats are forgetting one thing: admins are not "GodKings" or above normal users in any way. This, from an outsiders point of view, seems cabalistic. RelentlessRecusant is a devoted member of your community. He seems to be a very good contributor. The community consensus is very clear, in my opinion. 19 people have voted for on RR's adminship.


 * And it would be good if every user would use the preview button, yes. But what kind of a wiki is a wiki where you can't edit a page more than once? I tell you, it might be a website, but not a wiki.


 * From Common mistakes:


 * Even if you requested the wiki be created, you do not own it. The wikis are owned by the communities, not by any one user.


 * I'd suggest that everybody reads through Ownership and Common mistakes. w:Help:User access levels is also a helpful help page.


 * Summa summarum: If the community has decided that an user should be made an admin of the site, current buraucrats(/admins) can't ignore the community consensus just because they don't like the consensus.


 * After all, if a user later turns out to be irresponsible with the admin access, it may be removed by staff at any time.


 * Thank you. --Jack Phoenix (Contact) 14:15, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The chief difference here being that the user in question had made several questionable actions in the past, which are plainly laid out here and need to be resolved. Some of the items in question date before many of the "yes" voting users were part of Halopedia, and the concerns of the four "no" voters (who are four of the oldest community members) have not been dealt with. -ED 21:13, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Ok, so from what I can tell, the argument thus far is
 * 1) RR shouldn't be an admin because Ryan isn't.
 * 2) RR shouldn't be an admin because he posts lots of "fan fiction" and thus his edit count is really only half of what it is now.
 * 3) RR shouldn't be an admin because he has shown signs of unstable behavior in the past.
 * 4) RR shouldn't be an admin because his relationship with Esemono has seen better days.
 * 5) RR shouldn't be an admin because he has left in protest or lashed out in anger in the past.
 * 6) RR shouldn't be an admin because hundreds of users here have 5000 edits and that would be too many cooks in the kitchen.

Let's see.
 * 1) Do I even have to argue with this logic?
 * 2) I'd like to see some example of all this fan fiction, because from what I recall, other than a couple RPGs, RR wasn't really big on the fan fiction. Unless you count all that "fan fiction" in the Covenant starships that I later came around and proved was canon.
 * 3) This is a valid view point.
 * 4) It takes two to tango, and there are more than a few who think Esemono has overstepped his bounds in the little feud between the two. Therefore, by this logic, he should not be an admin.
 * 5) So what you are saying is because RR left for a few days he shouldn't be admin? And what of lashing out in anger. It happens. What about people who insult with sardonic insults? I can point out sarcasm being used in a rather insulting way by at least one of the admin here. Should he be demoted?
 * 6) Hundreds of users? I was unaware that there were hundreds of users with a 5000+ edit count. But then, is edit count the main factor in adminship? Did not the syspos here at one time have less than 500 edits? Did they not at one time have less than 1000 edits? Edit count is a nice plus, but is it a requirement, because if not, this logic is flawed

I miss any?
 * --Master Gunnery Sergeant Hank J Wimbleton IV COM 02:54, 27 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't know who said some of the above things, but I can respond with my perspective.
 * 1.) Agreed.
 * 2.) I have not seen a great deal of fanfiction from him, but I can remember one thing. Before Dojorkan outed the exact reason for the Honor Guard Councilor being a glitch, RelentlessRecusant was among the users who essentially invented the rank to explain it, even implying that it was a "test" without doing any research on it. That could be considered fanfiction. The RPG's could also be considered abuse of Halopedia because our rules clearly state that Halopedia is NOT a fanfiction site or a social network.
 * 3.) To me, this is the main issue.
 * 4.) Something you all don't seem to understand is Esemono's style. He is brisk and to the point. Here to edit, not socialize. He doesn't sugarcoat the things he has to say, he just says them. As far as I have seen, he has never resorted to insulting people for no good reason, and it can not be proven that he has had a "mean tone" to what he says. No one can prove any "tone" on the internet. We can only trust his words, and he has denied that he "hates" RelentlessRecusant, it is something he has been denying for months.
 * "Ahhh Kids with their over active imaginations. RR you keep trying to create this imaginary antagonistic relationship with me. Sorry to shatter your ego but I don't hate you, I don't have it out for you and I'm not out plotting your demise. Calm down and just have fun on this site!"

- Esemono 11:35, 27 February 2007 (UTC)


 * And as to how others feel about Esemono (at least on this particular issue), it is irrelavent. I have seen the steps he has taken to do things for the better of the wiki, and the behind the scenes consulting he has made with the other admins via e-mail on the Fanon issue, the CoH elections issue, etc. None of the major recent actions have been made without the knowledge and support of all the admins.
 * 5.) Leaving is not an issue in my mind. I come and go, we all come and go, and I doubt we will ever have a user who is always here. As to the anger part, I recall an accusation by another user where he was accused of making fanfiction on articles, and in response he made a big dramatic goodbye and left for 1 day. It didn't matter to me, but it was apperently a "maturity" issue to some people where instead of refuting the accusation and not worrying, he was so extreme in reacting. Once again, that's not a big deal to me either. As to your issue of sardonic insults, sarcasm is not the same as an outright insult (which I have never seen one of those from RelentlessRecusant, either) because you can never prove if someone is being sarcastic or not on the internet.
 * 6) agreed, edit count should not be an issue here. But I think there are only about a dozen people whose total edits are over 5000, and only four of us (RR and the three active admins) have more than 2000 "main" edits.
 * -ED 20:52, 27 March 2007 (UTC)


 * 4. My only point here is that in a way Esemono and RR are much alike, and since point four didn't apply to Esemono, it shouldn't apply to RR.
 * 5. I do remember RR's leave, and I would like to point out that it was more of an accusation that he addressed, and the accuser just kept on saying it, even though that person was contradicting his or her self. I would be fed up as and would have walked away from the situation. Perhaps not as dramatically, but I still would have been frustrated at my powerlessness to stop the person from being a jerk. I feel the same way about vandals.
 * --Master Gunnery Sergeant Hank J Wimbleton IV COM 02:32, 28 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I really don't want to intrude, but two items:
 * I direct your attention to The Right to Leave.
 * What "vandalism" have I done during my leave? You can see my leave...here. My "leave" was actually from 0845 hours to 1112 hours on December 7, 2006. That's...two and a half hours. A major haitus indeed.
 * I was never at the "old Halopedia". You must be thinking of someone else. My first week or so here and my several month haitus on Wookieepedia and away from Halopedia was spent as RelentlessRogue.
 * Later, all.
 * Cheers,
 * Rainbow Six Vegas</tt> [[Image:R6V_1.jpg|20px]] - Frag 'n Clear ]]- [[Image:R6V_2.jpg|20px]] - Smoke 'n Clear ]]- [[Image:R6V_3.jpg|20px]] -  Suppressors On  - 03:15, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
 * To YOUR two points which were directed to me: Hmm, it seems I was mistaken about you being at old.halopedia but the "leave" i was talking about was the one you made during August 13 - November 14 2006. That is, in fact, a "maor hiatus". You tagged every "ilovebees" article for deletion and placed templates on numerous pages without citing any reasons. Ilovebees was tagged as canon in July 2006. I won't name names, but some users came to Dragonclaws calling it vandalism. The accusation was never answered by you, and most of those edits had to be reverted. There are probably other instances other people are talking about, but that's one that comes to mind to me. -ED 21:18, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Regardless of ILB's canon-ness, which was not known at the time, is the fact that it was highly notable and Microsoft-produced. RR called it fanfiction and said it should be deleted, but whether or not it was canon was not the main issue in defending it. -- Dragon<font color="FF0000">c laws ( talk ) 21:30, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

RR FanFiction Edit Count

 * In regards to RR FanFiction Count it's not that he has contributed a lot of Fan Fiction, well more than the average user, but that his FanFiction and RPGs were very edit intesive. So in addition to refusing to using the SHOW PREVIEW button RR would often have to update his FanFiction library several times an hour.  In addition to that a lot of his user edits are him talking about his FanFiction.  That was what I meant when I said most of RR edits are FanFiction. -- Esemono 01:57, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Luckily, the edit counts don't matter at all, right? --Geoffron 23:37, 2 April 2007 (UTC)