Forum:Hunters: are They Immortal?

I have been thinking about Hunters lately, and I stumbled upon this strain of thought: Immortality.

You see, how I got to that point was from thinking about their movement. In order for smooth movements to occur, as well as split second decisions that are required on a battlefield, the Mgalekgolo has to have a single mind. That would mean that the individual Lekgolo Worms have to sync each of their minds to create a single conscients.

From here, I started thinking about their reproduction. If the Lekgolo Worms' reproduction rate matches their death rate, the Hunter, as a whole, doesn't die. This would also allow for the mind to not deteriorate over the ages, seeing how each new worm would "refresh" the Hunter's mind.

If the above two statements are correct, that would mean that neither the body nor the mind would deteriorate; effectively creating immortality.

What do you guys say about this? Missing Mandible 13:06, 1 October 2011 (EDT)
 * See | this.--光环的家伙 (H1234-NET) 13:10, 1 October 2011 (EDT)
 * This thread is more about discussion than an actual question.Missing Mandible 23:36, 1 October 2011 (EDT)

Infinite cell reproduction doesn't necessarily mean immortality. Our bodies' cells reproduce indefinitely yet we still die. The recreation process deteriorates, causing aging. In the case of Hunters, though, their reproduction rate eventually overmatches their death rate and it is forced to divide into two individuals. Tuckerscreator (stalk ) 00:12, 2 October 2011 (EDT)


 * A single "Hunter" is an individual and unique consciousness formed by the collective. You've heard the phrase "more than the sum of its parts?" If you remove or replace even a small number of the worms in the colony, is it still the same individual? Change a person's memory, personality, emotions and desires - are they still the same person? --  Specops306   Autocrat     Qur'a 'Morhek   16:42, 3 October 2011 (EDT)


 * But there is only one mind. All of the memories and personalities are pooled into a single entity. I don't really think that if a few worms are lost, the overall character of the Mglekgolo is changed, or any of the memories are lost.
 * If a Hunter has its personality changed or loses memories due to Lekgolo death, wouldn't that make it a poor soldier? It would be far too unstable to enter war. They wouldn't have been able to reach Tier 6, let alone Tier 3 (Pre-Covenant). Missing Mandible 17:10, 3 October 2011 (EDT)


 * I'm not talking about transmission of information or ability, I'm talking about unique individualism. Are you familiar with Doctor Who? Every time the Doctor "dies", he "regenerates" into a new form - a new face, a new personality, a new vitality and energy that is neither superior nor inferior (well, most of the time) to their predecessors. Is the Tenth Doctor the same person as the Eleventh Doctor? Eleven has all his memories swimming about his head, and has subjectively experienced them, but he is such a radically different character to his predecessor that Ten might as well have died and transferred his memories to a new man, a new Doctor. That's what I mean - that a Lekgolo "colony" would retain the memories that it experiences, as well as memories from any worms introduced into the collective to replenish its population, but that the differences in personality that would result from this would make the result a new personality entirely, no matter how trivially.
 * I suppose what I mean to ask is what the immortality is for - the (presumably) flesh-and-blood outer shell, or the internal personality? Is there a difference between the two? Do Lekgolo has a concept of an individual personality? We know they have unique experiences and memories, that each colony is "unique" and differ substantially from each other, that they feel emotions such as joy and rage. But do they possess a conception of themselves as an utterly unique individual? A species based on hegemonised collectivisation on a personal scale might find such an idea strange and alien, and others, like us, might find the process of their reproduction, the splitting of one colony into two new ones, akin to the "death" of the original. --  Specops306   Autocrat     Qur'a 'Morhek   01:41, 8 October 2011 (EDT)

If so, why are they getting killed by marines, spartans, and the flood?
 * Facepalm
 * Obviously, I was refering to the aging process. Missing Mandible 22:02, 19 October 2011 (EDT)

Well, they aren't truly immortal in the sense that it isn't the same thing that is subject to experience. It's more like a society in which the members pass down the reins to successive generations. But the entity itself would be immortal and wouldn't die of natural causes provided that they don't have problematic cells like Earth-based life does and they have a 100% metabolism rate (otherwise they'd need a source of food, and God knows how that would work). Cool fool 18:44, 22 October 2011 (EDT)

What I think you are talking about is biological immortality. A being, which does not age, and which cells do not die, (or are replaced continously at the same rate as cell decay like the Hunters), if they live in acontrolled enviroment, they cannot die from old age. If they live in a controlled enviroment with food, water, shelter, free from pathogens (and Master Chief) they could theoretically live forever. Yours biologically, SubZero343 11:45, 25 October 2011 (EDT)

Similar to the Sorites paradox when you have a whole made of parts, and one-by-one the parts are removed, when does the whole cease to be a whole and begin to be a group of parts? (That may have been terribly explained, Wikipedia explains it better) Think of each individual Mglekgolo as an entire Flood infestation at the Coordinated Stage, as it may be easier to comprehend. The entire Mglekgolo, or the collective intelligence of all the Lekgolo, as the Gravemind. It knows everything each Lekgolo (i.e. each Infection, Combat, Pure and Carrier form) knows, as well as its own knowledge. The same goes visa versa, the Lekgolo know everything the Mglekgolo it belongs to knows as long as the Mglekgolo permits that particular Lekgolo access to that knowledge. The Mglekgolo control the movements of its Lekgolo as long as those Lekgolo belong to that particular hive, much like the Gravemind can only control the Flood of the galaxy it belongs too. Keep in mind this is not a proven explanation, but just a conjecture. Hope it helped, Ιι   Ηη   Ππ  20:13, 28 October 2011 (EDT)


 * I think it's more like the Ship of Theseus - replace every plank of wood, one by one, until the entire ship is made of new wood. At what point did it stop being the old ship, and start being the new ship? Did it stop being the old ship at all? --  Specops306   Autocrat     Qur'a 'Morhek   23:00, 31 October 2011 (EDT)


 * Ah. I forgot about that... It is, but I stand by my analogy between the Mglekgolo and the Flood. Ιι   Ηη   Ππ  15:19, 1 November 2011 (EDT)