Halopedia:UNSC of Halopedia/Council/Archive/H3 Rank System

UNSCOH Rank Proposal (Passed)
Voting for General RelentlessRecusant's UNSCOH Rank Proposal has now begun, please review it before voting.

Support
Something new and will make the UoH more like Halo 3's muliplayer, seems fitting since this is Halopedia.--Running  Riot  R  y  a  n  05:27, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

I've wanted a Halo 3 Multiplayer themed rank system in the UoH for a while, actually. General simon rj  h  14:32, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

As per my proposal. Regards, RelentlessRecusant  'o the Halopedia Team http://images.wikia.com/rainbowsix/images/7/73/GDI2.jpg TALK • MESSAGE 21:46, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

I still don't like the multi-tiered General rank...., but otherwise it's good. --forgottenlord 22:51, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Things to do

 * AJ and I have been fiddling around with some ideas on how best to put together the new rank badges (see the sandbox and his userpage). We're experimenting both with uploading new images and trying to reuse the already uploaded H3 images (the latter being our preference if we can pull it off).  I should note that I've already got a cropping for all of the ranks with possible exception to changes in the numbers we decide to use and they're ready to be uploaded at moment's notice if we decide to use them.  However, for now, playing around with templates and potential templates has proven entertaining.  Anyways, first question I have for you guys is: this is a chance to change the color scheme - do we want the same color scheme or a different one.  I'm rather indifferent to either. --forgottenlord 22:14, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * A few experimental color schemes: User:Sgt.johnson/UoH_Userbox --forgottenlord 22:26, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Comments
(As posted on the proposal page) Problems
 * 1) Seeing as we just voted to do away with hierarchical Security Council, having multi-staged General rank seems to run contradictory to the decision
 * 2) One thing I'd be interested to try is something similar to the CoH where it's two top promotion ranks are restricted ranks in terms of number of users that can have them. In our case, I was thinking that something like the Colonel rank could be used to that extent.  This actually provides an excellent framework to allow that - promotion to Colonel because you earned it and then the Grade 2 and Grade 3 are restricted for members who've displayed an exceptional amount of editing.  We could, also, instead make the General Grade 3 the Security Council elected position while Grade 1 and 2 are restricted ranks (or a combination of both, providing up to 4 restricted ranks).
 * 3) Rank translation gets a bit messed up. Right now, between Sergeant and Colonel, we have 6 ranks but under the new system, we're looking at 5 ranks - and considering that Commander is at the top, that's actually 4 ranks.
 * 4) If we do decide to translate our current officers up one rank, there's some question as to whether all of our current Majors should be shifted in the process - I wouldn't object to Ajax, the only one who got the rank because of contributions, moving up, but the retirees might be worth keeping where they are. I know Ryan has made comments along this line recently
 * 5) If we implement the system, we need to make it explicitly clear that just because someone has, say, 30 mainspace edits doesn't mean they'll be given a Corporal status if half of those edits are crap, just as someone who's made 5 large, high-quality edits may see an early promotion to Corporal.

--forgottenlord 06:53, 21 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Abstaining until these issues have been looked at --forgottenlord 17:51, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
 * See my reply to your comments on my proposal page. =] Cheers, RelentlessRecusant  'o the Halopedia Team http://images.wikia.com/rainbowsix/images/7/73/GDI2.jpg TALK • MESSAGE 21:46, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Colors (Closed, deadlocked)
Which do you think we should use?


 * Or the old way?

Maroon and Gold
Just looks better in my opinion General  Tony  Talk 10/23/2007

--forgottenlord 00:00, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Black and Orange
I kinda like the first one and the old way is good but with this one all the colours work and the background of the pics also go great with it.--Running  Riot  R  y  a  n  22:48, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

I really don't like the maroon. Maybe have gold instead of orange for the text? I like the colour scheme of these userboxes, which are very similar in design to this particular UoH one. General simon rj  h  09:58, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Old
- Classic. Regards, RelentlessRecusant  'o the Halopedia Team http://images.wikia.com/rainbowsix/images/7/73/GDI2.jpg TALK • MESSAGE 15:47, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Colors, runoff (Closed)
Because RR refuses to change his vote from the old version and remains annoyingly stubborn, we'll have to force him to change his vote by principle of a standard runoff vote. With the runoff, we disqualify the clear loser (in this case, the old version), and run another vote. This way, we can hopefully break the deadlock. Everyone does need to vote again, though. --forgottenlord 02:23, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Marroon and Gold
--forgottenlord 02:23, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

-- General  Tony  Talk 10/29/2007

Black and Orange
--General  Running  Riot  R  y  a  n  02:28, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

-- General simon  r  j h 10:03, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Colors alternate idea (Passed)
RR's verbally stated that he will not vote, so as such, CommanderTony and I have agreed to the following idea. The new userboxes have a common template that is set up with the color scheme. As such, changing the color scheme will only take a single revision. With this being the case and in the interest of getting this new rank structure in place, I'm proposing that we use the Black and Orange color scheme for now and then put it up for vote by the entire UNSC of Halopedia during the next term's leadership elections. Seeing as 4 of us have voted against using the old color scheme and I personally don't mind the Black and Orange (just don't like it nearly as much as I like the maroon), we'll have a new design and the UoH will be able to move forward. --forgottenlord 23:25, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Support
--forgottenlord 23:25, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Indeed.--General  Running  Riot  R  y  a  n  10:34, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

-- General  Tony  Talk 10/30/2007

Oppose
- C.l.a.s.s.i.c. c.o.l.o.r. s.c.h.e.m.e! =] Cheers, RelentlessRecusant  'o the Halopedia Team http://images.wikia.com/rainbowsix/images/7/73/GDI2.jpg <font color="#A9A9A9">TALK • <font color="A9A9A9">MESSAGE 05:13, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

With numbers
--forgottenlord 23:59, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

It allows people to know your rank and grade at a glance. Until next time, respect them Grunts. This is M  ø  u  s  e, squeaking out! 15:39, 27 October 2007 (UTC) Only Generals may vote!--<font color="DarkOrange">General  <font color="DarkOrange">Running  <font color="DarkOrange">Riot  R  y  a  n  16:56, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Without numbers
--<font color="DarkOrange">Running  <font color="DarkOrange">Riot  R  y  a  n  23:01, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

-- General  Tony  Talk 10/23/2007

-- General simon rj  h  20:35, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Comments
I think we should just use Simons Userboxes he made, we just might need 2-4 more depending if the 2 ranks i want to add get added and if we use their 2nd grade.--<font color="DarkOrange">General  <font color="DarkOrange">Running  <font color="DarkOrange">Riot  R  y  a  n  10:04, 24 October 2007 (UTC)


 * ...They're Halo 3 multiplayer rank userboxes. We should leave them for that purpose.  It won't take long to generate our own userboxes - put a common template in where we can do all the designing we want and then stick the image and ranks on separately. --forgottenlord 16:04, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

No one was using them and this way we don't have to make a lot more userboxes, we can just modify these ones.--<font color="DarkOrange">General  <font color="DarkOrange">Running  <font color="DarkOrange">Riot  R  y  a  n  18:34, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Ryan's amendment to the Rank Proposal (Defeated)
We should add two more ranks; Recruit and Apprentice. Right now we make people sign up for the UoH and wait to be put in a company without a rank so we can keep tract of them, well if we have Recruit as a rank they wont seem so "left out" and the can become whatever rank the have earned during their time as a Recruit(which would probably be just a Pvt and if not they'd still become a Pvt.). Now Apprentice can be used for all those Pvts who have not done anything for months except sign up for the UoH.--<font color="DarkOrange">General  <font color="DarkOrange">Running  <font color="DarkOrange">Riot  R  y  a  n  20:00, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Support
Nothing to drastic, just a little "clean up" if you will, it wont mess with the rank system.--<font color="DarkOrange">General  <font color="DarkOrange">Running  <font color="DarkOrange">Riot  R  y  a  n  20:00, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Oppose
I hate the idea of sitting inactive members in apprentice rank. I might be convinced on a revised suggestion that makes it part of the common rank structure and irrelevant to inactivity, but you'd need to make a strong case. I'm neutral on the Recruit rank. They aren't, technically, without rank while they're waiting for a company, they're just unassigned privates. Adding the extra level introduces some complexity into the rank structure for the newbies as they're trying to figure out the bureaucracy on top of everything else about Halopedia. I'm not sure if that's beneficial. --forgottenlord 20:23, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Too complicated. I like the current system, where recruits aren't assigned a rank until they are assigned a company. General simon rj  h  20:35, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Private is a good starting rank. General  Tony  Talk 10/24/2007

I had already considered adding "Recruit" and "Apprentice" before I drew up my proposal, but discarded it: 'recruit' is a denigrating term that could discourage further UNSCoH involvement. Regards, RelentlessRecusant  'o the Halopedia Team http://images.wikia.com/rainbowsix/images/7/73/GDI2.jpg <font color="#A9A9A9">TALK • <font color="A9A9A9">MESSAGE 06:30, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

FL's proposed modification to the Rank structure (Defeated)
I made a comment on this in my initial evaluation, but with CT and Chiafiend now chiming in with his agreement with my concern, I feel it should be voted upon separately.

My proposal is to solidify General into a single Grade. Having different Grades of General will give the external impression of seniority on the Security Council, something that was recently voted to be disposed of in the Term 5 elections. While there is merit in claiming that it will help promote activity in the Generals ranks, with our Generals ranging in mainspace edits from as little as 130 to as high as 4500, I believe this does not actually promote activity. Generalship has not, historically, been associated with edit counts and having such insurmountable numbers as requirements for extra Grades promotes only envy amongst those with lower Grades and, as previously stated, a external appearance of seniority. Seniority on the wiki should have no impact to the ranks of the Security Council. As such, I call on General Grade 2 and 3 to be dropped. --forgottenlord 01:56, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Support
As stated above--forgottenlord 01:56, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

As per Forgottenlord's statement and my views as well. General  Tony  Talk 10/27/2007

Opposition
- As per my proposal and my mutterings to Forgottenlord awhile ago. Regards, RelentlessRecusant  'o the Halopedia Team http://images.wikia.com/rainbowsix/images/7/73/GDI2.jpg <font color="#A9A9A9">TALK • <font color="A9A9A9">MESSAGE 15:44, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

I concur.--<font color="DarkOrange">General  <font color="DarkOrange">Running  <font color="DarkOrange">Riot  R  y  a  n  16:56, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

I want to see some kind of recognition if I do reach the amount of edits needed to become a grade 2. General simon  r  j h 10:06, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Comments
I'm not really bothered either way. I'd be the lowest grade General, but wouldn't mind so much. Persuade me to vote one way or another. General simon rj  h  17:00, 27 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Let's take Relentless's argument for multi-staged General rank:


 * 1) "However, regarding a multi-staged General rank, I think it'd be an interesting twist to delineate the more 'senior' dudes." - Why should more senior dudes be given extra status? Furthermore, it means we're now saying that you're worth a higher General rank based upon how many edits you have which, for an elected position, is ridiculous.  If I recall correctly, Ryan is the longest consecutively serving active General in his third term, but aside from Relentless who will be Grade 3, and considering that CommanderTony is closer to being Grade 2 than Ryan is, and considering that Relentless and Ryan are only days apart in joining, it's clearly not about seniority but about who's got the highest edit total.  It's got nothing to do with leadership, it's just a way of differentiating people on edit count.  Considering it's an elected rank - and let's not forget that the person who got the most votes was Sgt.johnson - to have someone get a higher rank based upon edits for an elected position seems odd.  I would've thought someone who's been elected by the same individuals should have a higher rank based upon votes.
 * 2) Furthermore, it does imply a hierarchy - something that Relentless did not shy away from - in fact, he specifically implied that by saying we're giving it to more "senior" members. As I said before, that runs counter to what was decided by the membership.
 * 3) Also, it implies that the Generals should have the highest edit count in the UoH - historically, this has not been the case. --forgottenlord 18:49, 27 October 2007 (UTC)